My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!


So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab
Congrats on your sale. ...good luck moving forward. ..excited to see this through with you.

 mike
whitecamaross

i have followed the entire thread, but i can't recall what sources you use. i.e. CD player and / or analog front end, streamer /dac etc..


what is your main listening source? brand/model

thanks


mike
whitecamaross

do you like the Simaudio 650d better than the GamuT cd player?
Happy Listening!
Whitecamaross

Hello

I'm still here in Portugal, reading your experiences

I have a Mark Levinsion 335 and a pre ML 38S

an Esoteric SA10 CD

I have one more Pioneer A300R Precision (Ton Evans)

and I just got a great Yamaha A-S1100, great even ...

I would like to be your neighbor to do auditions together

but unfortunately I am in Portugal, a country and a poor people, but very noble

This translation was the best you can find

Happy Listening!
I believe that all of the audiophiles here would want to live in close proxy to
whitecamaross, myself included.

Happy Listening!

Thank you guys for all the humble comments. I appreciate all the feedback you all give me and it’s a pleasure to share my personal journey. This thread has been going for a long time and it’s incredible the amount of people that reach out to me because of it. 
I wish I did have a second set of ears to confirm my findings. 
decisions decisions... so i have access to a boulder 2010 preamp and a audio research reference 10 preamp. I can only get one at this time, can anyone give me their input as which one i should get? something tells me to get the boulder to see the synergy with the boulder 2060 and another thing tells me the audio research 10 could be a game changer. 
Ok, give me your input guys 
If you go to the What’s Best audio forum and go to the Audio Research forum, you will find a great thread on the audible differences between the Ref 6 and Ref 10. The quick answer is that one was not clearly better than the other and instead, primarily of different character, with the Ref 10 sounding more refined, the Ref 6 sounding more "vibrant and ballsy", the Ref 10 better for classical, the Ref 6 better for rock. I have no experience with Boulder gear, and you and I have completely different tastes in loudspeakers, so I won’t comment further, except to say that I don’t mind venturing a guess that you will lose what I refer to as "tonal density" and maybe gain some transients speed and low end extension with the Boulder pre.
The 2010 was designed to pair with the 2060. i would not be able to part with the amp until I found out what the designers intended their equipment to sound like.  Just my $.02
If the description of the Ref 10 is accurate from the What's Best audio forum, then I would say the boulder 2010 is definitely the one to go with!  Plus, you'll always be curious, if you don't   :-)

Dave
hi guys, yes i agree so far with your feedback. i love my reference 6 but i am very curious about the boulder 2010 because i want to really hear how the pair sounds with my salon 2s. i still have this last itch to hear both components together to find out what they are capable of. I am very curious about the ref 10 though, but given that there are not many 2010 preamps out there, i guess i could justify this opportunity to pull the trigger and see what happens. I have several opinions from different friends of course who claim the ref 10 is probably superior in every way simply because it is a newer design. 
@whitecamaross

I like ARC. But I think your better bet is to get the Boulder and try for as much synergy as possible. I’ve heard the Ref 10 but not compared it to the Ref 6.

BTW, I've read this entire thread and am excited when new posts are available. I'm sure there are many just like me.
I have several opinions from different friends of course who claim the ref 10 is probably superior in every way simply because it is a newer design.
Actually, the Ref 6 is the newer design. But that means nothing. The Ref 6 borrows far more from the Ref 10 than the LS28 borrows from the Ref 6. Besides tonal density, you are going to lose some soundstage width and depth, and this is just my educated guess, but imo the Ref 6 to some degree either accentuates or extrapolates a greater sense of soundstage from the input signal. I hope you get the Boulder and tell us for yourself. ARC built it's reputation on it's preamps and Boulder is not known for it's preamps. I look forward to your impressions. 
Ok so I may end up playing with 3 separate preamps and amps all at once. You guys are killing me here :) 
i am now leaning heavily towards the boulder 2010 rather than the ref10. 
If that 2010 doesn’t wow me given the price, I’ll probably sell the boulder combo and revisit the Belcanto black system. 
Boulder 2010 so we can all get a sense of what the fullest expression of the Boulder House sound was meant to be.
I’ve had the Simaudio Titan for many, many years now, which I love, but would love to audition the Plinius Odeon just to hear the difference. Hard to get a hold of one since they’re no longer in production. Not to mention it’s about 180 lbs for the 5ch I think. 
I’ve never owned the Titan but I do like simaudio stuff. I know the Odeon is the best multichannel amp I’ve owned. 
@btw22 I just recently upgraded my NAD M27 and the Plinius was one of the amps on my short list. It was basically impossible to find one to audition though. I bought the BAT VK-6200 which though it has a different presentation than the Plinius, I think is it’s equal. Very powerful, dynamic and detailed, with an open, natural, just to the warm side of neutral presentation. It’s control of deep Bass is sublime. I’m quite surprised that @whitecamaross has never auditioned it along with it’s big brother the 655se though I think that neither is quite warm sounding enough for his tastes.
@chazzzy007,
That Bat was also the other amp I wanted to audition but was hard to find. So hard auditioning these amps because they’re so big and heavy. Auditioning in dealer showrooms are never the same as having them at home with your system. 

Between the 3, I ended up with the Sim because of a dealer recommendation. He’s out of state but I really trusted him and I love the amp. Powerful, neutral and great synergy with my Dali Euphonias. Ive always had the Bat and the Plinius in the back of my mind though, especially now that the Titan is over 15 yrs old. 2CH is as much a priority as HT, so I want an amp that does both well.
@btw22 I think you’d do well to listen to one the next chance you get. The BAT is absolutely superb in 2 channel. It’s so good my dealer uses them in a monoblock array for his 2 channel music system. The BAT uses a separate toroid for each channel so it’s a true monoblock design. The snap and dynamics of this amp is amazing, yet it is also incredibly delicate and detailed.


I was offered a bat 600se and 655se. I passed on both because the market for those amps is very shaky and unstable just like pass labs. For instance, a luxman 900u amp which is 15k and the pass labs 350.8 which is worth 14k as well don’t have the same used market value. The luxman is worth about 2500 dollars more than the 350.8 on the used market. 
@whitecamaross I’d always wondered why you never reviewed the 655se. I have my answer now. That’s a shame because every reviewer who’s had it has loved it. Even it’s baby brother the multi-channel VK-6200 is an incredibly good 2 channel performer. 👍
hi guys,
so in an effort to keep things more even and without any sort of inclination to any particular brand, i had 2 friends come out last night to listen to 3 different set ups which were:
1. luxman combo
2. audio research ref 6/ simaudio
3. audio research ref6/ boulder

what i did was to have each person listen to 2 songs of their choice through tidal with each setup, BUT it was a blind folded test. They had to step out of the room while i switched each set up so they would have zero idea what was playing. i covered all of the equipment with towels so nobody would know what was playing. That said, here is what each person chose after it was all said and done:

Friend #1:
1st place - Luxman
2nd place - audio research ref 6 / simaudio
3rd place - boulder/ audio research

Friend # 2:
1st place - audio research ref 6/ simaduio
2nd place - luxman
3rd place - boulder / audio research ref 6

Me:
1st place - audio research ref 6/ simaudio (wins by a hair)
2nd place - luxman (very close race for 1st)
3rd place - boulder/ audio research ref 6

Anyhow, we all agreed that the boulder 2060 just sounds lifeless, clinical, analytical and it is probably in need of either its matching preamp or just a pair of Rockport speakers which we all know has synergy with it.

That being said, that was last night. Tonight i am listening to the simaudio, but i am using the ref 6 and luxman 900u preamp and i am getting a preliminary impression that the luxman preamp with simaudio amp might be better than last night’s winner (ref6/simaudio combo). i am trying different songs and at times i feel the luxman pre/simaudio outshines the ref6/simaudio but as i change songs then i feel the other way around. it is indeed one hell of a hard exercise to say the least.

whitecamaross


I enjoy reading about your numerous auditions, reviews and shoot-outs.

Keep us the excellent work. I know that you have been having fun as well. The Boulder is best served (no pun) w/ a matching Boulder.

This is one of the few Audio products where mix/match will not jive well.

Happy Listening!

whitecamaross,

Along with the Plinius Odeon and Bat v2 6200, the Classe 5200/5300 is also on my short list to maybe replace my Simaudio Titan someday. I already know how much you love the Odeon, but would you say that it’s THAT much better than the Classe?


Classe is decent but too warm sounding. Simaudio is more detailed. Haven’t you noticed that B&w was always showcased with Classe ? That’s because it helped with the brightness of the speakers. 
I will say the salons and simaudio amp have insane synergy. It’s like cheese and wine. I could easily sit here and be happy with those 2 together and just find more preamps. 

"the boulder 2060 just sounds lifeless, clinical, analytical and it is probably in need of either its matching preamp or just
a pair of Rockport speakers"


Whitecamaross, you just about nailed it... Except for things markedly improving when 2060 is fed through a boulder pre!


A few years ago, at RMAF, I had the opportunity of listening to a system consisting of Boulder CDp, Boulder 2010, and Boulder 2060 feeding into a pair of Vienna Die Muzik. The audience was about 10 people... The session lasted some 3 hours.


We switched back and forth between the Boulder 2060 and the Rowland M312 stereo amp. System remained invariant throughout, except for the amps.


We listen from a large selection of classical, jazz, rock, and modern.


Unfortunately for the boulder, just about everyone concurred that the Boulder sounded blanched, sterile, cold uninvolving, lacking harmonic exposure, authority, transient linearity, not to talk about staging, imaging, and overall macro/micro detail compared to the ROwland M312... Which at that time costed some 25% of the 2060.


Couple years after that we tried the same using the Boulder 3000 series amp contrasted by M312.. Unfortunately, results were very similar... A "lunch" was "eaten"... but it was the M312 doing the feeding, not the Boulder amps.


Thus, I am not faintly surprised that SimAudio and Luxman are outperforming the Boulder behemoth.


Regards, G.




Thanks Guido. Look I’m not saying that I know what this boulder amp can do unless I bring the matching preamp. However, I’m not sure anymore if the pream will change things to be better sounding. I really don’t think it will save things for me. Boulder seems to be built incredible but I don’t know why they don’t make them less clinical. How the hell can a 200 watt amp sound bigger and fuller than a 600 watt class a amp ? Mind you, I’ve used 3 sets of speakers and 2 different preamps with this boulder amp. You’d think things would be different at some point but the truth is that it doesn’t get better. 
How the hell can a 200 watt amp sound bigger and fuller than a 600 watt class a amp ? Mind you, I’ve used 3 sets of speakers and 2 different preamps with this boulder amp. You’d think things would be different at some point but the truth is that it doesn’t get better.
Probably not allowing enough time for them to warmup / settle?   Friend with Boulder finds takes long long warm up so leave on 24/7.

From experience, takes days and sometime weeks after moving components (including cables) in and out of a system to settle.  I evaluate components by living with them for months.   IMO you never experience optimal capabilities by quick a/b constantly moving them around.

Happy Listening and Keep ME Posted!!!!!
I left my boulder amp on for weeks. Things got better but they still don’t impress me. I’m most likely not willing to make the huge investment on a boulder preamp. So far this amp has not shown me anything but perhaps bass control. That’s it. 

Hi WhiteCamaroSS,


I do not know either if the Boulder 2010 will yield a more desirable result than your current stable of preamps....


On the other hand, my impression of the 2010 at the time of my auditions was that the Boulder pre was certainly a top notch preamplifier.... Feeding into the Rowland M312, and that into the Vienna Die Muzik, I was hearing rather spectacular music..... It was rather the Boulder amps for which I continued to hold severe reservations.


At the time of that audition, I did own a Rowland M312 (500W, 45A peak current)... Since then, I upgraded to M625 stereo (V1), M725 monos (V1), and for the last few years, I have adopted the M925 monos, which are quite spectacular.


I have also had the Vienna Die Muzik in my system for several years.... And these guys won’t go anywhere else any time soon... At least for my musical preferences, the are long time keepers.


Saluti, Guido

Bass control the Boulder 2060 certainly has.... To the point of delivering a sterile bass, unfortunately *Sighs!*


G.


Guido,
i have a gut feeling the 2010 preamp is amazing. I actually had the same feeling about the preamp too and I haven’t heard it. I wonder how much better it is than the pass labs xp30 or luxman? 
I have a funny feeling that the preamp is the special piece too.... I’ve always wanted a game changing solid state preamp 

Hello WhiteCamaroSS, I have not performed any comparative analysis on the Boulder 2010.... I have only heard it a few time in the Denver dealer setting, driving a couple different amps.


I have not had it in my own system. What I can say is that at least driving the Rowland M312, 2010 did not make me wish we were using a different preamp.


I am not a strong fan of Pass Labs, but have instead a lot of respect for the musicality of Luxman.


But there are a number of fabulous preamplifiers on the market...


For example, the Jeff Rowland Corus used in combination with the Rowland PSU ultra-capacitor-based external full chassis power supply, as well as the Solution preamp.... And the Burmester pres... Sorry, I do not remember the Solution and Burmester models.


Saluti, G.

   





Whitecamaross,
Your comment regarding the pairing of Classé amps with B&W speakers exactly reflects my own experience with both brands.
  I've owned the CA-2300 and work daily with the D3 series speakers and feel the same.

I'm another lurker who reads your comments with interest.  Thank you for sharing.
So i just spoke to a boulder deal who swears my issue with the 2060 is because the 2060 and the 1060 are no good. He swears the 2050 monos is where boulder begins to show you what they can do in terms of sound quality. He swears if i buy the boulder 2050 and 2010 combo that i am not going to need anything else. Of course, i told him that i currently have a sour taste in my mouth with the boulder brand and its musical presentation and so i am not going to just go out there and buy a 2050 & 2010 when i am not even liking what i am hearing. Typically, people MOVE UP the ladder within the same brand when they are blown away and not disappointed. Meaning, if you own a mercedes c230 and love it, you want to eventually move to the s550 because you love the brand, but if you hate the c230 because you have issues with it, etc then you are probably not going to go to another model. However, with cars it is different because you can actually test drive the other model you are considering.

i told him that the amp sounds lifeless and sterile. It almost feels like the amp is playing music inside a morgue rather than in a listening room. It feels so out of place when compared to my other amps. What i have noticed is that current AND former boulder dealers do have a strong passion for the brand.

They also told me that boulder shows you what you have in your front end and my question to them is " damn it, how much do i have to spend to make boulder sound better than my cheap amplifiers ? $40,000 dollars? " i mean that would be ridiculous to spend that kind of money in order to best a simaudio, or a luxman amp. Now he has me thinking about changing cabling, sources, yada yada yada and my thing is that WHY does so much need to change in order to just improve on what my more ’affordable" amps are doing already? It is not like i am trying to best 100k dollar amplifiers with the boulder amps. That is what is mind boggling to me. Why do i have to change cables, sources, this and that ONLY to make this boulder amp beat a cheap simaudio or luxman amp? are they kidding? 
Whitecamaross

i liked the car analogy.      and let's not forget your purpose to all this: find what is musically satisfying to your ears.     NOT to do everything in your power to make the boulder amp/brand fit into your system.

i will use a car analogy myself: a ford compact with all the fancy gadgets..or a stripped down camaro ( i think i can guess which one you would take--lol)

in other words, why the hell do i have to upgrade all these peripherals i.e.;cables,power conditioners and whatever else to compensate for an unsatisfactory piece of gear !!!

an amp should most be persuaded by a superior preamp and superior source. you have that,for sure. the result is then translated thru your speakers of choice.

imho, i believe that you have already crossed the path many times of having a great amp preamp and so forth.

and at this point ,with your favorite gear plugged in, it is time to create you"signature" sound.

how? revisit square one! SPEAKERS.

mike






 
@whitecamaross This is an amazing thread!

You owe it to yourself to give Ayre a shot. Trust me on this
He has already stated he thinks Ayre is grossly overpriced. The resale value is also highly questionable as to what % you can expect back.  I paid less than 20K for my KXR-Twenty and VXR-Twenty combined. What is that 50% off from the original owner???
Huh? Overpriced compared to some of the brands mentioned here? I don’t think so. Which model? They have several tiers.

Besides, thinking about it vs. trying are totally two different things.
@whitecamaross
Understanding that you prefer a warmer, more musical sounding amp it makes sense that perhaps your cabling and other parts of your system are a bit more analytical and neutral in order to compensate. Maybe that’s the issue with the Boulder. You’ve paired more analytical cables and sources with a neutral amp and indeed without your warmer sounding amp you are simply hearing the upstream parts of your system.
So guys, 
as you know in order for me to keep this thread alive I have to buy things right. I can’t overspend and take massive losses between each component I try. Ayre now is very dangerous to the because the owner died and that will be a big point to be talked about in terms of resale value. This is why I can’t try brands that only a handful of people have heard of. Why ? Because I have to sell that down the road and I need a buyer for it. 

If you have read the OP's posts he has clearly stated his view of AYRE products. He has also mentioned several times about re-sale value of the components he tries.  He will get his butt kicked if he buys MXR, VXR, KXR Twenties brand new and then doesnt like them. Plus you have to wait MONTHS for Ayre to build them...they arent ready made like Arc/Luxman etc

Not sure what your not understanding given these variables. You can easily sell Used Luxman/Arc pieces and not lose 2K per piece. Try doing that with AYRE.   I suggest you go to HIFISHARK.COM to see how much money you will lose on AYRE products should you try to resell them.  A KXR-Twenty just sold on Audiogon for 14K....how much of a Bath was that??

Thanks for your point. You pretty much nailed it. I couldn’t have said it better myself. I want to try brands like magnus audio, rogue, etc. But that’s a risky thing to do because if I were to be wreckless with brands then I’d be filing for bankruptcy in no time.
I have built a great network of connections and I have access to many brands with prices that most of you couldn’t get. Why? Well think about how much gear goes through my living room and all the business I must be doing in order for me to keep going ? My purchases have to be done wisely so that once I’ve tried it then I can sell and take minimal losses. That said, most of you don’t care about this because you just want to be happy and use your products and that’s it. I enjoy the journey of trying new stuff Constantly and then sell in order to buy the next item I want to review.
this is one of the many reasons why I’ve not tried ayre. I mean if someone sold me the ayre mxr twenty for 10k for the pair then I’d buy them right now. I don’t even hesitate at all when deals come my way. 
To say that Ayre is a brand that only a handful of people have heard of, it is a bit of a stretch, but I see your point. Especially if you buy new.

Have you thought about buying them used?

And you don’t have to go to flagship Ayre to know. They currently have three models / price tiers, with a fourth coming soon
I agree with you Whitecamaross with Arye being dangerous or at least very concerned with its future with Charles Hansen Unfortunate passing. I use their QX 5 Twenty Dac and love the piece but Im very concerned with the future of Arye.

Great thread and keep up with it daily.
Whitecamaross,
In my opinion you’ve described the sonic signature of Boulder pretty accurately and as guidocorona concurred with. On the several occasions I’ve heard them they struck me as dry, cold and sterile and lacking any sense of emotionally/musically involving.

A solid state amplifier that occupies the other end of the solid state genre spectrum are the Japanese Concert Fidelity ZL 120 and ZL 200. They were "very" musically engaging with a natural tactile and alive presentation. They allow an emotional connection with the music. Another exceptionally good solid state amplifier that’s very musical and involving was the Technical Brain also Japanese. Really good sounding but uber expensive. I’m a SET tube kind of guy but these two SS amplifiers made music 😊.
Charles