@WC
Constellation vs Block?
Dave
Constellation vs Block?
Dave
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
20,890 responses
WC, I just read your comparison of 925 and Centaur. It is a superb, objective review of sound characteristics of each, and useful for people with different tastes. I just hope you can afford to keep the 925 around for the A/B between the 116. My guess is that the 925 and 116 will have similar character, but the Centaur will be in a different ballpark, so I think that the A/B of 925 and 116 will be more informative than Centaur and 116. Of course, an A/B/C of all these upper crust amps would be the ultimate audio review. |
I really don't think being a fair and honest reviewer is bad at all IMO. In fact I think the sugar coating and straight up lies in most reviews you read in the magazine's are getting way out of control. To the point of purposely swaying the uninformed public looking to spend their hard (some very hard) earned money on a product that doesn't do what the reviewer described it does either warm, bright, deep, wide etc sound stage. Just to insure that there will be someone blindly spending the cash they saved to only be disappointed. I feel there needs to be a change in the way reviews are done and WC does a great job delivering an honest review noting the pros and cons without hyping or sugar coating either one. Having a review stating what his or her other system components are and having the hands on experience and integrity to say while this didn't work in this system it would or could play better with these other components in the mix. That would be a better more fair review of something then having a play with words to come up with a new way of saying manly positive things. It would also put the Manuf. in a position to change something for the better if they really care about the truth. The truth doesn't care about your feelings and if any Manuf. worth their salt and truly believe in their product shouldn't be scared to have an honest fair review of their product IMO. |
Constellation vs Block Audio: Block Audio: -Block audio has perhaps the tightest, most visceral bass control of any power amplifier i have ever owned. i suspect this amp is in the same camp as the Solution 711 when it comes to bass control - Block audio has sufficient current, drive and soundstage width & height to satisfy the most critical audiophile. - Block audio easily beats every single amplifier i have ever owned from Pass Labs with the exception of the XS300 which i have never owned. - Magical mids (class a trait) with great projection into the room - It does not run ANYWHERE near as hot as many Class A design out there - Built to military grade specs and far more beautiful in person than in pictures. If i were to say WHICH amp i prefer, i would say FOR ME WITH MY CURRENT SPEAKERS, i prefer the Constellation Centaur 2. It has perhaps a little better separation and is EXTREMELY MUSICAL. The Block audio is towards the neutral side of things which means it tries to not get in the way of the music so it doesn't impose itself. This is a good and bad thing because as you all know there are some recordings out there that we like and don't sound good at all (not the case with the constellation Centaur 2). I also feel that the Block Audio and Lampizator Pacific Dac as a preamp sounded INCREDIBLE and better than with the ARC REF10, but the Lampizator/Constellation isn't as good (less synergy). Both amps are awesome at what they do, but it really comes down to this: Do you like full muscular sound with neutrality? - Go with Block Audio Do you like musicality, sweetness, huge sound? - Go with Constellation |
Glad you're keeping the Constellations. Sometimes, especially in your case with the Neolith, it is the full balance from top to bottom that will bring out the best in the Neoliths. Then there is the extra current, when needed to have the music produced as the artist intended it. Other than the Progression Monos, or the Momemtum Monos, the bottom end punch with the musicality of the mids and highs will be hard to beat. The preamplifier will be the place where the goods may still be found. Just wondering what your take on Robert Harley's article on his new sound room? I was amazed at the construction, myself. And the mention he made of the power outlets making a difference, was something that I really didn't think mattered that much. To him, the difference was quite large. |
My guess is a lot has to do with the use of the amount of negative feedback in these two amps (hence the bass explosion on the Blocks ala Soulution - another high negative feedback amp). I've yet to hear a convincing Constellation demo at a dealer or show (or Soulution), but just goes to show you that speaker/amp synergy is wildly different for people (and I've never heard Neoliths on Constellation nor the Series 2 which apparently is much better). I also think what some don't realize is that while reading about WCSS's adventures is entertaining, he's always had very difficult to drive speakers (even the Wilsons he had are difficult impedance-wise). That drives amp comparison significantly - people relying on them might be disappointed on their own gear. Just as an example, I had the $10k Luxman 590AX, 30W pure Class A integrated on my Zu Definitions back in the day and it sounded like cream - on a YG at my dealer the m900 is quite the opposite. The most important thing is speaker/amp synergy and that's what WCSS seems to be focused on and is quite honest about that it's his system in his room to do these experiments. Speaking of, did he ever hire an acoustician for his new room? |
No acoustician. I am doing a special soundproof drywall throughout the entire room. It is especially designed for studios and it also is costing me far more than the regular drywall. The plan is to get rid of any external noises and once I am in the room, I will begin the madness of connecting everything over a weekend. Heres what I am thinking for the home theater as far as audio: martin Logan axis inwalls for front left, front right and center which will go behind a perforated screen. Martin Logan axis for surround left and surround right. Martin Logan helos for Atmos Klipsch LCR for surround rear. 4 REL predator subwoofers Either marantz 8805a processor with ati class d amps handling all speakers OR a denon 8500 receiver for simplicity. The goal is to not have my audio for movies interfere with 2 channel. I decided to not make the Neoliths part of the movie experience because of the added cost associated with the matching 7,000 center channel. I also go through different gear so if let’s say tomorrow I sold my Neoliths, it won’t stop my movie experience. The audio from movies will be completely independent of the 2 channel. I also feel that having everything with inwalls speakers will make the room look cleaner. I want to only see the Neoliths and the constellation Monos along with the subwoofers in the corners. Nothing else. |
WC, Very informative comparison of the Block and Centaur. I gather that the 925 has the most detail/clarity with a little more brightness than the Block, with the Block in the middle with its neutrality, and the Centaur at the other end of the spectrum with its sweetness and more forgiving nature suggestive of tubes. Is that a reasonable summary? I hope you can keep the 925 long enough to A/B with the Merrill 116 when you break it in (or is Merrill sending you a nicely broken in pair?). Guido compared the 925 to a prototype Merrill 118, but your review comparison of the finished 116 and 925 will be the first review of its kind, eagerly anticipated by the audiophile community, not just this thread. Let's have the fireworks! |
@WC - thanks for the terrific comparison of the Constellation vs Block - great stuff and should be very useful for someone making that kind of choice. I would probably stick with Constellation, based upon your description. I'm guessing the Solution 711 probably is a combination of the best attributes of both. Also, REL Predators instead of JL audio? The RELs are definitely less expensive. Dave |
WC, your review was very good and non-biased which is the way reviews need to be written, full specs on each would be a nice touch to give the reader a better sense as to which they would like to add to their system any cabling would require a whole nother review that IMO would be unnessary when your in this level and would require entirely too much $$. Nice job. As for your HT I could get you in touch with my buddy who lives this stuff if you like. We both feel ML inwalls rock HT they are very good IMO. |
Hello Pokey77, my apologies for late answer... I have been travelling for the past week, attending a conference on euphoniums and tubas, and did not bring my laptop with me... So, posting was a little of a chore on my phone. Currently, I am not using a linestage at all. I am feeding my Esoteric X-01 digital signal directly into a Rowland Aeris DAC via a Cardas Clear SPDIF coax. Aeris is powered by the Rowland Power storage unit. Aeris then feeds directly into M925 or M535 via the fabulous Cardas Clear Reflection XLRs. In olden days, I had the Rowland battery-powered Criterion between Aeris and M925. This made a minor difference, as Criterion is extremely neutral.... Only difference I could detect was a barely perceivable softening of the overall tonality. Criterion is now withdrawn... Corus instead is in production... Its audio circuit is essentially the same as Criterion, except that it lacks the battery-powered supply, and instead sports a connector for PSU. Having said this, I have heard from reliable parties, such Alstewart, that the Rowland PSU makes an even larger enhancement on Corus than on Aeris.... As PSU is already so trannsformational on my Aeris, I venture to guess that a Corus+PSU may constitute a marked enhancement to my system. The other linestage that I used in my current system configuration was the ARC Ref3... Using mostly the SED Winged 550 tube as a rectifier, which I much preferred to the much warmer/bloated Tungsol . I found Ref3 to be less extended than Criterion, with a tendency to a pillowy darkness in a bass, which however was not as deep as Criterion, and a slight proneness to intermodulate in the treble, and so become harsh in complex passages. Ref3 also seemed to deliver less authority than Criterion. Best, Guido |
@guidocorona Guido, thanks for the detailed description. I had forgotten you were direct to amps. And nice to hear that the PSU was a significant elevation for the Aeris. If I remember correctly, you sold your Criterion Preamp to the doctor. I see he has posted a few times on his thread, it was one of my favorite threads here on the gon', along with WCs thread of course. @whitecamaross Hope the construction of your room and choosing of HT gear is going smoothly. |
Hello @Pokey77, you are correct, my Criterion went to the Doctor -- the one of reference DAC fame.... I suspectt that if Criterion had been powerable by PSU, Dr. Clott would have Criterion still in his system... But alas no, Criterion was conceived well before Jeff Rowland had started on the PSU project. If WC decides to try out the Rowland Corus linestage, I would warmly recommend he also purchases the Rowland Power Storage Unit (PSU) for it... If PSU does as much for Corus as it is doing for my Aeris DAC, it would make the already excellent Corus into a totally stunning linestage. G.
|
Since there's been some interest on this thread of the latest amps from Merrill Audio, I thought the following new review of the Element 118 mono amps from Hi-Fi Plus would be of interest. http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/merrill-audio-element-118-mono-power-amplifiers/ |
I am waiting... the synergy of this preamp with the centaur 2 is magical. I don’t want to jump the gun just yet because it’s an initial impression and everything seems to always sound good right out of the gate. The key is LIVING WITH IT and seeing if it turns into long listening sessions or not which is something that luxman and constellation have totally done with me. |
After reading all the available reviews so far on the Merrill amps, specifically by those reviewers hearing all of the 3 models, and of course, even from Merrill, the consensus has been, the 118s are, without question, the best of the three. So, at the " reasonable cost " to wc, I cannot imagine why wc would not get the 118s, which is my guess. |
mrdecibel, The 116 is powerful enough for the discriminating listener on any speaker--300 W into 8 ohms, 600 W into 4, 1200 W into 2, possibly 2000 W into 1, for electrostatics in HF. 118--400 W, 800 W, etc. Not much difference in percentage terms. Someone would need to do an A/B of the 116 and 118 to answer the question about sound quality. There was a self-serving comment by a dealer that the much more expensive 118 is better. Merrill himself said that even the stereo 114 sounds very close to the 116/118. If WC purchases the 116, that is clearly the sweet spot of the line, for powerful enough monos at a bargain price for what we hope is SOTA sound. Even the 118 is much cheaper than other SOTA contenders. |
I dont think Merrill is cheaper than other SOTA CLASS D Amps. Costs a lot less to build a Class D amp but for some reason the savings arent passed onto the consumer. Why?? Cause I guess they get away with it. Merrill has Bernardsville, NJ listed as where its located. Do you have ANY idea how expensive property is there? My Ex is from Liberty Corner,NJ (Next town over) and she attended Bernardsville High School. It costs a small fortune to live there. Guess THATS partially what your paying for...huge property taxes. |
All I have to say is that those gryphon colloseum monos listed are tempting lol. My situation is kinda like this: if I move out of my constellation to try another amp and they don’t check all boxes and I end up hating myself for that.... been there done that and this is where I am at with the constellation amps/preamp. |
WC, Be patient, especially now when your budget is tighter. In July or August with decent break-in of the 116, you will know whether it is SOTA. I am optimistic that it will beat any amp you have heard in most musically important ways, and be competitive with the 925. Gryphon is old school technology. So is Constellation, and you are about to find out whether the complete package of Merrill Christine and 116 beats everything you have heard. Is it possible to bypass the tube gain stage of the Lampi, and use only its dac with the gain stage of the Christine? I hope so, because that is probably the purest, most transparent way. RIAA makes a good point that for class D, Merrill is among the most expensive, although the Rowland 925 and maybe others hold that title. Yes, Bernardsville is expensive. I am following developments with ricevs on the latest class D from Purifi, Bruno Putzeys' new company. This module has specs that beat his own NC1200 from Hypex, which already had the best specs in the industry. NAD has licensed this module, and it is expected that their amps based on it to be about $4K. I heard the old NAD M22, a respectable class D almost as good as the Classe D200 and amp 2 that you have, so I anticipate that the new NAD will be near SOTA at a very cheap price. Peter Lyngdorf, admired by grey9hound, is partnered with Bruno in his new company, and is about to release his MX8400, an 8 channel 400W class D based on the new module. Lyngdorf's old 3400 model is already an excellent class D based on reviews. So class D has a great immediate future for SOTA sound at a very reasonable cost. Even though the present SOTA pecking order is probably 118, 116, 114, I likewise don't want to hate myself for jumping too soon when much cheaper class D amps using Purifi modules are coming. |
Update: The lampizator Pacific is set to leave my home. It is time to move on. i will be bringing the Jeff Rowland Corus Preamp with the optinal PSU along with the Esoteric K1 DAC. The goal here will be to do a full constellation set up VS a full rowland set up VS a full Merrill Audio set up. The dac will be the K1 (not to be confused with the K01) DAC. |
That's exciting WP... Head's up on PSU... It takes just about one week (Some 150 hours) to break in PSU completely), with the first 72 hours being the most critical. Corus is a different matter all together.... If it is a new unit, break-in will be quite extended.... in the 800 hours range. Please note that Corus will not turn on / light up until the ultracaps of PSU have reached a significant charge level... THis might be 15 to 20 minutes for the first time you turn on the devices. PSU should come with a Quick Start Guide, and Corus should have a full manual... If your units do not come with these documents in their respective/separate shipping cartons, drop me a line, and I will send them to you electronically. Yep, this also means that If you are receiving only one shipping carton, it means that you will have received Corus with its own / dedicated / old external half chassis power supply... Fine supply for sure, but it ain't a performer like PSU ... And PSU is in a full 15.5" wide chassis, just like Corus. Saluti, G. Saluti, G.
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WC, Congratulations on your new purist strategy to use a reference source Esoteric with all those complete preamp/amp systems. Guido uses a slightly different reference Rowland system--Aeris Dac with 925 amps, Esoteric (?) transport, using the gain stage of Aeris instead of Corus preamp. Your endeavor will be front page newsworthy. Meanwhile, how's the Merrill Christine going? I hope Merrill will let you keep the 116 enough time for this important project. |
All- lampizator was sacrificed in order to bring the rest of the Rowland pieces and a solid state dac. For now, I think a solid state dac will blend better with the Rowland and constellation because the lampizator is bringing more musicality and sweetness but both front ends are already sweet and musical. At times I find them a little too syrupy with the lampizator. These fronts don’t need added sweetness from the source, but rather a dac that is more about resolution so that they can compliment that resolution with their musical tonality. |
WC, By front end, I assume you are referring to the preamp, although some people include the source as the front end. We know that Constellation Centaur is on the sweet side, so the Virgo preamp probably is sweet also, although not as sweet as the ARC ref 10. Are you finding that the Merrill Christine preamp is sweet also? I am confused because initially you thought the Christine created synergy, and I asked you whether that meant that the Christine was neutral. I agree that the Esoteric is a good move, since in the past you had an Esoteric and found it to be detailed and neutral. Another possibility is that the Connie sound changes with the power grid quality, which you noted recently. This might be true of the other electronics as well, so be careful not to draw conclusions based on 1 day of listening when you might be lucky to have less noise in the power grid. It takes a long time to assess anything, as you average the good and bad days. I find my Shunyata Denali extremely helpful in reducing the variations between good and bad days. |
Just some more detail about my front end... The Esoteric device I use as a transport is the X-01 Limited. I feed its digital signal via the SPDIF coax RCA output to one of the two Rowland Aeris SPDIF BNC inputs via the vabulous Cardas Clear digital cable, which is I believe the top of the Cardas line of digital wires. Aeris feeds M925 or M535 via Cardas Clear Reflection XLRs, and the amps feed Vienna Die Muzik also via Cardas Clear Reflection.
I use Cardas Clear Beyond XL for all my power cords.... Cardas wiring is fantastically synergistic with my Rowland gear, and is integral to the magic that my system generates. G. |
tecknik, I hope Merrill gets the reputation he deserves, because although his stuff is expensive on an absolute basis, it seems reasonably priced in relation to the performance, unlike most of the big established names. I like to support the underdog newcomer if he really delivers. We will know from WC soon. |
@whitecamaross The SVS subs are undoubtedly, near the top of the list . The SB-16 Ultra and the PB-16 Ultra are their very best performing Subs. Take a look. https://www.svsound.com/pages/16-ultra-series |
I’ve listened to the constellation set up today for about 2 hours and I continue to be floored by what it does to me. I’m so impressed that I have it as THE BEST sound to come out of my Neoliths. I’ll be VERY VERY SHOCKED if the full Rowland set up beats it. Right now I’m VERY CLEAR on the fact that the the Rowland monos didn’t have the heavy punch in the low frequencies that the constellation Monos have. If I am going by my gut feeling and take an educated guess, I will say that the Rowland preamp and PSU unit will add more detail to the amps but it still won’t touch the combination of slam/soundstage from constellation. Yes, I could be very wrong but that’s WHY I decided to do a full Rowland set up in order to be fair. As far as the Merrill preamp, it has tremendous detail and extremely dynamic. It’s so dynamic that it almost startles me at times which can be a bad thing if there’s too much of it at once. That said, I can’t do a full analysis of it until the Monos arrive next month so I’m going to not give much in depth analysis on the preamp but rather just try to enjoy it and take notes. I’ve only had it connected to the constellation Monos so maybe I’ll try the Rowland’s with it this weekend. Lots of stuff doing on .... |
I’ve listened to the constellation set up today for about 2 hours and I continue to be floored by what it does to me. I’m so impressed that I have it as THE BEST sound to come out of my NeolithsThis is the Constellation Virgo III Pre-amp with the Constellation Centaur II Mono amps ..... Correct ? How does the all Constellation compare to the Chrstine/Constellation Centaur II setup ? Also, i am sure most of us do not know which cables are on which Equipment . Everything changes so much that it is very hard to keep up . For example when you say I am waiting... the synergy of this preamp with the centaur 2 is magical. I don’t want to jump the gun just yet because it’s an initial impression and everything seems to always sound good right out of the gate. The key is LIVING WITH IT and seeing if it turns into long listening sessions or not which is something that luxman and constellation have totally done with meHave you kept track of which cords are better on which equipment . It would be hard (for me anyway)not to try the different cords ,for example, on the above setup. If it is magical like you say, then i would be tempted to try different cords in different positions and on different equipment to see if you could make it even more magical. There are just so many choices or combinations with all that you have . Do you ever write down what is what and try to keep track of which combination is special ? I was just curious . There is enough different options with what you have , it could be Maddening, (at least for me anyway),cause I personally would have to try all of the choices and combinations of cords and equipment, . You know what i mean ? LOL |
I spoke to Merrill and they said to not worry about powercords with their preamp because they’ve not had any positive results by adding expensive powercords. The external power supply does all the work for this preamp so I’m not going to drive myself crazy with it. Current cables are nordost Odin 1 speaker cables, nordost Odin 1 powercord on the dac, Shunyata alpha nr on the constellation preamp, stock powercords on the centaur 2 Monos, wireworld world platinum 7 & 8 xlr. |
Grey9hound makes valid points that all details of the setups (cables, etc.) should be noted, otherwise it gets too confusing and hard to draw conclusions about preamp/amp character. That said, I suspect that preamp/amp differences are much greater than cable differences. WC, Even though slam/soundstage seems to be your greatest priority, it would be a shame to reject the components that feature detail and accuracy, thereby presenting more of the music. At age 25, my first serious system had the HUGE Magneplanar Tympani 1D which had a much bigger soundstage than anything. I was fascinated and drunk with banging my head in 110 dB blasting. That phase in my audio life lasted about 1 year as I realized I was missing a lot of clarity and real life detail/naturalness. I have been in the clarity camp for the last 41 years. |