You will discover for yourself mayor...or not. If you are happy, fantastico! If something sounds underwhelming, then you may need to try some cables. The Cable Co. in Pa let’s you try cables in your system FYI
Narrowed to 3: 802D3, Sopra 3, Reference 3
Hi all,
Here's the situation:
Room is 14x17 with vaulted ceilings from 9" to 14", and the room is mostly open to a foyer with high ceiling and is about 10x10.
I'm currently running a setup scavenged from my home theater:
Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ > Rotel RC-1590 Preamp > Rotel RB-1582 mk2 amp > B&W 805 D3
The sound overall is excellent, but it's a little bright and lacks bass presence (as you'd expect for a 2 way bookshelf). Here are my top speakers I've auditioned:
B&W 802D3 ( Auditioned with: Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ > McIntosh C52 > McIntosh 601) at Magnolia
KEF Reference 5 (Auditioned with Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ > McIntosh C47 > McIntosh MC452) at Magnolia at the same time as the 802.
Focal Sopra 3 (Auditioned with NAIM DAC > NAIM NAP 500 DR Amp - 140W per channel) at difference location
I also heard the KEF Reference 3 and Blade but ruled them out, the Ref 3 for sound, and the Blade for price and it being kind of ugly.
Here's the thing, I feel like I'm not sure what to get. I love the general sound of the 802, but I'm afraid even with the MC452 it'd be a bit bright. It also really lacked the presence in the bass like the Reference 5.
The Reference 5 sounds wonderful, and the bass is prolific, but I'm a little concerned about it being too warm. I heard the Ref 5 and 802s in the same room with virtually the same equipment, back to back, and they were so very different. The Ref 5 was warm, with rich full mids, that maybe were even too lush, with bass so good I honestly thought the subwoofer was on.
The 802 had good bass, but nothing to write home about (and it even had the more powerful 601 monoblocks), but the clarity was astounding, I just fear it'll be a little too bright for my room, which seems to lean bright already. That said, there is just something so exciting about the sound of this speaker playing orchestral. The problem was I much preferred the KEF for rock/r&b.
Then, to add to the mix, I liked the Focal Sopra 3 a lot, but I also felt it lacked bass presence, though it was on the weakest amp by a wide margin. The Focal seemed to be the middle ground between the B&W and KEF, but the bass concerned me. I'm not a bass nut, but I do want my bass to be powerful and don't want to have to add a sub. (Even for orchestral, I felt the Focal lacked a bit in the low cello and bass parts)
My plan was to keep the Mytek, and probably get a McIntosh C47 and MC452 or MC462, as I think the Rotels are probably too bright and underpowered for any of these setups. I was definitely hitting 300+W on the 802s during my audition while listening to orchestral music.
Thoughts? Is the KEF really that pudgy in the middle, is the B&W really that bright, and does the Sopra 3 really lack bass presence?
p.s. I thought the Blade was better balanced, but also still pretty warm.
Here's the situation:
Room is 14x17 with vaulted ceilings from 9" to 14", and the room is mostly open to a foyer with high ceiling and is about 10x10.
I'm currently running a setup scavenged from my home theater:
Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ > Rotel RC-1590 Preamp > Rotel RB-1582 mk2 amp > B&W 805 D3
The sound overall is excellent, but it's a little bright and lacks bass presence (as you'd expect for a 2 way bookshelf). Here are my top speakers I've auditioned:
B&W 802D3 ( Auditioned with: Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ > McIntosh C52 > McIntosh 601) at Magnolia
KEF Reference 5 (Auditioned with Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ > McIntosh C47 > McIntosh MC452) at Magnolia at the same time as the 802.
Focal Sopra 3 (Auditioned with NAIM DAC > NAIM NAP 500 DR Amp - 140W per channel) at difference location
I also heard the KEF Reference 3 and Blade but ruled them out, the Ref 3 for sound, and the Blade for price and it being kind of ugly.
Here's the thing, I feel like I'm not sure what to get. I love the general sound of the 802, but I'm afraid even with the MC452 it'd be a bit bright. It also really lacked the presence in the bass like the Reference 5.
The Reference 5 sounds wonderful, and the bass is prolific, but I'm a little concerned about it being too warm. I heard the Ref 5 and 802s in the same room with virtually the same equipment, back to back, and they were so very different. The Ref 5 was warm, with rich full mids, that maybe were even too lush, with bass so good I honestly thought the subwoofer was on.
The 802 had good bass, but nothing to write home about (and it even had the more powerful 601 monoblocks), but the clarity was astounding, I just fear it'll be a little too bright for my room, which seems to lean bright already. That said, there is just something so exciting about the sound of this speaker playing orchestral. The problem was I much preferred the KEF for rock/r&b.
Then, to add to the mix, I liked the Focal Sopra 3 a lot, but I also felt it lacked bass presence, though it was on the weakest amp by a wide margin. The Focal seemed to be the middle ground between the B&W and KEF, but the bass concerned me. I'm not a bass nut, but I do want my bass to be powerful and don't want to have to add a sub. (Even for orchestral, I felt the Focal lacked a bit in the low cello and bass parts)
My plan was to keep the Mytek, and probably get a McIntosh C47 and MC452 or MC462, as I think the Rotels are probably too bright and underpowered for any of these setups. I was definitely hitting 300+W on the 802s during my audition while listening to orchestral music.
Thoughts? Is the KEF really that pudgy in the middle, is the B&W really that bright, and does the Sopra 3 really lack bass presence?
p.s. I thought the Blade was better balanced, but also still pretty warm.
82 responses Add your response
Hi, I just thought I would post my 10P's worth to your query, even though I live in the UK. Not sure if Gato Audio are distributed in the US but if they are try and get to listen to a pair of Gato Audio FM-50 floorstanders. Marvelous speakers with all the frequencies you could possibly wish for, including excellent bass response. They are bi-wirable/bi-amp(able?) also have a set of pins at the back which can be set to give greater or less, frequency response to suit your ears. I prefer them to B&W 800 series anyday although to be fair I have not compared them to the Diamond range. Even so, they are a truly superb sounding pair of speakers, which in the UK at least, are retailing for around the £7K mark. Best of luck in your pursuit of great sound and best regards to you. Namar57 |
I have owned many, many, many cables from both ends of the spectrum ($400 looms to $30k looms). What I have found, is that MIT cables have consistently allowed my system(s) to sound their best. They deliver everything they claim, but most of all, my music just sounds so unbelievably organic, dynamic and tonaly correct. MIT cables also allow you to feel as though you are in the space of the musicians like no other I have heard. I’ve wasted a lot of time and money attempting to improve and or deny how good they are...they are simply wonderful cables! By the way, there are diminishing returns to some degree, so you can have 90% of the best performance within MIT for an affordable price. If interested, I have a supplier who can get you anything by MIT at an extremely good price. I am a long time customer of his, but have no affiliation or monetary connection with his business. He is simply a veteran of the audio industry with tons of experience and knowledge. |
mayoradamwest...Don’t mean to throw a wrench into your speaker choice column ..but..the Acoustic Zen Crescendo II is truly a music making machine of the highest order that has to be heard to be believed...a true contender in the sub $25,000.00 price range. Good luck with your search. |
The breakup distortion the new midrange on B&W D3 series was designed to ameliorate still doesn’t do it to the degree that it does in your 805D3 with its butyl, rubber surround. Consider adding a subwoofer. Your room may be overloaded by the very top B&W one (& some others) so ideally, you’d want to listen to it first in your room. You’ve plenty of room left in your budget for good cable so be sure to get that right. The cable company lets you try before you buy but some of that flexibility may be attainable elsewhere. |
I replaced the Rotel RB-1582mkii with the MC452 2 days ago and it completely changed the sound in my room. I’m astonished at the bass out of these 805D3s. I doubt I’ll need a sub in this room with the 802s. I’m excited to see how much better it will get with the McIntosh preamp and AQ cables, but I will say this Mc amp with the 805 is a winning combo. |
I have to agree with @bassdude on the Legacy Aeris. Of the 3 options, I'd go with the Sopra, but the Aeris has a richness to the texture of instruments and voices that really makes it stand apart from the others. I auditioned the Sopra, 803D and Magicos. On the Legacy each instrument is in its own plane- I've never heard better depth from a system. There are very pronounced differences in the layers as well as very subtle depth and width cues that were only revealed on the Aeris. Well recorded classical or jazz piano showed how the Aeris correctly portrayed not only the timbre of the instrument (I'm super picky on piano) but also the space of the room it was recorded in around the instrument. I think the extra layers had a lot to do with the open baffle 10" and 8" drivers on the Aeris top. The dual 12" subs and passive radiator really afforded a realistic weight to each instrument. I really like the OP's ROI list! That's important to remember :) |
I just became a dealer for Vandersteen Audio speakers. We respect territories. I am blown away with the performance of the Vandersteen Quatros with Bryston 4B- 3 amplifiers. I also like Audio Research Pre-Amps with this combination. Look up and find a local Vandy dealer...Amazing Powered Woofers with lots of room correction too ! |
@bassdude and @mtrot I actually listened to Leonard on the Aeris! You're spot on with the lower mid bass on them. That midwoofer's magnetic structure alone is 10 lbs, and in that open baffle arrangement, there isn't any cabinet resonance at all. The dipole arrangement on Aeris plus Wavelet correction really makes the transition from sub bass to midbass so clean and sets the speaker apart. I believe that is a contributing factor to how resolving and revealing the Legacy is. |
Congratulations on your new speakers, I try to listen to what's popular at the dealership' to narrow it down then bring home the finalists to see how well they sound in my room. Having bought expensive speakers that bowled me over in the showroom sound rough at home now I just don't chance it. if I can't find a pair to demo at home and I really need to know I'll buy them used to mitigate the damage should I be disappointed. |
Mayoradamwest and others You address 2 speaker lines I hope to audition in the same dealer showroom tomorrow. The dealer also carries Paradigm. I read your comments carefully and would appreciate any additional thoughts. I am trading my B&W 802d2's with the object of improving midrange clarity and diminishing high frequency 'ring'. I recently purchased the ML 523/534 combination, which reprises the lush sound of the ML-7/xx but with greater clarity and high frequency extension. The new ML combination diminished but did not eliminate the 802d2's brightness, and exposed some lack of midrange clarity. Having enjoyed the B&W nautilus series for 20 years I lean towards purchase of the 802d3's...which are reputed to improve on the two 802d2 'deficiencies' just cited. Another motive for staying with B&W is my need to overcome the sound absorption of upholstered furniture and draperies....use is in a living room, not a dedicated listening room. Additionally, I listen almost exclusively to classical music, piano in particular, and very much like the improvement in reproduction of piano music that the newer ML electronics in combination with the 802d2's produced. Thirdly, the B&W's have a room-filling ambiance that I imagine is audible to an orchestra's conductor but not in the same measure by members of the audience....in other words, an 'unrealistic' (for concert-goers) but very pleasurable sonic experience. I ask if the KEF reference 5's in particular (or the Paradigm speakers) equal the 802d3's in 'sound staging' and 'ambiance', have equal bass reproduction, bring still greater clarity to orchestral music. Thanks |
RE:
audiotroy2,421 posts08-12-2018 7:05pmMilipai
almost every company offers the same margins and we dont sell B&W
nor Focal. Not huge B&W fans as the Diamond tweeter is a little too
much for us. We love the Focals but we dont need the line as we have the
Paradigm Persona line. Lets face facts Proac was a player in the 90s same as Audio Physic both make good speakers but are hardly the go to lines they were 20 year ago. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ So true guys. BUT, Paraguana (lol) Persona over Focal ? pj |
RE: stringreen5,503 posts08-17-2018 4:49pmWhy would you not have Vandersteen speakers on your search list? Well, for starters, it was brought to my attention that Vandersteen's $10-$20K loudspeakers uses self-tapping wood-screws to secure (make that "attach") the driver's to the baffle board !!! That in itself is a reason to stay away at those price points. pj |
Well if anyone is concerned about fasteners into an extremely dense baffle just give Richard Vandersteen a call, he answers the phone ( press 2 at the menu ) since 1977... and at ( actually for far less $ ) every pair is hand tuned in the Anechoic chamber Mayor - nice choice of speakers, enjoy them in good health!!!! |