@jmeyers re: 1964 Camaro RS. I sure hope you kept it as it would be the only one in existence. GM started building camaros in 1966.
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
20,890 responses
Well, i plan to do a quick video today of the parasound jc1s with the ref6se and the magnepan 20.7s. I am quite excited to try tubes with these speakers. As many of you know by now, i was looking for another speaker to replace my Sasha DAW and have finally paid for it yesterday. I should have it at some point next week. and....... well... As i was driving to pay for my new speakers i got a call and to make a long story short i will be bringing one of the baddest power amplifiers on the planet. I suspect this will finally send my Gryphon Colosseum to a new home. I expect for this amplifier to score higher than my Colosseum too. I am keeping things quiet and that is all you will hear from me. Expect for this amp to show up and with my new speakers just elevate my system to heights that i never thought would happen so quick let alone in the same month. This forces me to sell the momentum, parasound jc1+ monos and Merrill audio 118s. I need to sacrifice all the toys in order to pay off the beast that is coming. Yes, without reviewing it, i KNOW it will smoke the amplifiers i currently own. Stay tuned. |
@WC A white 1964 Camaro RS convertible was my first car, but that is off-topic. More to the point, since you evaluated any of the Krell amplifiers, their performances have been meaningfully upgraded with the addition of their new "XD" technology (according to a number of critics who publish in magazines). Consequently, is a latest-version of a Krell amplifier on your list of power amplifiers to next evaluate? By the way, let me add to the chorus of your fans my own appreciation of your constant efforts to keep us "Audiogonians" informed about the relative performance capabilities of popular higher-end amplfiers. For me, this ongoing posting is a daily "must read". |
Professional mikes can record up to 140 dB. For critical listening, 85 dB or so is best, but this is about the speaker's design and the human ear where higher levels are uncomfortable for longer than short times and ultimately cause hearing damage. Horn speakers have low distortion up to about 120 dB. |
It is VERY HARD to compare magnepan to conventional woofer/tweeter speakers. You need to sit and listen and get your ears "tuned in" to the new sound of a planar because it sounds different and at first you don’t know what to make of it. As time passes, you begin to understand what it does better or what it doesn’t do. At a high level, I can say that magnepan don’t sound great with everything you throw at them. They are picky and can sound a little "broken" with some genres. However, they hit home runs with the right genres and totally floor you. Those of you with ear ringing can now listen louder and not get any ear fatigue with these speakers. What I love about them Is that this isn’t a speaker that you use to do "critical listening" with because you need certain types of amps and space and this lack of "critical listening" makes you forget about its imperfections and allows you to just enjoy them. They are a FUN SPEAKER which is something I can’t say about certain brands of speakers. Do I think they can replace a Wilson? No I don’t. Would I be heartbroken if this was the only speaker I could own ? Hell no I would not because it is a hell lot of fun. Big changes are most likely to happen within the next few weeks in my room. In the meantime, I am in the "in between" phase right now since the only speaker I own right now is the 20.7 so it allows me to focus on it and spend more time tweaking it. Tuesday I will have the ARC REF6SE which will get used with the parasound and Merrill 118s. One interesting fact which came to mind is that I have EIGHT power amplifiers in here right now and ALL OF THEM are on 24/7. Mark Levinson 533h (theater) ATI 528NC (Theater) Parasound Monos (2 amps) Merrill 118s (2 amps) Momentum s250 Gryphon Colosseum I have yet to have a single amplifier go bad on me... Not sure if this is because I don't really do the on and off that most people do. |
Jay, Thanks for your message. in my previous post I forgot to mention that I was amazed at the level of sound when you only used the medium bias on the Gryphon, which seemed to be plenty sufficient. I’d imagined the 20.7s would demand nothing but the high bias... what was, more or less, the volume level on the preamp? |
Hiya WC, This thread is awesome, only on page 5 but a quick one for ya. What amp (and pre-amp?) would you recommend for a movie buff who likes Visceral Impact (of bullets flying etc) but also appreciates lots of detail and engagement (is that the word...lots of detail but not bright). Movies like A Quiet Place, John Wick 3. I listen at normal volume levels but like to crank it up on action scenes ; ) I’m just using Anthem AV60, Krell 3250/2250, and Arenal 1723s monitors. Looking for a sub. Greatly appreciate it sir! Rummaging through your youtube channel as well. Subscribed! |
dguitarnut, I actually love your Surf n Turf analogy, even though no analogy is perfect. Even though YT videos are only a shadow of what WC hears in his room, I am able to make comparisons, even if they are diluted compared to WC's listening. For example, the most important quality to me, clarity, is something I can readily judge in the videos. An amp with greater clarity on the video will probably have the same in WC's room if I were there. I can also judge snap/sparkle and HF extension. But I can't really judge R/L separation, tonal nuances, bass dynamics and extension and other qualities. WC's videos are really fun if you accept the limitations. This is not much different from hearing a system at home, realizing it is not quite the real (live) thing, but still enjoying it. |
I understand what you’re trying to say/do, but I don’t think it’s a good analogy - sorry - but I do get the gist of it. Speculation is an absolute part of forum threads - especially when based upon logic and reasoning (which is what viber6 is going for) - and, of course, I think most folks realize that it’s just speculation and that’s why there’s so many suggestions for WC to try this and that. The reward (at least for me) are the videos where WC shares what he is actually hearing, as well as his reviews. Dave |
You should post a photo of Surf n Turf from Long Horn and another from Outback and then ask which taste better and is the most tender! Almost the same thing. Just saying. Lol WC is the only one eating so only his opinion counts. The guys looking at photos can only speculate with nonsense and that’s what this thread has degraded to. |
@dguitarnut It just breaks my heart that your interest in this thread is dwindling. Your lack of patience is also troubling....When it comes to "experts chiming in after listening through their iPads or iPhones and making earth shattering proclamations". All I have to say to that is 'grain of salt'. Sure hope you find a thread that better suits your needs. Take care |
WC, As ricevs says, I know your ratings on the Gryphon, which are the highest so far. We haven't heard your ratings on the Merrill 118. Most meaningful would be a video A/B of them as I suggested. I heard from someone in confidence that he tried the JC1+ at home, and found about what you said in statements 1,2,3. He wrote to correct me when I posted that John Atkinson said it was a great amp. I trust his and your assessments. I thanked him for correcting my reliance on reviews. Amps with rolled off HF have more depth, because the overall presentation is more laid back. This amp is not in the class of anything you have enjoyed, and not because of its relatively modest price, since the Sim 860 V2 and Luxman M900u are comparably priced. Of course, break it in and see for yourself. So please get to the Gryphon/118 comparison, which is more worthy of your time. I subscribed to your channel, but I haven't gotten notices in my email. Usually the red subscribe button shows, and rarely the grey subscribed button shows. I think someone else also mentioned this problem. If this doesn't work, just post that you have another video, and I will go to YT. But if you trust us to subscribe, it would be convenient if you can still post the YT link. Thanks. |
I am not patient enough to watch videos. Specially trying to decide between audio components which can be hard to discern even if they are in my own room. aural memory is so short. So my interest in this thread has dwindled specially with all the experts chiming in after listening through their iPads or iPhones and making earth shattering proclamations. |
Parasound JC1+ are powered on as of 10 min ago driving the Magnepan 20.7s. Initial impressions: (cold amplifiers) 1. Someone turned on the subwoofers in my room? 2. Visceral presentation from the Magnepan 3. High frequencies are not extended 4. Vocals are slightly off to the right and not dead center 5. More Depth ? more to come |
WC, Although I haven't personally heard the Dag, my experience with Merrill is that it seems to have everything you want. Live unamplified music has smoothness and snap/sparkle in a combination that eludes all systems, but of all the amps you have had, the 118 seems closest to that ideal. Only you know if the Gryphon is even better. I like your quantitative rating system that complements your written prose, so let's see how the 118 and Gryphon rate. |
WC said it best "When you sit in front of both amps for more than the 5 min of playtime, you begin to understand what the dag does better...." Have to agree that it takes more than the 5 minute Utube videos to understand the differences one hears between any of these components especially thru iPads or any such device which is why I've personally stopped viewing these shootouts. I much prefer hearing from WC his thoughts after he's had much time with each piece of gear. |
Fair enough, that makes sense. I was thinking a couple of possibilities were that the videos didn’t fully convey the Dag advantages or maybe you just really liked the Dags more generally than majority of viewers based on videos. Either of those could have also explained it but I’ll buy your reasoning of more time. Thx |
When you sit in front of both amps for more than the 5 min of playtime, you begin to understand what the dag does better. There are components that don’t quite "talk" to you in 5 min playtime. Living with a component makes you understand its strengths and weaknesses. If you sat here for a few hours and listened to both then it will be easier to gauge the performance. The smoothness of the dag is more polished BUT it seems to have more synergy with Wilson than with just about any other speaker brand.( It is a gut feeling though) Lastly, keep in mind that at the end of the day and based on the ratings, I am basically saying the dag is 5% better than the simaudio and 6% better than luxman. You are paying 12k and 15k more respectively speaking for this improvement and some people will pay it. No question about it. Ps. Jc1+ arrived today and the ref6se will be here Tuesday. I want to try this pairing badly. Many of you are seriously interested in hearing my thoughts on these amps because they cost pretty much the same as a stereo simaudio or luxman. Some are wondering if these monos are actually A BETTER purchase because you are getting monos instead of a single amp. Will that be the case? I am extremely curious to find out. |
Easy. Gryphon smokes 118. I think we’ve heard enough of Gryphon last 2-3 months to know that outcome. Just go watch some of the old videos. Dag rating doesn’t really seem consistent with its performance in head to heads over the last month. I am honestly having trouble remembering even a single video shootout where Dag was judged the consensus winner. With the rating it was given, i’d have expected just the opposite. As just latest example, I think most preferred the class D Merrill setup to the Dag even with Dag costing probably nearly double when preamps and stand factored in. If i’m wrong about that please point me to such a shootout where Dag was the consensus winner in a shootout. |
WC, While you are waiting for the other JC1+ to arrive and break in, please do the comparison review of the Gryphon with Merrill 118. Fortunately, you don't have a Gryphon preamp and can't do a review of Merrill package vs Gryphon package, so you can do this with any other preamp. Christine would be my choice. You got my Merrill 114 evaluation, now let's hear your 118/Gryphon comparison. Also, how much does the 118 vary in sound with its settings of fast, medium, slow? Choose the fast setting to see if the 118 can unseat the Gryphon at the top. |
klh007 and lissnr, At Steve's house when I heard an older GTA playing a very dynamic piece by Rimsky Korsakoff, even with the subs disconnected, there was a lot of power in the bass. Then with the subs on, there wasn't much difference. This illustrates that for most classical music, the panels alone are sufficient, although there are certain rare pieces that could use the subs. This is more applicable to rock. In order to get the most precision and detail, the midpoint of the panels should be aimed to the listener's head. The narrow HF ribbon has excellent dispersion, but any panel wider than about 4 inches will exhibit poor dispersion of upper midrange and higher freq. The GTA can be enjoyed by a few listeners sitting on a couch or standing, but the center listener will get the most profound experience, a big difference. I heard the original large Apogee and several later models. Due to the large width of the main panels, there is rolloff of HF, compared to GTA. Apogee smoothness is nice, but the GTA offers that, PLUS more snap/sparkle in HF without harshness. |
Momentum s250 review https://youtu.be/a6Np7Xcozo4 Please subscribe. There will be no more links coming from me anymore. |
kren, Even though I think the GTA is the best planar speaker out there, I identify with WC's pursuit of the more familiar Maggies first, as a way to dip his toe into planar waters. Since his style is to own anything for only a short time, this is understandable. Maybe he wants to hear many other things before committing to GTA, since its resale value is unknown. |
And now for a walk on the tweaky very transparent and relatively inexpensive wild side. http://tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/Purifi_amp_mods.html Maybe Jay will want to try a pair of the super all out wild guys...Purifi or Nc1200. "We've only just begun". http://tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/Ruminations_on_Class_D.html |
Hello all. I’m an avid planar guy who’s been through my share of Maggies and Martin Logans over the years and have been obsessed with Apogees ( and their rebuilds) for the last 15+ years. While I’m not going to say subs are “Always Necessary” with planars it’s pretty obvious that most will benefit from a top quality pair of subs that are mostly capable of augmenting the panels if you can cross them over low enough on the quest for seamlessness... And speaking of which.. I have heard the GT Audio Works on more than one occasion with their accompanying stacks of 4 or 6 self powered subs and each session shared the same virtues: precise planar 3-D imaging and remarkably well integrated almost bottomless bass... The speakers were exceptional IMHO and are the only occupant at the moment on my list of potential replacements for my beloved Apogees if ever I feel the need for a new speaker. And I don’t say that lightly. It’s a fantastic speaker which would obviously compel any proud owner to tout its greatness. |
I am an avid reader of Jay's thread, and an owner of GTAW speakers, an earlier model 2.5. I knew from the moment I heard them at Capital Audiofest that they were like Magnepans on steroids, sold 3.6s and bought my first of 2 pairs of GTAWs. Matching up OB subs with planars is the perfect coherent solution for planars' diminished low end dynamics and impact. I'm thoroughly enjoying Jay's journey and I hope he continues to audition gear, make video shootouts, read our impressions and then tell us what he thinks. Jay liked the GTA speakers at Axpona in too small of a room, I hope the right circumstances occur and he gets a pair someday. Maybe he'll get a deal on Wilson Alexx, Vivid, or Von Schweikerts? That's what fun about following Jay, he likes surprises! |
Ha! I don’t even know what that means re V’s politics but thank god he doesn’t talk politics here. I think that would drive me right over the edge. haha. Well anyway glad to know I wasn’t the one in hot water. I’ll have to try harder maybe..... And I certainly meant no ill will towards faxer. I’m sure he’s a fine chap and I would love to hear his speakers when audio shows start up again. Here’s a random Q for WC: Ever had PS Audio Directstream DAC and if so anything under $8k beat it? |
Now thats a good one....me scolding somebody for arguing with him. If that ever happens my ID has been hacked or somebody has spiked my food with mushrooms and Im temporarily delirious. Me and Vibes are on the same page when it comes to things happening in the District of Columbia but thats probably about it. Usually THE TROLL was the subject when enforcement was brought up. He has since disappeared yet again from these pages. Probably working extra hours to upgrade his state of the artifact C47 Preamp. |
