@geoffkait I absolutely should have known better. Truth is, I was going to call you on it! Suggest you were being ironic - not in earnest. Never saw the movie so hadn't a clue. The sincerity of tone was out of character for you (having read so many of your posts) but I figured, old Geoff gets his share of abuse, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. More fool me, I suppose. Regardless, I'll stand by MY assessment of Collins (and Genesis).
Time for me to come clean. The Phil Collins paragraph I posted is actually the very sarcastic monologue spoken by the protagonist of Amercian Psycho, Patrick Bateman. A thousand pardons. 😛
@geoffkait I enjoyed reading your opinions on Phil Collins and Genesis even though I probably take the exact opposite view of his/their discography. Prefer the prog rock stuff and enjoyed most of their output through And Then There Were Three.
With Duke, Abacab and the s/t Genesis, they started to lose me a little bit more with each release. Didn’t follow them closely after and never bought any of those. Some of the tracks just too obviously commercial and dumbed down compared to what they were capable of (or so I thought).
It has been a LONG time since I’ve even considered Invisible Touch. But thanks to your comments and Tidal/Spotify, I’ll be sure to check it out.
Good that @harold-not-the-barrel brought up Collins’ work on the early Brand X albums (e.g., Unorthodox Behavior). Saved me from mentioning it. Quite some versatility on display there.
Glad to read from you about something other than directionality !! ;-)
Do you like Phil Collins? I've been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that, I really didn't understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual. It was on Duke where Phil Collins' presence became more apparent. I think Invisible Touch was the group's undisputed masterpiece. It's an epic meditation on intangibility. At the same time, it deepens and enriches the meaning of the preceding three albums. Listen to the brilliant ensemble playing of Banks, Collins and Rutherford. You can practically hear every nuance of every instrument. In terms of lyrical craftsmanship, the sheer songwriting, this album hits a new peak of professionalism. Take the lyrics to Land of Confusion. In this song, Phil Collins addresses the problems of abusive political authority. In Too Deep is the most moving pop song of the 1980s, about monogamy and commitment. The song is extremely uplifting. Their lyrics are as positive and affirmative as anything I've heard in rock. Phil Collins' solo career seems to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying, in a narrower way. Especially songs like In the Air Tonight and Against All Odds. But I also think Phil Collins works best within the confines of the group, than as a solo artist, and I stress the word artist. This is Sussudio, a great, great song, a personal favorite. 😬
Phil Collins - master already at 21 on "Nursery Cryme": see the Belgian TV Show March 1972 and that humble kit. Class, plays brilliantly also jazz in Brand X and later in his career (simpler) pop with ease.
Jon Hiseman - the ultimate driving force for all the bands he has played with. COLOSSEUM LIVE, 1971. He´s actually a jazz man but comes behind no-one as a rock drummer. The Leader.
Carl Palmer - positive attitude, like Keith Moon´s. Ultimate power like Hiseman w/ superb skill, very technical and very very fast, still with taste and a style of his own. Like Hiseman, has jazz soul and that makes him high above of rock drummers.
Bill Bruford - a true jazz man, never dull just pure style & class. The greatest fusion drummer really. King Crimson 1972 -75. Sublime and very creative stuff. Alongside Palmer, the only "technically perfect drummer" I can stand.
Jamie Muir is a genius but he´s a percussionist really. Creative and unique. He shines in King Crimson 1972-73, that line-up w/ David Cross created the best avantgarde/jazz/rock/fusion. The German Televison program late 1972 is telepathy.
John Weathers - prog rock´s Keith Moon - go figure :^ )) Furio Chirico - jazz/fusion´s Carl Palmer - go figure : ^)
I haven't seen Budgie from Siouxsie and the Banshees mentioned. That guy can kick some serious ass with two sticks. Talk about underrated style, sophistication and dead on precision, let alone his ability to make his playing sound like a trio of drummers. Absolutely amazing percussionist. Check him out. If you've ever been to a Banshees show, you know what I'm talking about.
I tripped across this thread again and realized that no one has yet mentioned Winston Grennan. It can be fairly (though not conclusively) argued that Grennan invented reggae. He is pretty much universally credited with the "one drop" beat - bass drum on the third - that forms the basis of the genre. He played with everyone from Count Basie to Paul Simon - not mention my man, Kid Creole.
John Bonham Ginger Baker Keith Moon (there are some more, but there are only supposed to be three, right?! so I guess these are the top three right now...)
Shelley Manne-on the beat, Gene Krupa-perfect support, Buddy Rich-brought drummers deserved attention. Considering Jazz only. Many others right up there.
I know few drummers, but recommend these: Guenter Sommer's "Saechsische Schatulle" (Saxonian treasure-box) is a remarkable solo drumming album of the nontraditional jazz or free drumming vein. Poetic and humane. Jaki Liebezeit's impeccable timing and his deliciously economical work add a lot to "Can"'s recordings, even to their weaker albums like "Flow motion". And the various drummers and bunches of percussionists employed by Sun Ra are just fun; they sound tempestuous and provide for extra energy rather than just rhythm.
Derrick McKenzie (Jamiroquai live in Montreux) [/quote]
Also Steve Ferrone - "More Head" on CDbaby with Stoned Temple Pilots - awesome grooves on this live album.
other Funky groovemasters: Dennis Chambers (currently touring with Sanatana and "Mr Pocket" - plays for hours with a perfect locked in groove!) David Garibaldi (the amazing way he accents is just unbelieveable - you need a good system to hear it all though) Harvey Mason (awesome stuff on "On Broadway" Weeekend in LA by George Bensen and on Headhunters - Hancock) Maceo Parker Live on Planet Groove (has some excellent drumming by Kenward Dennard ) Mike Clark ( On Thrust - Herbie Hancock) Joseph "Zigaboo" Modeliste (The Meters)
in trad jazz Sonny Payne rules - just a perfect "goldilocks touch" not too much not too little but just right
Stewart Copeland of the Police has the most distinctive style of drumming that I have ever heard. Keith Moon was also a great drummer with a very unique style all his own. Don Brewer of Grand Funk was a superb powerful drummer and should not be overlooked. Check out some of those old Grand Funk drum solos. The guy was remarkable!
Buddy Rich - met him after a concert when I was 17 and he was actually cool. Gave me a couple of pointers and signed my ticket stub. Still have it. There's just none finer except maybe...
Carl Palmer - when I can't follow along at all you are good... very good
Bernard Purdie - The amazing shuffle beat that ate the world whole, spit it out and started again.
Try Brian Blade, and a not very well known drummer with shockingly good technique, Jojo Mayer, who started doing some very interesting live drum and bass music in the 90s in NYC(I hate synthesized music, and love watching Jojo play, so don't let this scare you away if you are like me). Check out the videos on youtube of Mayer playing at the 2005 Drummer World Show.
A few worth mentioning who are easy to overlook, unfortunately. Al Jackson Jr (from Booker T & the MGs), James Cobb (Miles Davis-Kind of Blue), Mike Clark (Headhunters), Scott Amendola
I will say this though ... I saw Lynard Skynard some 30 years ago with 2 drummers doing solos and passing sticks through the air, not missing a beat and thought that was cool. I saw Diana Krall live in Montreal on Bravo channel and thought that the Peter Erskine performance was the most at-home, in his element drummer I had ever witnessed. I enjoyed watching Steve Gadd perform in "One Trick Pony" - his perfomance on 'Aja' - well...I wish I could have seen it. Dan Gottlieb at a Pat Metheny Group show in 1979. "Futureman" from Bela Fleck - the best non-drummer I had ever witnessed. All performances I shall remember - not necessarily the best. Oh yeah, the guy from Filter that went on to Smashing Pumpkins - honorable mention.
I was a big Kofi Baker fan based on the Jonas Hellborg Abstract Logic disc and one night stumbled into an Ohm show... figured they'd smoke pretty good based on their 1st disc. This was different... the drums were even better (dangerous level 5 tornado s**t), seemed like it must be new drummer. Then they broke into an exceptionally glandular section off Hellborg's Abstract Logic, it had to be and was Kofi Baker proving that he has few peers.
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