My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series NAD M25 PARASOUND HALO PARASOUND CLASSIC KRELL TAS KRELL KAV 500 KRELL CHORUS ROTEL RMB 1095 CLASSE CT 5300 CLASSE CA 2200 CLASSE CA 5200 MCINTOSH MC 205 CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7 OUTLAW AUDIO 755 LEXICON RX7 PASS LABS XA 30.8 BUTLER AUDIO 5150 ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer. My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes) Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp. Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either. Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Good point. Could very well be the Boulder amp. But he didn’t like the earlier Boulder amp (I think it made his "worst of" list) so would be a bit surprising to go there again??
Plus he’s said pre-Mephisto intro he couldn’t imagine improving on what he expected Mephisto to be. Unless he’s now decided that Mephisto ain’t gonna get him to what he expected to be the summit.
My guess is a matching Boulder amp so Jay can have an all Boulder vs all Gryphon top-shelf comparison, nowhere else but here will that heavyweight contest exist.
Jay, Over the weekend, I saw several SF Audio Society presentations, two of which were by Stereophile writers. I knew some “long-term” evaluations samples were sent to reviewers. I was shocked / disappointed to learn that, even within Sterophile, the majority of their “reference” system were provided to them versus items they had purchased. I wanted to thank you for the time and expense you have taken, especially at this end of the market. Go ahead and pass on this question if you wish. I’m curios as to your day-job which affords you this budget. Anyway, thanks again, and keep fighting the good fight!
I bet we all are curious what Jay's day job is. But that someone asked in the way that Jay shared is unfathomable. As Ron said above, some things should just remain private.
Thank you Ron and Pokey. By the way, I wasn't planning to answer my last post with regards to my job. I was only sharing with you the email so you all could hopefully focus on what was said about reviewers and not my day job lol. I should have deleted that part out of the email.
As I know you were not planning to answer the "day job" question, nor would I or almost any other poster ever ask you what it is
- apparently a few do not have the reserve
. At first, I thought you should have deleted that part of the email but then thought it honest of you to share that bit. This thread should not ever be about professional careers or pay check size, but rather about gear and the music. Thanks for taking us along as always Jay.
@tjassoc
I've thought it might be the Alexx for some time. However, now I wonder if Jay may want to try another speaker brand altogether. I can tell you that the Alexx, IMHO, kills the Alexia 2. I've plenty of experience with both, though only at my local dealer and not at home.
pokey77 - no, no, no - say the Alexxs are just bigger. I didn't listen to the Alexx last time I visited my dealer (Innovative Audio / Video). If I listen to them, I'll eventually get them and I can't afford them (our oldest son is in college and his 2 siblings to follow). I'm reaching for the Alexia II's. Yes - they just bigger, you say it. Jay - you say it too. I'm going to go mad, absolutely mad - what's sanity? $100k for speakers????
Yes, they indeed are much larger. Alexx is just plain better -Alexx are $109k. Be of good cheer, according to my dealer, the Alexx will soon be replaced so you should see a few good deals on this amazing speaker in the near future.
BTW, thank you for looking out for your children first!
@speedbump6
I certainly get your statement. I spent 10X more on my current system than on the last. And I can’t express how much happier I am with my current system - I can listen all day it’s that good.
Here is a quote from a review of a pair of Gryphons, Essence pre/power that sheds light on what Jay is hearing with the Pandora/Mephisto combo, it says polite dinner jazz is elevated to involving instead of snoozing; HiFi+ "Let’s talk about what’s wrong with the Essence amps: nothing. Let me
expand on that a bit: N-O-T-H-I-N-G. Yes, an amp that takes 45 minutes to
run from ‘good’ to ‘awesome’ every time you turn it on might be a turn-off to
seekers of instant gratification and there are going to be people who will be
willing to trade some aspects of the overall sonic gestalt for overstated or even
exaggerated performance elsewhere. And of those latter types, the people who
seem attracted to a very mellow, laid-back-to-the-point-of-unconsciousness,
soft-edged dinner jazz presentation might find the expressive, powerful and
upfront Essence too far in the other direction. On the other hand, the rest of us
will find the Essence copes with audiophile dinner jazz extremely well, and as
an added bonus it loses its stultifying, Rohypnol effect."
Maybe I'll be proven wrong but that doesn't sound like Wilson Alexx to me, and doesn't sound like a Wilson speaker. So I still think the Alexia 2 are gone already.
I'm still guessing some Focal or Magico, like I did earlier.
I love it. BIG BIG improvement--brilliant clarity and detail across the freq range, most notably in upper midrange and HF. I don't know what it is--Boulder preamp/amp, or new speaker. My guess is the speaker, although Boulder could contribute.
You can go big, but I have demonstrated similar types of improvements just boosting HF with my modest Rane EQ. Anyone who ridicules this statement--that's their loss for not trying EQ.
The reveals are much more fun when they are sprang on us out of the blue though, like the 20.7 was. That was frickin’ awesome.
This waiting kinda sucks, gotta be honest. Kinda like that amp you kept under the Pass cover forever. Ended up being a big letdown. Don't even remember what it was...
Trust me...this ain’t a let down...it’s my biggest upgrade ever...that statement should tell you it can’t be a letdown. Do you hear a letdown on the video... Except for the same 3-4 disney characters that give thumbs down on my videos, it is starting to gain a lot of likes very early. Also, the last song does not sound great. I did this ON PURPOSE so you can easily hear how inferior it is to the rest. That is what a high resolving system should be able to do.
The video sounds amazing. everything has settled down and the horses are working as a Team! the scale, the smoothness. it sounds lower resolution than previously in some ways but i think maybe that's because there is a degree of synergy on display that we have not seen previously.
the first song brings some bass in and you can hear it very nearly overloads the room in a way i have not heard there before.
the amplification is just strain free here i think so whatever it is, i really like it.
Maybe... Waaaay too many possibilities to be 100% sure. You can just sit tight and wait for me to unveil the component. Many positive comments on my YouTube channel.
I’ve never heard a Magico speaker so I wouldn’t know what it sounds like. But I really didn’t think the video sounded like either Wilson or Focal, so I guess that defaults me to thinking Magico also.
But trying to listen to any presentation, even blinded in person, and to pick from the endless universe of speakers and call it right is really hard. Multiply that by many times over YT.
Reason I said Magico or Focal only based on WC comments over last month and trying to read between lines. Could be way off. Before video I would have thought Focal more likely than Magico. WC seemed to like the last Focal pretty well, they have Be tweeters which he has commented favorably on, and he grouped Focal with Constellation, Wilson, Gryphon, and other higher end brands, even though most of Focals lineup is under $10k (or at least they have many, many speakers under $10k).
So yeah. My sleeper guess, if not Magico or Focal, would be Rockport.
Usually when WC is so confident that something is an upgrade, it means he is going back to a brand he has had before (that's how I knew most recent amp was Mephisto - that was only way he'd have been so confident it would beat Collosseum). So under that logic this is probably Alexx or whatever lands above Alexx on Wilson tree; or the top Focal, six figures.
Very good analysis of me above. i actually applaud you for what you said about what led me to buy the Mephisto because you were 100% correct. A lot of people fail to grasp that about me. I am actually "studying" behind the scenes a lot of future gear which is what helps me decide on future purchases. i hardly ever ever go backwards unless i am looking for cheaper offerings for review (think Magnepan 20.7).
When the thread has over 13k posts, it is easy to recognize trends : )
Reason I was able to call the 20.7 move was because WC reaction to 3.7i was so initially positive, with the caveats of not enough bass, and pretty easy jump for WC to go from 3.7 to 20.7 to see how much of 3.7i deficiencies the 20.7 could fix.
WC you imply "cheaper offerings for review...." mean sonically not as good but in many years of hearing expensive gear sometimes I've personally preferred less expensive gear to more pricey gear. Yes very expensive gear can sound FABULOUS but just wanted some clarification. Do you honestly believe audio gear has to be $$$$$ to sound better than $$ gear? As just one example I usually prefer a 2 or 3 way speaker to a 4 or 5 way for it's clarity. Yes bigger will play louder but...well hope you know what I'm trying to say.
WC and everyone sometimes offhandedly makes a statement like that but most know it is not an absolute. He's only been asked that question 5000 times and clarified it, haha.
@rsf507 I know exactly what you're trying to say. Thank you for articulating things so well. You presented your point and stayed in your lane. I respect that.
Nice new Focal Utopia Stella Evo. Can't wait to hear where you can take this. As excited as you are, and the fact you listened for five hours and went to bed at nearly 4AM, I'd imagine very far. Have as much fun as you can and keep taking us along on the journey.
I’m gonna call that another successful prognostication! Although the vid yesterday threw me didn’t sound like Focal but I’ve never heard anything this far up their line. Congrats.
Thank you. You aren’t the only person who has not heard this speaker. I believe there are only like 9-10 total pairs of stella EVO in the United States at the moment. At this price point, there are less and less people with this kind of equipment. I’m sure there aren’t a ton of ALEXX owners out there either. I plan to ride with this speaker for as long as I can. Maybe Alexx 2 could be its replacement? You never know... I was never impressed with my one on one time with the ALEXX. I always felt like the bass was so overwhelming and that made me worry A LOT.
Congratulations Jay, those big speakers can work well in your room. My brother has a pair of regular Utopia without all the fancy adjustments in a tiny room, same driver size and configuration, and it sounds great !
My sense is they currently sound a little underweighted in bass, but you mentioned they are rattling the light fixtures so maybe it just didn’t come thru on that video or maybe you already made some bass adjustments since that video.
Reason the vid didn’t sound like Focal to me wasn’t that reason tho. Rather, this tweeter sounds much more refined here than any previous Focal tweeter I have heard, which I guess isn’t surprising given the price tier here (not exactly Sopra/Kanta level haha).
These are $140k speakers...not even my focal Scala Evo had this type of refinement in the tweeter. Wanna know an interesting FACT?? My Wilson Alexia 2 were brighter....yep...shocking but it is the truth.
Here are a few things that are interesting thus far about the Stella EVO:
Air, presence, extension from top to bottom & speed that was marginally present in the Alexia 2
EVERYTHING sounds incredible
Bad recordings are easily heard through the speaker, but it does not punish you. You can clearly hear when t is an inferior recording, but it does not let you feel "road rash" in your ears
Incredible disappearing act and yet it is a huge speaker
FACT: This is a far more relaxed sounding speaker than my Alexia 2 was.
When you turn up the volume, the sound expands and it does not come at you in the same way that Wilson speakers do.
This huge speaker images much better than the Alexia 2. I actually WILL SAY that in my experience, Beryllium tweeters tend to image better than soft-dome.
Although visually they might look alike, the tweeters in the Scala EVO and Stella EVO sound so different. The Stella’s tweeter sound more refined, more delicate, less abrasive yet it digs deeper into the recording
Wilson Audio (generally speaking) tends to have a midrange that pops off the speaker, but that can sound "shouty" at times especially when not using the right cables. This is not the case with the focal’s midrange. Not once have i felt any sort of "ouch turn it down" feeling which i did a few times with Wilson
Since i tend to listen loud at times, no other speaker that i have personally owned has made me feel SO COMFORTABLE at loud volume.
The size and weight of the speaker WILL MAKE YOU not want to go through the hassle of having to sell it. It is indeed a monster of a speaker.
I hate buying a speaker of this price and have no manuals, no clear instructions on the adjustments on the back. I guess it is assumed that if you are at this level then you should know what you are doing? (not sure)
Focal -in general- have a sound that is somewhere between Wilson & Magico. Not as hyper-detailed and analytical as Magico , but more detailed than Wilson.
Plethora of adjustments that make you so excited to see the endless possibilities.
The woofers stop much faster than any other speaker i have owned. It could be the servo-control that acts as a "vice grip" clamping down the woofers when it needs to.
Here is one interesting fact that youtube sent me:
My last video has had the most views in less than 24 hours than any other video i have ever uploaded. This seems to indicate that people are certainly tuning in to see my madness and that the Focal Stella have been very well-received.
Jay, have you had a chance to play around with the crossover adjustments and settings for the electromagnets power supply ? Do the cranking and subsequent changing of driver positioning make a large difference in your room, or are they gimmicks ?
I threw the speakers in the room when I got them, felt I had too much bass and went to these magnets and lowered the settings on them and it was a massive difference. Also, I can take it down even further by using the internal settings behind the speaker. This is insane.
They are very cool indeed ! I have found adjustable crossover setting and separate bass level settings crucial in my own setup, but adjusting the sensitivity of a electromagnetic driver just takes it to another level !
bc the bass is "overwhelming" with the Alexx ;) Even JA said so in his measurements review. have a friend who had them for a few years and have heard them several times (he now has Chronosonic).
good luck with the Focals! easier to drive too. work well with tubes
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