Cool thx.
I like when you give pronouncements like, "best for the money." That's helpful to those of us on budgets.
Seems in last video that WC gives very clear statement that in his opinion, the best amps at $10k and $20k pricepoints are both Luxman. He is emphatic in his conclusion.
I wonder if anyone will try to gaslight and convince us that WC did not say that or does not really think that, but instead prefers something else at those levels???? |
Two of the more confusing naming conventions:
Lux 509 is more powerful watts wise than Lux 590
Parasound A21 is more powerful watts wise than Parasound A23
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Adri's post is a little confusing. First he says RCA and XLR offer the same "rendimiento" (performance, resolution), but then later says XLR always surpasses ("supero") RCA significantly. |
@jetter It´s not only plain wattage. The 590AX runs in pure class A, whereas the 509X (without "a") is AB.
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Hi gallus, I'm with you on the class A versus class AB. Never the less I am programmed to think bigger number = more watts. Hope all is well in your neck of the woods.
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@jetter Thank you and hope you and your loved ones are doing well! According to a very good friend who owned the 590AX and is involved in the industry, Luxman released the 509X class AB because the class A unit runs extremely hot and some customers complained about it - particularly the ones living in warm places. That is the issue with class A, but sounds soooo good
The 590AX is one of the very best integrated amps at any price point, unfortunately I have no experience with the newer 509X and can´t comment.
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Here's what gryphon has to say about cables and their amplifiers: (could explain the issue with buzzing???) Gryphon’s basic philosophy is one of sonic neutrality and Gryphon amplifiers are very special as they are equipped with an enormous bandwidth. As Gryphon prefers to leave interpretation to the musicians and singers, it is Gryphon’s belief that we don’t need a cable with a particular “sound” of its own to balance or to “equalize” your system. All Gryphon amplifiers are designed and manufactured with an extreme bandwidth and in some cases the wrong choice of speaker cable can become an issue and will create potential problems in the collaboration between the amplifier and the speakers, with the speaker cable as an interactive factor. Gryphon recommends to - Steer away from speaker cables for Gryphon amplifier with a coaxial design, active shielding or special boxes that will add-on different types of filtration. A speaker cable with a coaxial design or with active shielding will in most cases have a much lower bandwidth than the amplifier and therefore the amplifier will be met with too high a capacitance load causing oscillation of the amplifier. There is no need to actively add filtration on an analogue amplifier. It doesn’t serve the final reproduction of the music any good.
- Use speaker cables with a low capacitance and a wide bandwidth in order to match the specs of the amplifier’s bandwidth and output impedance. From Gryphon’s standpoint, there is no need to add more “negative” filtration to the system given their emphasis to have the finest level of tonal balance and neutrality.
Choose your cables with the highest level of attention to the actual parameters of the cable design (e.g. cable geometry, capacitance, bandwidth, insulation, conductor material and connectors) and aim for low capacitance and sonic neutrality. From that standpoint, Gryphon’s own range of interconnects, loudspeaker cables and power cords are used in the development of Gryphon products. Gryphon cables are designed for ultimate neutrality and resolution. They are extremely revealing and will allow the ultimate quality of your Gryphon system or any fine audio components to come through clearly and undiminished. Do give it a try with your Gryphon units and let us know what you think. |
WC, could you rate the best integrateds that you experienced from best to worse cost no object ? ( Dan D’Agostino Momentum,Gryphon Diablo 300, Mark Levinson 585, Luxman L-509x, Bel Canto Black, etc. )
And which one of those would be the best for the money ( value) overall.
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I have a pair of Goertz Alpha Core speaker cables, and to quote Almarg from 2012 Their ultra-low inductance is achieved at the expense of ultra-high capacitance, and if a Zobel network is not used that can cause some amplifiers to oscillate, and possibly fry. Which is what I thought was happening to your amp. Without going back and rereading what you wrote previously, I believe you said it was only impacting the sound from one speaker which is confusing. Check with your experts, but AFAIK you would only need to add a set of Zobel networks to your speaker terminals to cure your problem, if you like the offending speaker cables, the same as with the Alpha Cores. It use to be easy to pick up a pair of the Zobels from Geortz for a few bucks, of course no longer. You may have to have a pair made which I expect would be inexpensive, and plans are on the web. |
1. Agostino
2. Luxman 590axmk2
3. Gryphon diablo 300
4.Luxman 509
5. Belcanto Black integrated
6. Mark Levinson 585 |
I believe that the new Dag integrated would make this list handily. FWIW
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Wow the Luxman 590 axmk2 creaming the Gryphon Diablo 300 and Bel Canto Black. 😲
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Different sound. It's personal preference. |
If you hear the luxman 590mk2 with cardas clear beyond speaker cables and Wilson Daw....you'd swear it's the end of the road ... |
WCSS, been reading this thread since inception. You have helped me along the way on the thread and pm’s. Thank you! Here are a couple of pics of latest configuration; you are spot on calling the m900 “Rocky”. This amp is incredible! https://imgur.com/a/SH2DCxw |
Wowww I love your set up. I want to hear those Dynaudios....man, great job with what you’ve done. It looks so neat and organized. Nice panels on the wall. Based on my recollection of Dynaudio and luxman, I GUARANTEE there is massive synergy with what you got. Wow well done sir !
Yep: luxman 900u is ROCKY for sure. It doesn’t get phased by any damn thing. Have other amps bested it in my room ? Yes but there’s a difference between getting edged out and getting smoked. I have never had an amp that smokes the luxman 900u. Not the xs300s, dag m400s, rowland 925s, gryphon, etc etc. Nada. It is bested but not smoked.
One last thing, it is the one amp that wipes out my short term memory when it comes to other amps I've had. Makes me not really miss any of them . |
WCSS, thank you for the kind words. I love these Confidence 50’s; they are very special. Let me know if this works: https://youtu.be/nwXnxSmpVhI |
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I’m quite sure YouTube compression plus my iPhone 11 has rendered a poor audio stream. I’d like to figure out how to maximize resolution transfer from a 1080 vid to end user; |
Seems like Wilson DAWs and Cardas Clear Beyond speaker cables don’t get along when high current is going through. The Gryphon amp doesn’t like it.
Something in the Wilson Crossovers PLUS Cardas cables ( very low capacitance) with high current going through makes the Gryphon amp cry for it’s mother. |
WCSS; I’ll post more, but the short answer is the complex load of the Cardas-Wilson at idle, is causing feedback loop instability; if you added a parallel pure resistance such as 10 ohms across the speaker terminals, the oscillation will likely disappear. I suspect the Gryphon has very little global feedback overall; why in the left channel? The tolerances of the components of the left pcb come into play plus possible bias current is out of spec.
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Interesting explanation. I almost sent my gryphon in for service but I was told that there is nothing wrong with it based on what you all saw. It is just the combination of cardas and Wilson that creates an environment that makes the Gryphon act up this way. |
Try playing a test tone of say 30 Hz and see what happens to the baseline hum. Also, have you tried playing music? |
Yes I have. You still hear the hum with the music together. |
1236 am:
Dynaudio c4 platinum with the very best components and cables I have is right now blowing me away. HUGE TALL WIDE SOUNDSTAGE. Gryphon with cardas clear beyond speaker cables , dcs and luxman preamp are totally making the Dynaudio their b@tch and really pushing them. I'm super impressed!! Video to come ! |
@viber6
Out of respect for WC, I'd like to keep my adventure out of WCs thread. To answer quickly, I have the M2500 amp. With the matching preamp and E1 speaker, there is good snap and sparkle with excellent tone and texture and a three-dimensional soundstage. If you'd like to know more, you can IM me.
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That must sound amazing in person. |
WC, who is a female singer on your last video? Album name?
thank you.
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Sounds like Melia and Boris Blank (of Yello) |
@ denon1
"Tears Run Dry" by Malia and Boris Blank
from the album Convergence released in 2014.
get the App "Shazam" on your phone ?
It comes in very handy. |
whitecamaross
Nice video- you will notice quite a difference in sound quality during midnight to early am hours. Enjoy the music.
Happy Listening!
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Especially when a cocktail is in your hand! |
@whitecamaross that's awesome about the C4 performance. The Dyn tweeters are incredible masterpieces-- top shelf resolution extractors yet sweet and musically engaging. The DDC approach which is designed to focus the energy toward the listener (reducing room interference) also helps the image scale.
Can you please comment on the low end "grunt" or "authority" between the Gryphon and M-900U on the C4's?
I heard very little difference over my PC monitor speaker setup.
Thank you,
Dave
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vibe6 For God's sake, shut up a bit, you are absolutely unbearable !! For each WCSS post you do 3 or 4 giving explanations, which matter little and the only thing they do is make it unbearable to read everything !! I have been reading the whole history of WCSS for 15 days |
WCSS 4-17-2020
Gryphon recommends to - Steer away from speaker cables for Gryphon amplifier with a coaxial design, active shielding or special boxes that will add-on different types of filtration. A speaker cable with a coaxial design or with active shielding will in most cases have a much lower bandwidth than the amplifier and therefore the amplifier will be met with too high a capacitance load causing oscillation of the amplifier. There is no need to actively add filtration on an analogue amplifier. It doesn’t serve the final reproduction of the music any good.
- Use speaker cables with a low capacitance and a wide bandwidth in order to match the specs of the amplifier’s bandwidth and output impedance. From Gryphon’s standpoint, there is no need to add more “negative” filtration to the system given their emphasis to have the finest level of tonal balance and neutrality.
As I indicated in my post dated 4-12-2020 the Cardas Clear Beyond cables are the antithesis of low capacitance, at 446 pf/foot, although they are not as high in that respect as the Goertz cables Jetter mentioned. And Dpac has provided a good explanation of why the problem only occurs in the left channel. Also, as I mentioned in the earlier post the DAW’s impedance is significantly capacitive in the vicinity of 60 Hz, which is probably contributing to the issue and putting the amp’s left channel over the edge. I agree with Jetter and Dpac that a Zobel network, or perhaps even just a 10 ohm resistor capable of handling the necessary high power levels, would likely solve the problem. But basically everything seems to point to the Clear Beyond being the wrong cable for this application. I’ll add that a primary design goal of the Clear Beyond was presumably to provide ultra-low inductance (0.01 uH/foot, in the same general ballpark as Goertz), with the high capacitance being a side-effect of the particular design techniques Cardas used to accomplish that. But IMO such low inductance is overkill by a wide margin. Especially with speakers such as the DAW (and many other dynamic speakers, as opposed to electrostatics) which have an impedance which rises at high frequencies. (The impedance presented by an inductance is proportional to frequency, and will matter less if the speaker’s impedance also rises as frequency rises). Regards, -- Al |
Cardas made them to go « beyond » imagination...
...so that you can cannot even start imagining the kind of trouble you’ll have with them.
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So when can we hear about this...???
"I will also give a nice discovery on WHAT made a huge change on the luxman set up which will give you all luxman owners want to grab your checkbooks to chose what i will suggest you should buy."
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As soon as I have a chance to do it. Hopefully next week sometime. |
Bad news people.. Florida just shut down schools for the rest of the school year. This is not good for anyone. Hang on to your hard earned money. Not the right time to buy. |
Schools are shut down in Illinois too. Happening across the country. I’m in need of an amp and it’s terrible timing. Nothing is open. Thanks Emotiva for a broken promise. Flagship XPR amp that you won’t fix.... you claim parts are no longer available but these come from China. They copy everything. You can find a replacement supplier if you try....
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@whitecamaross
I'm surprised you haven't tried Accuphase, from the love you been showing Luxman.A few threads a few years back had the two being compared & a lot of people seemed to prefer the Accuphase over the Luxman in direct comparisons. The Accuphase M-6200 or the P-7300 seem like they would be right up your alley. |
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My wife chose #1 FYI
Wow, lots of mixed feedback. |
Which speaker is #1 and which is #2? Or is that intended to be part of the suspense? The Dynaudios were never shown, and DAWs remained in same spot for both clips, meaning dyns (assuming they were playing in one of two) had positioning very different than daws. Not saying that’s wrong just an observation.
My tongue in cheek conspiracy theory is both were daw with different power conditioners (Denali and AQ). 😂
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Just listen... Give your thoughts and I'll give mine soon :). |
My guess is that "Speaker 1" was Dyn and "Speaker 2" was DAW. I thought clarity on 2 was maybe a bit better; I thought 1 sounded bigger but maybe a little sloppier? Can't really truly judge them though given my limited and poor playback options. Still fun though. |
