Need recomendation for an IC to fill out and enrich the sound between amp and pre-amp.
Don't what level to start looking for a quality IC compatible IC with a Conrad Johnson PV-14L pre-amp and a BAT amp to fill out the sound. I opted for an all RCA pre-amp because I got a good deal on the CJ, and did not want to wait for a mixed BAT XLR and RCA pre-amp, or that of another brand. I did a lot of looking over 4 months
So the advantage of lower noise using the XLR to XLR interconnect is no longer in play, and I am still using a Signal Audio Cable XLR to RCA to connect the amp to the pre-amp. It cost about $59, not that price matters. It sounds good with the components, BUT, I think I can buy a much better RCA to RCA IC that will deliver a much fuller and richer sound. As good as Signal Cable IC is, it seems to lack a fullness in the lower to middle midrange, and also the soundstage could be wider and deeper.
I realize it could be the CJ pre-amp or the mix of CJ which is 10 years old but was upgraded to the SE version Despite what I said, it sounds very good.
Therefore, I would like recommendations for an interconnect that may accomplish what I described above before getting on "The Cable Company loaner library IC merry go round. A $200-$300 "USED" price range is my budget. Thank you, SJ
Whether XLR reduces noise or not has to do with how noisy things were in the first place. At short runs they will be identical in performance. Of course, some gear is balanced in such a way that XLR inputs make a difference in circuit behavior. Try mid-range WireWorld. They have that balance. Slightly dark, with enhanced imaging. Bet, Erik |
I find IC's that reveal more extension, dynamics and detail are the better value in the long run. There is always a price to pay with budget IC's. They either warm up the sound or increase the soundstage, rarely both if ever. Have you rolled the tubes? They can have a couple orders of magnitude more effect on the character of the sound than IC's do. |
Jim, as you realize but others commenting here may not, your BAT VK-200 does not provide RCA inputs. So the RCA-to-RCA cable you are asking about would have to be used with an adapter (or an unbalanced to balanced converter such as a Jensen Transformer), and the cable would be providing the signal to a balanced input. For those reasons I would not necessarily expect the experiences others are basing their suggestions on to be applicable to your system. And personally I would consider using a Jensen Transformer in conjunction with RCA cables on its input side and short XLR cables on its output side to be the "right" way to implement this interconnection. Including cabling, that could be accomplished for close to your stated budget. Also, seconding the comment by Wlutke just above you might want to take a look at what kind of 6C4 tubes are installed in your preamp. Trying different tubes would seem likely to be a more efficacious way of accomplishing the sonic changes you are looking for, especially given that 6C4’s appear to be relatively inexpensive. I found this statement in a 2003 thread at another forum: 6C4 tubes are available from Watford Valves of England as the Mullard CV4058 (military number) which is also known as a KQDD/K or M8080. These tubes are the best 6C4 variant that money can buy, and Conrad-Johnson uses them in their new PV-14L audiophile preamp. They told me they have never found a better 6C4 tube. They were made for Britsh military mobile radios and can really take a thrashing, as well as a minimum 10,000 hour useful life.Finally, I see that the PV-14L is phase inverting, so if you already haven’t you may want to try interchanging the + and - connections to the speakers. That is likeliest to make a difference on recordings that were engineered with "purist" techniques, meaning a minimal number of microphones and minimal post-processing. Good luck. Regards, -- Al |
+1 for the Belden 8402 and 8412 IC's...made them myself and can't believe the improvement in sound quality. http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/?p=7325 |
Take a look at the Transparent Cable music link and the plus IC. They will not manipulate the sound in your system but improve imaging,sound stage and will reveal micro details in the music you are listening to. They also have a trade in program if you ever want to upgrade things down the road. The cables are all made by hand and quality is top notch. |
Thanks to all who have responded so far. I may have ask this same question a few months ago To Almarg, I think I need to put my glasses on, because as you noted before, the BAT VK-200 only has XLR inputs. They DO have RCA outputs but that is not going to help my case. I did see in the AG "Cable Category" that JW Cables who uses a cryo-treatment on both his speaker wire and interconnects offers an XLR to RCA cable. along with standard RCA to RCA and XLR to XLR. I am sure other brands that other members have recommended, like Wireworld or Transparent may offer similar mixed connector IC's I know about the reverse polarity requirement of the CJ PL14L; I owned a CJ PV-8 pre-amp back in 1988, and had to reverse the speaker leads. Therefore, the speakers are in correct phase. As far as rolling the tubes, the member who sold me the PV-14L SE claimed that when he had the CJ do the "SE" upgrade, they retubed the unit with M8080 tubes. . He claimed they have about 1000 hours on them, but were rated for 5000 to 10,000 hours. I have to recheck with him about the tubes. Lastly, I need to look at your 2nd paragraph more closely about using the Jensen Transformer which I want to avoid, not because of the cost, but I don't want to add another freakin box to the system. Also, I am not sure I completely understand the RCA and XLR IC arrangement you explained above. Nevertheless, I will keep you and others posted.. Happy Holidays to all......SJ
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Also, I am not sure I completely understand the RCA and XLR IC arrangement you explained above.Hi Jim, "Its" in that paragraph refers to the Jensen transformer. Saying it a little differently, RCA cables from preamp to transformer, and short XLR cables from transformer to amp. Model PI-2RX would be suitable. You can find it here for $20 less than if you were to order it directly from Jensen. Note that in the drop-down box near the bottom of the page the input connector choice should be changed from the default selection of XLR (which corresponds to model PI-2XX) to RCA (which corresponds to PI-2RX). Regards, -- Al |
Almarg. Thank you again for the information about the Jensen Transformer I have 3 ways to go; 1) BAT no lower has adapters, and suggested Cardas adapters. Victor K. at BAT did say I was better off with "what I have now" that is, the Signal Cable that is RCA (out) to XLR input. Therefore, I think he endorses the concept of a mixed connector IC, then using adapters 2) JW Audio Cable emailed me back regarding its ad on AG which show a Reference series IC for $329, or the Signature series IC for $149. Both are 1M and can be configured the same as the Signal Cable I currently use. 3) Jensen Transformer with their cables which are Canares Star Quad. The question comes down to which solution will deliver the best sound and provide the most compatible connection. The adapters are only a last consideration and are not inexpensive. Parts Connexsion sells the Cardas adapters for about 82.00 a set and I will need two sets. (I think) plus $6.00 shipping Obviously, the Jenson transformer with appropriate cables will cost $300-$350 So it is a toss -up between the JW Audio Reference cable , or the Jensen device Let me know if you have any other thoughts on the 2 solutions, should you have the time. I am not in a hurry and it is not crucial. . SJ
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3) Jensen Transformer with their cables which are Canares Star Quad.Hi Jim, First, to be sure it’s clear you can use any cable brand with the Jensen transformer. And you needn’t use the same brand for the RCA cables and the XLR cables, for that matter. The particular seller of Jensen transformers I suggested just happens to also sell many Canare cables. I would strongly suspect that the Jensen transformer option will make the most difference, among the options you listed. And I would expect it to be more likely than not that the difference will be in the right direction, from a subjective standpoint. It is also conceivable, though, that the difference may be in the wrong direction, subjectively. But if that were to occur I would interpret it to mean that the root cause of the problem is elsewhere in the system. As I said earlier, a Jensen transformer, which would provide the BAT amp with a true balanced pair of signals, is IMO the right way to implement this kind of interface, at least within anything close to the price range you are considering. Good luck. Regards, -- Al |
Happy Holidays Sunnyjim, Invest in cables made by Thales. It is undoubtedly the last pair of cables you will ever buy. I agree with those who are suggesting an outside transformer, rather than a XLR to RCA configuration. I am not just saying this because I happen to have two pairs for sale. Once I heard these for myself, I changed out all of my Transparent and Stage 3 IC Cables, which were 3-4X more expensive. I now use them exclusively for IC and Speaker Cables. CJ is also very friendly for tube rolling - as others have pointed out. By far one of the best investments I have ever made. www.tonarm.ch |
I bought a pair of these Cardas XLR to RCA adapters to connect my XLR only Krell amp. The sound seems to be fantastic with my High Fidelity CT-1 interconnect. By using these adapters, you can use any cable you want, and you can easily swap out cables to evaluate them. http://www.dedicatedaudio.com/products/cardas-gold-premium-cga-male-xlr-adapters-xlr-male-to-rca-fem... |
The problem is that cables should not color the sound but simply transmit the electrons. You may be in need of components that are more satisfying to you. In my experience Cardas and Purist emphasized the lower end in my system...but all wire is system dependent. All wire sounds different in different systems. On another point....balanced cables used with properly balanced circuits do much more than provide lower noise. |
To mtot, Thank you for your comment about the Cardas Adapters. Interestingly Victor Khomenko at BAT informed me about the Cardas Adaptors, but more or less to stick with what I have, that is the Signal Cable mixed configuration Parts Connexion sells the Cardas adapters. I will check the link to dedicated audio to see how they price the Cardas adapters. To Stringreen, BAT power amp and CJ pre-amp are a very satisfying combo, and I spent months researching and looking for compatible separates. Maybe I should have waited for a used BAT pre-amp to come available on AG that was at my price range. God knows, I e-mailed Victor K at BAT enough about several BAT pre-amps that came available on AG and e-bay. However, the price for the CJ PV-14L SE was very good and in my overall budget fro separates. What I like you to clarify should you revisit this thread, is the last sentence of your reply......that..."balanced cables....do much more than just provide lower noise." I will appreciate if you can elaborate on that statement; It might reaffirm what Almarg said in his last comment on 12/22. about the Jensen Transformer as the best solution. Thanks To ggc, Regardless, of the sound of their IC's as you indicated, Thales prices are beyond the beyond of my budget. Thanks anyway. SJ |
To jafant, I did not dismiss your recommendation of the Audience cabling. I have been generously bombarded by cable options (some) which appear less expensive However, scroll back to Almarg's comments about the Jensen Transformer as possibly the best solution. Also, I noted in my response to Stringreen's last sentence of his comments which may add to Almarg's position or not. Neither eliminates Audience cable as an option, nor the cardas adapters. Usually, when their are many options as noted above, I have to step away to clear my head. I think this is a good strategy until after the New Year arrives. Thanks, SJ |
