Not only can she play but shes HOT too |
|
Yesterday, I've been on King Crimson at Town Hall NY.
They already long time have drummer Pat Mastelotto. He's heavy Lars-Ulrich type of guy but probably that's what they were always looking for... |
Come on!!! Where are the jazz cats??? Jeff "Tain" Watts, Elvin Jones (mostly during the Trane era), Paul Motian! |
Mgh, I'm not insulting NP's intelligence - which I'm sure must be fairly high - I'm insulting his band, his lyrics, and his drumming. Not the same thing - but obviously, as you say, it's a matter of taste, not open to argument (as far as honorary 'doctorates' go, this is a well-known scam intended to bring attention to the issuing institution).
About your Paul quote re Ringo, it's always worth remembering that he was considered one of the best drummers in the original Liverpool scene, and The Beatles basically stabbed Pete Best in the back to acquire his services just prior to their really making a push to get signed with a major label. It's often been said that Ringo wound up being the luckiest walk-on role-player in the world, but I think it was really The Beatles (and the rest of us) who were the lucky ones, and I suspect Paul would agree. |
Zaikesman—Thank you for the informative perspective on Ringo. I will go back and listen more critically to the songs you suggested. Perhaps during those "daze" the Beatles were together, I (not a musician) was looking for more splash and less technique. Live and Learn. |
Dave Weckl,Anders Johansson,Dean Castronovo |
It's a matter of taste, which is personal and which, by extension, can't really be debated or discussed in an effective manner, since we pretty much hold on tight to our convictions in matters of personal preferences with respect to art, music, etc. Trying to convince someone whose favourite drummer is "X" that "Y" is in fact the best drummer around is a waste of energy. Discussing the respective merits or weaknesses of each player is perhaps a better approach, whereas trashing one or another drummer, or any other artist/musician, is really not very helpful.
P.S. - Zaikesman, Peart didn't receive awards of the Grammy or AMA variety, but honorary doctorates from well-respected Universities in the US. If you're not a fan, that's cool, but no need to insult the guy's intelligence with words like "sophomorically pretentious lyrics". At least they have something to say, which is more than can be said about most lyrics that have been written in rock/pop music.
Agree in large about Ringo though. Apparently (don't know if this fact or urban myth), when answering a question doubting Ringo's abilities, Paul simply and very seriously said that he was the most solid drummer he could hope for and wouldn't want anyone else in the seat for The Beatles. |
Hey, even all you pothead prog geeks out there would have to admit that nobody, I mean nobody, ever played the drums with a pair of nine inch latex dildoes with as much skill as El Duce of The Mentors. |
Rosstaman, obviously nothing I say here will or should change what you hear. But even folks who are much more into technical virtuousity than I am will acknowledge Ringo's preeminence in the development of rock drumming. Think back to when The Beatles first burst on the world scene - they were immediately different for many reasons, including their chord changes, harmonies, sheer melodic richness, and lyrical directness, not to mention their hairstyle. But the one thing that most set them apart sonically from the pop of their day and kicked off the British invasion was their treatment of the beat (hence the band name, and the stealing away of the word "beat" from the beatnik generation as a genre designation - all British invasion music was now 'beat music').
That beat was just so much bigger and more driving than what rock & roll had been up to that point, that The Beatles also did for drums what they did more famously for guitars: set off a world-wide teenage instrument buying wave (much to the dismay of piano and saxophone teachers everywhere). The Beatles were the first rock band to become famous for playing their own instruments as a regular self-contained unit (setting up the paradigm the music has followed ever since, excluding disco-derived genres), the first to really define the prototypical modern guitar/guitar/bass/drums instrumental lineup (with apologies to The Crickets, their namesake, and instumental groups like The Shadows), and Ringo was the first drummer in rock to become a star rather than an anonymous backing musician.
You're right, I'm a musician who's not a drummer (guitar player), but strictly as a Beatles lover and someone interested in the history of the music, I think anyone who listens can tell that Ringo changed the way drums sounded in rock: More focus brought to what has since been considered the heart of the kit - snare, hi-hat, and kick, with less emphasis on toms or riding on the big cymbal, and more on crashing and using toms for accents; deemphasis of shuffle beats, half-times, or triplets in favor of straight ahead 4/4's (the 'Beatles beat' was much less overtly jazz or r&b influenced than rock had been in the 50's); moving of the drums way up in the recorded mix, taking traditional beat-keeping chores away from discarded instruments like piano, horns, or doo-wop-style vocal choruses. There were actecedents to The Beatles' approach to be sure, but all these were rendered somewhat not 'current'-sounding when The Beatles hit, because they just stripped everything down while at the same time turning it up a notch (just compare the two well-known versions of "Twist & Shout", The Isley Brothers' and The Beatles', to hear what I'm talking about.)
Ringo was also probably the first drummer in rock to be noticed for the way he looked and moved while he played, and for the appearance of his kit. But even more importantly than the attention he brought to the drummer as a band member and to the beat in the music, Ringo is still unsurpassed for his composing of drum parts that perfectly complement songs and stick in the listener's head, just as much as guitar riffs do. He helped move rock drumming beyond just keeping time more than had been heard since the early days of Elvis' backing trio with D.J. Fontana and Jerry Allison with Buddy Holly, but those drummers didn't have the kind of musically varied and sophisticated material to work with that Lennon & McCartney provided. As The Beatles moved past their initial beat-group phase and into their extended period of unprecedented stylistic evolution, Ringo showed himself fully up to the task of basically redefining the possibilities of his instrument in the band context on a virtually continual basis, playing-, arranging-, and sound-wise. Of course others appeared to push boundaries even further, but it should not be forgotten that Ringo opened the door which more virtuousic players like Moon, Baker, Mitchell, and Bonham were able to walk through. And the sounds he kept developing during The Beatles' later years were the blueprint for the work of players like Fleetwood and Mason in the 70's.
I remember back to high school, where the common rap against Ringo among the music-heads was that he "couldn't even play a military press roll" or words to that effect. I don't know how true that really was - the charge became so widespread that I've read anecdotal accounts of people who knew and worked with Ringo specifically debunking it, saying they never heard him not be able to play any drum part, and that he always kept perfect time and never required multiple takes. As far as McCartney playing drums occasionally on some of his later material (and also "The Ballad of John and Yoko"), well, he's a good drummer in his own right, and The Beatles were often working separately by that time (Ringo even quit the band for about a day during the sessions which became the "Let It Be" film). Whatever - all that's unimportant anyway. Just take a careful listen to Ringo's work on songs as simple or weird, rocking or dreamy, but always as varied, as "Penny Lane", "Let It Be", "Day Tripper", "Ticket To Ride", "Hold Me Tight", "Tomorrow Never Knows", "Come Together", "Something", "I Saw Her Standing There", "Birthday", "A Day in The Life", "Paperback Writer", or any of well over a hundred others, and see whether you can imagine any other drummer coming up with better parts, playing them more to perfection, or getting a more distinctive or apporopriate sound doing so. I can't reach any conclusion except that with any other drummer (no matter how virtuousic), the world's greatest and most important rock band ever would have been diminished from what they were, same as if Zep hadn't had John Bonham or The Stones didn't have Charlie Watts. Ringo may not be your favorite drummer if you're not a Beatles fan, but if you are, I honestly can't see how you could think he "sucks".
P.S. - Canuck, IMO Peart's sophomorically pretentious lyrics are the worst thing about Rush aside from Geddy Lee's voice. But you're right - for how I feel about 'awards', see the recent Grammy thread... |
John Bonham
Neil Peart
Lars Ulrich (Metallica) |
Harvy Mason and Steve Gad !! |
Terry Bozzio, Billy Cobham, Eric Pohl |
john french/christian vander/jacki liebezeit |
- Billy Kilson, of the Dave Holland Quintet and has his own group, the guy is a monster of poly-rhythm;
- Jack DeJohnette, he can do so much with so little and has played so many different styles of jazz, it's mind-boggling;
- Neil Peart, what can I say, I'm a long-time fan of Rush.
Zaikesman, the fact NP received an honorary doctorate in recognition of his percussion skills, as well as another in recognition of his writing/lyrics, will probably still leave you unimpressed. In any event, he has a large and loyal following, which says something about his talents. My 2 cents. |
I'd add to previous excellent suggestions Pick Withers, the original drummer of Dire Straits. While he is technically excellent, he also knows when and how to blend into the background, and when to come to the foreground. Just love the drumming on the first 3 dire straits albums. |
Bun E. Carlos, Clem Burke, and whoever that guy was who used to play drums for Big Black are three of mine the most favorite drummers. |
Zaikesman—Obviously, you are either a drummer, musician or very in-tuned to drummers. I know that Ringo was the most famous drummer at that time, but didn't know he contributed a new style. Live and learn! So, do you why did Paul do so much of the drumming on Abbey Road? And do you really think Ringo was a better and more creative drummer than most of the "wankers" listed above?
To my ears, Ringo sucked! |
Holy Ehm...Baker!
I see lots of folks here recognize and love da rhythm stuff!
I bet that some of you know Brain (Bill Laswell Praxis project)
Also Dave Lambardo from Laswell trio with Frith...
They're monsters that can literally eat out Larc Ulrich indeed! |
That was small "c" Duane. Don't worry though - only they get the pointy stick! (We get |
Yep, Rosstaman, anyone who ever banged the skins is a favorite. |
Hey Zaik, never been accused of being anywhere near catholic before... maybe I won't have to meet the little red man w/ the pointy stick after all. Here are a few more Ringo wannabes that deserve mention:
Ian Moseley (Was great in Wolf)
Pierre van der Linden (Focus, Trace)
Pip Pyle (National Health, Hatfield and the North)
Jon Hazilla
Chester Thompson (kicked arse w/Zappa)
Kenny Wolleson (New Klezmer Trio, Zorn)
SteveMcCall (Henry Threadgill,Air)
Don Moye (Art Ensemble of Chicago, Leaders) |
Jack DeJohnette
Tony Williams
"Philly" Joe Jones
Honorable Mention..David Garabaldi
I could go on and on but won't. |
Rosstaman, I could say the same for you as a Beatles lover... :-) Nobody - and I mean nobody - moved it like Ringo! And no other drummer in pop music has ever composed distinctively memorable drum parts for *songs* as effectively, period. But as if that weren't enough for all you 70's-head goofballs, he single-handedly created, for better or worse, the prototypical isolated and damped drum sound that changed forever the way drums were played and recorded in the studio beginning in that decade. I'd take listening to one redolent snare hit, one stomping bass kick, one beat-pushing half-opened hi-hat, or one sublimely earthy crashed ride played with meaning by Ringo over the entire career outputs of most of the wankers listed above...
Daune, as usual, your tastes are so catholic, cosmopolitan, and unfortunately obscure, that I can't say a word a'gin' ya! So I'll just say that I've seen Jim Black, and he's a great artist (even if I didn't dance).
Alright, now I need to continue my list from above, if only in a vain attempt to counteract this bemoanable tide of white-boys-can't-dance click-track hydraulic-heads replete with their splash cymbals and roto-toms - put these in your double bass drums and smoke 'em:
Benny Benjamin, Levon Helm, Dannie Richmond, Clem Burke, Howard Grimes, Dennis Thompson, Hugh Grundy, Philly Jo Jones, John Maher, Diamond Williams, Tommy Ardolino, Hugo Burnham, Prince Rogers Nelson, Marc Bell, Jody Stephens, Sam Lay, Jim McCarty, Jerry Allison, Philthy Phil Taylor (threw this in just for you guys as the only acceptable use for those double bass drums :-), Rick Buckler, Dickie Harrell, Doug Clifford, Bobby Elliott...and, lest any of you misunderestimate just how much I truly can't abide Neil Peart (not that half his self-proclaimed fans seem to know how to spell his name) and his ilk, Mr. Sandy Nelson!!
P.S. - Clamps2000: You were almost da man, but Mickey Dolenz was the actor playing the drums in The Monkees... :-) |
the drummers from Blink 182, Greenday and Papa Roach. These guys are really incredible and amazing, more drummers need to check them out. |
Oh yeah, Mike Shrieve, the original drummer with Santana.
And how 'bout the drummer with Kitaro.
I love the Beatles, and don't know if the fab four could have made it without eachother. They certainly had a synergy that was most evident when they played together vs. their not-so-magical solo careers. That being said, Ringo sucked as a drummer. |
|
Jim Black
Tom Rainey
Jerry Granelli |
Yeah your Right "Dave Weckl", Right, And, Stewart Copland, Neil Peart, Alan White (All Rock Hall of Fame Drummers).And what about that new Guy with Jeff Beck... Wow... |
1-Mike Portnoy...hits ev'rything at once...while spinnin' his sticks!!!
2-Lars Ulrich...a MIGHTY little guy
3-Terry Bozzio...so unique |
ooh, how in the hell could I have forgotten Dave Weckl? |
Here are a few others that haven't been mentioned.
Gary Novak
Josh Freese
Steve DiStanislao
Gary Husband
Carlos Vega
Richie Hayward
Matt Cameron
Dennis Chambers
Gregg Bissonette
Tris Imboden
John Keane
Joey Baron
Brian Blade
Billy Higgins
Chad Wackerman
Al Foster |
Gene Krupa: stunning on Sing, Sing, Sing NT |
Don't see how any whacko who spends thousands of hours and $'s on an audio addiction can in good conscience only pick 3 favorite drummers (sorry about violating the 3 rule). Here a few amazing skin beaters I haven't seen listed so far:
Ed Blackwell (Dolphy, Ornette, Haden... great listener and thinker)
Han Bennink (Max Roach/Elvin Jones on acid, but still totally aware and in control).
Scott Amendola
Furio Chirico (Arti + Mestieri, unbelievable rpm count, even the most jaded progheads turn to jelly).
Tim Alexander (Got even more diabolical after Primus, check out Attention Deficit for proof).
Joey Baron (May have let up a little during the last couple of years, but his Crackshot disc guarantees him a spot on the list).
Jim Black (Takes up where Joey Baron left off, Alasnoaxis is a good one to start with).
Dave Kerman (Percussive genius. This guy was in Blast, Present, Thinking Plague and 5uu's. Way too much to expect from a one headed two armed bi-ped).
Les DeMerle (Put out a record called Spectrum way before Cobham, it's kind of like Buddy Rich on steroids doing some good Mingus charts.
Hasse Bruniusson ( The Flying Food Circus is crammed w/ insane european carnival music virtuosity).
Alex Cline (Several of his releases show how stagnant Crimson has become).
Jerry Granelli (Great at choosing contrasting resonances and patterns, it's pretty easy to identify his playing. Start w/ Another Place, and you'll want more)
Andrew Cyrille (If I really had to only pick 3... Plays drums like he's having a conversation).
Steve Clarke (Groon, Network, not at all a weak sister when compared to Hiseman, Cobham, Husband or Wackerman).
Charles Hayward (Makes convoluted interlocking spastic patterns beautiful and easy to enjoy. Start w/ Massacre (Fred Frith/Bill Laswell) or This Heat).
Mani Neumeier (Guru Guru, Psychedlia never made it this far in the 60's, try Kanguru or their s/t disc).
Daniel Denis (Univers Zero)
Danny Frankel (Kamikaze Ground Crew)
Bobby Previte (Huge output, alot w/Zorn, In the Grass, and the Joan Miro discs are great)
Kevin Norton (Excellent avant or inside player, Knots is a good starter)
Gerry Hemingway (Another brilliant musician that smears any line between 20th/21st century cassical and jazz forms)
Guigou Chenevier (Great tactile quality and humor in his playing. Octavo is a good one).
Yoshida Tatsuya (Ruins is an avalanche of brainfry math collisions, Symphonica or Burning Stone might provide a good entry).
Pierre Favre ( If you thought a solo percussion record had to be boring, try Portraits. Superb recording quality).
Robert Wyatt (Early soft Machine through Matching Mole)
Ed Thigpen (Longtime Oscar Peterson drummer, I like the stuff he's done under his own name during the 90's as much as anything he's done).
Zach Hill (Hella, Zach soaked up lots of Beefheart and Ruins and nearly kills himself playing the way he has to).
Dave Witte (Also a mathematical blast furnace. May not make Zaik dance or shuffle ... I guess he suuucks. At least he's not Steve Gadd |
Johan Langell, that guys good too, "Mr.Sotantar" knows his stuff, and all you Mike Portnoy (Dream Theater) Fans Check out Jason Rullo (Symphony X), Better than Dream Theater, And all you Neil Peart (Rush) fans, Now this one's a really hot tip.., Check out Maximum Indifference, It's Rush beyond your wildest imagination! |
Tony Williams
Omar Hakim
Harvey Mason |
Russ Kunkle - I can't believe no one's mentioned him. Wow
Steve Gadd - I loved his work with the band Charlie
Mic Fleetwood - Don't get no respect, but really can boogie |
Bill Stewart, Bill Bruford, Peter Erskine |
1) Neil Peart (RUSH)
2) Virgil Donati (solo and now with Planet X, the most incredible drummer i've ever heard on double bass)
3) Jim Keltner (probably the best studio drummer in the world)
I also have great respect for guys like Danny Carey (TOOL), Phil Collins, Simon Philips, Terry Bozzio, Josh Frese, Mark Brezecki (sp?), Manu Katche and many others. |
Johan Langell,(Pain of Salvation), Jaime Salazar, (Flower Kings), Simon Phillips |
Always been partial to Bill Bruford in all of his many "lives", as others have mentioned. John Bonahm was awesome and underrated for his contributions to LZ, albeit overrated for his contributions to debauchery (well maybe not). Kudos to Jla for mentioning Porcaro.
Really too many in jazz to begin listing, IMHO.
What, no mention of Gene Krupa?! |
John Bonham
Steve Jordan
Abe Laboriel Jr. |
Peter Erskine
Steve Ferrone
Bernard Purdie |
Tony Williams
Billy Higgins
Roy Haynes |
Vinnie Colaiuta
Jeff Porcaro
Steve Gadd |
Neil Peart, John Bonham, Tery Bozzio |
Neil Peart
Keith Moon
Carl Palmer |
My favorite is Steve Gadd. |
Zaik: Thanks, he looked like a Joe too (I'm bad with names). |
Here's three I didn't see anyone mention, David Garibaldi (Tower of Power),Matt Abts (Govt Mule) , and Mike Portnoy (Dream Theater) |
