Thank you guys.
Tekton videos are uploaded and will go live next week.
Tekton videos are uploaded and will go live next week.
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
20,890 responses
I personally do not feel 82 db is loud. Coffee grinders, food processors / mixers / blenders, garbage disposals, are all kitchen appliances that are in the 80 + db range, when in use. Look up " Common environmental noise levels ". Many sites available. I also have to say.............Using $20K AQ power cords on 1 amp and stock cords on the other is a deal breaker for me, if I wanted to do a serious A/B amp demo. Jay, we all know ( and this was to be a teaching video ) of how power cords / speaker cables / interconnect cables, change dramatically, the characteristics of what we are hearing. For years, this has been the reality ( before you got involved with this hobby ). Using a Hafler DH 220 vs an Adcom GFA 545 ( of course with IEC inlets, and probably too low end for you ) would showcase differences in power cables. Always, and Enjoy ! |
Don’t you feel the Tektons at 77 “‘ are way to tall for your 8 ft ceiling? 10ft ceilings with your room dimensions would be a big improvement with all your demos. The room, the room, the room. Do enjoy your videos. Playing them thru my modest audio system upconverted to DSD 512 with a 85” Sony display is pretty cool . |
Here are my thoughts on the evaluations plus my picks from each evaluation! https://youtu.be/QI1tc8agpqo |
Are the Tekton Ulfberht completely broken in ? They are not new are they ? How long have they been running in a system ? They will sound awful if they are new and not broken in. Flat sounding and ,lacking in Bass and Dynamics with be how they sound, if they have not been properly run in for 150-200 hours |
The poll will be an additional measurement to gauge what was the general feeling of the presentations. That's about it. Tektons won't be touching my boulders. Why would they? Most have gryphon as the better combo so why break my back moving the monos off the stand so i can remove the footers which are making the amps sound harsh and congested? Regardless of which set up i use, you will hear the tektons with electronics that most tekton owners don't have. I finished shooting my video today with regards to my impressions of the 2 evaluations. You will finally know what MY intention was with the shootout. You'll have to watch the entire 40 min video to understand my points and what i was ultimately trying to teach some of you. Be on the lookout tomorrow at noon. |
dep14, I said it was loud, not absurdly loud( adjectives and adverbs matter). At 82db avg, and 10db to 20db peaks...........you get the point. I actually have a number of powered studio monitors (that I prefer over Genelec) that are used for specific purposes. My main rig in a purpose built room will do plenty killer impact (quality dynamic range) when I or the music call for it. A system can only show dynamics if the music is dynamic. You don't get dynamics by turning up the volume up, all you get is louder music (nothing wrong with that). Which is a good segue to mentioning that another area in which I thought Boulder combo did better in was dynamic contrast. Jay, you may or may not remember awhile back in the thread there was a discussion of listening levels. The upside of cleaner more accurate sound reproduction is ......duh.... we enjoy it more etc...the downside is it entices us to turn the volume up (another duh). Take care of your hearing while you are young so you can still enjoy the music 30, 40, 50.....years from now. Google the charts for safe listening levels for various lengths of time. Sorry for wet blanket public service announcement. Jay, why would you think that me in particular or any of the readers (of course some will want to know) of this thread would be interested in a raw score tallying of how many preferred one over the other? A better question is, what is the value to you? Help at least me understand why. It is not a win/lose competition. You already have all the descriptive data. We have read the responses. And you know all the incredibly sub optimal ways many (perhaps most) are listening. ???????? And for those that feel motivated enough to say that they would like to see the results, please explain the value that info has to you, not just...."Uh...curious." I am not being flippant, I hope to learn something from someone. Hopefully the Tektons will be able to taste the lovely nectar the Boulders dispense before they fly, using the same songs at the same 82 db level (because mic responses can change with level) as you did for the B and G comparo. Too bad if they don't get the opportunity. Please let us know in advance which cables/ancillaries you are using before playing the Tektons ( yes, you are petty good at doing that). Thanks. |
Assuming it is C weighted... I wouldn’t consider 82db to be absurdly loud, it’s a shade loud.. but on a clean system like WC runs, with excellent bass and impact... it’s not crazy loud. I get a sense some of you should just pick up some powered Genelec studio monitors and listen nearfield if you simply want accurate speakers with little bass and an absurd amount of upper midrange and treble. Why have a system that can push it a bit and show dynamics, if you don’t use it? Whether it’s a bass drum on a killer rock track, or a huge bass drum, or timpani impact during an orchestral movement... I want it to have an impact in my room. Interesting on the Tekton’s... I think at 3k the Double Impact was a pretty cool speaker that did a lot right, but when I heard the D.I.S.E. at the same house, I didn’t hear a whole lot more that you got with it, and the same day I heard the ULF’s... just felt they were pretty much more of the same, no way I felt they were worth 4x more at the time. OHM’s are sort of similar in that you typically get "more" as you go up, but John the owner is very honest and open about it. Though OHM’s have a very different presentation. Double Impact however, would have been a fun party speaker back in college! |
@golfnutz: I actually did have 30a outlets installed a while ago and i had them taken down to 20a instead so now I need to undo what i did. Ugh 😩 When it comes to the Niagara 5000: I am using an audioquest dragon hc Powercord on it. When it comes to shunyata, well I gave my opinion on it on my last live chat. I will answer questions live in the future instead of having to repeat myself. I gave my opinion on shunyata on camera so maybe someone who was part of the chat can articulate what i have already explained. I will try to give everyone a heads up next time I go live so that hopefully you all have time to make it. That was my fault. I have created a poll on my YouTube. You should be able to see it if you go to my channel. Choose which presentation you preferred and check out the results for yourself! |
Jay, that relaxed presentation is part of same experience I had, which I’ll never forget. Basically, the volume control is begging you to turn up the volume because the louder it gets, the better it gets. I totally understand how you could have put the Boulder into protection mode, but in fairness to Boulder (and Alexx), they kind of say you should be using 30A in the manual (which I’m sure you’re aware of), or at least they make you aware of it. |
Instead of taking the time and contributing to so much of the petty bs wouldn’t it be better to answer more questions like, Shunyata sigma Ethernet cable, no follow up’ changing out the Shunyata 6000 V2 for AQ 5000, no mention until asked. I mean that’s a pretty significant change out for it not to be mentioned by you wc, what pc worked best from the wall to the aq 5000 these have a pretty significant impact on a system even at your level not to be addressed. Others have asked good questions with no reply. if this thread is to share the knowledge and experience you have gained over the last several years then stick with it and stop contributing to the bs. I maybe wrong about the follow up on the questions above I just don’t follow has much these days due to the pettiness anymore until lately due to the Grphon and Boulder which is quite funny since you slammed Boulder some time back for being sterile and lifeless I believe, but isn’t this what this hobby is all about growing and learning what works and doesn’t. The videos and system sure have come along way. Spectacular system. |
I will be filming my impressions soon. That said, i am going to create a poll on youtube and i want you all to vote so you can see what the overall feeling was between both set ups. I am sure you all want to know the general feeling from both demos. I will leave the poll live for 2 days. 82db is actually not as loud as you’d think because it sounds so effortless and relaxed, but you are correct when you take the 82db figure at face value, it can be loud. Better said, yes it is loud but it doesn't feel loud. It's like a car that doesn't feel like you're going 100mph but you are ... |
To add distinction to the difference, I think video 2 magnified the differences between the Bs and the Gs. The character/presentation of each was in starker contrast than in video 1. This manifested itself in pushing the two farther apart (not in quality of each, but in personality of each). My impression was that the the Gs were too technicolor/saturated, with slight compression compared to the Bs less compressed, pure silky, listen all day presentation. So, I guess (for me) that leads to the conclusion that under these conditions (whatever changes you made) have lead to an increase in system resolution? Just a quick hypothosis: Those listening through less than full range speakers may, on average, prefer the sound of the Gs because they are adding a bit of what they are listening through is lacking. Of course, controlling for the fact that people already have a general preference for the type of presentation of either the Gs or the Bs. Hope that made sense. Reaction, Jay? Also, you can share now how these differences played out in your room.....don't worry, you won't cannibalize/hurt your numbers on Youtube. My preference is the Bs, with overall sound quality on vid 2 edging out sound quality of vid 1. |
Don't you all worry, i shot my videos with tekton yesterday...82db and full Gryphon. NO BOULDER with Tekton because boulder monos are on top of the center stage 1.5 footers and they take 3 weeks to settle. The boulders are not sounding good at all right now which is what is supposed to happen with the footers in the first 7-10 days before they begin to settle. Also, since you all are claiming that tektons are highly efficient then Gryphon should be more than plenty for the speaker. I shot like 6-8 songs yesterday which I will share with you all towards the end of the year. The tektons were spiked and positioned based on what Tekton themselves told me to do. |
My preference didn't change with the second video, I still preferred the sound of the Boulder, vs Gryphon. Although, I do think the Gryphon got a bit closer to the Boulder compared to the first video. I feel like the Boulder digs fractionally deeper with less effort allowing you to hear better undertones. The resolution on the Boulder is one of the best I've heard. Price/Sound ratio, I have to give that to Gryphon though. Thanks again Jay. |
Hey folks, I crank music all of the time, and I never experience a problem with amplifiers clipping or woofers bottoming out. Nor, do I have a problem with my ears, as peaks are not constant. I own / put together a system, that caters to my wants, needs and desires, and, that did not cost me an arm and a leg ( been there, done that ). My 50 plus years of experience, as a hobbyist, an audio journeyman, and growing up around live, unamplified music, has given me the ability to know what systems are for what people ( particularly, for me ). It does not matter how much you spend, but how and where you spend it. The Ulf’s system will likely breath easy during the " death row " song, as this is my prediction, and a reason I like products like that. Enjoy ! |
Here is the final evaluation of the Boulder vs Gryphon: https://youtu.be/_WSqnmftp18 Who do you have as your favorite after 2 videos ? Ps: Alexx are finally set up. We spent 4 hours setting them up and measured as much as possible. We went back to the rear port approach instead of the front and well it sounds gracious and incredible. Comments in the room where: " This is the best I have ever heard an Alexx sound and i have set up multiple pairs of Alexx in the past" " The clarity and organic feeling is spooky" " We need to become a Boulder dealer" Of course I got trigger happy and blasted the song " death row" and as soon as the bass hit, the left speaker made a crackling noise and shut off briefly and the light on the left boulder flashed red briefly and then back to white which according to the manual, it means the boulder ran out of available current which makes sense because I also have the niagara 5000 connected on the left outlet. 30a outlets will need to be done very soon. |
Gentlemen - we all contribute to Jay’s thread. That doesn’t mean we all agree. But what we should all agree to do is respect each other. There’s a lot of things I can elaborate on - but I haven’t because I didn’t want to seam disrespectful. The attacks on each other? I’ve said before we’ll all have urine on us if we keep urinating on each other. All during Christmas? I mean - how awesome is Jay’s system? Can’t we pick what we like and respectfully put aside what we don’t? It doesn’t mean we can’t say we disagree - but how about whatever is said, that it’s said nicely? Am I really saying this? Jay has what I would refer to as a top 1% system and we attack each other? Really? How about, WE TREAT EACH OTHER WITH RESPECT and one day we can try and do a Zoom meeting together? Or better yet, start our own organization - we could call it "The Jay Club"! I mean, we’re unlimited in the things we can do if we give this a positive, healthy perspective. HOW ABOUT STOP URINATING ON EACH OTHER? Now - for something I was going to say earlier but didn’t. I’m bringing it up because I want everyone to know I speak / type the truth and because I hope Jay (and everyone else) is aware of this aspect of the dealer / client relationship. I represent cables - if you remember, I said I hope one day to visit and share with Jay the best cables I found and see how they compare to the best cables he’s found (and at the rate I’m working - I’ll be dead before I get a moment to myself). I said this because 1 - Jay sometimes has different objectives / goals then I do (maybe that has changed since he’s obtained some of the best equipment available). I strive for the highest fidelity, which makes bad recordings sound terrible. But - it also makes great recording unmatched in the listening experience. In the past, Jay referenced sweetness as a desirable trait, and 2 - because when dealers hand out equipment to clients to try, they usually have no control over the system it’s installed in and how it’s evaluated. In only a few instances I’ve found a system that had very high quality equipment and was optimally set up with proper room acoustics and well recorded music was played to clearly evaluate and demonstrate differences between components. Also, only changing a single component at a time is necessary to determine differences. There’s other things I’m leaving out here (to be brief) but I hope everyone is getting what I’m trying to communicate. Even in a 1% system like Jay’s, and with the upmost respect, humility and admiration for both Jay, his equipment and his system - I wouldn’t just hand over something and say have at it. Experience has burned me 98% of the time I’ve done this in the past. Literally (unfortunately). And Jay, please don’t take this in any way as negative - you really are a top 1 percent audiophile, I know myself and most of us (with a few exceptions) can only dream about the equipment you rotate! We all appreciate what you do and I’ve supported you many times in the past and will continue to do so. Your forum is EXCELLENT and thank you for all your contributions :-) Just my "little fish in a very big pond / ocean" input :-) |
Jay, You said, "You might as well tell Steve you aren’t buying anything but you will give him discounts on his future medical needs for his efforts to accommodate you constantly. "If you aren’t buying the GT audio speakers, there is no praising you can do here, on myjourney, that will make people believe you. It isn’t the money ( you’re a doctor so you can afford them) so it is clearly that they don’t do it for you and you are just trying to do something nice here for Steve by dropping good feedback about their speakers. Be upfront with them before you go see them next week. Don't waste their time. Tell them straight up YOU ARE NOT BUYING ANYTHING. Don't mislead them. I’ll leave it at that." So, this is all about your own salesmanship mission here. Nothing wrong with that--you have a right to promote your own interests. I wish you the financial success you certainly deserve. I have thanked you many times for your informative videos and posts here. If anyone wants to confirm for themselves what I have said, they can listen to videos of faxer (Steve). All this blabber and Merry Christmas wishes are insincere if the hostility originating from some people other than me continues. Therefore, DO NOT continue to disparage my motives as if I am a typical customer trying to take business away from brick and mortar dealers and get discounts elsewhere. If Steve were selling mediocre stuff, I wouldn't promote it, but would just be silent. And HOW DARE YOU venture into my medical ethics by saying I would "give him discounts on his future medical needs for his efforts to accommodate you constantly." My contribution here is to publicize audio greatness for those who are interested. Why not have my own thread? I considered it, but since you and many others value clarity in sound, my thoughts are of general interest here. Also, I am taking up the challenge by others to do a video of my own system. Steve's GTA system, together with my own ancillary components in his great room, are most informative for showing what I like. I hope you realize that you personally have much to gain from my posts here, as long as you give me respect. |
We all get carried away sometimes. WC reached a breaking point this time with Viber as he has other times in past, as I have, and as others have. By same token, Viber and Dave and probably others have reached breaking point with some of my posts and WC and I have sparred on occasion (lucky for him it is just on forum and not in the MMA ring, haha, definitely kidding about that one). I think it’s cool that faxer allows customers to bring gear in and test stuff. That ain’t all that common and much respect for that. Nobody said GTA doesn’t sell well and glad to hear it does. Fact remains it’s never made it to WC’s room so still kinda out of place for this thread despite endless promotion as WC mentions. But if he invited posting the video I guess that’s WC’s prerogative. Looking forward to next Gryphon Boulder video and especially finally hearing WC thoughts on how they compare. |
All- A couple of things: My comments above in regards to dealers and buyers are just a hint of a future YouTube video I’ll be uploading. This came from conversations I’ve had with several dealers who are sick and tired of the bs. I only agreed to do it if they can also take criticism about their practices at times and they agreed. I can’t go on " assault" (as some might call it) if it is not done on both ends. Many dealers can’t talk or get things off their chest because they are afraid that it will impact their business but they want to be heard nonetheless. Putting it all out there will make some realize (including me) how not cool it is to do we are doing or what we used to do in the past. Wasting dealer’s time as well as not caring about customer’s needs are a real thing. All I’m going to do is articulate these so that the whole world can hear both camps pain points. Moving away from the topic above, Boulder vs Gryphon: I had mentioned on the video that this will be a 2 part video where the only difference is the cabling used. You all heard part one with one cable set up and today you will hear the second video with the same songs but a different cable set up. This will accomplish 2 things: 1. Make some people believers that cables DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE 2. Evaluate the presentation with different cables to see if perhaps your opinion has changed as to which set up you prefer Part 2 of Boulder vs Gryphon releases today at 12pm. Let me hear your feedback and as always please use headphones whenever possible. |
I've visited this thread on and off for a good period of time. I've used it to gain knowledge of SS Power Amp's The recent Support from Video Footage to present a Brand has been very well received by myself, a extension for many to take a seat in a audition room, and a great way to allow a person to experience a Reputable Brand delivering a well thought out presentation. I stopped using dealerships many years in the past, and used HiFi Events more often to gather information about particular Brands. To be able to listen to a Presentation in a Purpose Produced Room with a careful matching of interfaces between devices, is the added benefit to making the time to enjoy the experience. |
Jay, why are you creating/encouraging an episode of Jerry Springer to breakout here? You don't like it when others have attacked you, and yet you go full out assault mode. What gives? Myself and others have taken the time and effort to give you feedback about the latest video and you don't discuss those topics here. Agon is for exchanges of thoughts/ideas/perceptions of all things audio in general and a thread in particular of the OP. Comments on Youtube are just that, comments with no expectation of a dialogue (generally). I found it odd that you asked a few posts back why no one mentioned cables. This was a comparison of Boulder vs. Gryphon, not a cable comparo. If you do a cable comparo we will evaluate that video. Strangely (to me), you phrase some of your questions as if a dealer might want to know the responses---like a consumer survey, if you will. And now you seem to don the cap of audio dealer/audio consumer ombudsman. Please share with us your desire to do this. That topic sounds like it should have a separate thread. Also, some of the audio gear chest pumping in a few of the last number of pages is quite tedious. Jay, perhaps the allure of possibly having a huge impact on Youtube (which can as you know bring in 20 to 50 large/mo, according to those with hundreds of videos and tens of millions of views), as well as a particular perceived status as an Expert in a given area has you firmly in its grasp. It is impossible to serve two or more masters. I rarely read the Agon forums a couple of years ago (but have been an audio enthusiast for twenty times as long). I stumbled upon your thread at that point, reading through ( 100 or 120 pages?) and enjoying most of the posters' experiences/knowledge/wisdom that they shared with you on your journey. I joined Agon to be able to post on your thread (onIy if I thought I had something worthwhile to share, hence my small number of posts). Unfortunately, it seems many of the wise and gifted (not all) don't post here anymore. Time/people move on, I guess. Perhaps it is because your raison detre (I own all my gear and I am not compromised in my opinions about gear from advertisers like magazine reviewers are compromised) may have changed. You are now in a similar predicament as the mag reviewers, your opinions/motives potentially compromised by the monetary aspects of your business model. I am only saying that the perception of potential compromise is now real. There is no potential for compromise if you have no potential monetary gain. Now, you could have more integrity than Mother Theresa, but there now exists the potential for bias (covert or overt) in your motives/opinions. If you desire huge Youtube success, I encourage you 100 percent.(you seem to have passion and a fair sized ego(not a knock)-- both can help with success)....but let's talk nuts and bolts audio here on Agon with you sharing your views on what you hear in your room more often and less frat house arm-wrestling. While it seems like this wasn't a "Let's all sing Kumbaya! " post, I took the time and effort because the thread has value to me and I would like it to be all the best it can be. |
Stay tuned for that video. I'll lay it all out when it comes to dealers and buyers. Here's a quick example: What does a dealer need to do to earn your business: 1. Ask you questions about your current set up and not focus solely on the component you're calling about Then I'll turn the tables and call out the bs that buyers do: 1. Calling every dealer and then leveraging dealers against each other which later leads to dealers getting scolded by manufacturers for discounting or shipping across their territories 2. Using the stupid ass " let me talk to the wife" excuse which is the oldest trick in the book. Dealers have heard all the excuses and this one is one of the top excuses. Trust me I'll call out dealer bs and buyer bs. This is something that I have never seen done on social media but i am here to call it like it is. |
I appreciate Jay’s input. However, we are losing sight of a bigger more important issue that most dealers won’t take the time to accommodate the concerns and requests of their customers. Even if that means allowing a customer to listen to a pair of speakers with their own gear. We have even allowed this to happen in our store with customers bringing in gear to hear on inexpensive bookshelf speakers. I know Jay plans a specific video addressing the numerous problems that audiophiles face with respect to dealers. I look forward to that video. |
I did give Steve the green light to post the video of his system playing the same music i recorded recently so that perhaps a comparison can be drawn. That said, the issue isn’t that, but rather the constant "ranchera" that viber plays here in regards to the GT AUDIO speakers which he now claims don’t do something that his vintage speakers do and which is sufficient enough for him to not buy the GT Audio speakers. I don’t believe there has ever been a single person here who has promoted a product so intensely (as viber has done) but yet they don’t own it ( while having the means to do so). Even tekton owners (greyhound) who actually owns a tekton speaker doesn’t come here praising it. He likes the speakers and most IMPORTANTLY owns them which speaks volumes about his beliefs. Another example is Kren who I don’t believe owns a wilson speaker but he likes it a lot yet you don’t see him pushing wilson. I’m sure if he could buy his dream wilson , he probably would have it right now ( if he doesn’t already). My point is if someone loves a product for x and y reason, they WOULD OWN IT if money isn't a problem. |
Listen up. I don’t care if anybody on this thread buys our speakers I really couldn’t care less. The speakers sell themselves once the customer comes in to our show room we don’t need this thread to sell our speakers. The fact of the matter is we are back ordered and the only reason we posted the video was I got consent from Jay to post videos because we were talking about the Shure MV 88 + microphones and how it would improve the audio on our videos compared to the iPhone mic. Merry Xmas |
Ok viber... I’m not going to start anything but you should tell the general public here what you do with rane and how you pretty much use lamp cords for speaker cables and you boost the hell out of your rane eq on the high frequencies. I can’t go into more detail than that but it would be good that you tell everyone how you really listen to music: full blast on high frequencies and no folks I’m not exaggerating. That said, this doesn’t matter to me because it is your gear. What matters to me is that you come here to praise gt audio speakers, once, twice, three times, four times and on and on and you STILL are rocking some old speakers because you claim they are better at something than the gt audio speakers that you just listened to, have listened to and will listen to in a week or so? You might as well tell Steve you aren’t buying anything but you will give him discounts on his future medical needs for his efforts to accommodate you constantly. If you aren’t buying the GT audio speakers, there is no praising you can do here, on my journey, that will make people believe you. It isn’t the money ( you’re a doctor so you can afford them) so it is clearly that they don’t do it for you and you are just trying to do something nice here for Steve by dropping good feedback about their speakers. Be upfront with them before you go see them next week. Don't waste their time. Tell them straight up YOU ARE NOT BUYING ANYTHING. Don't mislead them. I’ll leave it at that. |
Jay, You are merely ranting, sorry to say. I didn't want to say this before, but since you brought up the Rane, I will tell you that on my visit of Dec 23, I brought my tweaked Rane, bought from mrdecibel, and put it in place of the Pass preamp. The Rane was first used as a line stage with flat settings, no EQ at all. I asked Steve to listen to the Rane using his familiar recordings. He immediately said that the Rane was more forward, neutral and detailed than the Pass, but most of his customers would prefer the laid back and sweeter quality of the Pass. Then I adjusted the Rane several ways to illustrate effects on vocal tonality, and HF percussive transients. He said the experience was an eye opener. In an upcoming video when I bring all my components, I will reveal more. He suggested that I take the Rane to our audio repairman to get better caps, etc. I don't want to touch my precious Rane bought from mrdecibel, but I will take my original Rane to the repairman. I thanked Steve for his great idea. YOU need to open your mind, listen for yourself just as Steve did, and stop your uninformed remarks about how a very cheap component can't be any good. I have praised your expensive equipment for their sonic qualities. Now it is time for you to show equal respect. BTW, I am one of Steve's doctors, and our friendship remains. How do you know any of your dealer/business contacts are really your friends? It is true that I have diminished HF hearing, but that is not why I boost the HF. I used the same settings I use at home for Steve's system, and he agreed with me about the benefits of the EQ the way I use it. That's what he heard with his ears. Whether I buy the speakers is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. Even if I don't end up buying the GTA, my analysis is truthful because I have no hidden agenda. You can listen to the videos yourself, be honest with what you hear, and tell us what you hear. I asked the others here to do the same. If some people prefer warm, rolled off sound, that is their privilege. I hope that this is still a free country after Jan 20. Most important, I believe that since you value clarity, although maybe not as much as I do, that you would benefit by considering the GTA speaker with 2-6 subs. I spent most of my time listening to it without the subs. I heard excellent mid bass from the panels alone. I brought a recording that has soft 36 Hz bass. It was there, although we both agreed that subs are necessary for low bass. This system does everything better than anything I have heard in my life. I told Steve and will level with you here, that I am not sure that the GTA quite equals my combined Audiostatic 240/Enigmacoustics Sopranino super tweeters for clarity at low/moderate SPL's. Of course, for large scale music, the GTA kills my speakers for dynamics, bass extension, realistic imaging. My speakers may be superior for small scale music clarity. I will know more when I bring my components to his house next Wed. I was still impressed by how even the euphonic Lampi and Pass still showed the superiority of the speaker compared to anything currently available. I can only imagine how your SOTA source and electronics would show off the GTA + subs. Steve is an honorable audio professional who respects his customers' needs for thorough evaluation, and routinely welcomes his distant customers to bring anything they want to his system. Most of the dealers I have met are nowhere near this degree of professionalism and true caring about customers' desires. I intend this post to be friendly and helpful, not as a troll. I respect your business goals and don't interfere with that. You can cultivate customers who share your approach. In addition, I sincerely hope you can appreciate the great accomplishments of the designer who I believe has the best speaker for nearly every sonic criteria, and one day seriously consider it. I am not getting any commissions for sales. I just want to share truth with people who share my passions. |