Network Acoustics Eno Streaming System vs SGC Optical Isolation System

@amtprod 

Is it better to have both the cable modem and the wifi router as close to your equipment as possible, or should the two be separated some distance?

There is not a consensus regarding this. Some very knowledgeable audio streamers advocate close proximity to the audio system and others advocate remote separation.Both sides report excellent sonic outcomes. Once again, implementation is key.

Charles

@jerryg123

The GigaFOILv4–INLINE is the newest generation of the FOIL™ brand of Ethernet filters. Based on patented Fiber Optic Isolation Link (“FOIL”) technology, the GigaFOILv4–INLINE utilizes fiber optics and specially designed circuitry to prevent 99.99999999% of electromagnetic interference (“EMI”) from passing through the filter. The filter covers a frequency range of below 14kHz to beyond 18GHz and does not require a passband, meaning the only signal passing through the filter is the clean digital Ethernet signal.

FOIL = Fiber Optic Isolation Link

Obviously the same number of LAN/ethernet cables so possibility of rfi entry through connectors exactly the same. The differences are more signal loss with long runs of ethernet vs coax, also best quality LAN/ethernet cable becomes affordable with close to system placement. Now if one doesn't believe ethernet cables sound different that doesn't matter. I and many others hear differences in ethernet cables so it matters to us.

Now I can see  a possible competitor to close modem/router setup in going to optical conversion close to modem/router, long optical better than long ethernet. This issue then becomes all the peripherals, therefore, lps, power cables, power conditioning used with modem/router. I've found quality of AC/DC cables, LPS, and power conditioning to affect sound quality. With close to audio system setup I can use my already installed dedicated power lines, power conditioner, also running network components on separate AC lines may promote noise from ground loops, generally we want all components  in audio system to be on same circuit, less noise with grounding potential differences. I've tried modems/routers and/or LPS on different AC lines, diminished sound quality, although this could have been attributed to other variables.

Nope close modem/router is best and not that costly to implement. Two options here, DIY or technician runs long coax to listening room or have ISP  entry to listening room. In either case wifi can be run from second router connected to unmanaged or managed router, that router can be placed in best location for whole house wifi, this means no wifi/rfi noise on audio system network. So add up advantages, shorter higher quality LAN cables, less signal loss LAN vs Coax, ability to use same AC circuit for network, no chance for AC ground loops, finally best quality power conditioning via audio system PC.

@sns

With close to audio system setup I can use my already installed dedicated power lines, power conditioner, also running network components on separate AC lines may promote noise from ground loops, generally we want all components in audio system to be on same circuit, less noise with grounding potential differences. I’ve tried modems/routers and/or LPS on different AC lines, diminished sound quality, although this could have been attributed to other variables.

This approach is eminently logical.

Charles

Thank you @charles1dad for the response, and other replies.  Learning a lot about the 'in house' side of getting things best established for streaming.

I typically use wifi to stream from computer to Black Ice FX DAC, or to a Chromecast Ultra HD puck to stream audio and video to TV; and then thru Toslink into the DAC. I am wondering if I should be moving the cable modem closer to the audio system, (it's like 3-4' away) and then using the Ethernet out to the Chromecast Ultra which has an Ethernet in thru their power adapter (odd, I know).  I 'feel' like I am getting some very high end glare or high frequency sort of whistle regardless of streaming method or DAC, leading me to wonder if it's from the wifi/modem/cable integration to begin with?  

Very helpful info about the ground loop potential with distant set ups.  That made a ton of sense.

@mitch2 got it sorry..

Here is my finalized network setup. It uses a generic switch and generic FO converters. I found the final tuning came down to cabling, nothing outrageous, just good old trusty Pangea! Results : blackest background, spacious soundstage, boat-loads of air, transparency to source, and completely fatigue free listening. Nine little boxes, but who is counting because it works!

01-23-2023 at 02:23pm

Splitting Hairs

I will get this figured out someday. Right now, simple seems to sound best; starting with modem and router (both powered by HD Plex LPS), then 45 feet of CAT 8 to Bonn switch (powered by LPS) then Network Acoustics muon LAN cable from switch to muon filter, then captive muon LAN cable from muon filter to Mojo server, then muon USB cable from server to Mojo DAC. This sounds better than any other front end configuration so far, even without the optical isolation.

“simple seems to sound best”

@mitch2  👍

simple seems to sound best”

@mitch2  👍

+2 😊

Charles

I agree simple MAY be best, all depends on implementation. If one doesn't have good filtering, clocks, PS on essential network components, these will have to be supplied via add ons.

Here is example of simple and optimized network. Modem with internal lps> router with attention paid to noise suppression and OXCO clock> streamer with built in NET filter and optimal rendering via any optimized port>dac. Optimal streamer network via three boxes! Expect long time or never for this fantasy modem, still waiting for this router, already have the net filters within streamers solved.

I know this thread is old, but it's still relevant.  My system consists of Vandersteen Quatro CT speakers on granite plinths, Matching Vandersteen M5 amps, Brinkmann Nyquist MK2 DAC with streamer, The Music Player server/streamer (nearly all high res music and DSD) into the DAC, Audioquest Niagara 3000 conditioner, 2 dedicated, individually grounded power circuits with the amps and Niagara plugged directly into the AQ Niagara outlets.  Power cord from outlet to Niagara is the AQ Dragon and the other units all have the AQ high power Hurricane cords. The balanced interconnect is the AQ Fire (upgrading to the new ones once I sell my Fire and Horizon interconnects). Speaker cable is 3' run of AQ William Tell Silver.  I go router directly out via WireWorld Platinum ethernet into a medical filter for EMI/RF into the Laufer Memory Player using another run of WireWorld Platinum. 

I've had many optical isolation units in the system over the years.  Some were the 'upgraded' audiophile switches etc... and some were the all in one boxes that friends have brought over. I run the router and modem off a dedicated LPS, but honestly I don't hear a difference from that at all.  

I just placed an order for the Gigafoil V4 based on a few friends with reference Vandersteen systems as they love how it's lowered the noise floor etc...  It's a really nice upgrade for around 1k when you add shipping, an LPS (a must from what I've heard at a buddy's house) and power cord for LPS if you go that route.  I then remembered that Waversa makes an under 1k passive unit that uses a magnet and some other tech that does even more than just lower the noise floor. I have no idea how it will sound as it's not here yet.  I spoke with John at Waversa and it's already in the mail.  I'll be sharing my thoughts once I get it in and really broken in.  I'll keep reading threads on the net about filters etc..., but no matter which way you go, it seems like the EMI/RF nasty's really degrade digital sound.  

I can say that a few of the one box optical devices has added timing errors (jitter) and that's also a concern.  The biggest question about this whole thing is why am I so neurotic about my digital?  lol....I need the best digital possibly as I can no longer play my albums as my MS makes it too difficult to constantly get up, clean and play albums.  I have an awesome system and need it to have awesome digital which I feel I already do. Basic tweak time. 

@ctsooner : Did you get the Waversa unit in yet? I value your assessment of it compared to the Gigafoil V4. Good listening. Jeff

I wish I was home where I could give a breakdown. I have used the EXT 1 and also the ref unit. Both are amazing and better than any of the optical devices or the medical filters I’ve used. They just make the music more correct. I think the ref one may lower jitter too as it take my digital as close to analog as I’ve heard it in my room. There is a significant jump when going to the ref unit. If one can afford going that route, you should.  If you can only afford the entry level unit, don’t hesitate. A buddy brought over his innuos device and the ref unit was preferred as it gives a much darker background and with the Vandy Quatro’s, the micro and macro detail was better than I’ve heard even when I was auditioning more expensive DACs. It doesn’t change the sound of the dac as all so if you live the signature, this just gives you more. Not sure how to describe it as I’ve never heard any digital device do what this does and that includes external clocks.  

Thanks for the prompt reply. Unfortuneately, the reference model unaffordable forme. What was the Innuos device of your friend's that you guys compared it to? Jeff