Musetec (LKS) MH-DA005 DAC

@melm 

I have been using roon for a couple of years as a digital file reader and I guarantee you that it is the best product on the market ... I have tried them all ...!
I have the ability to generate temporary licenses for friends, if you want I can create one for you and share it so you can try it out!

@americanspirit

Thanks, but I’m very happy with what I have. I have a lot of music on a NAS and control it all with JRiver on a small laptop. I use either my phone or an Android pad to run it all. What I see on the screen are album covers arranged alphabetically by composer, each with a 2 line description. When I want to stream I use BubbleUPnP again either from phone or Pad. I’m very happy with the set-up and just a one time small fee to JRiver a long time ago. As I listen mostly to classical music I can use the pad and the entire internet to read what I might want to read about what I’m hearing. I can even easily bring up full scores of what I am hearing.

I’m sure there’s stuff I don’t know, but I’ve never seen an advantage of Roon--for me.

@melm 

i tried audirvana, jriver, foobar, ..., the best as audio output quality is ROON. has a terrific DSP and allows the use of RAW ...

@dbb I don't think its that the wrong things being measured, rather they don't have the tools and/or measuring protocol to replicate the complexity of human hearing and individual perceptions of what we hear. In regard to 005, I still question whether 005 would sound better with lower jitter and better SINAD? Jitter was major issue with early digital, people weren't aware of this until they learned to measure and apply fixes, lowering jitter was important for improving digital sound quality. Perhaps 005 would be even more relaxed analog like with lowered jitter. If sound quality not improved, does that mean there is some threshold of jitter beyond which it doesn't matter for perceived sound quality?

Its kind of like my experience when I added audiophile switch, adding clock and galvanic isolation from my router should have resulted in lowered noise/better sound, not the case.  There is now new thread up in regard to poster getting similar poorer quality sound with newly added Phoenix USB, same issue I had? Is this mismatched clocks or a result of excessive clocking within streaming chain? Perhaps better measurements may in fact lead to poorer sound quality. Or is adding the device resulting in better measurements only exposing defect in other part of system? So much still to be discovered.

@americanspirit Melm condensed issue of general service computer in streaming setup very well. In regard to Nucleus, pretty nice for Roon, only issue with those is you'll need usb decrapifier/streamer/Roon endpoint for absolute best usb connection to 005. To get beyond need for the decrapifier/streamer/endpoint would require much greater expenditure to top line servers with built in optimized usb. In the end, Nucleus with quality linear power supply is about as good as it gets below $10k. The Nucleus alone will be nice upgrade over your present server, you can always get the add ons later.

Ok let's lighten things up a bit and enjoy the music.....hey why not?

Here's 3 tests for streaming/server or whatever, they are not easy to produce perfectly digitally so give them a try.

1. Carpenters, Ticket to Ride at 30s single cymbal hit, can you hear it?

2. Manfred Mann, Blinded by the Light at 2m20s does it sound really congested?

3. The Rolling Stones, Indian Girl intro quite complicated , can you hear everything?

For Roon core, I would advice a Innuos or Antipodes over the Nucleus. Even the low end Innous would be an improvement and you can directly connect to the DAC. A usb reclocker, like a Phoenix, in between would take things even further. The other option for excellent sound quality at low price point is the Lumin u1 mini streamer if you are using a nas in your network. Some nas can run Roon core as well or you can run the core in your existing laptop.

@debjit_g 

what do you think of the new streamer LUMIN U2 MINI?

https://www.luminmusic.com/lumin-u2-mini.html

Yes, the u2 mini is a replacement for u1 mini and should be even better in paper at the same price point. I somehow forgot about it. It was just launched a few days back.

@debjit_g 

thank you very much, now I study it a little and I will consider it for the purchase ... for the record there are delays with the supply of MUSETEC due to the war in Ukraine ... so unfortunately it has not yet reached my home

Thanks Guys! I purchased an 005 from Jason a couple days ago. Only have about 12 hours on it, so far from broken in but enjoying it immensely. Have my CD transport hooked to it as well as an IFI Zen Stream for Roon. Nothing fancy yet for streaming. They are both hooked up via RCA connections, so there are improvements to be made. Part of the fun...😁

I inform you that the technical values listed above have disappeared from the MUSETEC site, the honesty of the producer must be acknowledged.
we therefore await the communication of real values

@boxer12 Welcome aboard! We are all sure you'll love this DAC. Hard bit is getting past the break-in stage, but once you get there you'll realise why we're all very committed to this DAC.

It's enabled me to spend lots more on cables

@boxer12 I'm using the Zen Stream with the 005 as well. I mostly listen to files from my hard drive via JRiver. I think the quality is excellent. Based on Digital forum advice here, I run it with a switch and an optical cable in the chain.

@lordmelton ​​@dbb Thanks... Even though it's breaking in, I already know it's a keeper. Listening to the Grateful Dead's "Road Trips Vol.1 No.4" last night was sublime. Never been moved by digital like this. 

DBB, What "switch" are you using?  

@Boxer12 It’s a D-Link DSG105. It is available on eBay for a bargain price. It was recommended by a manufacturer.

Thanks DBB!

A while back, I needed a long electric cable run for my amp. At the suggestion of a cable guru on another site I bought a long length of Viborg VP1606 5N OFC cable which was then available only as unterminated. I bought some good connectors and made up the cable and the improvement over a pretty good Supra cable was clear. I thought of making up some shorter cables for components, but the first cable was quite a trial as the cable is very thick. A suggestion at a Chinese review of the Musetec DAC to use a better electric cable for it was in the back of my mind when I ran across the availability of the same Viborg cable, but terminated and at no-brainer prices on Amazon. A 1.5 meter cable for $61.72 if you have Prime. Other sizes too. In Amazon search on "Viborg MBU1606 Hi-End Power Cable 5N OFC 6mm2 /Core, 16MM Copper Shielding +2 Layers Foil US HiFi Power Cord with Pure Red Copper US Power Plug+IEC C13 Connector". The detail of the raw cable is here. Scroll down for details.

The cable gives me a little of what I think a better (than I have) power conditioner might offer. A bit of smoothness, and better consistency over time, you know, good days and not quite so good days. I am quite pleased with cable even though it is thick and stiff. After a while bought a second for my preamp. Of course, YMMV, but if you want to try it I believe you can return it to Amazon with no shipping cost either way.

Any other suggestions for electric cable or conditioner that have worked well for this DAC?

For "conditioning", I'm using an "Exactpower" SP15A (transformer) into a "Acoustic Revive" RTP-2 power strip. Power cables are "Noteworthy Acoustics". Sounds fantastic even with only about 60 hours on the DAC.

Full Disclosure / I own Noteworthy Acoustics  

@boxer12

The switch that some of us use is more properly the D-Link DGS105.

Thanks Guys!

Melm,

So I've been going through some of you guys posts & have ordered the following:

• D-Link DGS105 (shipped but not received)
• AQ Pearl Ethernet cables (received)
• Fiber Patch Cable (received)
• 2 Ethernet to Fiber converters (received)

Really liking the results so far. Hopefully the D-link will be delivered tomorrow. 

Can someone listen to Paul McCartney’s Band on the Run and tell me if they can hear the echo. I have heard this song many times but I never heard an echo with Paul’s vocal until today. Using the 005 into my RAAL SR1a headphones. Just amazing sound.

I am wondering a little if something is broken because that echo is new to me.

@yyzsantabarbara I can't hear any echo and am reasonably sure this album was never officially released as a SACD or 96/196khz.

@boxer12 
I should have noted on my last post that to bring the D-Link DGS105 to its potential it needs a better power supply than supplied.  An iFi iPower 5v will do just fine.  Also, be sure to ground the unit using the screw on the back.

Thanks Melm

@lordmelton Now that I know a bit of echo is there in the song I listened to it with an identical setup but this time on my Thiel CS3.7 speakers. I can also hear it there, though a little less pronounced.

This afternoon I picked up a headphone amp that will be getting rave reviews  everywhere soon, the RAAL VM-1a. I am going to decide between the Musetec 005 and my Benchmark DAC3B as to which one will be the winner to pair with this amp. I think for this tube amp the DAC3B should be the winner. 

 BTW - If a CanJam headphone show comes to a town near you (Chicago next), go and have a listen to the RAAL VM-1a amp and SR1a or SR1b headphones. This pairing rivals the best of any gear at any price.

@yyzsantabarbara Just to be sure is the echo present throughout the whole track of Band on the Run or just at certain points? Which copy of the album were you listening to?

Headphones, sorry I can't wear them, they make me feel claustrophobic. Thanks for your recommendation.

It was just a stream from ROON. WingSpan FLAC Tidal 44.1 kHz 16 bit. So nothing special.

The best thing I can say about the RAAL SR1a is that they are nothing like headphones. There is a new model coming out that are like headphones for people who crave a headphone sound. What I have is more a 2-channel sound with an open baffle 'ear speaker'.  I am incredibly impressed with even the Benchmark DAC3B tonight.

I am now listening to Band on the Run on the VM-1a and the DAC3B. The echo that I hear is even more pronounced on this setup. It starts at around the 2:20 mark. 

This maybe the best MUSIC I have ever heard anywhere. A buddy of mine has a problem playing music on his 2-channel since his kids cannot sleep. I am going to tell him to sell  all his gear expect the DAC and get the vm-1a and SR1a.

Next up is the Musetec 005 and the VM-1a.I can also improve the streaming slightly in my current setup. I will do that tomorrow. Cannot stop the music tonight.

@yyzsantabarbara At 2.20 and later I find the PMc's vocals extended, sustained but what I hear I can't really call an echo.

However the electric guitar I'm sure is using an echo pedal.

@lordmelton Well my vocabulary is limited so let's go with your description. So you hear it too. I never really heard that before.

So I did a quick shootout between my Musetec 005 and the DAC3B on my new vm-1a tube headphone amp and the DAC3B stays with the amp. The 005 was excellent but I wanted a bit more bite with those 7 tubes. The 005 is the king with my 2-channel SS gear.

Does anyone have experience comparing sound of  Apl dsd-ar dac  vs 005 ?

finally the long awaited MH-DA005 DAC has arrived.
soon I will publish photos and listening tests

😁

@boxer12 "So I've been going through some of you guys posts & have ordered the following:

• D-Link DGS105 (shipped but not received)
• AQ Pearl Ethernet cables (received)
• Fiber Patch Cable (received)
• 2 Ethernet to Fiber converters (received)

Really liking the results so far. Hopefully the D-link will be delivered tomorrow. "

How did it go?

Hey dbb,

The D-Link has been hooked up. It's a bigger change to sound quality than the "Fiber cable & switches". However, I suspect that is because they are working very well together. Next step... Going to try a longer fiber cable to eliminate 100' of "generic" cat 6. 

As far as the DA005, it has approx. 80 hours on it now, so still breaking in. It's a great DAC that I wouldn't have known about without your thread & melm's.

Really enjoying it. 

I report the first brief report below, I hope to please:

first start up: more than two minutes of loading, DAC setting in line with the manufacturer's recommendations: DPLL BW01, NO DEENPHASIS.

first listening: when I switch on the device I detect bad audio quality for at least an hour, as the DAC warms up the quality improves but it is not yet decent (medium frequencies are not very audible); after three hours the three-dimensionality of the sound begins to be built, the soundstage is wide both in width and in depth, the instruments are clearly distinguishable, the medium frequencies are still at a low level.

already like this, with only three hours of running in it is already superior to the DAC Topping DX7 Pro ... the sound of the Topping in comparison is completely two-dimensional, it loses depth and the instruments are not as distinguishable.

I can't imagine how the MUSETEC can sound after the recommended 200 hours of running in ... I'm full of expectations

@boxer12 @americanspirit You need to run your system 24hrs on a loop or play an internet radio station with your preamp muted or your poweramp switched off.

It’s going to take 500-800 hours or thereabouts to break-in, but it’s really worth it.

Do you keep the DAC on 24x7 or put it to standby when not playing ? If in standby, are the critical circuits powered on or does it take sometime for the DAC to sound the best, like many solid state amps do ?

@debjit_g I leave my system fully on 24/7, not playing of course, unless I'm break-in something in.

Reason being is that I believe that what damages components more than anything is the constant switching on and off. Maintaining them at a constant temperature is important.

@turcoda Looks like ASR's big plan to scupper the 005 has failed even if you were the only one who couldn't figure out how to work it.

@lordmelton - FWIW, I knew that review was out there but pay absolutely no attention whatsoever to ASR's opinion on anything... The site is anything but interested in furthering the pursuit of high end audio reproduction. They make as much sense today as Stereo Review did in the 80's.       

For generic FMC optimization need lps on both, along with nice power cords on each lps, and going through nice power conditioner. I've tried generics with stock switching power supplies on one or both FMC, cheaper power cords into lps, no power conditioner, all don't reach full potential of FMC. And even with FMC, ethernet cables retain critical importance, anything less than Audioquest Vodka has resulted in diminished sound quality

005 potential such that every single weak link in network will be exposed. Continuing improvements to network have paid off handsomely for me. Most recent network upgrade was two more generic FMC, both with lps, VH Audio Airsine power cords on both, both going to BPT 3.5 Sig (modified) power conditioner, still retain all AQ Vodka ethernet cables. This addition goes between my modded router and modded server (already had FMC post server). Further lowering of noise floor, 005 simply sublime!  Previously, through many changes over two years of ownership, always perceived 005 as neutral to slightly analytical. With the lowered noise floor, refinement of 005 has gone up a notch, greater harmonic development.

I continue to be amazed by 005, never lets me down, continuing to explore it's full potential.

I leave 005 in standby when not in use. I have tube pre and amps so system turned off when not in use, tube warm up masks any possible 005 warm up time.

I am having issues with the 005 unable to lock on DSD 128 below BW06 DPLL, do I have a ethernet streaming rate bottleneck? I am at 150 Mbps which is max over copper in my building/neighborhood.

@sns - Which LPS are you using for FMC optimization? 

@kairosman That is correct. The best setting (as per manual) for DSD is BW06 and for PCM it's BW01.

Adjust higher if they don't lock or drop out or you would like a less detailed warmer sound.

as promised I send you the pictures of the newcomer 😁

https://ibb.co/gjKmbrN
https://ibb.co/6RSc4Th

@boxer12 I've used Teradak 5V and 9v, Uptone JS-2. Presently using all Teradak (2 are 9v, 1 is 5v) with the three generic FMC in system, JS-2 presently powering server and OpticalRendu so no longer using second rail for one of the FMC. Can't directly compare Uptone to Teradak as too many changes since running one FMC off Uptone.

Thanks for the information sns

update after 100 hours of Burn-In

Once the listening commenced, it was immediately apparent that the MH-DA005 was different from any other DAC I’ve heard.

The sound had the remarkable quality of appearing from nowhere, completely untethered to the speakers. This characteristic was certainly related to the MH-DA005 completely silent background as well as its stunning spatial presentation, with wide staging and continuousness of imaging.

But the MH-DA005 disappearing act went beyond these usual tropes. The impression of hearing music rather than a hi-fi system was profound. The MH-DA005 is so transparent to the music that I had the odd sensation of the speakers not being the source of the sound. Opening my eyes at the end of a piece of music, I was sometimes momentarily startled to see this pair of B&W standing in front of me.

In the ability to resolve very fine detail, the MH-DA005 is, again, phenomenally great. I heard things in familiar recordings that were startling. The track “I Love Being Here with You” from Diana Krall’s Live in Paris (a terrific record, by the way), is a good example. During the piano solo, I heard, for the first time, some very quiet vocalizing underneath the music. This element added more life to the music, accentuating the live nature of the performance. But beyond this element of arcane audiophile interest, the song simply brimmed with the excitement of a first-rate band kicking into gear in front of an audience. All the performances took on a heightened sense of urgency, energy, and spontaneous music-making in a way that was absolutely thrilling.

Overall, I have to say that the MH-DA005 is the best-sounding DAC I’ve heard. It represents the ultimate realization of the accumulated knowledge and sophisticated technologies MUSETEC has developed over the past 10 years, along with some remarkable innovations that push the MH-DA005 performance to an unprecedented level.

At the proposed price it is a real bargain, in fact it can compete with DACs that cost at least ten times more.

I would like to congratulate the designer for what he has managed to achieve, it is a DAC that should be exhibited at the MOMA in New York as a real artistic masterpiece.

At this point I can only define the ASR tests as garbage that has nothing to do with science

@americanspirit Very nice! You're hearing exactly what we hear, 005 has ability to present music and/or live performers in room without artifice.

You're assumption it may compete with dacs ten times its price may be correct. Since adding the FMC prior to server I've reconsidered my priorities as to next possible upgrade, top tier server, a la $10k and above now rises above $15K+ dac. With the added refinement I'm hearing now, this dac has no discernible weakness in my setup.

@americanspirit Thank you for your positive comments, but you have only got a taste of what the 005 is capable of. It'll most likely start sounding really bad then good then bad until it finally fully breaks in.

Switch the 005 completely off and unplug it every few days to drain the capacitors, this will help the break-in.

As you and sns said this DAC is way out there in the value stakes, I really don't know what to compare it to.

@americanspirit - Nice review. I agree, this DAC is amazing! Out of curiosity, what B&W's are you using in your system?