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My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
Momentum s250 review https://youtu.be/a6Np7Xcozo4 Please subscribe. There will be no more links coming from me anymore. |
klh007 and lissnr, At Steve's house when I heard an older GTA playing a very dynamic piece by Rimsky Korsakoff, even with the subs disconnected, there was a lot of power in the bass. Then with the subs on, there wasn't much difference. This illustrates that for most classical music, the panels alone are sufficient, although there are certain rare pieces that could use the subs. This is more applicable to rock. In order to get the most precision and detail, the midpoint of the panels should be aimed to the listener's head. The narrow HF ribbon has excellent dispersion, but any panel wider than about 4 inches will exhibit poor dispersion of upper midrange and higher freq. The GTA can be enjoyed by a few listeners sitting on a couch or standing, but the center listener will get the most profound experience, a big difference. I heard the original large Apogee and several later models. Due to the large width of the main panels, there is rolloff of HF, compared to GTA. Apogee smoothness is nice, but the GTA offers that, PLUS more snap/sparkle in HF without harshness. |
WC, While you are waiting for the other JC1+ to arrive and break in, please do the comparison review of the Gryphon with Merrill 118. Fortunately, you don't have a Gryphon preamp and can't do a review of Merrill package vs Gryphon package, so you can do this with any other preamp. Christine would be my choice. You got my Merrill 114 evaluation, now let's hear your 118/Gryphon comparison. Also, how much does the 118 vary in sound with its settings of fast, medium, slow? Choose the fast setting to see if the 118 can unseat the Gryphon at the top. |
Easy. Gryphon smokes 118. I think we’ve heard enough of Gryphon last 2-3 months to know that outcome. Just go watch some of the old videos. Dag rating doesn’t really seem consistent with its performance in head to heads over the last month. I am honestly having trouble remembering even a single video shootout where Dag was judged the consensus winner. With the rating it was given, i’d have expected just the opposite. As just latest example, I think most preferred the class D Merrill setup to the Dag even with Dag costing probably nearly double when preamps and stand factored in. If i’m wrong about that please point me to such a shootout where Dag was the consensus winner in a shootout. |
When you sit in front of both amps for more than the 5 min of playtime, you begin to understand what the dag does better. There are components that don’t quite "talk" to you in 5 min playtime. Living with a component makes you understand its strengths and weaknesses. If you sat here for a few hours and listened to both then it will be easier to gauge the performance. The smoothness of the dag is more polished BUT it seems to have more synergy with Wilson than with just about any other speaker brand.( It is a gut feeling though) Lastly, keep in mind that at the end of the day and based on the ratings, I am basically saying the dag is 5% better than the simaudio and 6% better than luxman. You are paying 12k and 15k more respectively speaking for this improvement and some people will pay it. No question about it. Ps. Jc1+ arrived today and the ref6se will be here Tuesday. I want to try this pairing badly. Many of you are seriously interested in hearing my thoughts on these amps because they cost pretty much the same as a stereo simaudio or luxman. Some are wondering if these monos are actually A BETTER purchase because you are getting monos instead of a single amp. Will that be the case? I am extremely curious to find out. |
Fair enough, that makes sense. I was thinking a couple of possibilities were that the videos didn’t fully convey the Dag advantages or maybe you just really liked the Dags more generally than majority of viewers based on videos. Either of those could have also explained it but I’ll buy your reasoning of more time. Thx |
WC said it best "When you sit in front of both amps for more than the 5 min of playtime, you begin to understand what the dag does better...." Have to agree that it takes more than the 5 minute Utube videos to understand the differences one hears between any of these components especially thru iPads or any such device which is why I've personally stopped viewing these shootouts. I much prefer hearing from WC his thoughts after he's had much time with each piece of gear. |
WC, Although I haven't personally heard the Dag, my experience with Merrill is that it seems to have everything you want. Live unamplified music has smoothness and snap/sparkle in a combination that eludes all systems, but of all the amps you have had, the 118 seems closest to that ideal. Only you know if the Gryphon is even better. I like your quantitative rating system that complements your written prose, so let's see how the 118 and Gryphon rate. |
Parasound JC1+ are powered on as of 10 min ago driving the Magnepan 20.7s. Initial impressions: (cold amplifiers) 1. Someone turned on the subwoofers in my room? 2. Visceral presentation from the Magnepan 3. High frequencies are not extended 4. Vocals are slightly off to the right and not dead center 5. More Depth ? more to come |
I am not patient enough to watch videos. Specially trying to decide between audio components which can be hard to discern even if they are in my own room. aural memory is so short. So my interest in this thread has dwindled specially with all the experts chiming in after listening through their iPads or iPhones and making earth shattering proclamations. |
WC, As ricevs says, I know your ratings on the Gryphon, which are the highest so far. We haven't heard your ratings on the Merrill 118. Most meaningful would be a video A/B of them as I suggested. I heard from someone in confidence that he tried the JC1+ at home, and found about what you said in statements 1,2,3. He wrote to correct me when I posted that John Atkinson said it was a great amp. I trust his and your assessments. I thanked him for correcting my reliance on reviews. Amps with rolled off HF have more depth, because the overall presentation is more laid back. This amp is not in the class of anything you have enjoyed, and not because of its relatively modest price, since the Sim 860 V2 and Luxman M900u are comparably priced. Of course, break it in and see for yourself. So please get to the Gryphon/118 comparison, which is more worthy of your time. I subscribed to your channel, but I haven't gotten notices in my email. Usually the red subscribe button shows, and rarely the grey subscribed button shows. I think someone else also mentioned this problem. If this doesn't work, just post that you have another video, and I will go to YT. But if you trust us to subscribe, it would be convenient if you can still post the YT link. Thanks. |
@dguitarnut It just breaks my heart that your interest in this thread is dwindling. Your lack of patience is also troubling....When it comes to "experts chiming in after listening through their iPads or iPhones and making earth shattering proclamations". All I have to say to that is 'grain of salt'. Sure hope you find a thread that better suits your needs. Take care |
You should post a photo of Surf n Turf from Long Horn and another from Outback and then ask which taste better and is the most tender! Almost the same thing. Just saying. Lol WC is the only one eating so only his opinion counts. The guys looking at photos can only speculate with nonsense and that’s what this thread has degraded to. |
I understand what you’re trying to say/do, but I don’t think it’s a good analogy - sorry - but I do get the gist of it. Speculation is an absolute part of forum threads - especially when based upon logic and reasoning (which is what viber6 is going for) - and, of course, I think most folks realize that it’s just speculation and that’s why there’s so many suggestions for WC to try this and that. The reward (at least for me) are the videos where WC shares what he is actually hearing, as well as his reviews. Dave |
dguitarnut, I actually love your Surf n Turf analogy, even though no analogy is perfect. Even though YT videos are only a shadow of what WC hears in his room, I am able to make comparisons, even if they are diluted compared to WC's listening. For example, the most important quality to me, clarity, is something I can readily judge in the videos. An amp with greater clarity on the video will probably have the same in WC's room if I were there. I can also judge snap/sparkle and HF extension. But I can't really judge R/L separation, tonal nuances, bass dynamics and extension and other qualities. WC's videos are really fun if you accept the limitations. This is not much different from hearing a system at home, realizing it is not quite the real (live) thing, but still enjoying it. |
Hiya WC, This thread is awesome, only on page 5 but a quick one for ya. What amp (and pre-amp?) would you recommend for a movie buff who likes Visceral Impact (of bullets flying etc) but also appreciates lots of detail and engagement (is that the word...lots of detail but not bright). Movies like A Quiet Place, John Wick 3. I listen at normal volume levels but like to crank it up on action scenes ; ) I’m just using Anthem AV60, Krell 3250/2250, and Arenal 1723s monitors. Looking for a sub. Greatly appreciate it sir! Rummaging through your youtube channel as well. Subscribed! |
Jay, Thanks for your message. in my previous post I forgot to mention that I was amazed at the level of sound when you only used the medium bias on the Gryphon, which seemed to be plenty sufficient. I’d imagined the 20.7s would demand nothing but the high bias... what was, more or less, the volume level on the preamp? |
It is VERY HARD to compare magnepan to conventional woofer/tweeter speakers. You need to sit and listen and get your ears "tuned in" to the new sound of a planar because it sounds different and at first you don’t know what to make of it. As time passes, you begin to understand what it does better or what it doesn’t do. At a high level, I can say that magnepan don’t sound great with everything you throw at them. They are picky and can sound a little "broken" with some genres. However, they hit home runs with the right genres and totally floor you. Those of you with ear ringing can now listen louder and not get any ear fatigue with these speakers. What I love about them Is that this isn’t a speaker that you use to do "critical listening" with because you need certain types of amps and space and this lack of "critical listening" makes you forget about its imperfections and allows you to just enjoy them. They are a FUN SPEAKER which is something I can’t say about certain brands of speakers. Do I think they can replace a Wilson? No I don’t. Would I be heartbroken if this was the only speaker I could own ? Hell no I would not because it is a hell lot of fun. Big changes are most likely to happen within the next few weeks in my room. In the meantime, I am in the "in between" phase right now since the only speaker I own right now is the 20.7 so it allows me to focus on it and spend more time tweaking it. Tuesday I will have the ARC REF6SE which will get used with the parasound and Merrill 118s. One interesting fact which came to mind is that I have EIGHT power amplifiers in here right now and ALL OF THEM are on 24/7. Mark Levinson 533h (theater) ATI 528NC (Theater) Parasound Monos (2 amps) Merrill 118s (2 amps) Momentum s250 Gryphon Colosseum I have yet to have a single amplifier go bad on me... Not sure if this is because I don't really do the on and off that most people do. |
Professional mikes can record up to 140 dB. For critical listening, 85 dB or so is best, but this is about the speaker's design and the human ear where higher levels are uncomfortable for longer than short times and ultimately cause hearing damage. Horn speakers have low distortion up to about 120 dB. |
@WC A white 1964 Camaro RS convertible was my first car, but that is off-topic. More to the point, since you evaluated any of the Krell amplifiers, their performances have been meaningfully upgraded with the addition of their new "XD" technology (according to a number of critics who publish in magazines). Consequently, is a latest-version of a Krell amplifier on your list of power amplifiers to next evaluate? By the way, let me add to the chorus of your fans my own appreciation of your constant efforts to keep us "Audiogonians" informed about the relative performance capabilities of popular higher-end amplfiers. For me, this ongoing posting is a daily "must read". |
Well, i plan to do a quick video today of the parasound jc1s with the ref6se and the magnepan 20.7s. I am quite excited to try tubes with these speakers. As many of you know by now, i was looking for another speaker to replace my Sasha DAW and have finally paid for it yesterday. I should have it at some point next week. and....... well... As i was driving to pay for my new speakers i got a call and to make a long story short i will be bringing one of the baddest power amplifiers on the planet. I suspect this will finally send my Gryphon Colosseum to a new home. I expect for this amplifier to score higher than my Colosseum too. I am keeping things quiet and that is all you will hear from me. Expect for this amp to show up and with my new speakers just elevate my system to heights that i never thought would happen so quick let alone in the same month. This forces me to sell the momentum, parasound jc1+ monos and Merrill audio 118s. I need to sacrifice all the toys in order to pay off the beast that is coming. Yes, without reviewing it, i KNOW it will smoke the amplifiers i currently own. Stay tuned. |
I wanted to check in on this thread as it was one of the few to which I have contributed over the last couple of years. It is significant for me for several reasons. First because I was looking for and found amplifier discussion that was pertinent to my own search which eventually culminated in a Viola Symphony. With that in place my focus shifted to speakers. Coincidentally, this thread diverged occasionally into that discussion as well. Rather than re-enter details I already contributed, I refer readers to my previous posts in this thread, specifically the post from 3-28-19. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/my-long-list-of-amplifiers-and-my-personal-review-of-each/by_... Though it's taken me a few days to re-read the thread in entirety, I noticed a shift in tone towards the end on which I now comment. I feel thankful for contributions from those persons closest to products in which I may have interest. In many cases those contributors are dealers. Since I am now an enthusiastic owner of the GT Audio Works 3.1R + SI200 system I feel it's fair for me to comment on the 'shilling' issue. As you will learn from my earlier post from 3-28-19 I followed Greg's developments directly through Greg for several years. Once he engaged a dealer, he directed me to Steve and, respecting Greg's wishes, I engaged with Steve as well and focused my questions concerning purchase with Steve. Reading his dealer page and contributions in forums like Audiogon provided additional insights and led to my decision to make the effort to travel from MN to Long Island to audition the speakers. That 2-day audition led to purchase, a decision I am still emphatically happy I made. At any rate, using any source I can find to help guide informed decisions I never considered these contributions as 'shilling'. I look them as opportunities to learn. If the details are those which I already know, I move on to further research. My years of experience working in the industry have perhaps given me a thicker skin and ability to separate chaff from wheat. But, like all other audio and music enthusiasts, I am on a continual journey of learning and experience and welcome all opportunities to do so. As always... IMHO. |
Allvinyl, I wasn’t one who said anything about his posts, though I did feel they were a bit too much. He had gone over the details of his product a few days earlier, which was great, then he basically did it again a couple more times a few days later. Thats where I felt it was indeed a bit much. If it was new information, I get it. It didn’t bother me like it seemed to bother a few others. I always do like to learn about new products that I am not familiar with. I do see how some were a bit irked, but I didn’t see the need to be so negative about the response. |
@speedbump6 I understand and appreciate your additional clarification. I can understand that others' impressions left them feeling the way they did. My comment about my experiences is intended to illustrate that I am able to read and move on if the observations are not providing useful info. Those other readers obviously feel compelled to voice a concern. Fine. Since I own the speakers and came away feeling that there was some momentum towards piling-on, I thought I would jump in and provide an alternative opinion as a few others have done, as well. |
allvinyl, Glad to hear about your GTA speaker. I will hear the latest version at Steve's house in a few weeks. What are the specs and tone quality of the Viola Symphony amp? I think it is an older amp. I heard the Viola Concerto amp a few years ago. It was in the sweet solid state camp, roughly equivalent in tone quality to the Merrill 114. How large is your room? As you know, Steve drives the efficient GTA with only a 60 watt Pass in his moderately large room. |