great talk video i thought WC. really demonstrating to us all how synergy works (informed trial and error really) and the tremendous expenses, outside of component cost, in making a component sing as part of a system.
his work now is a further refinement of this lesson, which is that at a certain level, the brand has probably ironed out a synergy for you.
to me what is very interesting is that really integrated amps are more attractive these days as they reduce cable expenditure (IC and PC) whilst giving you that immediate pre/power synergy. lets one play at a level they may not be able to otherwise.
i certainly realise now i cannot (in immediate future anyway) afford gryphon class a. as whilst i might be able to afford an essence for example, i cannot then afford the pre and the cables i'd want to hook it up with. |
WC it is great that you do this. congratulations on your stamina too!
also i am afraid i don't follow what that list means. that you are going to go through that list of amplifiers over the next period of time? i do hope so.
also i feel like you have opinions on Essence but can't recall you having one yet (I thought only Coliseum in fact from Gryphon).
i really like your videos.
you change alot of stuff but focus on the amplifier principally here. i recently changed my amplifier (above 300 hz) and it struck me that it was a very significant change (good) relative to various tweaking i've been doing (cables, isolation etc) and yet actually less costly.
what do you reckon. with your knowledge now would you take a good amplifier and get all the cables and power right or would you prefer a better amplifier and generic cheap cables. which one makes a bigger difference?
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WC i also wish you would go and get the Mephisto's. Surely a shoot out between Essence and Mephisto is too much to ask for but also the Internet's greatest wish. Hard to imagine how the Essence could fail to impress and then harder to imagine what the Mephisto does better? |
Based on what Jay showed us last night (youtube) it seems a bit nuts to my mind to suggest a Bryston (any model) would sound like anything other than a sterile bucket of sh** compared to the Mephisto.
i personally thought last night's sound was knocking on door of 118/ref6se sound re: clarity but sounded overall better due to depth of presentation (i think 118's just a bit "2d" in presentation). like i think Jay is already all caught up. and we have:
-pre-amplifier
-cables
-burn in
yet to nail down.
Online, people seem to indicate strong synergies with Gryphon cables and you know this guy is getting a decent pre-amp in (Pandora is my guess). So it is truly exciting to think where this might end up.
Exciting times!
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the Boulder sounds amazing. |
i am here for further owner observations re: home amplification and audio systems.
let's go Jay! |
i think WC is involved in is more than some dry rational and reasonable process of selecting his preferred musical components/system. i think we need only observe WC's restless passion for this calling to know that deep motivations stir within.
so when WC is crestfallen that Mephisto is not a solid a step toward a yet to be experienced Nirvana, but perhaps in fact is an indication that he's already "peaked", surely this is understandable. (not to mention practical/financial issue of "tweaking" a Mephisto - big undertaking).
to be here and watch this man reassemble his determination and move forward is wonderful. and i think it must be heartening WC, that in the videos i have heard so far, the Gryphon's potential at least is evident. within weeks it will be making the Merrill Ref6se combo (which sounds amazing) sound comparatively flat i think. |
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very much looking froward to hearing the next iteration of Mephisto WC. really want to hear what those cables have done. |
i'm surprised shunyata never comes up in these discussions. especially the new cords they've come out with.
also Jay why resting the gryphon? i thought you'd be burning it in if anything. are you trying to make it last? |
kren0006 in full sherlock holmes mode and i love it. his theory looks valid. i remember hearing WC only very recently stating how the deal hadn't happened (it was in the midst of a 34 min spiel on youtube so easy to miss) re: alexx and there was a hint of energy in him saying that - like he was a bit pissed about it.
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congratulations on the achievement of a lifetime Jay. via youtube the power, control and delicacy are crystal clear. can't wait to hear more about your listening experience with the Essence. can't wait for further mephisto videos. the way a great amplifier utterly transforms a system is a wonderful feeling. i hope you don't regret sharing it. but thankyou for sharing it. :-) |
the merrill on the video sounds absolutely amazing. as i indicated on YT i also thought the Fyne setup with Essence was wonderful.
merrill sounded quick, delicate and liquid. i thought the Fyne's sounded like they were moving air around a bit more which i like. both sounded quite tremendous though. |
i think techno is being quite unpleasant and should cool it. leave WC alone man!
WC i just listened to the latest Mephisto video. i left a comment and it mirrors what you've said in here. the video shows the extraordinary promise of that amplifier. it would be nice to have a recording of it playing one of the songs from Aug 22nd Merill / ref 6 outing. i think one can already hear a "thickening" relative to beautiful Merrill setup. |
i'm speculating the pre is a Pandora. I guess we will see. i'm looking forward to the first piece of the puzzle here, the pre-amp (although that is in a race with burn in i dare say). what we need is some quiet and so far it seems to me there has been a little fuzz.
i was interested to read that the Pandora has all sorts of emphasis on isolation and noise reduction. as in, Gryphon themselves struggled with what you are struggling with WC, i.e. noise.
this corresponds with WC's observations of Mephisto to date and what we can hear in the videos, i.e. the Mephisto can bear no fuzz in the input - it will amplify it.
i have heard of people using the Robert Koda pre-amp with it as well as the MSB Dac (couple of people loved that) as well as the CH Pre-amplifier (although that duo sounds orchestra orientated). |
Slightly off topic but hopefully an acceptable digression Jay - just wondering techno if you own the Bryston model you recommend here or have heard it etc? I guess I am wondering why you think it will be a match for the Mephisto. Or is it more that you think it will be difficult to distinguish which is which in a blind test?
Or is it your contention that generally it is difficult to distinguish various amplifiers from each other in a blind test?
I reckon the best thing about this thread is that Jay actually listens to this stuff and takes us along with him on the subjective journey. A blind test would be awesome since it would add a few more data points to the whole exercise. Be great if you could get a few people in the room and facilitate it for Jay so that it truly is blind.
I personally don't think Blind tests are the be all and end all but no doubt it would be interesting to see what happens.
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for those who think Gryphon manipulates things in order to sell cable I think you are missing the nature of Mephisto. this is not some built to a price point product designed to torture people until they pony up for branded cables. it is the pointy pointy pointy end of what is possible and has been done re: stereo amplification. something like one in 1,000,000 amps sold will be a Mephisto. if it needs cable matching that's not a design contrivance I suspect but rather a fact of life when one is at the pointy pointy end of things.
put it this way, all amps do better with cable matching. Mephistos ultra resolution makes that issue that much more important. I am looking forward to hearing this Jay. |
techno why don't you give it a rest man. WC is an enthusiast and a flesh and blood man putting on a show for us. can't we show him some respect even as we forthrightly discuss matters of mutual interest? |
hi. sorry but what is being referred to above? not following. would like to. |
Jay is the CHEF. he's the biggest cook in audiophilia today, pulling together things we don't all cook with, because too expensive. black truffles. russian caviar etc.
all Jay the CHEF is saying right now is, "when Rasmussen with all the Michelin stars, says "gryphon mephisto works with x and y", you might want to pay attention. because mixing and matching as you randomly see fit might cost you alot of money".
think of it as a good place to start. Jay has explicitly said this on his last video.
once he has it largely as the maker intended and can hear what was intended, then he can go and try different stuff. we will learn from this work too! what an opportunity!
it is regrettable i believe that people come here and tear at Jay as he simply offers hobbyists an insight into what's possible. what a thankless task for him. and to then have the thread dominated by blowhards and pissants? thankfully Jay doesn't have a mean bone in his body it seems and thick skin to boot. sometimes it is his tolerance for boredom i am more worried about (and his bank balance!).
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also please be amused by this little snippet from an earlier model Jay! (and certainly not having a go - i just spent major $ on an ethernet cable!)
but oh how the tables have turned :-)
21st April 2017
"I agree. i have tried other high end brands and i honestly can't hear a difference. To me, spending a lot of money on cables is really a big mistake. First off, when you try to sell them after you are done with them, you will take a bath trying to sell them. You will be lucky if you can recuperate 25% of the value. That said, there are plenty of people who spend 5,000 dollars on a power cord! which i think is ridiculous. "
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to me this thread is not just about WC's stereo. it is about modern consumer culture, marketing and technical performance.
WC by side by siding so many high end components (as far as his budget allows him anyway) is smashing away the mirrors and letting us see how things "really" are (not perfectly sure but to an extent not achieved elsewhere that i know of).
we're also seeing how important it is to match things - synergy!
i would appreciate it if thread posts could relate more to WC and encouraging and supporting him.
i think at the point anyone is writing multiple lengthy posts about their own system they are starting to be entirely off the thread topic (which is about WC's experiences) and frankly cannibalising energy which is here for WC. |
Sounds wonderful WC. If ARC Ref 6se plus 118's was the last high point, I do feel Christina plus Mephisto now eclipses it for a super refined audiophile presentation. Arguably there is a vibrancy to each note in the Mephisto presentation that is not present in the overall 118 presentation. I must admit though that I think I prefer the 118 presentation at this time simply because the Mephisto is a little overwhelming (although I am sure I will get used to it better as i hear it more).
The sheer resolution of the Mephisto system sort of is challenging and cerebral whereas that Arc plus Merrill sound just delighted in a more visceral way I feel.
Thank goodness some decent speakers are back! I really like these and think they are a great match with these high res hifi components.
As i indicate on the YT comments though, it almost makes one tremble at what might be achieved when Pandora is up and running at full strength. The challenge with the Mephisto setup I imagine is to let the sound wash over you when the resolution is so high. I am sure that is much easier for you WC than it is for us the virtual audience.
I played your latest video thru my headphones first and then my system and was better able to feel what the Mephisto is doing via the latter. Just that extraordinary high res atmosphere it creates which music comes out of. My system is pretty optimised for YT but still, amazing what is coming thru.
Great work WC. A peak that may not be surpassed for some time approaches! |
WC. i love big amps and i like having a stack of them (i bi-wire speakers).
when i’ve run class D i have simultaneously enjoyed the low heat and ease but also felt "let down" by the lack of mass and heft.
a favourite amp of mine (looks wise as well as sound wise) was one you have owned, the plinius SA-100 mk2. i currently have 2 bryston 4b sst and i love their utilitarian appearance.
if music / art is partially about how we feel, is it not valid to want the components appearance as well as performance to add to how we feel, positively?
what is it about expensive big amp ownership that rocks so hard do you think? |
the closer WC gets to audio perfection the worse the trolls. "experts" feel their authority threatened by empiricists i'd reckon.
love the Boulder Jay. it looks amazing. after reading a review of the integrated 866 one understands how seriously they treat noise and the modularity of the pre really shows that.
is it much noisier than the Pandora?
i'm glad that youtube is working out as a way for you. you are doing something quite unique i believe and something that i personally find very valuable. you deserve some energy for it if nothing else! |
great video WC. i like the component break down at the start. third song freaks me out. the resolution of the Mephisto seems evident at song start as the vocal is so projected, large and sort of flickering in and out almost of solidity.
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I emphatically agree with the need for a pre-amp and would say even for lower level listening the same thing happens - you feel like your head got cooked. Pre-amplifiers are a gift to the audiophile and are a must have. I too did once believe that less was more and purity was the goal, until I heard my DAC straight to amplifier and realised I liked what the pre-amp does (I still think less is more, but pre-amp is a must include, like speakers).
Since then I have had exactly one good pre-amp (Nagra PL-L), it astonishes what it does to music, the detail it extracts.
IMO all of it is artifice and pretend and the pre-amp helps to make that illusion beautiful. DAC straight is detail freak land for my tastes. I thought I wanted it. I got it. The i realised it was not a good place for me to be.
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The video sounds amazing. everything has settled down and the horses are working as a Team! the scale, the smoothness. it sounds lower resolution than previously in some ways but i think maybe that's because there is a degree of synergy on display that we have not seen previously.
the first song brings some bass in and you can hear it very nearly overloads the room in a way i have not heard there before.
the amplification is just strain free here i think so whatever it is, i really like it. |
i just read a whole page that sometimes referenced a comparison of tekton's and wilson but never saw the actual comparison of tekton's and wilson. did it get deleted? what were speedbump's thoughts? |
@julie_priest bit some of the amps were amazing (merrill, luxman, pass) and most can be found second hand for a fraction of new. i don't think the OP's wandering eye is a reflection of a "lack". i believe it to be no criticism to guess that the OP could find the best amp that ever existed and it would still be up for sale at some point and i think that goes for many people on this forum (me included for sure).
that said currently WC swears eternal love for Mephisto :-)
i hope you don't mind me making a comment about an amp that would suit dynaudio 40's but i have been learning a bit lately and so i wanted to just point out that the dynaudio is quite an inefficient speaker (and less efficient than the rating given its impedance is probably down at 2 ohm in bass). for 2 ohm it will be an 80 dB speaker.
so you want some grunt!
i had never owned a "seriously" powerful power amp until recently so i bought a bryston 4bsst (not too heavy, not too hot, people seem to say that are ok) 2nd hand and it absolutely amazed me. with speakers like dynaudio - there is no such thing as too much power. they will sound so great with 300W plus. |
i would take neither as i couldn't afford appropriate peripherals including amplification. i fall into the category of people who might be able to afford a piece of the puzzle if i went nuts, but cannot really afford to play at such a level.
i think the high power high resolution game, as WC is capably demonstrating, is very responsive to money and mass and volume (room, speakers, components). and what i mean is you spend money it gets better. this is why my instincts were alarmed and told me to stay out of hi-fi when i started fussing with IEMs four years ago; but here we are. a whole bunch of power cords and wattage and pretty much penniless :-) |
no he is saying the mephisto and pandora has been heard before. more nastiness i believe. not nice.
pls techno_dude can we not keep it nice? |
Jay would you please characterise the current sound versus say the glory days of ARC6se and Merrill Audio. I'm not asking which is "better". Just how it is different for you. Or is it not a different thing but just the same thing and more of it / better now with Gryphon etc. |
i agree techno. one aspect of WC's journey which has made an impression on me is that the big power/big direct driver game is a fearsome death match i don't necessarily want to be involved in (anymore - i did have a go for a while, albeit at a very limited scale)
i absolutely love watching WC do this and i am astounded at some of the results. WC keeps reminding us seeing this stuff like this is unusual. I couldn't agree more.
Are Synergistic Research risking anything with this current trial? I thought some of the youtube comments and observations regarding an upper frequency shift being characteristic of SR stuff were a bit interesting. how often is such stuff presented in a comparison where you've got the Alexx shining its big light on what SR does. and then the comparison with Gryphon cables will also be an interesting data point.
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both amplifiers looked quite extraordinary albeit i'd say the Gryphon the far more traditional given the large capacitors crammed into that far from small space. the finish on the exterior of the Boulder makes them objet d'art in my opinion. absolutely beautiful. and given they aren't hot they really do become beautiful functional art for your room.
looking at the finish and the interior layout the Boulder really does look like it comes from another world.
i think it a shame Jay if the comparison becomes which one deals with not having isolation better. i implore you to leave the gryphon on the stand and save your back. who gives a rats arse if some unappeasable people bang on about it.
i think changing power cords is also a sub-optimal thing to do because things do settle in a system and by stirring it up once again your loyal listening audience is listening to a less beautiful sound. for some a/b comparison i just don't think it is worth it WC.
what if the idea was "optimisation". you just make each one play as good as you can make it play. i am sure we will still get a sense of where the comparison is at.
thanks for doing this. it is pretty amazing. i hope your brain doesn't freak out when it realises there is no higher place to go and no more endorphins to come from new amp deliveries :-) |
i'd love to see WC with some Audio Note an-e speakers and king ka-101 pro el84 int amp. plus a turntable of course. see what he thinks about a modern take on SET/horn type thing (not suggesting horns but high efficiency speakers - i know how much Jay hates horns). |
great comparison video. very enjoyable and as you say Jay quite unique. well done and thankyou.
Merry Christmas one and all
p.s. Gryphon for mine :-) |
if you are looking for a bit of a change buy a technics sl1200gr and a $40 buck phono stage from radioshack. for like $2k USD try vinyl. just for a laugh. just for a change?
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