My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
Uh-oh, you are falling for preamps again after swearing off them last night. OK, listen to the above, and then put the final nail on the preamp coffin as you show that all preamps cloud the details you like. The contenders for best overall sound will be DCS straight into the Lux M900u, or DCS into the mystery power amp. If you can ditch the Cardas speaker cable that was incompatible with the Gryphon Coliseum, use the Wireworld speaker cable, and now you have a 3rd contender--DCS into Gryphon. Use the Odin XLR to maintain the highest purity. Pure and simple, lol. |
I agree with all comments regarding the very closeness as can be perceived not being right therein yhe room. However, the Luxman at ½ that 30k cost of the Ayer... 😉... my pick for sure. All that said, the music sounding absolutely fantastic, detailed, spacious, airy, ever so right, this for both units. Michélle 🇿🇦 |
Hello all I started reading this thread two weeks ago and I’m not as far as I’d like to be. I’m on thread 75. Anyway, I have a choice between the McIntosh C2700 preamp or the anthem STR preamp with the STR amp. Can I get a decision on either of these two and nothing else. My system is Focal Kanta number three fronts, center and surround. 2 Jl audio e112. Carver m-1 ot amp. Also 2 record players hooked up to a musical surroundings phonomena phono stage going to my old emotive audio prima tube preamp (that I want to swap out). Receiver is Onkyo TXRZ 1100. Whitecamaross, I appreciate your input. By the way I’m hooked on your thread still trying to read all of it. |
WC - You said you'd address my questions in your video, but you haven't yet. I was asking about how the Ref6 (and SE) mate with the Luxman M-900u, and how you like the Luxman M-900u over the GS150 (and other ARC tube amps I suppose). I was shocked to hear you say in one of your videos that you considered the Ref160M to be a "bad amplifier" because to my ears, it's one of the best I've heard, it's very good with Wilson in particular. Heard it on the DAW many times. But anyway, my main concern is the Ref6 with the Luxman power amp, since I just purchased the Luxman and don't yet have it. If you can give your thoughts here or on an upcoming video, I'd appreciate it. I haven't heard you really talk about the Ref6SE much...You did one shootout that included it, but I didn't hear your thoughts afterwards. |
WC - I found this from you, which gives me some hope! So it can't be that bad lol. "Luxman 900u amp/ arc ref 6 combo: the best midrange i have EVER HEARD IN MY LIFE has been presented by these 2 components regardless of any amp i have ever owned before. The luxman 900u with its spectacular midrange and the tubes from the preamp present a midrange that sounds better than if you heard a person speak in front of you. It almost feel like you can hear the saliva in the mouth of the performer. The highs are world class by all accounts and lack absolutely NOTHING. If you are a person who enjoys music purity, finesse, detail, high resolution and the last ounce of silkiness without any fatigue, this combo will make your jaw drop to the ground. This IS YOUR TICKET. " https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/my-long-list-of-amplifiers-and-my-personal-review-of-each?page=14 |
This still holds true about the ref6 and luxman. Well, my 2 new components have arrived. My ayre will probably pack its bags to go to a new home after I put it through its last shootout next week. Tonight I will make a short video about my latest additions... stay tuned... One last thing, the preamp I will introduce tonight is the last preamp i will buy. If i still end up preferring the dac direct into the amps, then I’m done with preamps. They will become a "nice to have" and not a "must have " for me.. |
I agree with you that for purity and getting closer to all aspects of the music, there is likely no preamp that equals bypassing the preamp. Like others, I heard almost no difference between the Ayre and Lux preamps on the Lux amp. But going back to your video of 4/21 comparing the ARC Ref 6SE and Lux preamps on the Lux amp, I heard the ARC as being significantly more transparent than the C900u. My best analogy is a blanket covering your speakers. The blanket causes veiling. The Lux C900u is like a 10 mm thick blanket, the Ayre preamp is a 9 mm blanket, the ARC is a 5 mm blanket. But eliminating any preamp is no blanket at all. Let's see how the D'ag preamp does. But before you give up on preamps, try the Benchmark LA4 preamp for only $3K retail. The Benchmark AHB2 amp has close to the most purity of any amp I have heard, so I suspect that the LA4 preamp is the same. Kal Rubinson of Stereophile found the LA4 to be that, and a thread poster (forgot his name) was going to try the LA4/AHB2 combo against his Lux combo. If the LA4 is only a 1-2 mm blanket, it is worth considering for when you want loud SPL's with very good purity. I don't think "synergy" of the same brand of preamp/amp is all that important. The ARC ref 6SE still beats the Lux C900u into the Lux M900U for purity and transparency. The C900u merely increases the blanket over the M900U. Dag has warm, character in the manner of Lux, Rowland, Pass, compared to the purity of the Benchmark AHB2 or my Mytek Brooklyn amp. No, I haven't heard the Lux M900U or any Dag, Rowland or Pass amp, but I say this from you past evaluation of those amps. I did hear the Lux 600A class A amp and found it reasonably transparent, but still warm compared to Benchmark and Mytek. The Merrill Element 114 I found to be warmer than the Mytek. If you find that the Benchmark LA4 is the most transparent preamp that you would find worthwhile for loud SPL's, then try the Benchmark AHB2 if you still believe in brand preamp/amp synergy. If a single AHB2 doesn't have enough power, you can get 2 and use as monos for only $6K retail. Deal with either Music Direct or Benchmark directly for their return guarantees so you don't lose money. |
Curious how people are watching/listening to these youtube videos. How confident are you that you’re hearing what @whitecamaross is hearing in his room? I’m just using my iPad, so I’m listening to the commentary and not the SQ at all. I could send the audio to my rig but that would merely be youtube quality (mp3 quality, right?) and further relies on the mic quality, recording, and setup in his room. And even if that chain were optimized I would still be listening through my gear, not his. IOW, I don’t see how anyone can credibly assess SQ from a youtube video. I mean, it’s cool that @whitecamaross is sharing his impressions and has such a wide breadth of experience but are you really confident that you are sharing the experience from the videos? |
Right everybody realizes that, but with the tech available it is what it is, and is appreciated by his viewers. It’s like if I’m travelling for work and my wife Facetimes me so I can see my kid at bat in his little league game. Of course I realize that I am not actually at the game, sitting in the stands, and of course I realize that there are other things going on in the game that I cannot see through the Facetime feed that I would be able to see if I were there (e.g., how is the right fielder playing him to hit?), but dammit if having that Facebook feed of seeing him hit isn't a hell of a lot better than having my wife merely attempt to describe it to me afterwards. |
Sure, fair point. I have also been a big advocate of having WC state his conclusions and not having others try to color WC’s statements based on their subjective views not having heard the components. Not many try to do that and if they do most everyone now just ignores them. Most of us who post our impressions of what we hear in the vids just do it for sake of conversation and don’t try to sway others or take the comparisons as gospel. At least that’s my impression, ymmv |
Good points above and I appreciate you all wanting to read my thoughts. That said, I went to bed at 3am listening to this Momentum gear and have to do more listening over the next few days. I love what I do and it’s great to have followers that also enjoy my journey. I also want to THANK YOU ALL because I think the thread has turned around ALOT and there is much less bickering and arguing other than just disagreements which is fine. Quick question, does the shoot out of the gryphon coliseum with ayre preamp and luxman c900u interest anyone? |
WC - I'm also interested in anything you want to share. Not many of us have the ability to make all of these pairings and formulate conclusions. I will say that you should look into getting your own blog site and creating reviews. That would be much easier to catalog and digest all that you've discovered. Currently, it requires reading through hundreds of pages of forum posts to gather your information and try to piece it together. |
Jay, you are ripping through all these changes very quickly. Not sure how as it dosnt seem like it’s products you can just pick up at the local audio store from off their shelf. I would imagine even the manufacturers have a backlog of products. However you’re doing it, keep it up. I do agree that you need to hear a big difference to make it worthwhile. When I read reviews online, it almost seems as if every positive review is leaps and bounds above, meaning amp, preamp, speaker, dac, transport, power cables, interconnects, speaker cables, power conditioner, etc etc. with all these huge improvements, it sure seems like better than perfection should have been achievable by now, lol. In reality I believe it’s more like very minor differences, and then only in certain areas, each piece has its strengths and weaknesses. The goal is putting together pieces that give the best compliment. Even then I find I enjoy many different sounds, so my perfection cannot be defined as x. |
Makes sense and thank you for thoughts. Right now, I CAN NOT justify buying ANY OTHER preamplification if the goal is to mate it with the 900u amp. To me, it's a WASTE of money and time and the improvement isn't really significant or any at all in some cases. Spending 20k on a preamp to only improve 5% from the 900u preamp is not smart at all. As far as the momentum stuff, it is BY FAR THE BEST LOOKING equipment I've ever owned. When it comes to sound, you'll need to stay tuned to find out my impressions. Is the momentum S250 the star of the combo or is it the HD momentum preamp ? I don't know ... I haven't separated them yet but I have heard them here last night and I'll make a video later on. Up next, Gryphon Colosseum wakes up from the dead and joins forces with the C900u and Ayre KXR TWENTY preamp. Is this where the 900u preamp begins to lose ? Or will it still hang with the $30k Ayre KXR TWENTY preamp ? Stay tuned... |
The silver is beautiful, and who cares what it sounds like. It’s a work of art if it dosnt work out for the system. I’ve been buying mine used to find “ bargains” got the Ayre for 16k vs regular. I saw a Soulution Audio amp ( reg 55k) for 17k just now. Things that make you go hmmm... never thought I’d spend that much on an entire system at one time, much less think of those prices as bargains |
My guess is the Gryphon is the best amp you have for the purity and clarity that you now value. As long as you don't use the Cardas speaker cable which has the least clarity and causes hum anyway. You will probably come to the same conclusion that any preamp is a step backwards, with either Lux or Gryphon amps. So yes, I look forward to your shootout among preamps with the Gryphon. Then with the most transparent preamp, do the final shootout between DCS+preamp+Gryphon (or even Dag amp) and DCS+Gryphon (or Dag amp). I like silver for everything. Does anyone want black coins for money in their pocket? LOL. |
Hi WC - I’ve followed your journey with great interest for the past couple of years and have vicariously enjoyed the ride! Like many, I’ve done my version of said ride albeit at a bit lower level. I don’t know if it has been previously suggested or discussed but I greatly encourage you to hear the Vivaldi Clock in your system, if you haven’t already. I had my Vivaldi One for a few weeks and loved it but my dealer (that would be audio dealer!) gave me a great price on a Vivaldi Clock he had taken in trade. It is easily one of the best moves I’ve made in my quest for “better sound.” It brought more of everything that drew me to the Vivaldi One, i.e., tonal richness, detail, holographic soundstage. I could go on and I will, just a little! If I were to quantify it, I’d say it added another 25% in sonic value to my system and once heard there was no way it was leaving! If you have heard it and didn’t find it captivating, let me say in the words of Emily Litella, “never mind!” Be well! |
@WC In keeping with your audio itch that perhaps the preamp may be standing in the way of a more fulfilling music experience of your great gear, I suggest that you might find passive preamps another ”road not taken”. And here I suggest you look into and even audition the extraordinary Townsend Audio Allegri + and now, recently, the more useful Allegri Reference which allows remote passive .5db volume control. |
I understand the benefits of a passive unit using autoformers, such as the Townsend, but to my ears, I prefer my Luminous Audio unit. I find autoformers " soften " the leading edge of the musicianship, and I want to say, this is my personal take, and preference, between the 2 designs...to each his / her own..... ymmv...My favorite tube amps, are OTL, such as Atma-Sphere, and why I am not a fan of many Mcintosh power amps, those using autoformers. We all like, what we like. |
So have you all ever wondered how much different are the Dan D Progression Stere & Preamp combo in comparison to the Momentum S250 & Momentum HD Preamp? Don't guess anymore. Here are my thoughts: 1. Progression is smooth, controlled and musical 2. Momentum is clearer, purer, more detailed, livelier, BIGGER BOLDER BOTTOM END, bigger soundstage, prettier. FAR FAR SUPERIOR to the Progression stereo/preamp combo in every regard. THE END |
I don't have a favorite...I've neither heard the Walker Axiom nor the new Allegri. I do have the Allegri + which is to me a wonderful unit and a welcome difference from my preamps. And now that the output from DACs and streamers is more than enough to drive quality amps WC has, I thought he too might enjoy the comparison. When I've heard it, I liked and enjoyed the Axiom too. Next time, I hope I'll remember to listen, as you do, for those leading edges...thanks. |
