My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
For easy reference. https://youtu.be/VEjje1WCvFw--M6 + Soulution 530 integrated https://youtu.be/zhkL0tjPui8--Kharma + Boulder To me, M6 is more neutral, clear and focused, for Iron Hand--voice, guitar, ambience and openness. |
Next video will display Fyne Audio speakers. Stay tuned for that ! And that’s "fyne" if you also prefer the beautiful $14,999 speaker over the $172k M6. Liking something doesn’t make it better. It’s more about your pallette and what you can or can’t handle sonically. Use my videos to simply steer your own journey somewhat. All i asked was for an "open mind".... Nothing else. I said it before and I'll say it again, don't prosecute the m6 without giving it a fair trial... |
I was able to sit and listen to the same Kharma/Boulder setup at SunCoast last week when I was picking up my Diablo 300. Also listened to the smaller Kharma S7 with a Hegel integrated that displayed the Dharma beauty. I have not been a fan of the Hegel presentation but I could sense I would love these in my 14’ x 16’ room with my new amp. I really shouldn’t visit SunCoast often... |
I agree that the Kharma setup sounds better than WC's current setup with the m6. However, like he mentioned, a bit of a difference in electronics. This brings back the question - which is better: 1) Less expensive electronics + more expensive speakers 2) More expensive electronics + less expensive speakers I'm sure it depends upon the speakers and the electronics being used. However, so far, we seem to have two cases that support #2: a. Wilson setup > Magico setups b. Kharma setup > Magico setups Either that, or folks just don't prefer the Magico overall. We will definitely find out more, once WC brings in more expensive electronics to try with the Magicos. Dave |
I understand when people like different things. I don’t take it personal guys. That said, there is one minute detail you all are forgetting...just a tiny one...the source you all heard is $120k and the music server another 30k plus the Boulder 1110/1160...so yes...200k in electronics...just a minute detail...just a tiny one :-) You've heard the m6 with less than half of that money. I am hoping you all don't expect expect for a 172k speaker to make electronics sound twice as good as what they are? |
By a significant margin, the Kharma's offer superior reproduction of this track, which we've heard many times before and recently on the Magicos. Go Kharma/Boulder!! They make the track via thenMagicos sound kind of thin, undernourished, slightly hollow, and the full roundness of the voice is missing. |
here is one video i took over a suncoast audio: Kharma Speakers and Boulder 1160/1110 https://youtu.be/zhkL0tjPui8 My apologies for the mic clipping. I just noticed it!. Ugh... Well, at least use the video to give you somewhat of an idea as to what the combo sounds like. |
Next week, i will be introducing my 2 new amp stands from Artesania which will replace the critical mass stands. The model is the Artesania Master KIO and here are the specs: EXTERNAL STRUCTURE INTERNAL SUSPENDED STRUCTURE TEFLON CILINDERS LINEAR ARMS ISOLATION DISCS DECOUPLING BASE |
The DACs i have owned prior to MSB Reference: -Lampizator Pacific -Chord Dave -PS Audio Directstream -Esoteric K1 -DCS Vivaldi with clock and upsampler -DCS Rossini with clock The only direct comparison pricewise is the Vivaldi, but i am a believer the Rossini with clock is the best bang for the buck from DCS and it gives you over 90% (IMO) of Vivaldi’s performance. That said, the conversation here needs to be more around each manufacturer’s "house sound" or flavor. Both are excellent and we really are knit-picking . What i can CONTINUE to echo here is that synergy is KEY. In some systems, DCS could add sparkle to lifeless speakers while the MSB can add more naturalness and organic tonality to speakers that are extremely neutral. Could you go wrong for buying either, HELL NO. That said, the following items have arrived: (soon you will find out) -New stereo power amplifier (purchased) -New Power conditioner (purchased) -New top end powercords (loaner) -New Music Server (purchased) -New top end speaker cables (loaner) -New top end xlrs (loaner) -New top end ethernet cable (loaner) |
So that we can orient ourselves in advance of this DAC shootout to better understand which hi-end DACs you’ve owned WC to frame your comments in light of past ownership, you obviously have Rossini now, and most recently had Vivaldi. Others I recall are only three. An Esoteric cd player that you really liked and I think you’ve mentioned some Lampizator and Chord Dave. I’m sure I’m forgetting others but it’s been so long. What else have you had at the 5-figure level or above that might be relevant for comparison purposes? |
Agree with grey9hound. Also, the big advantage for me of 2 mono amps vs the same circuitry in a dual mono stereo chassis is that I can lift each mono by myself, but not the nearly 2x heavier stereo. Otherwise the sound of 2 monos vs dual mono stereo is nearly identical. For example, the D'ag monos are each manageable by weight. |
I have tried bot Mono and Stereo of the same vintage/brand. IMO I do not think there is a huge difference . maybe a little quieter , a little better clarity and separation of instruments. I personally believe most of this to be power related. Monos are always higher powered compared to their Stereo brethren, sometimes double . If you ever noticed the THD or distortion rating on an amp at like some amps are rated for example 100 watts . If you only use or need about 10 watts the distortion is much less at 10 watts than 100 , especially if your speaker can operate on 10 watts. The problem is when you have speakers the are pretty in efficient like 85 or 86 db and the MFG says you can use any amp from 20 watts to 300 watts . The 300 watt amp will sound much cleaner (free of distortion) if and when you turn it up past background music See here https://pro.harman.com/insights/harman-pro/new-insights-into-the-dangers-of-using-power-amplifiers-t... So if your speakers are highly efficient as in most horn types. Like 92-115 db efficient or it is actually called speaker sensitivity. I do not think a couple of mono amps that are capable of 300watts into 8 ohms vs a stereo amp that is capable of 100 watts into each channel will sound much better . and that is just an example . I am not saying the power rating is enough or too little . It will depend on the speaker. I know most speaker types sound better with more power . When i was in high school the thought was that you could blow the speakers in your car with a high powered amp, that was rated higher than what your speakers called for . that is not the case , unless you try to run 100 watts into a 20 watt speaker and rank it full bore for 8 hours or something like that . I have always found that speakers generally sound better over amped ,as long as it is not outrageous. The reason is that you a not using all of that power because you do not need to use much of the available power to get them to sound loud . I learned that most speakers are blown by trying to play them too loud for that amp that you are using. the speakers or speaker drivers blow due to the high rate of distortion or clipping which turns out that clipping is DC voltage Here is an explanation of clipping from wikipedia : Clipping is a form of waveform distortion that occurs when an amplifier is overdriven and attempts to deliver an output voltage or current beyond its maximum capability. Driving an amplifier into clipping may cause it to output power in excess of its power rating. In the frequency domain, clipping produces strong harmonics in the high-frequency range (as the clipped waveform comes closer to a squarewave). The extra high-frequency weighting of the signal could make tweeter damage more likely than if the signal was not clipped. In general, the distortion associated with clipping is unwanted, and is visible on an oscilloscope even if it is inaudible |
Sure, big Boulder stereo should be better than any mono Pass and most others. That's not what I wanted to emphasize. The correct way to build power amps is to go mono blocks. Some brands don't even have stereo amps, only mono. As for the thought that in the end everything is to a degree a compromise, there is no argument about that. But the spirit is as few compromises as possible, especially at the highest level of equipment costing funny amounts. It's hard to compare Soulution and Boulder by only watching those videos. They appear to have quite different house sound. Like them both. |
YES. The issue of mono vs stereo is a small part of sound quality. If you took the circuit of a dual mono stereo amp, and put each channel in a separate mono chassis, the sound would be almost identical. But in the real world, things are more complex. Comparing the mono amps to the stereo amps of the same company, the mono amps have different circuits with more power, so the mono amps are likely to be significantly better as though you have a wholly different product. Years ago, I had the Krell KSA 50 stereo class A amp. I then compared the KMA 100 monos, the same design in a double power mono version, which were significantly more extended and revealing in HF. It wasn't merely a difference of more separation, no crosstalk--it was a markedly different sound. That said, it appears that there is a general house sound for each company. D'ag and Pass are in the sweet camp. Boulder and Soulution are in the neutral/revealing camp. I suspect I would prefer even the stereo Soulution integrated to any mono from D'ag and Pass. I heard this on the M6 video between Soulution and Pass. For smaller differences between Boulder and Mephisto, so far we know that Boulder mono offers more clarity/neutrality than Mephisto stereo. Would Mephisto mono offer more clarity/neutrality than Boulder stereo? My guess is that I would prefer the neutrality of Boulder stereo to the Mephisto mono. There is still probably a fundamental difference between the house sound of each company, with lesser differences between the models of the same company, whether mono or stereo. That's because the designer of all the products of company A has a different DNA or concept from the designer of all the products of company B. |
Inna, everything in audio is a compromise and trade-off, every single part from the chassis panel to binding post to the feet the amp stands on. It makes no sense to draw the line at mono vs. stereo as if it's some unsurmountable gulf in performance or a singular deterministic attribute. In reality everything is on a spectrum, plenty of people use SOTA speakers with stereo amps that perform much better for their taste than some monos will. |
Did i say i wasn’t going to buy monos? I’m not sure where i wrote that? What makes you think i won’t do monos of some sort down the road at some point? I can throw any gryphon stereo amp against any lower priced monos from any manufacturer and trust me it won’t lose. You act like the word "stereo" amp when it comes to a 60k Mephisto is some sort of compromise? Really...that amp stumps on just about any mono under it.. What about the monster $110k constellation hercules mk2 stereo amplifier?. |
People, you all need to remember that you don't get TWICE the performance by going from a stereo to a mono amp. It does not work that way. The mono will give you more separation, no cross talk, more power, but holistically speaking the stereo amp will be at least 80% of what the monos are. Don't think monos will be twice as good because you are going to be disappointed. Stereo amps are always going to be the best bang for the buck. |
Numbers game, open to interpretation. Mephisto is rated 97/100, Boulder is 98/100. Imagine 100 to be perfection. Then Mephisto has 3 steps to go, but Boulder only 2. That makes B much closer to perfection than M. Several people here including Jay noted significantly better clarity/resolution/detail for B vs M. This correlates with the interpretation that B is much closer to perfection than M. In other matters of life, the powerlifter who lifts 500 lbs gets the gold medal, the one at 495 gets silver, the one at 490 gets bronze, but the masses below 490 get nothing, as if they are all weaklings like me at 200. Crazy. |
Turntables eventually would be nice but there really is so much ground to cover in streamers/DACs that WC hasn’t even set foot in yet. Lots of high-end options out there that he hasn’t tried. That’s why this MSB/DCS shootout will be so cool as a starting point. When you think about it, WC has been DCS-exclusive since way back to some Esoteric CD player if memory serves, and that feels like about four score and seven years ago. So I think if WC chooses to be more open about comparing hi-end dacs there is plenty of real estate to cover. He might wait for TT’s until he gets to 50 years old, haha |
Here's a little entertainment for you all: https://vimeo.com/537019620?fbclid=IwAR3j9Fvjjy93OxPNwn_wLuI4iuuQO3Fbrg4KzVF_mVupq8UiROO_MxKm7jE |
grey9hound, Thanks for the MM cartridge links. I won’t live long enough to read over 13,000 posts in his threads! Certainly Raul has much more experience than me, but he is vague on the relative sonic character of MM vs MC cartridges, maybe because of the wide variety. My experience with MM--Shure M91, top Shure V15MR, Grado F9E is that they were all hopelessly murky/veiled/rolled off in HF compared to any MC I have owned--Denon 103D, Supex 900, Linn Asak, Fidelity Research MC201 and a FR skinny one I can’t recall, Monster Genesis 1000, Accuphase AC2. The Denon 303 was faster than all of them, and my current Denon 305 still the fastest although the most ruthless. Raul deserves credit for matching cartridge to tonearm, different styli, and loading factors. It is possible that were I as thorough as he, I might have liked some MM cartridges more. Nowhere else are specs meaningless--it is all about compatibility and listening tests. Jay, Which turntable/tonearm/cartridge/phono preamp did Mike play for you? I never met a dealer who could do the ideal comparisons of TT/arm/cartridges in different combinations in the same room. The same TT/arm with different cartridges so you could do A/B/C/D. The combinations are so many. You can’t buy a cartridge and return it because it is too delicate. The best you can do is borrow a cartridge from a good dealer who you have a relationship with. It’s good to have a few friends to swap cartridges with. This is admittedly very daunting, but grey9hound and I promise it is worth it for the sonic nirvana of your choice. Someone like Raul with 13,000 posts demonstrates the passion of vinyl lovers who know it is all worth it. |
Sounds like you’re eager to hear the M6 huh Kren? 😂 It is coming... I’ll dedicate the next M6 video to you...how’s that sound man? Nah I’m just kidding... I’m just working on a boat load of other things for the system that i haven’t shown you all just yet. Patience... I am still working on assembling the MSB dac, waiting on the preamp module for it and a couple of powercords for it. MSB dac is modular so it needs to be ordered to your specifications. The preamp module option will be the finishing touch. I got a call set up tomorrow with MSB to go over the set up. |
Haha, no I wish. I just like them. A lot of what I say is tongue in cheek. (But psst, WC likes Wilson even more than I do — he just can’t really say it now while the M6 are in the house. But how many vids has he posted in 3-4 weeks of M6?? Not many compared to when he had Wilson and every other day was raving about them) in some ways it’s like WC going out of his way to show every video but M6 (Suncoast, 2150 review, ...., he got 175k speakers in the room need to hear more of them than we have. It’s been nearly a month oh and difference between this and Viber/Rane is WC has had 6 (count em) Wilson’s in his room or earlier room (he just said that in recent vid). The stuff V talks most about including what you mentioned and the speakers I’ll not mention so as to avoid controversy have never been owned by WC- big difference. That said he’s doing much better so don’t try to start anything between us : ) |
