My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

@jays_audio_lab To your point that a blown driver can happen any time, that is correct. However, if we look at the number of speakers out there that have never had their drivers replaced, I am pretty certain that it would be a significant majority, perhaps even regardless of age! You blew a driver due to carelessness, but i do not think this is as common as you suppose. Your point about the cost of a driver is well taken given the examples you post, but IMO the odds of this happening are nowhere near as great as you may think. Unless, one is extremely careless!

I do question when was the last time that a consumer who would likely buy an expensive pair of speakers ( north of say $20K) would concern themselves about the cost of the materials to build the product. There are a lot of speakers on the market in that category that cost the manufactures less than a 1/5 of the asking price to build, and in some cases -- a lot less! ( BTW, this applies not just to speakers, but most high end audio gear, and as you correctly pointed out...cabling is another story entirely!)

I can personally think of a pair of speakers that are now retailing for slightly north of $90K that cost the manufacturer a little more than $2K to build....and that’s just off the top of my head!

I believe some people CAN afford a certain product but they don’t want to pay high cost of ownership even though they have the money to pay it. Just because you have the money to buy something doesn’t mean you want to pay for the high costs of ownership. Think like this:Toyota land cruiser is like what, $80-100k? Why do you think people buy it with their eyes closed not caring to pay the price? Because cost of ownership is low....it’s bullet proof...it doesn’t break. It doesn’t need special expensive oils. It doesn’t need special tires and doesn’t need all the craziness that others such as land Rover need. The land cruiser can easily demolish any other suv known to man and even with high mileage they aren’t cheap. They are also not expensive to repair (if they ever need repairs) .

Yes I get the argument above, but trust me I speak to a lot of people through my consultation service and some of these people DO NOT want to deal with certain scenarios.

Are you saying that owning Magico’s has a much higher cost of ownership than Wilson’s?

I think almost all audio gear has a cost of ownership, some pieces more than others. It’s is quite hard to name a piece of audio gear that increases in value over time, never mind keeps its value.

Your analogy of the Toyota to the Land Rover is an interesting one, again in high end audio, I think there is even more ’brand’ consciousness than in automobiles. Certainly with regard to certain products that are priced in the very upper end of the hobby, there is an assumption that reliability and ability is a factor...even though this may not be the case at all.

I always laugh at the example one of my experienced a’phile friends gave me a few years back, when he was shopping for a good DAC. Ended up with a Bryston BDA 3, which shocked all of his less knowledgable friends. They were surprised why he bought the lowly Bryston vs. the much more expensive Lampi that they all owned ( and which he could also easily afford). My friend wasn’t so enamored of the inner workings of the Lampi. In the ensuing shoot out that followed, how many of his friends do you think were still as enamored of their Lampi’s?? So yes, price isn’t always a determinant in this hobby as well....

Some audiophiles REFUSE to buy European products because of how much money it costs to ship back to Europe. I know of someone who had soulution 701s and he sold them after he spent $9,500 to have them shipped to Switzerland for service and yes this person has money to ship them but he said that he doesn't want to be hustled. 

Folks,
It seems to me as if someone from mágico has called each person or dealer and instructed them to post against my own findings.
I wasn’t attacking the brand by any means. I simply shared my findings with actual evidence. For the record, before I say something I typically have proof and fact-check what I say. I’m not going to embarrass my sources either by saying who shared what with me.
If you watch my YouTube comments you’ll notice the comments from those coming to the rescue. But why? What did I say to upset anyone? It’s ridiculous.
Here I am, former owner of:
M3
M6
S5mk2
A5
S3mk1
Do I need more on my resume?

Should I work on the $229k mágico q7 mk2 to make myself more qualified?

Let me know, I can close this deal this month. 

Choose your DAC and please vote on the poll I have posted on my channel:

Who do you got? Give me your feedback. 

Great video Mike much appreciated. 

Nah, you haven’t had one that sounded great yet. Why bother - why would you expect different results this time? All you ever did was make excuses for the speakers when you had them and be miserable. I think with the last one you spent like $250k on amplification trying to get them to be decent. Stick with what you are pretty sure you will like and know will be able to make sing.

Hey, you asked

Hey Jay,

It’s been awhile since I’ve posted. Actually since your last DAC shootout. Hope you’ve been well and have a wonderful holiday season.

Couple things before I give my thoughts. The Playback DesignsMPD-8 has been on my radar for quite awhile. One of my dealers dropped his DCS dealership in order to carry Playback Designs. Those of you not familiar should read about the Founder’s pedigree. Extremely impressive. I’m also a fan of OCD Mikey, but have found he tends to favorably review as well as push items he reps.

Reference system. Modwright Oppo 205/Western Electric 422a rectifier/75 Reflektor Silver Shields--->Nordost Tyr 2 XLR’s--->Pathos Inpol Ear Headphone amp/75 Reflektor Silver Shields--->Nordost Heimdall 2 headphone cables--->Focal Utopia

My thoughts thru my system before Mikey’s reveal.

Both DACs portrayed the music beautifully and unlike previous shootouts were extremely difficult to separate or in this case to even tell apart. Soundstage was deep with great special queus on both DACs. Music and vocals were presented in a natural and very musical manner. I went back and forth numerous times to try and pick out any differences and simply couldn’t. Maybe,just maybe DAC #2 is very slightly more open in it’s presentation with DAC #1 being just ever so slightly darker but that’s it. After listening initially I gave DAC 2 just a sliver of an edge but to be fairer I have to say this is a toss up and if you read my previous DAC shootout thoughts I am not a toss-up kind of guy. My system is extremely discerning and after going back to the video even now I literally cannot hear any significant differences. With regards to Mikey’s comments on the MSB being souless...Absolutley not. In fact I find the MSB to be quite natural with a relaxed and musical presentation. I find Mikey’s review way over the top, unfairly leaning towards a product he reps and not reflective of anything I hear thru my system

It says quite a bit about Playback Designs that it's 22k flagship competes quite evenly with an 80k DAC from the pre-eminent DAC maker in the industry. Bravo Playback Designs! 👏👏👏

Great shootout again Jay. Much appreciated!

I find Mikey’s review way over the top, unfairly leaning towards a product he reps and not reflective of anything I hear thru my system

Watch some of his videos and read some of his Youtube comments, it's quickly apparent that's his entire MO, attack brands he doesn't sell to push brands that he does, and then attack people who either disagrees or calls him out.

@divertiti +1

Watch some of his videos and read some of his Youtube comments, it’s quickly apparent that’s his entire MO, attack brands he doesn’t sell to push brands that he does, and then attack people who either disagrees or calls him out.

I’m familiar with Mikey. I’ve been subscribed to his channel for over a year. Overall his channel is imo actually quite good. One of my favorite videos is one in which he did a comparison of DSD vs lossless PCM on a Led Zeppelin master track. That review was unbelievably informative and the recording amazing. He also does DAC shootouts quite often using his MPD-8 as reference and I find them to be quite qood.

The point here is that although Mikey has lots of good takes and information, in this one regard he does himself a real disservice. Very few people are going to come away feeling that Playback Designs blew away the MSB or vice versa. It’s too bad that part of Mikey’s schtick is to heavily criticize more expensive pieces and then try and sell cheap stuff he’s a dealer for.

Here is Mikey’s DSD v PCM shootout. We’ll worth a listen.

Magico Q7 II and Gryphon Solo are a great pairing.  They sound exquisite with the new Koda amps as well. 

People are always going to hype up what they are selling,  how else would they unload it...??

Jose

@jays_audio_lab 

Jay made some good comments above regarding neutrality..  In my many decades of owning many different brands and types of audio gear, I have been through many changes to my system after I learned that “pleasing” sound can be boring and dull after awhile..  I just recently restored the “bite” and “edge” to my system because it was too smoothed over, pleasing …. But not sounding visceral or Real.  It’s much more “natural” sounding now with bite and attack. More open and dynamic..  more of a Live experience..  
My methods are different than Jay’s , but my goals are similar. 
 

Let’s talk synergy ?

I’ve been very vocal with some via text about the importance of matching components that play well together.

Power conditioners, power strips, regenerators,( whatever you want to call it) all have a sound signature or choke well designed components. People, I’ll throw a quick tip here for you guys: IF YOU HAVE A GREAT POWERCORD, STOP PLUGGING INTO ONE OF THESE POWER UNITS!

You are doing a "double filtration" which will kill the benefits of the power cord. If you have "average" electronics then experiment using the power conditioner or power strip or whatever you want to call it.

I’m about two seconds away from totally dumping all power units and go straight into the wall. I hope you follow my advice. I've been doing this legwork behind closed doors. 

Folks, I made my best to go through the 250 pages of this great Forum but I did not  find what I was looking for.  I am looking for a great Integrated to match with my Spendor D9.2.  I have been using Naim amplification for a while and I believe I could get better with a different brand.  Any of you guys have experience using the Spendor D9.2 with the following Integrated.

Luxman L590 AXII

Luxman L509

Accuphase E-650 (Price is roughly the same as the Luxman here in canada)

Pass Lab INT60 or maybe INT 250

The Spendor are here to stay for sure.  My dedicated room is roughly 15" X 22" .  Finally I will not move to separate AMP/PRE.  

Your experience would be truly appreciated since it is almost impossible for me to DEMO any of those combination in my area.

Thanks.

belpat, where are you located, in general?  I have one or two of these candidates you could borrow if we are close.  

Thanks Rpeluso.  I am North of Montreal.

Sorry friend, I am in Pennsylvania.

mikem,

Well said, about choosing components that bring life and avoid boredom, which to me is not pleasant.  Yes, real and natural means including the bite and attack. What do you think about the live recording I posted at the end of the previous page?

Jay, the common meaning of "synergy" as used here, is some magical combination of bite and warmth.  However, the reality is that the warm component will shave off some bite.  If your recordings sound "ruthless" with accurate components, it is because they are processed and artificial.  Tell me if you think that video I posted sounds ruthless on your system.  You don't have to like this esoteric classical music (even I didn't know the 1st half with solo piano, although the piano/singer piece at 26 min is popular)--just listen to the piano briefly to appreciate the delicate detail which is natural.  Any "synergy" combination of components will just shave off this recording's detail and make it just a little in the direction of boredom.

Your ideas about just using a great power cord without the power conditioner have merit, but this is not about synergy.  In my NYC apartment, the power quality is probably much worse than yours in suburban Florida, so in your environment you may be right.  But there are days where the power is so bad that the excellence of my system is nearly completely trashed, to a similar extent as described recently by Mike Fremer in S-phile.  The Shunyata Denali 6000 has improved things to a good extent, compared to other products I have tried.  I like my 2 Nordost Vishnu power cords with it, on the amp and CD player.

Mikey misses everything about MSB. And I’ve heard Playback for a decade which is just “good digital” like Aqua and the rest. Sure, it’s warm and smooth but it sounds like digital. Somewhat homogenized digital at that.

What MSB singularly does now since the Select is flow and continuousness that competes with my Brinkmann rig. In fact, analog only guys who visit my room say it’s the only digital they would own and their mind relaxes like on a piece of vinyl. I’ve actually done this comparison with folks.

and the Ref dac is $49k now; includes the same clock as Select but with a single power supply.

@Belpat, I have owned the Spendor D9.2, they are great speakers. They are very high resolution so you will want amplification that has a continuous quality and add body to the sound if that makes sense. The Luxman 590 AXII is a great SS choice. The Line Magnetic 805IA is a great tube choice. If you can up your budget, a used Gryphon Diablo 300 would be the ticket.

divertiti, Thank you very much.  Since I don’t want to deal with tubes, the LM is not an option. I believe there is a single Gryphon dealer in Canada and it is in Vancouver, 3000 miles from me.  That leaves me with the Luxman.  30 class A is enough to drive the D9.2?  (90 db - 8 ohms).  Accuphase E-650 could maybe be an option.

Today's video:

Part 2 of my interview with KRELL’s COO. He will be giving details about their new reference amp that is set to be released next year and cause a big splash in the industry. Lots of great stuff 😉

@viber6 

Thanks !  that is a great recording.. Pianos are VERY difficult to get to sound “real”. Most recordings and playback systems make piano sound like a string instrument, when a piano is actually a percussive instrument with hammers hitting the strings. Impact and dynamics make it sound real….  
great piece..!  I need to play this through my main system…. 

@jays_audio_lab 

Jay.. I disagree with your assessment concerning power conditioners..  

Try balanced power and learn about the virtues of CMR, Common Mode Rejection. It’s Physics, not snake oil..  My BPiT, Balanced Power isolation Transformer is rated at 10 times the wattage output than my equipment is drawing. So there is no shortage of power for transients, etc..  the improvement in lowered noise floor is dramatic, no need for overpriced, overrated PC’s that change or color the sound..

mikem,

Glad you enjoyed the recording. The baroque solo piano pieces up to about 15 min are subtle and contemplative. Some people who don’t understand this music might think that contemplative moods call for a laid back, dreamy state and would choose warm electronics for listening. However, to fully appreciate these subtle, sublime moments, it is desirable to choose revealing electronics, speakers, etc. The Prokofiev piano piece from 16 to 25 min is more acrid and dynamic. Overall, this recording is an excellent demonstration of the many-faceted qualities of the solo piano. Of course, the pianist is a superb artist.

If feasible, you would enjoy hearing the upcoming concerts in this hall in NYC as my guest. I marvel at opportunities I have had in comparing great recordings to the live venue, such as when I went to Stockholm and was in the small Stampen where a classic 1976 audiophile favorite recording was made, "Jazz at the Pawnshop."

@Belpat In that case since you only want SS, your choices become simpler, home audition each of the following and pick one:

Luxman 590 AXII - Lots of bloom and body, not as tight or grippy on bass control

Accuphase - I haven’t heard this, but usually people say it’s more bloomy and lush than Luxman

Gryphon Diablo 300 - Very dynamic and bold sound, but lack a bit of refinement, sometimes can be very raw and brash but huge bass slam

Boulder 866 - A good balance between dynamics, speed, authority and refinement, great everywhere but it doesn’t add artificial bloom or body, so cable matching might be important to make sure it’s not too lean on the Spendor which is already super fast.

And yes, 30W class A is enough for the Spendor, the Luxman will output higher into AB anyway.

The KRELL XD lineup is awesome. Last night I was listening until 2AM on my RAAL SR1a headphones with the KRELL K-300i integrated. I realized that the KRELL was the very best with these headphones, the most relaxing sound with bass and smoothness. I have tried about 5 different amps with them.

This morning I traded in a popular amp I was using for my headphones (in another room) for the a new KRELL Duo 125 XD. 

Thanks, Walter @ KRELL, for your advice yesterday. Love these XD amps.

@divertiti A huge thanks. This pretty much confirm I will start by home auditioning the Luxman and the Accuphase. The Diablo and the Boulder are very difficult to find in my area, probably 1 dealer for each in Canada.

Once again, I appreciate your input.

yyzsantabarbara,

I completely agree.   The Krell Theater 7 XD is the best home theater multi-channel amp I've had in my system, and I've had many, including a custom-upgraded Plinius Odeon 7.

Dave

Looks like people enjoy my commentary about gear more than interviews. YouTube algorithms don't lie. They said today's video slowed down the flow of the channel. 

On the other hand, I've received several emails with regards to my videos with OCD Mikey which essentially say he's not good for my channel. Hmm...  How do you all feel ?

I would agree Jay. Your commentary on gear is based on a wide set of experiences, and those of us who don't have as many reference points really appreciate those experiences coming through your commentary. Your neutrality and honesty is also very refreshing.

On the other hand, typically the interviews are with the representative of a single brand who have good intentions but invariably also some biases and commercial interests. This is doubly true if it's an interview with a brand that haven't gotten much exposure on your channel first, like Krell, which will end up a bit disjointed. I imagine it might have done better if it was Shunyata or MSB which were recent topics of conversation.

What might be more interesting is more collaborations and conversations with other prolific Youtube audiophiles or reviewers, those would do numbers.

Agree. Perhaps an open invitation to Agon, Wbf, ashark members to come on your channel would be interesting. Particularly around a specific subject, expertise or those that may be critical of your approach or views/reviews. Let them get on camera.

Re: Mikey. He is entertaining. i also respect his knowledge/experience. It is hard to imagine he is unbiased given his representations. Obviously. I trust your opinions more as unaffiliated. That has been your ethos. I think folks see through this pretty easily. Also, making blanket statements about something being superior based on one system in a moment in time, is obviously not conclusive and reeks of salesmanship.

But u stick to your truths in joint videos, we will all be watching. thank u

I have the D9.2 and am targeting the 590axii as well, or maybe the 509x or maybe the 595ase

@viber6 

Thank you for your very generous offer ! I would love to attend a concert as it’s been several years since I have been to one..  but unfortunately, I have some health issues that keep me from traveling, my hometown of NYC. haven’t been back in there in many years.  Thankfully, this hobby allows me to enjoy the experience of music in my home.  Thank you again for your offer ! 
Jazz at the pawnshop is one of my favorite live recordings..  Arne, Bengt and Lars 
Doing high Life is one of my all time favorite tracks.. That must have been a great live performance..  I love hearing the cash register in the background during that song..  A true live recording that brings you there, atmosphere and all..

@jays_audio_lab 

OCD Mikey is an interesting character… I enjoyed the Interaction between you two and the different aspects to which you each spoke to..  Mikey is a dealer and believes in his wares..  nothing wrong with that.. I take his bias accordingly.

You rush through equipment in a hurry to get to the next flavor of the month.. which is fine too, but you also gloss over the architecture and technical bits that are important to me..  OCD Mikey gets a bit more technical which I find useful.

different styles and equipment choices…. It’s all good..

mikem,

Like you, I love that High Life track--atmosphere, cash register, tinkling glasses, and immediacy of instruments.  Even though it is an analog recording with some tape hiss, the resolution is fabulous.  I roll my eyes when someone says about any component that "the noise floor is lowered"--what complete BS nonsense.  They should just talk about resolution and clarity, which are high in this Proprius LP despite significant noise.  They don't know anything about the noise floor unless they do technical measurements.

On that visit to Stockholm, I just looked in the window of the small club, Stampen where it was performed.  I couldn't go in the PM when they had other performances.  But I saw the tiny stage, about 7 feet square.  I had a similar great experience at Preservation Hall in New Orleans in the summer of 2005, right before Hurricane Katrina.  Preservation Hall is a mere small cave, literally, with a very live sound from the hard rocky cave surface.  The jazz group on that tiny stage is right in your face, with the crackling brass, banging percussive piano, growling string bass.  No stupid electronics and lousy PA speakers of most clubs, which certainly leads listeners to hate that type of live sound.

The stage in that live recording I posted is also tiny, with similar immediacy to the sound.  A cheap recording device was used, proving that great sound is not obtained from studios with expensive processing equipment and multiple poorly placed microphones.  All you need is a great small hall with simple close mike placement, as in this recording.  Let the rich snobs go to the famed Carnegie Hall, pay $500 for a good seat, and be seen in their elite social circles who go to Carnegie.  Better sound is heard for small scale music at this tiny place--Scorca Hall in The National Opera Center, 330 7th Ave between 28th and 29th Streets.

Jay,

Mikey still only said that something was "better" without real analysis of the sound.  Your objectivity is much more informative.  Still, his videos on simple mods of Maggies and such are interesting.  And audio boxing matches between high visibility guys like both of you are entertaining.

Viber said, “the common meaning of "synergy" as used here, is some magical combination of bite and warmth.”

Wrong. WC and everyone else who has used the term use it exactly as it was intended, ie to mean a good pairing that produces sound to his liking. 
There is no suggestion that synergy has anything to do with warmth. 
 

Viber putting words in WC’s mouth based on his personal sonic biases. It’s not a crime, but it is misleading 

@kren0006,
I agree about the term 'synergy'.  To me, synergy means all components and speakers compliment each other together producing an overall balanced, pleasing sound.  I believe synergy also involves the interaction between the components, speakers and room.  Home audio is so subjective,  system synergy to one person might not please another.

As far as Mikey goes, it was fun while it lasted.  His subtle but constant promoting of the products he sells vs your unbiased approach was clearly evident. 

Actually, I don't think of Mikey's commentary as an intentional promoting of the products he sells - although, it certainly does promote those products. 

I think Mikey has a specific listening preference that passionately drives him to products that satisfy that preference.  From there, he loudly exclaims those products that are conducive to that listening preference.

I believe he was "trying" to be fair in his descriptions, and he mentioned that if you want to hear every little microscopic item and each in its own area of space, then go with the MSB.  If musical as a whole is of interest, he felt the Playback Designs was way better. 

I don't see an issue with having a specific listening preference, finding products that are conducive to that preference, and then being a passionate representative for those products.

Overall, I think it's nice to have folks with different listening preferences comment on the same system.

Dave

Dave I respect your opinion but completely disagree.  Mikey described the MSB DAC as "so excruciatingly detailed, it is completely analytical and is devoid of soul".  He goes on to say "MSB in their zele to be the most expensive DAC on the planet has gone over the line into an area that I consider parody". "After my experience with MSB's 80k DAC I will now coin them MSB (Most Significant Bitch)"......"So if you would like something that does not sound musical that analyzes everything as an analysis machine then buy MSB.  If you want something musical, you're into music and that's why you have a hifi system then buy then use Playback Designs".

Dave, you said   "I believe he was trying to be fair in his descriptions"

Trying to be fair?  Really?  He ripped MSB.  Maybe you should go back and view his fair and unintentional promoting of the DAC he sells.

No, kren and ron.  Although the dictionary definition of "synergy" means the whole being greater than the sum of parts, in common practical audio usage, as well as from Jay, it means a happy marriage of raw detail and "pleasing" warmth.  Warm tube preamps are mated with accurate SS amps, warm cables are mated with accurate electronics, warm amps are mated with accurate speakers, etc.  Jay has accurate dynamic speakers, the XLF, but he is not completely happy with their accurate sound, so he likes the tubes which soften the XLF sound.  But lately, he is back to the accurate 725 preamp and his new accurate mono SS amps.  Nothing wrong with Jay's changing preferences as he figures out what he really wants, which takes time and living with your choices.

Those who believe in some type of synergy should be honest and admit that you can never have everything you want.  The synergy is not necessarily better, even to that person.  He just makes his choices which still involve compromises.  Warm components reduce clarity by subtracting information.  These listeners claim that the warm components yield more beauty, but mikem and I know that real beauty comes from greater understanding of the music itself from higher accuracy/resolution.  

Does anyone really think a woman whose hair is messy is more beautiful than when she carefully does her hair to reveal more detail and delicacy?  At my age, I look younger and better after a nice shave than a few days later.  Even Jay is clean shaven in his videos and unquestionably must look better that way also. "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" is only partially valid.  Nobody would claim that the physical beauty of an unfortunate, deformed person is equal to that of a movie star although this is a different subject than the "beauty" of character in the handicapped person who has overcome his hardships.

@viber6 

@kren0006 

Kren wrote in regards to what Viber said, “the common meaning of "synergy" as used here, is some magical combination of bite and warmth. "Wrong” I also, as well as Ron do not understand Synergy to consist of bite and warmth and I'm sure that Jay does not either. Synergy is just that combination of gear and wire that brings the sound that suits one's personal preference. We ALL have our own personal preference. Let's stop with the implied conversation that there is or probably ever  will be one true correct music reproduction. For each of us, it is what makes us feel good, what envelopes us, when we listen to music. Some like detail more, some less; some like warmth more, some less. Find your personal preference and understand that it is just that, YOURS (it is not universal - there is no wrong or right).

Well we can agree to disagree, Viber, but it seems that once again everyone else is agreeing with me and disagreeing with you. Synergy just means better than the sum of it’s parts, as you mention, and that’s how WC always uses it and everyone else here that I’ve seen.

Nobody uses it to mean a warm sounding component. If that were true, WC would have said McIntosh had great symmetry in any pairing.

Almost always when WC uses the term, he does so when he is somewhat surprised that a given combination is as good as it turns out to be.  Exactly as the term is intended (better than the sum of parts because of especially good pairing traits)

Ron17, I also criticize his assessment of MSB.  No, I never heard either MSB or Playback Designs in my system, but my criticism is that he doesn't understand the sound of live, unamplified music.  He mainly listens to rock/pop, and has only a rudimentary knowledge of classical music.  Euphonic warmth is his preference.  There is no such thing as too much excruciating detail.  Classical music is much more complex and detailed than any songs he listens to, and full understanding of classical music requires hearing as much detail as possible.  From Jay's videos, MSB is detailed and natural to my ears.