Musetec (LKS) MH-DA005 DAC

Well, I tried to hook up a component to the Equi-Core and turned it on and the breaker associated with a couple outlets tripped and turned off all the power, tv, power, amp, lights and all.  sorry for taking up the thread for this, but there was never a problem until I initially tried to plug the 005 into it.  I flipped the breaker back on and everything works fine with power strip and outlets, but no way am I plugging anything into the Equi-Core again.  

I was on the phone with Midwestern Audio and I thought he had me set it to fast filter.  Unless I heard him wrong which is possible.  

@kclone The online manual recommends you set DPLL to BW01 for PCM and BWO6 for DSD. I have found the SLOW filter is best.

Turn off DOP and DE-Emphasis unless you really need them.

You have an integrated amp so use the pre-amp and set the 005 volume to fixed.

Make sure your Aurender is outputting Pro Level SPDIF and your conversion settings are correct.

Happy Listening.

Too many speaker variables for you to evaluate certain capabilities of the DAC. I admire your patience though. I would have put my speakers back in by now ;)

Update on mine, not much to tell. I listened for a little bit but my main speakers are out of the system because I am burning in a pair of Polk R600s for my son. I have about 120 hours on mine. I had some Pink Floyd on, It sounds very detailed, even at the lower volumes I was listening at (tinnitus is bothering me). I don’t notice exceptional staging capabilities others have reported yet, but I am with unfamiliar speakers too, and I haven’t messed with optimal placement yet with those either.

I have a photo of the 005 in the system on my virtual systems page.  Last pic at the bottom.  IMO, photos do not do it justice.  

@wig Not sure this has any bearing on present day tube dacs, but back in the day I had Audio Logic 24MXL. Also had Perpetual Technologies dac setup modded to the hilt. AL suffered greatly in comparison, perhaps unfairly biased against tube dacs to this day.

Over the years I've come to the conclusion I only want sources to provide maximum resolution and transparency, barring analytical presentation, I prefer to add flavoring elsewhere.

Whether 005 will fit your needs contingent upon your evaluation of present tube dac. If you feel present dac excessively flavored towards warmth or lacking transparency and resolving power 005 could be for you.

Thanks for the info and still on the fence on trying a 005 against my NOS Tube Dac...😏

Wig

Persons researching the Musetec and wanting to read everything, and especially Europeans, may wish to know that there is a new thread about the DAC on a German Audio site:  Aktives Hören 

Google the site.  In Google click on  "Bausteine für aktives HiFi" and then scroll to "Qualität von China-Krachern (hier: Musetec DAC)"

Anyone can read it by means of Google Translate.  English readers may be amused by some of the translations.  Breaking in the DAC becomes "rehearsing" it.  Seems logical.
 

@jc4659 Hi, yes I may be able to answer questions. Glad to help if I can. The DACs that I have compared the Musetec 005 directly to are the Gustard X26Pro, The Holo Audio Spring 3 and the PS Audio Directstream. The Gustard is not really in the same league in my opinion. It sounded smaller and less engaging.

I was enjoying the Holo Audio Spring 3 and couldn't fault it but I always felt that there was something missing. When I first got the Musetec 005, I brought it in from my icy porch and connected it stone cold. I immediately thought, I like this better. Of course it improved over time but the big differences to me were the increased transparency of the Musetec as well as better PRAT and dynamics. It just sounded more real to me, and allowed a better connection to the music. So, I sold the Holo Audio and became a US Dealer for Musetec.

A customer traded in the Direcstream for the Musetec so I did a comparison between the two DACs. The Directstream is a great DAC and one that I like a lot because it has great musicality and tone. The Musetec also has great musicality and tone, but again, it had a little extra transparency so that I felt that I could hear a little more into the "space" of the recording. I think the Musetec might have been a little more dynamic as well, which to me always makes the music seem more real.

I did have the Holo Audio May KTE a while back and I thought it was really good. I didn't have the Musetec at that time but from what I remember, I believe the two DACs are on par. The one thing that I like about the Musetec that I couldn't do with the May, is connect straight to my power amp. The Musetec has a volume control on the remote and it sounds really good connected direct. I know a lot of people say that a good preamp always improves the sound, but I could definitely live without a preamp with the Musetec.

@kclone With the caliber of your electronics it's not too surprising that the Polks sound really good!  Many years (20?) ago I was breaking in a pair of Paradigm Atoms for my daughter using, at the time, all Audio Research electronics and they sounded so good I bought a pair for myself.  I still have them!

lordmelton, yes, I after I hit the breaker switch the other day, I plugged everything into a power strip.  I was going to introduce one component at time back to the Equi-core but didn't get a chance.  I order a pair of Polk Audio R600s for my son (that is what he wanted), so I spent the night setting those up and will break them in for him on my system.  Plus, I watched a basketball game.  I will try tonight and report what happens.  By the way, I know Polk is not considered audiophile, but listening to them this morning, I'm like WTF?  They are pretty darn good. 

@midwesternaudio I would assume you welcome inquiries and technical questions about the DAC from those interested in learning more about the Musetec DA005.  Also, any comparisons with other DACS would be welcome here too with the usual caveat that you are up front about being a dealer/distributor.  Verdant Audio posts frequently so I assume AudioGon is okay with this.

Hi, I just wanted everyone to be aware that Midwest Audio is a dealer/distributor for Musetec. Shipping is fast and free. The special offer right now is $3199 as long as I have no other fees. Customers are getting their 005 DACs usually in about 10 days. (I don't know if this type of post is allowed but since this DAC is $3299 on Ali Express, I thought people should know about the option in the USA).

Thank you!

Midwest Audio

574 329-1850

@kclone Hi, To put this matter to rest please plug your whole system except for your PC into a regular power strip, including your amp, and then switch your breaker on. If the breaker doesn't trip then the problem is with the PC. And as I said before is your system using a dedicated circuit? The power consumption of the 005 is only 25w.

Also check your breaker is correctly rated and BTW is it an Earth Leakage Breaker? These trip very easily and you may need to adjust it.

Curious if any of you have compared the Musetec to a comparable tube dac?

@kclone 

Well, it may depend upon what you mean by burning in.  All the inputs are digital so there is no signal going through on stand-by as there is no power being supplied to the digital circuits.   The analog circuits I suppose are being kept "warm" with stand-by.   I do not know to what extent that constitutes breaking in.  I would think that leaving it on with signals going through for three weeks is overkill, but not a lot of wear in the scheme of things.  You'll propbably get 90+% of break-in in the first 100 hours or so.  Perhaps the engineering types will chime in here with a better answer.

does the unit burn in  on standby mode?, because I was playing on sending a signal through mine 24/7 for about 3 weeks.  

sns, my amp hasn't been plugged into the Euqi Core in months.  I was just commenting that the Equi Core handled everything including my amp with no trouble, I didn't clarify that it hadn't been in there in awhile.  It sounds way better out of the wall.  

@blang

Supercapacitors, like all capacitors, have a limited lifetime. In the case of supercapacitors it’s usually measured in cycles, the ones in the Musetec for 500,000 cycles. It’s hard to know what that means for normal DAC use. As you know in the Musetec there are two sets of supercapacitors that are charged alternately--should probably lengthen life. In any event, the controller might charge more frequently as they slowly lose capacity. They are not very expensive and not very hard to replace. But I suppose that’s a reason to put the DAC into standby mode between listening sessions.

As I have tubes in my system, I turn it on an off (standby) with the tubes (some also on standby).

@kclone I understand your reluctance to remove components from pc. Have you tried removing amp from the Equi-core and run straight into wall? I've found over many years and many amps I much prefer all amps straight into wall vs BPT. But then I run three dedicated circuits, each on 20amp service, 10 gauge Romex, dedicated grounds on each. Again, I understand you may prefer amp into pc if not using dedicated AC.

The power surge on initial turn on points to your ac circuit as culprit vs Equi-core. The big current draw in your setup is integrated, I'm with @lordmelton in thinking its your AC circuit is the problem. If you have typical 15amp service with likely 16 gauge Romex your AC circuit not up to powering this many components. There's not much to go wrong in a balanced power transformer pc, I'd check that AC circuit prior to purchasing new pc since you'll have exact same problem with the new pc.

Since we are talking about start up of the dac, are most users going to standby when not in use?   I had decided to leave on 24/7.  Is that a bad idea?

yep, sound advice jc4649.  Thanks. 

FWIW, I fire up the DA005, my preamp, and Pass Labs x-350.5 amp all within 10 seconds of each other!  Those Pass caps are pulling lots of current no doubt.  No problems.  I'd work around the Equi-Core for the time being until you figure out what the problem is.  With all the changes that the new DAC will be going through you don't want to be throwing other variables into the mix just yet.

wait what, I don't want to unplug something just to get another unit started.up.  Forgive my ignorance, but I used to plug my power amp along with everything else into it an never had a problem but now it can't candle super capacitors out in a DAC?

@kclone @melm  I doubt its the balanced operation of Equi-Core as I use BPT 3.5 Signature balanced transformer based pc with my 005. I suspect you may be overloading Equi-core, likely quite a bit of inrush current when going from standby to on with 005, recall these are supercapacitors and charge up at each start. If Equi-Core continues to operate correctly without 005 connected your Equi-Core isn't failing. You could try disconnecting another component from EC and see if that solves issue, feeding clean power to 005 is beneficial.

Thanks for your input guys.  I'll probably move on for the Equi-Core and look at getting something else.  Maybe a Puritan Labs.  

@kclone

As @lordmelton wrote, the break-in of your Musetec is usually not in a straight line. Just keep listening and it will get there. There are some very fine, and expensive, capacitors used inside and I think those are the components that take time to sound absolutely right. I would not use the Musetec straight in to your amplifier section. You have a great integrated and you should use it for all it’s sonic benefits. Especially at low volumes, you will be sacrificing too much SQ.

The Equi-Core "power conditioner," as you probably know, is not a power conditioner in the usual sense. It does not create new power, like the PS Audio units, nor does it "simply" filter the AC line as do virtually all the others. It changes the AC power lines in an unique way, supplying live power to the otherwise neutral line. Instead of the component receiving live, neutral and ground lines, it gets two live lines and a ground line.  So it is possible that a particular component may not take well to that--I don’t really know. My suggestion is that you consult with Equi-Core, perhaps referring them to the informational page at Musetec to see if there is anything there that might not look friendly upon a "live" neutral line. Given that the Equi-Core is such an odd bird, I’m not sure that Musetec could be of any help. However, given what you have written, I would keep the Musetec away from the Equi-Core.

thanks jc4659, yeah, I'll be patient, I know the deal on this as I have followed others break in notes.    

@kclone The 005 will swing back and forth for a month or so while it's breaking in. Don't worry if you get some awful sound while the break in is going on.

Sounds like your power socket is overloaded or the power breaker may be old and needs replacing. Check what else you have connected to the same circuit and the power capacity of your power conditioner.

If your Aurender has an AES/EBU and/or COAX digital out set it to Professional Level in the Aurender App. You'll get a better sound.

okay, listening right now, it does sound harder.  I have been listening at lower volumes because my tinnitus has been bothering me, but as I juice the volume it is a little harder/brighter, at lower volumes it sounds relaxed.   The good news is my system sounds very enjoyable at lower volumes, average about 50 decibels lately.  

In front of it I have a Aurender streamer with USB out.  I am using Duelund IC (similar to Belden 8402) into a Aesthetix Mimas integrated amplifier.  Speaker as Proac D48 Rs.  I may try it as a preamp later on, but I am worried it won't be as good as the tube preamp section of my integrated.  

One thing of note, since hooking up the 005 last night, it is not playing nice with my Euqi Core 1800 power conditioner.  Last night it seemed to cause a power surge after plugging it in, it shut down the power conditioner and the out let it was connected to. I hit the breaker and got back in business.  Then in the middle of the night, all my components plugged into the Equi Core were off, shut down.  I think the conditioner is dead or something, I'm afraid to plug stuff back in to it.  Right now all my components except the integrated amp (plugged into the wall) are plugged into a little Monster power strip.  

@kclone Congratulations!  You're in for a treat and I don't think it will take 400 hours for it to all come together.  How are you using the DAC, with a streamer, computer, transport?  What cables and inputs are you using?  If you have any questions there are several here who will offer some help or suggestions.  Have fun with it!

Just put my 005 in the system a couple of hours ago.  First impressions are it is smooth and spacious.   I didn't hear the brightness others speak of, but maybe it's just smoother compared to the DAC card in my Aesthetix integrated amp.  I'll let it run in more then commit on the sound after a couple hundred hours.  As I understand it may take 350 to 400 hours to come into it's own.  

Fair enough. Sadly I know myself better and I know ill be out shopping for new parts in no time, no matter what i buy : P The singxer crossed off everything off my list I wanted in a dac. Seeing as I'm a far cry from being an electrical engineer, I have little clue as to how the more expensive components in the 005 will affect the sound.

I just splurged and bought an HSA-1B amp recently and i feel like I spent way more than I should have already. Buying the 005 just exacerbates that feeling. But you're right, I'm probably gonna end up picking it up anyway...

@turcoda It's much more than superior usb board in 005 that makes it a wonderful dac. Every aspect of 005 is well thought out, reason why it's been so positively reviewed. With 005 you won't be moving on to another dac for a long time, you can build up rest of system over time to take advantage of full potential of this dac. Can you say the same about the Singxer? Knowing what I know about the 005, if I were building a system I'd get the 005 and cross one more item off the upgrade list, this is dac for the long term.   My present system is culmination of well over twenty years building systems, this is likely my last system, I see no need to upgrade this dac.

Here is my experience using the usb input to the DA005. I am using a MacBook Pro laptop running on its battery until I get a dedicated streamer. Before the DA005 I was using an Ayre Codex DAC. I found that an UpTone IsoRegen benefitted the usb with the Codex. The sound was clearer, easier on the ears, and more musical. However, I did not hear this same improvement when I used the UpTone IsoRegen with the DA005.  Instead, I tried a device which converts usb to either optical or coaxial outs in an attempt to galvanically isolate the usb. I preferred the coaxial input over the optical which seemed to soften the music. The coaxial digital cable was a DH Labs silver sonic.  I liked the usb to coaxial conversion and listened to quite a bit of music this way.  On the Duende track from Bozzio Levin and Stevens, the bass guitar near the beginning was articulate and clean as it should be as compared to optical input which muddied those same bass notes.  Today just for comparison I went back to direct from the MacBook Pro using my Curious usb cable into the DA005 with nothing in between.  While the bass notes were clean and clear, they were also better articulated and music overall was punchier and more dynamic. So... I am currently listening to digital files and streaming directly into the DA005 from my laptop.  You might be perfectly happy with the DA005 without a reclocker but I would recommend you use a decent usb cable.  Overall, what I am finding is that some of these devices may benefit the DA005 in some ways but not in others.  

Dam, what I'm hearing is that the galvanic isolation in the 005 is great, but not entirely perfect. I dont think i could justify spending 1k+ on an opticalrendu or similar device on the already expensive 005. I was initially considering something along the lines of an igalvanic 3.0. I think the Singxer can be had for roughly a third of the 005's price. Its still a tough call for me if I just wanna save some cash and call it a day. Even though there's over 10 pounds of upgraded electronics in the 005 over the singxer like you said, do you think 3x the price gets you a huge leap in performance?

@turcoda Per above, 005 usb galvanic isolation is top flight, however, my experience is further isolation via my newly added Sonore Opticalrendu is extremely beneficial. Opticalrendu femto clocks both network input and usb output. Previously used SOTM SMS200 Neo, this was also beneficial.

Equipment above is for 2 computer setup, the Sonore and SOTM both Roon endpoints as well as usb renderers. If you're running server directly out to dac, YMMV.

@turcoda

Singxer has primarily been known for its devices that input USB and output I²S. In the earlier days of PC DAC use, many DACs did not have this function at a very high level and this sort of extra component was often used. LKS made a similar independently powered device using an Amanero board. LKS and other makers eventually brought this function into the DAC and the demand for the Singxer device waned. There has been some discussion in this thread about using a Singxer SU-6 in front of the Musetec but it would be redundant, as the Musetec Amanero board does the same thing, and probably far better. Better clocks, better power supply.

The Singer SDA-6, though, is a fully functional DAC at about $1300 for its "advanced" version and it looks like a very nice unit at that price. There are many good Chinese DACs now at about that price. My guess, based on its heritage, is that it has a very good USB input.

@turcoda Hi, The 005 has an Amanero USB board which drastically reduces jitter. Re-clocking is not necessary, in fact it would be detrimental.

The 005 weighs 9kg, the Singxer 2.7kg 'nuff said.

I'm trying to find a good dac that galvanically isolates usb well. Anybody know how well this does without a reclocker/isolator? I'm also curious how this unit compares to a Singxer SDA-6 Pro. I'm going with one of these two, as they're the only two units I'm aware of with some level of usb isolation. I almost purchased a x26 pro, but found out it has virtually 0 isolation.

Actually, shortly after I posted that, I got a tracking number.  I bought mine from Midwest Audiophile in Indiana.  They even sent me a battery for the remote in the mail. Nice!

@kclone 

Sorry to hear that.  I wonder if the issue is parts, which he sources from all over the world.  That's been a problem these days for manufacturers of all sorts. 

Mine still hasn't shipped yet, I ordered on the 10th, which is fine that it hasn't as I am in no hurry.    Maybe just an indicator how busy they are. 

@btscott 

The question of a return privilege after purchase has come up earlier in the thread.  One post, in particular, wrote of difficulties.  As you wrote of a dealer offering returns, I wonder if you'd care to share your purchase experience.  

I believe misperceptions of our intentions is mostly due to relatively low price and country of origin of 005. While I agree with general cost to performance  correlations, exceptions do occasionally surface.

Questioning our credibility is to be expected, I simply ask people to judge for themselves. I too am skeptical when I only see positive reviews of any particular product, I purposely seek out negative and neutral reviews to keep things real. Problem is I guess all who have used 005 have nothing bad to say.

@jc4659 I was wondering why I did not get a bonus this Christmas. Spelin always gets me.

@yyzsantabarbara if you are truly on their payroll then you better get your boss' name correct:  MUSETEC! 😉😁

@btscott Where did you hear about the  Gustard X26 Pro? Maybe on A'gon from people like me who were saying how good it was for $1500. I am on Gustard's payroll ($$$).

I then moved to my next target, the Mustec 005. I was also evangelizing it because I am also on Mustec's payroll ($$$).

@btscott

Thanks for your forthright appraisal, both of hte Musetec and of this thread. I also thought my $1500 DAC (LKS 004) could not be improved upon THAT much by a $3000 DAC with a similar architecture. I bought the Musetec after a lengthy PM exchange with sns on another board and some research. The DAC came as quite a nice surprise, actually a pleasant shock.

For the record, everyone here, AFAIK, has purchased his DAC and no one gets any $$ from Musetec. My only interaction with the maker (and I believe it is through Google translate) is as a customer. When I sent my 004 board in for an update almost 2 years ago and offered to pay, the update was done gratis. We exchanged some very brief pleasantries, mostly about taking care regarding Covid, then a larger factor in China than in the US. I recently sent him a happy Chinese new year email (Year of the Tiger). I’ve always been impressed by the honesty of his operation, especially how the DAC insides and parts are shown and described completely (except for the 8 FETs on the board’s underside). That is VERY different than American and European makers.

As for this thread, I started it soon after receiving the DAC, just trying to give it some exposure. I thought that when dbb wrote his comparison with the Holo May this thread was done. But for some reason a couple of new buyers responded here and it grew. As the OP, when there is a new post here it is my email that is notified. I have tried to help with any questions.

After reading your post, I went through page 1 (Newest first) of this thread. You couldn’t pay me to read stuff back further. I didn’t see anything out of line. For a long time, I think, most of the DAC complements have come from new buyers like yourself. We’ve even gotten some thanks.

Anyway, you did your due diligence and it seemed to come out just fine.