Need highly transparent detailed amp---how does Pass XA25 compare to Gamut D100/D200 MKIII

Enjoy what you have .

@lcherepkai  If you like the sound of tubes, but really want solid state then my first recommendation is for a Pass Labs amp.

atmosphere-----thanks for all the insight.  Truly useful info here is a rare commodity.  And funny you should mention the H/K Citation II as I had a pair of a modern rethinking of that classic design in monoblock form, the VAS Citation II's.  These really are quite nice and, although of the same power rating, were able to drive to moderate levels a pair of BG Corp 520 loudspeakers that the SET JAS amplifier could barely rouse at all.  On speakers more suited to them though, the JAS was quite a bit more revealing of the subtle inner details that make music engaging to me.  With Shuguang Treasure 6CA7's, the VAS amps were luscious and quite detailed and always a pleasure to listen through but the JAS just had more insight.  I like tubes in my source (presently a Raysonic 228 and a Modwright Oppo BDP 83SE with the tubed outboard power supply) but otherwise would like to get back to a solid state amp for full time duty.  Thank you very much for the wisdom

@lcherepkai  45 watts is a lot of power for an SET! Its very difficult to get good bandwidth in an SET with that sort of power, but its pretty easy with a more conventional Push-pull amplifier, and the power tubes are often much less expensive! Our M-60 makes about 60 watts into 8  ohms, but the power tubes for both channels together are only $420.00 and we warrant them for a year. If you had a H/K Citation 2 (refurbished) they make 60 watts also, and the output tubes are only about $140.00 total. That amp is also wider bandwidth than almost any SET, and its certainly lower distortion.

My point here is there are a lot of tube amps out there that may well do the job that could make more power, less heat and less distortion, and very likely sound better at the same time with a lower output tube cost. One limitation nearly all SETs face is that if you really want to hear what they are about, they should be played on a speaker that does not require that they go over about 20% of full power. This is to prevent the higher ordered harmonics from showing up- those harmonics will cause the amp to sound 'dynamic' and they will also cause it to sound 'loud'. With most push-pull amps, the usable power is much greater- often well over 90%, so you get a lot more usable amplifier power for your investment.

gato?  I haven't heard that one.  I'll look into it.  Thank you

atmosphere---the 45w my JAS Array 2.1 puts out is about the minimum I could use and get the sound levels I want.  I've had 2 of these amps and love the liquid midrange and the palpable 3 dimensional images and everything else I've heard has sounded veiled in comparison.  A couple gainclones have had an acceptable sound so I think I can get (mostly) to where I want to go with solid state.  And as mentioned, I don't want to spend the bucks on more tubes.  It's close to $1000 to get the tubes I want/had for this amp.  And my experiences with class D are the early PS Audio and Wyred4Sound amps and neither moved me at all.  I hear that class D has come a long way but both amps I mentioned have many excellent reviews indicating they may be the sound I'm looking for.  Thanks.

Giving up on the SET amps. I don't want to replace another expensive tube and the heat from 805 tubes is a warm weather deal breaker. Considering the Pass XA25

@lcherepkai  That's a big leap. The heat of tube amplifiers comes mostly from the class of operation. In this regard a solid state amp will make about 90% of the same heat if operating in the same class. SETs are class A, and so are many of the Pass Labs amps. That's how they get the sound that they do. I am curious- there are tube amps out there that might be easier to live with than an 805-based SET, which would sound better and make more power (and may well make less heat, since SETs are inefficient in this regard). Why the big leap to solid state? If the heat is such a big deal, have you considered class D?

dorby

Unfortunately I have never listened to the Chord. But you can save yourself some money with the 680, as the 780 I have I purchased as a demo for same price as new 680. They sound very similar. 

I have had Gamut more than once integrated and D200i.
Sound is good but lack the transparency that my ears need. I tried several speakers to my ears they only sounds good with Gamut speakers.
I would suggest Gato audio with you want Danish mofets output design signature.
Excellent look and sounding.
Regards 

Having heard both extensively & i'm also a gamut owner in one my setups. So it goes without saying that my vote is for a gamut esp since you have suggested with what you want.
All the best.
Cheers

kairosman ---funny you should mention the Kinki integrated.  I looked into it (and still consider it for a secondary system).  I don't like active preamps though (nor passive I guess---source direct only for me).   I've been considering trading in toward the one listed on TMR.  And I think you're right about no one here having compared the two directly.  Sounds like the Gamuts might be more what I'm looking for though the Pass reviews are all so glowing.  


And at $15000, the Simaudio is about 80% more than I can afford.  I won't even look up the reviews so as not to torture myself.  


Thanks to all who contributed

OP, seems no one here owns either the Gamut D100 or D200 MKIII, so take with a large dose of salt any opinions about it one way or the other.

I auditioned the XA25 extensively in my home before buying my CODA No. 8 - decided the XA25 runs too hot when pushed, and also I wanted more current.

The XA25 is warm, smooth and detailed, but I would not say transparent - and also I hesitate to employ that term because I am not sure my definition of that term is consistent with yours.

A memorable amp I heard during my auditions was the new Kinki Studios EX-M7, which was as close to the famous Goldmund "Swiss" sound as I'd heard for under 15K. Hyper fast, detailed/resolving and powerful - and LESS than 3K new delivered to your door (the build quality is off the charts for something under 5K).

https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/kinki6/

Not my cup of tea, but it might be yours, FWIW.

cdamiller 5

or anyone- Do you know how the Simaudio 780 DAC compares to CHORD HUGO TT, or Chord Dave? I am working on DAC's next... Currently using Bluesound Node and a borrowed chord qutest. Good. Not GREAT!

I also have a complete Simaudio system and it is really really nice. I recommend them as well. 740 preamp, 860 amp, 780 streamer/DAC

I just picked up a used DEMO set of Simaudio MOON 740P (Pre Amp)860A (Amp)- for about $15k. I was afraid of heat from the PASS, and couldn't afford the Luxman 900. The Simaudio makes my KEF REFERENCE 5's sing. Great clear soundstage.

I have been running the pair non-stop for 48 hours (burning in new cables). The pre-amp is COOL and the amp is warm, but certainly not HOT. They are built like tanks and come with a 10yr warranty.

I was told (by a dealer) that the Simaudio gear is better with KEF than GamuT, but there is a listing for a GamuT amp/pre-amp on Audiogon now, from Audio Vision in SF. Steal of a deal if GamuT works for you.

Pass XA25: exceptional amp, but like reggae, they are Hot Hot Hot. Good choice for Canadians and Alaskans.

Simaudio 760

I have a pass labs xa25. I cannot compare it to the amp you are considering. I have not heard it.  Though the xa25 does not get too hot at all. 
It shines in midrange, it’s warm, very quiet, and forgiving with poorly mastered cds. I can only advise regarding the xa25 that you do not utilize  oversized spades on the amp side. They only partially fit. Also a speaker cable of silver and copper 50/50 reveals more detail. All copper and it might sound a bit flat. I’m running them with special 40s in a very small living room. Works well for me. 
Best luck!

tweak1   what is a Voyager GaN amp?  Years ago I swallowed the cool aid to quickly and traded in a JAS Array 2.1 SET for a new Wyred4Sound ST-500 there at Underwood.  I read the review of how great Class D was and it was a huge disappointment.  The extra power was nice (and bass) but everything else was a BIG step down in sonics.  Not saying the Voyager will but, just reflecting. 


And don't have Tektons yet.  My main speakers are DIY/customs of a similar design to Legacy Focus but using Eton drivers.  It's also quite sensitive but requires bi-amping. 


I've been looking for Valvet on the used market on Hifishark but they seldom come up so... will continue to consider although there are a couple Gamuts available presently so might jump on one before it's too late.  Thanks all for the input!

Underwood HiFi is supposed to be releasing their Voyager GaN amp around now. They might still be offering a trade policy. I would definitely pursue it

benchmark
spectral
krell
levinson/madrigal/proceed
aragon

get your cotton balls ready

I've owned the Xa-25 for 3 years now and love it still. 
Super quick, quiet, micro detail (class A to 50 W) and as dynamic as all get-out.  Cable swaps are easily heard - nothing in the way.  Plenty of power with 90 dB, 6 Ohm speakers.  I'll bet Tektons would blow the roof off!

I’d think the Gamut would be a little more detailed and neutral of the two, and the Pass will probably throw as much heat as a SET amp. A couple other off-the-radar possibilities might be a Valvet E2se or a D-Sonic M3a-800S, both very different but excellent amps if you read the reviews.  I think D-Sonic offers a three-week trial period and costs less than $1500 new so what the heck?  Ok, you can commence laughing now.  Anyway, best of luck in your quest. 

lcherepkai OP

"If" the internal layout and neatness are anything to go by, give me the Pass XA25 every time.

Pass XA25
https://6moons.com/audioreviews2/passlabs3/open_big.jpg

Gamut D200 MkIII (sorry but it looks like a hobbyist assembled this)
https://img.usaudiomart.com/uploads/large/1012591-gamut-d200-mk3-stereo-amplifier.jpg

Cheers George

tecktons would benefit fro a more transparent amp might want y o hear a pure fi amp critics are saying these amps area h iant break throgamut way lomore transparent then pass

Pass amps tend toward the warmer, rounder end of the spectrum so may not suit if you're a fast-transient, detail fan.

That's certainly an option and in the same used price range.  I just hate paying practically list price for a used item.  With these and the Tektons, it makes more sense to buy new.  Thanks for the recommendation.  I'll certainly keep it in mind.

What about Benchmark AHB2.  Practically nothing measures close to it and the only complain is that it is too revealing (transparent, analytical etc). I have one and it is wonderful.