I would second the recommendation for the Frankensteins. They are among the best sounding amps I've ever owned, and I had quite a few. Beware of customer service though. I had a horror story. One day as I turned one channel on I heard a loud noise. I immediately turned it off, called Israel Blume, explained the "symptoms" and got the diagnosis: you burned the power transformer. I can send you a new one for $550 in three weeks. It took three months, but that was not the issue. After three months I turned the amplifier on again and miraculously it sounded well, no hum, no issues, no noise. The cause of the problem must have been something else--a bad cable perhaps? In any events, I asked Mr Blume if I could return the transformer--after all, he was the one who diagnosed it without hesitation. And after all, if he still manufactures Frankensteins, this part has some value for him. The answer: I am sorry but no. Pretty sad story for a company with this reputation and with such a high quality product.
Need amp suggestions for Hedlund Horns....
A few months ago, I heard a Cary 300b amp hooked up to some small monitors and was blown away... so the itch to upgrade started.
I just bought used a pair of Hedlund horns... came with it (free) was a diy homemade tube amp that does not sound adequate (based on what I heard these horns can do).
I’m in the market for a used amp that would be the ideal match for these Hedlunds. From what I read, I have several options such as 300b, 2A3, etc. but what would you recommend? I've never had a low-power SET amp before.
My room is 25’x 30’ with vaulted ceilings (large enough), wood floors, fairly open. I listen to everything from classic jazz, horns, classical, vocals, and the occasional rock. I would love to have some volume to feel the energy and texture of the song.
I just bought used a pair of Hedlund horns... came with it (free) was a diy homemade tube amp that does not sound adequate (based on what I heard these horns can do).
I’m in the market for a used amp that would be the ideal match for these Hedlunds. From what I read, I have several options such as 300b, 2A3, etc. but what would you recommend? I've never had a low-power SET amp before.
My room is 25’x 30’ with vaulted ceilings (large enough), wood floors, fairly open. I listen to everything from classic jazz, horns, classical, vocals, and the occasional rock. I would love to have some volume to feel the energy and texture of the song.
73 responses Add your response
Ramoneo14, I am a little late to the party here and I am not familiar with your speakers but I will echo some of the previous praise for the Triode Labs/Finale amplifiers. I am lucky enough to be local to Triode Labs/Finale. Frank the head honcho there, was kind enough to lend me several of his amplifiers to try with my speakers (DIY Cornscalas, sensitivity about 102db). I tried: http://www.finaleaudio.com/f108/ http://www.triodelab.com/el-84/ Both of these EL84 amps sounded very nice, I would not have been disappointed with either. I also tried them with my single driver Frugalhorns with great success. I ultimately went with Frank's 2A3iS and could not be happier! That is not to take away from either of the EL84 amps, for the money I cannot see much that could beat them. As with all of Frank's amps, they are DEAD quiet, have very high build quality, and can be tailored the the customer's speakers and needs. |
Are the speakers in your profile picture hedlund horns?? Hedlund horns are massive (close to 7 feet tall). Anyway, do you live in southern CA? I would love to match my amplifier with your speakers. I have a Woo Audio WA-5. It's a 300B SET with Takatsuki 300B tubes. It cost a lot, but I'm really impressed with the build quality and sound so far. I have my eyes on a set of Medallion IIs with Lowther drivers. You really have a nice set of speakers. |
Since your considering a passive pre-amp, you may find the following link on the Lightspeed Attenuator interesting and a preamp to consider. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/lightspeed-attenuator-best-preamp-ever |
@ramoneo14 awesome news congrats on the new amp! And what a great deal at that price I would've bought it and I love my amp! Let us know how it sounds when it gets there. I don't know a ton about passives but this looks like a pretty good unit. https://www.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-luminous-audio-axiom-2-passive-preamplifier-walker-mod... But of course see how your VTL works first, the most affordable gear is what you already own! Happy listening! |
Hi Ramoneo, Congratulations on acquiring the amplifier. I’ve read good comments on the Tubes Audio Labs products over the years. Based on Min’s reputation I assume that the transformers and parts are of good quality. If so you bought a quality SET for quite a good price 😊. Your intention to try a passive preamplifier makes sense and could be an ideal match, you won’t know unless you try. At some point you can compare it to your VTL and see which one is preferable. You’re definitely putting together a very nice system. Charles, |
@charles1dad + Yes I placed a bid for the Tube Audio Labs Western Electric Clone 2A3 Stereo Amplifier for $525 and it was accepted. Did some reading before and read all the happy owners of Min's builds. I now have some extra cash to put in a nice preamp. Was thinking of several options: Some type of passive preamp like a Tortuga LDR3.v2 /Lightspeed or if there is another recommendation in the sub $1k. I know system synergy is what I'm after. My speakers are AER MK1 loaded in a Hedlund horn at about 102db efficiency. My sources will be: VPI Scout II to a Sutherland Ph3D Phono Pre, a Marantz DV8400 multi player, and an Original DaVinci CD player. I'm not sure of specs for the coming Tube Audio Labs 2A3 amp. Any suggestions? |
Brad, I decided to finish a section of our basement and make it my music listening space. This allowed me to listen to music àt any time without disturbing other family members. Its been 18 years since we built our home and I'm still enjoying the listening room very much. If you do purchase the Coincident Frankenstein amplifier one day I believe that you'll be quite happy with their performance. I consider them the heart and soul of my system. They have a special organic breath of life quality. Charles, |
charles1dad If some time in the future I decide to assemble an SET system, the 300B mono's would be a primary consideration. BTW I did view your system photos, WOW. Besides all the superb components you have, your listening area is probably one of the better ones I have seen. I think it would be a valid hypothesis to conclude how accurate your components and room reproduce music. I am sure it's very enjoyable. |
Ramoneo, , Jond is correct, SET amplifiers don't have any special preamplifier requirements, just use one of good quality and you'll be fine. Brad, As you'd expect the Coincident siblings are a superb pairing. I've also heard my amplifier with the Atma-Sphere MP-1 and the VAC Signature MK II and they were excellent matches. Brad which coincident amplifier are you interested in? Charles, |
zuio I due subscribe to AS, I think they had a review on referenced pre-amp either last June or July. Due to some paint projects in the home, I have some magazines , including that issue packed away. When the opportunity presents itself, I will make it a point to see what the review has to say. Thanks for the info. charles1dad Thanks for the info, at this point in time, I think if I decide in the future to opt for a Coincident amp, it would only make sense to me to pair it with there pre-amp for the best senergy. |
Bradf, Thanks for your kind comments. Jond, Yes it is wiser to get the best you can afford the first time, it is definitely cheaper in the long run. I made that decision 7 years ago when I purchased my SET amplifier (Coincident Frankenstein MK II). There's been no second guessing, just pure musical joy. Charles, |
I have to agree with Charles better to spend more money now and get it right trust me its cheaper in the long run (speaking from experience). Transformer quality doesn't come cheap and makes a huge difference with SET amps, PP amps to for that matter. I can't imagine what my own amp would sound like without its huge overspec'd 60s vintage transformer. That Triode Lab Sig 2a3 for $1900 looks like the real deal, a well executed amp that uses high quality parts. |
Bradf, Here’s my take, the 2A3 integrated amplifier for1000 dollars is a good value choice from a reputable company. The Triode Lab Signature 2A3 SET for 1900 (4000 dollars retail) is a better long term choice, it has higher quality transformers, capacitors and power supply. This better amplifier would be exploited by the Hedlund speakers. I’d spend more for the higher quality SET. Charles, |
Audiogon Triode Labs 2A3 integrated listing http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/triodelab/1.html Reference to various 2A# tube pairs http://sophiaelectric.com/ 6 Moons review of Triode labs 2A3 integrated http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/triodelab/1.html |
The following is not a recommendation, but rather an integrated found while searching for an good quality 2A3 at approx. $1,000.00 I think Charles 1 dad, jond, gwalt, powder1, and the other members addressing this issue, are more exposed , educated, and familiar with the SET variety then I am, or ever hope to be. They would have much better advice then I would be able to provide you regarding this integrated. |
ramoneo14, Go back and check out the link that bradf provided for Finale Audio. They are the French flip side to Triode Lab (same people) and there are a few amps, in your new budget, that use high quality parts and exacting build standards. Even better, give them a call (don't feel obligated) and see what they recommend for your speakers. If I ever luck out and get a better and bigger place, and still have my Tonian Labs TL-D1s, they'd be the first place I'd look into. All the best, Nonoise |
@charles1dad , @gwalt , @powder1 : I am certainly open to the 45 tube variety- low power, reputable sound quality, availability, and if prices are low that is the ticket. @bradf : I now realize that $1K is a bit low to spend on a quality integrated so I am open to go $2K if the value is there. I have a VTL Dual Mono tube preamp (may not be a good match, not sure). I'd rather go integrated for matching and simplicity. @jond There is a Tube Audio Labs 300b amp on Audiogon right now for $1900. Is that a good unit? If so, how good and would you advise that option over the 45 version? Also there is another Tube Audio Labs 2A3 amp for a good price. Your opinions? |
@gwalt Min at Tube Audio Labs is building Korneff45 clones not sure who else is building them. http://www.tubeaudiolab.com/id254.html |
Hi, ramoneo14 Your original question stated that you wanted suggestions for a good amp. Is this the case, and if so what pre-amp do you have or plan to get, or are you looking for an integrated amp? Also did you come too realize that $1000.00 may not be able to obtain you the amp/preamp/integrated your seeking and you have since increased your budget to $2K. Knowing the above would help in making more accurate suggestions with regard to possible candidates. Another suggestion would be to research audio clubs/organizations in your area; there may be members willing to share or demonstrate there amps/integrated for you, there by taking some of the guess work out if for you. |
Charles: Thank you. I believe there is guy at Wu Audio that is building a Korneff Replica. All I know is he is from Asia and copied the design. I think he goes by Wu? I had some trouble with 300B tubes being microphonic with the long plates into a high efficiency designed speaker. The 45 tube has it all in musicality with great bass control for its output. If I were Ramoneo I would go that route as there is also some great NOS 45 tubes still out there. I still own 2 pair of RCA Globes and they are sweet as can be. I can find out the builder if Mr. Ramoneo wants to know as I had a friend who had one built. |
I heard both 2a3 and a 45 on my Edgarhorn speakers and of the two preferred the 45. The caveat to all of this is the design quality of the amp....power transformers/coupling caps/power supplies etc. I also owned a top quality 300B but the 45 was at least an equal match in musicality with the 16 OHM/107 DB load. You will notice little difference in power between 2a3/45 but I predict their are more 45 tubes out there to choose from the NOS tube days as they were used in tube radios of yesteryear. I owned the Yamamoto 45 and still own the Korneff 45 and prefer the Korneff for the sound you mention.......again same tube different design. Same ole story. My opinion is go with a used 45 if you can find one but quality of design matters a lot with either amp. |
Ramoneo,, I believe you are beginning to appreciate the fact that a variety of power output tubes are capable of providing a very good sound. As Bobheinatz reiterated both amplifiers he cited have high quality output transformers. Based on his comments the Hedlund is an exceptional speaker that will reveal the quality of an amplifier (which is a good thing). Are you still considering the Sean Casper F2a or the Dynamo MK II or are you determined to go with the DHT 2A3? You have interesting choices. 😊 Charles, |
Ramoneo, i have owned the exact driver and cabinet you just bought. There are times I wish I never sold them. Your driver is world class and will sound incredible with a quality 300b, 45 or 2a3 tube amp. There transformers will make or break the sound. I drove these speakers with a Air Tight 300b and a George Wright 2a3 amp. Both sounded breathtakingly beautiful. The Air Tight is above your budget but if you can find a used George Wright used jump on it. I would also highly recommend Decware. Their $1000 amp new will crush any Chinese amp near that price range. Check them out! |
Ramoneo14, You could very well get along fine with a 2A3 SET given the characteristics of your Hedlund speakers. I don’t know how you determined that you prefer the sound signature of the 2A3 without hearing examples of these amplifier. As you’ve discovered there are many choices available in the DHT SET genre. Somehow you need to find a way to hear a variety of SETs to get some idea of what differences exist among them. You heard the Cary 300b SET and were impressed with it, other brand 300b SETs will have different presentations. It can be somewhat challenging as there are multiple variables to account for. 2000 dollars can get you a good quality used 2A3 SET if you take your time, a similar quality 300b SET will likely cost you more money. I actually believe that the Sean Casper F2a amplifier could be a very good choice. You asked can the el 34 tubes sound glorious? A talented designer/builder can extract good sound from most any tube. The El 34 isn’t a 300b which I believe is ultimately the better sounding tube (obviously just my opinion). Concerning the Coincident Dynamo several owners have posted their impressions on this site and are quite happy with it. Charles, |
It's going to be hard to find a good 2a3 amp near $1K but here is a good looking used version for $1900 it's $4K new and the "little brother" of the Triode Labs amp in the 6moons review above: https://www.audiogon.com/listings/tube-triode-lab-2a3-signature-amp-2016-09-06-amplifiers-80816-flor... Regarding the EL34 tube to me it combines some of the richness of the 300B with a bit more linearity and frequency range but less bloom and perhaps a touch less transparency. As always implementation means as much or more than tube type. |
Spent some time (almost all night) reading and reading... and here are some of my findings please give me more insight. 1. The Dynamo uses EL34 tubes with power at 8w. As much as the price attracts me, it seems that my optimal power would be around 1-4w. I currently have a homemade EL84 pentode/triode amp and at triode mode 1.9w (I think) it puts out a great amount of sound (but not glorious sound). Will the EL34 tube give me the feeling of other tubes? 2. 2A3 tubes, single ended DHT circuit, NOT push/pull is my ideal sound/signature after hours of reading. The 45 tube would be second and 300b third but may have more 'power' than I need or want. 3. Price. Since 300b's seem to the most popular of the bunch they seem to fetch the highest price which is another reason to go with the 2A3 or others. A quick search on eB@y reveal makers like Dared, Douke, and others. The Chinese one seem that they cut corners (PCBs, etc) so leaning away from it. The Japan made ones (Hirata/Tango look promising so please let me know if this would be an ok amp. 4. Other selections. What can you find that's under $2K that is the best value? I'm all about value. Don't want cheap as usually you get what you pay for but sometimes there are hidden gems to be found, especially used. **I actually prefer used, I give each used piece a name- after the person that I purchased it from. That way the history/legacy lives on. I do this with other gear like guitars-I'm a musician. Any and every suggestion is welcome. I realize my ignorance in this topic and am very grateful to all your input. |
