You are correct. I haven't owned every speaker under 15k. I'll say it is the best speaker under 25k that I have owned.
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
20,890 responses
It may be a bit presumptuous to say you don’t believe anything can compete with the 20.7’s for the price when over the past one or two years (ie, covering current generation of speakers) you haven’t owned very many sub15k speakers (at least that’s what I recall). There are a lot of contenders out there in that price space that you haven’t owned. Just sayin’ Perhaps you are supplementing your ownership experience with demo’ing at shows etc. But point taken that you like the 20.7 |
Hi I haven’t decided yet on my Odin 1 speaker cables. I don’t know if I will go gryphon speaker cables because the Odin is still an Excellent cable. I have another speaker cable in mind that I want to try but I haven’t pulled the trigger. The last video with the magnepan was with the odin 1 speaker cables. I’ll need to try the gryphon speaker cables with the logans and magnepan |
Last night’s video was the Magnepan 20.7s with Gryphon Mephisto. There were many things that i liked about it:
What i did not like?
That said, the space that the 20.7 needs to create the incredible the tall,wide & deep presentation of the Alexia 2 will be far greater. Look, it is a big speaker and there is no way around it. You must have the space to let them breathe and transport you into the music and this can complicate things for those of you without a dedicated room or enough space in your living rooms. However, i want to remind you all, i STILL BELIEVE the Magnepan 20.7 is crazy good for the money. It does things that NO OTHER SPEAKER that i have owned can do and they are A TON OF FUN. Can they replace my Alexia 2s? absolutely not, but if i were in a position where i needed to downsize, financial issues, etc and needed to buy something cheaper, i would probably get the 20.7 and use subwoofers with it. I do not believe there is a speaker that can compete with it for the money. This is like the "luxman" of speakers when it comes to bang for the money. As far as aesthetics, i know, i know, it isn’t everyone’s cup of tea and neither is Vivid Audio for some of you or even Wilson Audio. You are not going to make an interior designer happy with the 20.7s in your room, but if you can open your minds and overlook the aesthetics, you won’t be disappointed. If you haven’t checked out the video, please visit my youtube channel: Jay’s Audio Lab My next video will either be the Magnepan Again WITHOUT the Merrill Preamp and just go Dac direct into the Mephisto while keeping the rest the same OR the Martin Logan 13a will make their first appearance. Stay tuned for more. In addition to that, in case you are all wondering, i am still waiting on the Critical Mass stand for my Gryphon Mephisto (they said 3-4 weeks to build it), Gryphon Pandora preamp will hopefully be here by the end of this month and i have purchased 3 more Audioquest Dragon HC powercords to round out my system. |
techno_dude I should probably ignore you, but here it goes. All cables are to some extent equalizers, carrying their sound signature into the connected components, if you know the kind of cables used for voicing the equipment and can duplicate the setup, you are one step closer to hearing what the manufacturer intended. Are Gryphon VIP cables great universal cables ? Probably not. Are they extremely overpriced ? Sure, like almost all high end cables. Are they good cables for connecting Gryphons top amplifiers ? Most likely. Why keep harping on Jay’s decision to try the Gryphon cable on his Gryphon gear. He has already tried other cables. |
Ok now WC lets get back to topic. Of all the preamps you tried, which one would better match and be prestigious enough to match the Gryphon VIP badged cables ? I’m sure my humble Mcintosh C47 would be elevated to new VIP heights with those. Nah, a Shunyata Sigma NR v2 would trounce the Gryphon pc, no contest. |
Viber6, What WC is politely trying to tell you above is that your criteria for judging equipment that you have never heard is not appreciated, nor is your telling him how his rankings should be altered based on your criteria for judging equipment you have never heard. You attempted to try to get him to change his rankings (saying Christine should be higher than he ranked it). So please take his advice and desist. Don't try to convince him he likes whiskey, or should like whiskey, when he has made it clear he prefers vodka. Good advice. |
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jetter1,962 posts09-11-2020 4:53pm techno, I am so glad you are so sensitive and at the same time strong and can see through that WC guy and his mini me viper. Guys like us should stick together and we can show them all where it is really at. Keep it up brave warrior. I wrote this back on 9/11, it was suppose to be cynical irony, but now that I reread it it does not come off that way. To be clear, it’s unfortunate that techno believes that he has nothing interesting about himself to share and has settled to be a remora off WC’s thread. More than anything, what has occurred, and not just on this thread, is that a few posters who would benefit from professional guidance have joined our ranks. The great misfortune is that they will take this as some type of criticism, rather than the opportunity to improve their satisfaction with life that it is. |
Wow ! What a thread ! I started reading it 2 weeks ago and have been captivated ever since. What a cast of characters, it’s like a reality show with returning contestants, viber6, Mr.DB, techno_dude and unwanted messages from our dealers/manufacturers. If a psychiatrist ever gets ahold of these pages new groundwork can be done understanding OCD. Jay, you are doing fantastic work exploring and documenting high end audio. I have come to trust your honest opinions, and love your enthusiasm and excitement. When you buy new gear, you are like a kid with new toys, the way it should be. When you started the Youtube channel i was nervous the honesty would evaporate because of commercial interests, but no, you still say it as you see it. It has been a pleasure to follow your development as a audiophile, you have managed what normally takes 20-30 years in a few years, and you are never afraid of admitting when you where wrong, and always willing to learn. Your patience with contributors and Trolls is truly amazing, maybe because you have understood that they play a vital part in keeping this thread entertaining. Keep up the good work ! |
@viber6 i fully agree with you. tuby sound will not have extended HF, it might be warm or soft or rolled off or even smooth in many cases. i like the use of word sparkle which means crisp highs. iam tired of reviewers mentioning highs are sweet or smooth. only in a few cases sweet or smooth means of lack of grainyness or harshness. there are many instruments which can be naturally sharp or grainy . similarly for this warm or warmth.many times music might not be even warm. it's like, instead of running behind natural timber of every instrument in a particular frequency the audio reviewers are going after making or altering music to be warm or sweet or smooth when it is not the case at all many times. i have listened to ayre amps and it has a sweet presentation of HF which means not as crisp. |
Hey, Audiogon is finally back! Tecno, of course you’re confused. You’re not used to these names and the technical terms used in the higher end products to describe what we hear. Brands that’s you’re more accustomed to like Fisher and Sylvania, people use different terminology to describe their products sound. |
WC, I am not disagreeing, but just pointing out some lack of consistency in your assessment of the Ayre. A tubey sounding unit cannot have extended HF at the same time. "Sparkle" is a good way to describe HF because that's what we hear and commonly relate to. Few listeners have test labs to measure HF perceptions, and the lab tests don't tell the story anyway. |
The goal is for me to give my personal opinion.I'm taking the steering wheel from this point on and I rate them as I see them. I go by what I like best. That's it. If anyone disagrees, please order stereophile or absolutely sound and hit the x button at the top right of your browser right now. I rate them as I see them while in my possession. If I like brand x then I like brand x because I feel it tastes how I like it. If I like vodka then I like vodka. Don't burn your energy trying to convince me to drink whiskey. |
WC, I enjoyed your thoughtful discussion of the 8 preamps. If the remote on the Christine weren't such a negative, for sound quality it would probably improve to 4 on your rankings, maybe 3, beating the Ayre. For best value, it seems that the Christine should rank 1, the top. Watch for the upcoming Merrill preamp based on GaN. About the Ayre, there is some confusion about the HF. You find HF outstanding, but then rate the HF about like the ARC ref 10. According to you, the ref 10 inflates images and obscures nuances, which the Ayre does not. But if the overall character of the Ayre is tubey like the ref 10, then I would rank the Christine higher than the Ayre, if the goal is neutrality/transparency. Similarly, if the goal is neutrality/transparency without harshness, the Boulder would rate top, no. 1. The Dag HD is a skillful example of flavored coloring. You prefer it, but the fact is that any coloring reduces transparency and revealing of musical detail. You cannot have both coloring and maximal revelation of natural musical detail at the same time, although the HD is the most skillful compromise. I eagerly await your review of the Pandora preamp. Ultimately, the real fun will be any of the new Boulder packages vs Gryphon package. |
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Re inhouse cabling from hi-end makers.. FM Acoustics which I’ve been using in one form or another (Amp/Preamp) since early ‘90s mandate the use of their own cabling ever since. PIT (precision interface technology) interconnects, and Forceline (3,5,7) for speaker cables. They go as so far to fitting special terminals onto their amps such that only their SC using Forceplugs can be used. Even their powercords are all fixed/hardwired oem. No fancy technology, just mass of pure copper to my eyes. And pricewise although costly, nowhere near the absurd pricing of some cable manufacturers nowadays. Soundwise, in context of FMA’s system—hard to beat when use from preamp on down, u can fine tune a little upstream if you so wish to. I’m currently running FMA pre with Accuphase amps.. hence using Siltech Double Crown loom. But when switching to FMA amp, I switch back to FMA’s cabling, saving the source which I’ll still use the TC xlr, plus Ruby DC powercords. So pls stop ridiculing WC preference for using Gryphon’s cabling as a system concept with his Mephisto. As I’ve tried, sure it could be bettered with very” long trial and error—which is both energy and time consuming—not to mention the further capital means of splurging say 100k (or thereabout) for trying top of line loom from some specialty cable makers. |
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Do these Gryphon cables even have some technology inside them except being VIP stamped ? Vip, perfect for WC and the level he says he is playing at... At least, Nordost, Shunyata, Cardas, Tara Labs, Audioquest all have explained tech... Please don’t say I’m on the wrong thread. He started it. Come back here WC, they are claiming you back. Specially me. |
Its been a long journey for WC in his pursuit of his own perfect system which he has shared (and still does) with the Audio world community. There have been a few collisions of views on the way but in all reality that is to be expected in Audio/HiFi forums. I don't think I have ever been on an HiFi/Audio forum where there has not been some disagreements of opinions, whether done in a formal courteous manner or upfront and very personal..! The main thing is the WC's thread, posts and videos are a huge source of interest and enjoyment for majority of us on this thread. |
almarg was the go to guy for any audio technical questions in this forum. He posted several times on this thread when we were all stumped and needed questions answered. So sad to hear he is very sick.....makes me realize just how fragile we all are. I will really miss his thoughtful and informative posts. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/update-on-audiogon-member-almarg |
lhasaguy, It appears that WC goes for attractive opportunities at attractive prices as they come up. Since he loves flagship products, I'm sure he considers the 30.7. He looks for higher Wilson models, but the Alexia 2 is what he found at the moment. I happen to believe that the ML 13A is one of the very top performers in the ML line because of its medium size design, as well as being top value. |
@whitecamaross wc/jay you have a heart of a gold.you have been very sincere , frank and you have always taken constructive criticism the right way. but a few bad actors have taken this too far and done this in bad taste. i can understand how it feels and your response towards it. the overwhelming majority of folks here fully understand , appreciate and cherish your efforts. just ignore them and let's not engage these folks with a reply anymore.not worth it. keep up your great work and continue with your experiments which you do with so much passion and sincerely. you have helped us with your insights a lot and will be always thankful for that.you are a thorough gentleman. |
also please be amused by this little snippet from an earlier model Jay! (and certainly not having a go - i just spent major $ on an ethernet cable!) but oh how the tables have turned :-) 21st April 2017 "I agree. i have tried other high end brands and i honestly can't hear a difference. To me, spending a lot of money on cables is really a big mistake. First off, when you try to sell them after you are done with them, you will take a bath trying to sell them. You will be lucky if you can recuperate 25% of the value. That said, there are plenty of people who spend 5,000 dollars on a power cord! which i think is ridiculous. " |
WC it was a long time coming but thank you it needed to be said. I've been a long time follower but don't comment much as I don't play in your league: retired with a simple system Pass Int250 and Wilson Yvettes. I'm not jealous of your system I enjoy mine same as you take great delight in what you are doing and wish you well in your endeavor. It has gotten harder to follow your thread lately with 3 or 4 responders constantly interjecting and pushing their own agendas into the thread, it's unfortunate there is no way to block the a..holes. You always use car analogies; it's the same with people who read Road and Track who will never ride in a Ferrari but still buy the magazine. I am sure there are quite a few like myself who read and enjoy your thread and don't comment or try to preach their beliefs. Wishing you luck with your journey and thanks for taking us along for the ride, and ignore some of the useless potholes and roadkill |
WCSS, I have followed this tread off and on since the beginning. I am in complete agreement with you as it is Your journey. Some folks with agendas have been a thorn for a long time IMHO. I need to thank you for all the work and insight provided. You are the only reviewer I trust. Putting your own money into the journey has demonstrated a love for knowledge amid a search for great sound. I have been away for a while, and learning you have a pair of big Maggie’s makes me smile and look forward to your shootout upcoming. Again, missing your acquisition on 20.7s (I think), did you ever consider the 30.7 models or did you get a great bargain on the ones you have. Just curious about the process and forgive my failure to read about six months of attacks on you to catch up. |
All- I believe the title of this thread is very clear: "My Long List Of Amplifiers and MY REVIEW of each" To me, that implies it is about ONE MAN’S opinion & journey on amplifiers he has owned. It means you are reading someone’s feedback based on what he has had or currently has. That said, we are "supposed" to be grown men here and not kids and i am assuming (fingers crossed) that there isn’t anyone underage reading or posting here. i consider EACH and EVERYONE OF YOU grown men. As grown men, we have families, bills, responsibilities, jobs, businesses and so on. I have been here on a 4 year journey now and some people have come and gone and i am sure there are plenty of people who still read this thread and don’t post which is totally fine. Anyhow, and to be frank with everyone, i am NOT HERE luring kids into buying candy. I am also not here to convince ANYONE of buying ANYTHING. You are all GROWN A$$ MEN and can make your own buying decisions. If my input and/or feedback resulted in you making the correct purchase that helped your own personal journey then i am glad that i was able to help you somehow. If we start to observe the behavior of some individuals here, notice that the hate started ever since i began to explore higher end offerings (Gryphon, Alexia 2, Nordost Odin, DCS, etc, etc). It never happened while i reviewed more "affordable" equipment. I personally feel like i am entitled to review whatever my financial situation allows me to have. I don’t feel that i need to follow someone else’s protocol because the title already implies what this is about. I don’t need to articulate it further. If you feel content with the more affordable lines and that has taken you to happiness then be happy that you don’t have to spend the money i have spent. I applaud you for putting together the perfect system FOR YOU for less money. Kudos to you! With that out of the way, I don’t appreciate the bashing, constant punches, criticism (unless it is really REALLY CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM). I do, however, appreciate advise when given appropriately. i do not accept "orders" because i left the military many years ago and quite frankly nobody here can order me to do anything i don’t want to do because (and again i don’t want to sound harsh) it is MY MONEY. How would you all feel if you lived all by yourself, you pay all your bills, mortgage, etc and a stranger from the streets who you have never ever seen before comes into your home and tells you how to decorate your home? Your first reaction would be " who the F--- are you to tell me how to decorate MY HOUSE?" Granted, this is a public forum and i understand it is different, but you all get what i am trying to say. I sent 2 private messages over the last 24 hours to 2 people with whom i had no beef with, but who suddenly came on here and began to say things that really took me by surprise. Long story short, is that i need to start doing? Do i have to call you out privately? It is totally out of my character to be an a$$hole and i demonstrated this HERE for a LOOOOONG time when i did not confront ANYONE EVER, and MANY OF YOU messaged me to tell me "hey Jay don’t take that bs man..say something to those who attack you etc, etc." Well, a man reaches his limit and i am there now. I will plaster it here as smoothly as possible: IF YOU FIND ZERO VALUE IN MY TRIALS AND JOURNEY THEN STAY OFF THE THREAD. I DO NOT NEED YOUR CRITICISM AND CONSTANT BS. IF YOU ARE MAD BECAUSE YOU ARE IRRELEVANT TO ANYONE AT ALL AND I MANAGED TO CREATE THE LONGEST RUNNING THREAD EVER IN THE HISTORY OF THIS WEBSITE AND NOW I AM WORKING ON GROWING MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL THEN BE SALTY WITH SOMEONE ELSE. -THE END |
guyl, I agree with your balanced view of things. I like your goal of getting 90% of the benefits for 60% of the price. In other aspects of life, there is the 80/20 rule. In the stock market, a great investor gets 80% of the returns with only 20% of the risk. I like to fantasize that as a good amateur violinist, I sound 80% as good as a professional with only 20% of the practice time. If I actually put in 20% of the time, that might be true, but actually I put in only 5% of the time due to my real profession as a doctor, and get significantly less than 80% of the results. |
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Thank you guys. Your comments add more weight to my points. Personally I liked the fact that WC initially changed directions a few times and came up with 'surprises' i.e. the journey was not a straight line. Experimentations, discoveries, etc. all of that was the interesting part. The discussion about the Luxman amp for instance was great: good value for the money, synergy with X or Y components, etc was something very interesting I believe even for people who do not want to buy one. We could also learn from Mrdecibel's journey with his Adcom amp or somebody else's Bryston. I had the impression money was not the only factor at the beginning - yes I've read the whole thread too :-). You guys are right, a lot of people following this thread have experience buying, selling, listening to great audio systems, are musicians and so on. I believe they can contribute positively to this thread and share their views as long as we stay on track with OP's main topic. I guess I've seen less and less of that recently and it seems I'm not the only one. The richness of this hobby comes from sharing experiences with people (I mean both ways). Otherwise, it is simply a question of opening a wallet, buy the most expensive MBL gear and be done. In other words, is it a one man show or a conversation with the audience? That 'd be great to get WC's view on this. |
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