I own the KEF Reference 5s. I borrowed the Monitor Audio Pl300 ii speakers for comparison, which is still under way. Thoughts so far: Both are good speakers. The KEFs provide a lot of detail. Listening to classical music, you can hear orchestral instruments and sections pretty clearly. Background and counter melodies can be identified. Piano music is very realistic. The MAs do not provide as much instrumental detail but they do have a more mellow, deeper, broader sound. Which is better is really a matter of personal choice. As I said, I’m still listening so these are some quick preliminary reactions. More later.
Audio needs parameters. When they would give the world of audio the right and true parameters of sound it would become a lot more easy to understand how audio works. But first of all they have not the right insight and knowledge. And second they do not want people to understand it.
This way they can let people believe what they want them to believe. I am addicted to music since I was a child. Music need to be played as realistic as possible.
Music owns different properties. This has nothing to do with a personal taste. When you cut of a property of sound of a recording you will experience the same music less intense. When you cut of another property it will become even less emotional than before the last situation.
For music you need audioproducts who can reveal all the details and layers of a recording. This has nothing to do with personal taste. These are 100% facts.
But the problem in audio is that most products cannot reveal all the different properties of sound. This will have a negative influence on the human emotion. I think and believe that the products which are produced are incomplete based on ignorance.
That is why we want to create new products so people come closer to the truth of their music. We want as many people possible to experience their beloved music with maximum emotion.
yyzsantabarbara, perhaps we can assist you in your endevor
We have the entire Reference line, we have the One Monitors, we have the Three and Five Floorstanders and we have the Blade 1.
So perhaps that trip to NYC that you were putting off might just be due, heck the tax savings alone would make it worth it, just saying.
As per Bo, what planet are you from? The best audio systems we have ever experienced in 30 years of professional audio design are system which are experimented combinations of cables, power conditioning, amplifiers, preamplifiers, loudspeakers, source components and room tuning.
If you notice the market usually finds setups that work synergistically together, such as the famous 2C3D Avalon/Spectral/Mit setups of the 90.s or the current pairing of Wilson and Dagastino.
The normal world order in audio is:
1: Select the speaker that works for you size, visual look, amount of bass, clarity, soundstage
2: Select the electronics which work to bring out the speakers
3: Find the source components which work with the electronics and speakers
4: Find the cables that work.
5: Install, setup and tune the room add power conditioning, and accessories to focus and bring out the best attributes of the system.
If you are insisting your method is not trial and error, how did you come up with the pairing of Pass and Monitor? Pass doesn't make loudspeakers really, and Monitor doesn't make electronics so someone, you, had to try this pairing and you proclaimed it to be good.
Personally we would think this to be a terrible combination, the Monitors tend to be very warm and so is the Pass gear, so you should get mud.
Funny—during my auditioning I searched for a nearby dealer who had the Reference 5 on display. I even called KEF for help. No luck. But three local dealers had the Reference 3. I bought the Reference 5s based on hearing the 3 and liking their imaging and soundstage, but without ever hearing the 5.
The 1980 trial and error world you life in is a very limited world. First you need to understand that before you can make any good choice. All the decisions you wil make, will only get you access to a very limited level of each loudspeasker you will buy.
The biggest problem of trial and error is the fact you you can only use a limited level in quality of what the loudspeaker is capable of. Tru-Fi proofs over and over again how much more effective it is.
When I let a new client audition a Tru-Fi system with his own music, they directly understand how much more effective a Tru-Fi system is compared to their trial and error system at home.
When I see how people spend their money on a system I can understand and read that they are not able to use their money the best way. This is why I invited Audioquest to proof how much more effective we can use all their cables.
When you can think and work in properties you will always use each single part in any system so much more effective.
@bo1972 Tru-FI? I am not sure what that means. Two individuals tasting beer, wine or food may agree several products are very good, in fact top tier products. However, each may have their opinion which is best. Is there Tru-Food, Tru-WINE, Tru-beer?
I suspect persons who have spent hours/days listening to different components may arrive at a similar outcome. In this case the KEF, or Monitor Audio are both recognized as great products, but which is better is personal preference.
@fast Thanks for the advice. I love the KEF sound and I am trying my best to not buy the KEF;s for my office floorstander. The reason being I already have the LS50 in the bedroom and will have the Blade in the living room. Funny thing is I have not been able to located te KEF REF 3 anywhere locally to audition. Though I have heard the 1 and 5. I am looking forward to my Autumn speaker auditions. The office speaker(s) will be the one I listen to the most since I work from home.
I talked with many people about trial and error. These people are all
persons who work in audio for a long time. No one could explain to me
that he uses any kind of foundation. They all agreed that is is
based on gambling and hoping for the best. So when people can tell us
how they found their decisions, please write it down. And let us know
The Pl-300 II is a difficult loudspeaker in most normal houses due to trial and error systems. You all do audio at 1980 inside and knowledge. And this without roomcorrection.
In a Tru-Fi world we can even place PL-300 II in a small room. But we have Statement Audio Pro-measurement what creates a world most people don’t even know.
Each loudspeaker own properties and they have a certain level in how good they can fill in the properties they own. When you do audio by trial and error you cannot read a loudspeaker as we can read it.
With this I mean to understand the full DNA of the loudspeaker. Before you can make any decisions about which amps, sources and cables you will use, you need to understand the DNA of that loudspeaker.
For me it is always very funny to see which brands and products they choose. It proofs that they are making all their decisons by gambling and hoping for the best. Products and money will not help you to create the best balance and choose the right products for your loudspeakers.
Audio does not work like this. You all believe that you create the best endresult by trial and error. But the truth proofs that trial and error is extreme ineffective. And this will never change. You have no idea what the properties are of each individual part in your system. This proofs on facts that you cannot guide and controle your system.
In A Tru-Fi world the Platinum loudspeakers will always be superior to all the different Kef loudspeakers. Due to the fact that it can reveal more details and properties of each recording. And this will create a much more emotional feeling for each person.
But........in the trial and error world the Platinum is not that much better than the Kef and it can even be less. You all think that this is the truth in quality of any audio product.
But Tru-Fi creates a different world and a totally different outcome with the same loudspeaker. We will let our new clients tell their own stories. So you can read how they experience their incomplete loudspeaker in the past. And how Tru-Fi changed their perspective and ideas about audio. And what their Tru-Fi system changed in how often they use their system. And what it does with their emotion.
You all keep on focusing on brands and products. In the Tru-Fi world we are only interested in the properties/DNA of each single part of an audiosystem. Because this is the only access you will get to understand why the sound and stage of your system is what you can hear.
There is no other option to even have a chance to understand it. All the other options are all founded on trial and error. I talked with many people about trial and error. These people are all persons who work in audio for a long time. No one could explain to me that he uses any kind of foundation.
They all agreed that is is based on gambling and hoping for the best. So when people can tell us how they found their decisions, please write it down. And let us know.
I am about ready to return the Monitor Audio Pl300ii speakers to the dealer who lent them. While they have many virtues, such as the mellow, deep sound I described earlier, overall I prefer the KEF Reference 5s. The KEFs do produce the holographic images and identifiable instruments described by yyz in referring to the Blades, but in a more conventional looking cabinet. The Monitor Audio speakers are a little laid back and dull in comparison (sorry MA owners—just my personal opinion). My wife and an audiophile friend, both of whom have better hearing than me, independently had the same observations. To provide one example, we listened to an excellent vinyl recording first on the MAs and my friend said he was very impressed. We switched to the KEFs and his eyes lit up, describing it as a night and day difference, the music sounding much more alive with the KEFs. By the way, yyz, you also may want to hear the KEF Reference 3, which has many of the same attributes as the Blades and the Reference 5 in a shorter cabinet at a lower price. You are lucky to have so many nearby options.
You are going to a shop and they will let you hear different loudspeakers by trial and error. Because this is how the worlk all their life. And they have no idea as you have no idea how to do it differently.
The truth is, this will never give you access to a high level in endresult of any of these loudspeakers. I can garantee this for 100% and I can even explain it.
People all believe and think that you are only able to create and choose your system by yourself. Bases on assumptions this iw what we believe. Like you believed as a child that Santa Claus exist. Now you know the truth is different . Tru-Fi proofs that trail and error is one big F. laugh. It proofs it not on a personal opinion but on facts.
All people will choose that system even blind when it is able to reveal all the diferent properties of sound. Your emotion and my emotion work quite similar.
I did send a new client to a audioshop to listen to the PL-200 II and some other loudspeakers. He found it a good loudspeaker but not that unique. This is what I knew how he would react.
I know exactly the DNA of the stuff he owns now and which were used during the demo. These products can only create about 4-5 different properties of sound on facts.
They other day I did send him to a client of us with the PL-200 II in a Tru-Fi system. He said alter that day on the phone: to be honest I knew it in a few seconds with the first song I listened.
We always advice new clients to take their own music with them. He said; this was the best system I ever auditioned in my life. It can be explained easily. He is a musician and could hear for the first time things he also can hear when he plays.
He was amazed by the diverisity in height of the instruments. This is what we can reveal with a PL-200 II. Most brands and products cannot create this property on facts. What is missing will never be there.
Music is emotion you only can expeience and feel this emotion when an auddiosystem can reveal all these different properties. But trial and error always creates incomplete systems. It will be an utopie to experience all the emotion.
@bo1972 I will keep that in mind about the Blades. However, getting back to my original question about room dimensions for the Monitor Audio speakers. What are the room size guidelines you follow for placing a 200ii, 300ii, and 500ii?
Both the Blade and Reference have the same kind of distortion in the middle/high freq. range. When you use an amp who can build a huge deep and wide stage like a Pass Labs. You will hear how limited the stage depth and width is.
We can create a stunning level in diversity in height of voices and instruments. Even when you use the best audio products who are able to create this, the Blade and Ref will show you that the height of voices and insttruments are on the same height. We call this a hifi stereo parameter.
There are not many loudspeakers brand who can reveal diversity in height and also all the different properties of sound. Most people who do audio by trilal and error have no F. idea anything about sound. They have no idea what they do and how they make their decisions.
You only can understand audio when you understand all the different properties of sound as you know all the different aspects like smog, acoustics, high frequent noise and magnetism who negatively influence the sound and stage.
When you do not understand this, you will never understand audio untill you die. This is a 100% fact. Maybe it is not what you want to hear. But this is the truth. Trial and error has no foundation and no one can change that.
People need to learn to think further. When you are not able to think further you only can do audio by gambling. Audio is all about sound. And sound is founded on properties. These are all facts. And by sound they can easily be proven over and over again.
Most people don’t like to hear the truth. But when you cannot and will not face it you will have a limited level in sound and stage untill you quit. Trial and error will never make you understand both sound&vision. This is why you never can guide and understand it.
There is only one way to go and this is being able to think and work in properties. I am sorry for all people that this is the truth. When it would be different I would have written it.
Each brand and product owns properties of sound on facts. When you use brands and products who are not able to reveal all the different properties of sound you will use the PL-200 II or PL-300 II at a very low level. All your decisons are chosen by gambling. Based on the fact that when you would be able to think in properties you would have taken totally different decisions.
Take a look on google and search for pictures of the Blade. Take a good look at the way they made the cabinet and look for how they connected the drivers inside.
@bo1972 The reason I have included the 200ii in my search is because of comments by owners that it sounds like the KEF Blade a very holographic speaker. That is one that places the performers and instruments in identifiable positions (if they were recorded like that). The Blade sounds like live music to me with the ability to visual the performance. If I can find a smaller speaker to have the same holographic ability I will get it. I am going to get this for my office which will be on the small size. I am getting the Blades later for the family room.
I am going to audition the following speakers in a month or 2 in S. Cal. Luckily, all I want to hear are available in a relatively short driving distance.
Monitor Audio PL200ii (same store has PL 300ii) KEF Ref 1 and KEF Ref 5 (same store as PL 200ii) Focal Kanta2 (same store are PL 200ii) Vivid Audio Kaya 45 Magico A3 Totem Tribe Tower (maybe)
I currently have the Audience 1+1 V2 speakers powered by Benchmark DAC3 + Benchmark AHB2 amp. However, I am likely going to get a Luxman 509x integrated for the office so that I can run either the Audience speakers and whatever new floorstander I buy. With the flick of a front panel switch I can run either set of connected speakers. If the new floorstander is short enough in height the Audience speaker will reside on top of it (8 lbs) . If it is too tall I will use dedicated stands for the Audience speaker. The Monitor Audio 200ii is short enough to pull this trick off the others on my list are not.
The Benchmark gear will move to the family room for the Blades or maybe a bedroom.
First of all you need both amp and sources who are capable of revealing all the properties of sound. I will not tell in details how this works.
But I can say this; the PL-200 II is in a Tru-Fi world a better loudspeaker than the PL-300 II due to how it is build en the size. I always say: you need to leatn to look further. Working by Trial and Error will never make you understand what you are doing.
The facts proof over and over again that trial and error has no foundation on which you made your decisions. You are just guessing and that is why trial and error is so ineffective.
The Monitor Audio Platinum loudspeaker is in a Tru-Fi world a totally different loudspeaker than in the trial and error world. Based on the fact that in a Tru-Fi system all the 8 properties of sound are used. In a trial and error system most of the time they miss 2 or often more properties of sound.
Most of mu clients said; we would never have bought a MA Platinum in any trial and error system. They auditioned it also at other shops and shows. Than it is an inferior endresult based on the properties which are missing. And the fact that other properties are filled in at a much lower level.
I will never give my huge advanytage and knowledge to others for free. I use it for myself and for the manufacturers who pay. This is what I do for a living. Tru-Fi makes any trial and error system sounds inferior. Each audiosystem hat can reveal all the different properties of sound and even at a higher level will influence your emotion so much more.
You always will choose for the system that can influence your emotion the most. This has nothing to do with personal taste, but due to the fact that our emotion almost works the same way.
The only that is a personal matter is the fact that people have their own preference in music. But....the emotion which the music possesses works always the same way. This can be proven over and over again by Tru-Fi.
Audio is done by shootout. And the most convincing and emotional sound each person will choose. That is why we create and use all the properties of sound. And second we use all the aspects which influence the human emotion by music to the max.
That is why Tru-Fi is so much more appealing than any trial and error system. When you listen to your system with your beloved music and you compare it with a Tru-Fi system what can reveal all the properties of sound with the same music we see that each single person directly understands that it is superior.
Often they say; I knew it only in a few seconds. This is how big the impression is between an incomplete audiosystem vs a system what can reveal all the properties of the same music. I spend so much time in the past regarding sound and the human emotion. That is learned to use them at the max and this maxes a huger difference in endresult.
I think the biggest problem is that sound and stage is very complex. You need to understand many many different aspects to be able to understanbd why the stage and sound is what you hear.
I did this for over 20 years of time. Thousands and thousands of hours. Over and over again. And it never stops. I learned to create both sound&vision. This is not even comparable with doing sound&vision by trial and error. The endresult is of a different level and from another planet.
The people who do not like what they read are the one who will react. They are only able to react by irritation and greed. They cannot react on the thread.
Tell us in details how you found and choose your system. Audio is all about sound and the quality in realism and emotion you can create.
@bo1972 I am looking at both the MA PL200ii and PL300ii for a small room, 16 x 14 or 11 x 13. I was reading in the Stereophile review that the reviewer found the 300ii worked well in the 16 x 14 room (he ended up buying the speaker). Though in the following UK review they suggest a bigger room is required for the 300ii,
When you work by Tru-Fi you use all the different properties of sound. So you judge each audiosystem by all these different properties. This has nothing to do with insult. We are only talking about facts. And when you cannot deal with the facts, it is your problem.
The people who own products which are incomplete in properties are the one who are screaming overhere at Audiogon. I am sorry that you own audioproducts which are not that good. What you hear is what you get. That makes audio so easy for everyone to understand.
Each single person will always choose and desire that sound and stage what influences their emotion the most. This has nothing to do with personal taste. This is due to how our human emotion works regarding music and sound. This works for each person the same way.
Maybe you have a different tatste of music, but at the end all music possesses properties of sound. And again we are talking about facts. And when an audiosystem lacks different properties of sound this system will have a lower level in emotion for each single person.
When you hear your beloved music with a system what ia able to reveal all the details and different properties this is the one you will always choose blind. Based on the fact that our emotion will have a preference for this kind of sound and stage.
Most people who have audio as a hobby have not the insight and knowledge about all the different properties of sound. As they do not have a lot of knowledge and experience with the acoustics, smog, high frequent noise and magnetism.
When you do audio bu Tru-Fi it proofs over and over agian how much more intense and emotional people experience their music. And again this can be explained by sound and telling people about all the different properties of sound.
When you choose all your different parts of your system by trial and erro you will never understand why the sound and stage of your system is what you hear. You are gambling and hoping that you took the right decision.
But Tru-Fi can proof and make clear that these trial and error systems always miss essential parts of sound. When new clients hear with their own music a Tru-Fi system they noe in a few seconds that it is a totally different world.
You see their smile on their faces and often they say; I never experienced mu music this intense. Because they can hear their music for the first time with all the detail and layers it owns. And this makes a big impression on all people.
What all our clients have in common is that they all use their systems so much more often en they listen for a much longer time. This can easily be explained by the fact that all different properties of sound can influence our emotion.
When you become aware that your system can reveal all details and layers you want to experience this again and again. That is why many of our clients use the word; addictive. We spend a lot of time in reading about how our emotion works regarding music.
It gave us so much information to understand how sound and music works. We use a lot of this information for all our modifications and tools we use in our systems.
I learned during classical live concerts that both voices and instruments are very direct and small in dimension when you audition it in real. We call this intimate sound.
We use acoustic songs with only a few instruments to explain people what intiamte sound is and how it works.
When you compare a 2D system vs a 3D system, it ie very easy to understand that the 2D system the intimate sound is alsmot gone. This is due to the fact that there is no space around de singer. When you play the same song with a 3D system, it becomes clear how much more intense the voice becoms during listenig. It brings you closer to the music.
Most people have never really thought about what sound is and how it works. The facts proof that most even cannot answer the most simple questions. What do you think you are doing?
When you think and believe that trial and error will give you 'your' sound you are too stuppid to face the truth. When I talk these days with people about trial and error. They all agree that I am right that there is no foundation at all.
People don't like to be faced with the truth and facts. It proofs that the way to do audio is not the best way. People who will never accept that they made a mistake will stay where they are. But....when you want to leanr something and you want to create a much better quality and sound you have the freedom to use it.
I have to admitt that there is not enough good and honest information about audio. I have talked a lot with many distributers and even with manufacturers about the knowledge and insight in audio. And they all see and hear that the knowledge and insight is getting less each single year.
When you let people audition an audiuosystem what can reveal all the different properties of sound they all react the same way. Because they can hear their own music at a level they never heard before. It is the same music, but it has so much more to offer. And they can hear things that they never noticed before.
The acoustics influences the sound and stage the most. For that this is an essential part to learn what it does and how it works. This is why we spend the most time in research and testing in this part. With our measurement we have proven how much more details in the whole frequency rannge we can create compared to what we call 1980 audio.
Most people cannot even imagine how much they loose by the acoustics of their room. Beside the acoustics audio is being limited a lot by smog, magnetism and high frequent noise. Most people even don't know these parts.
We started to spend a lot of time on electricity for the beginning in 2015. We always have a lot of contact with different specialists in areas they have a lot of knowledge in. And we share a lot of information. And when I see what we accomplished in these parts it is stunning.
It proofs how these parts negatively influence the sound and stage. And money will not help you. Most people have no idea how limited the real quality is they actual can use of each part in their system. We use many different tool and have many different modifications regarding smog, magnetism and high frequent noise.
It is so much more effective than spending more money on loudspeakers, amps, spources and cables. Each decision we make the results are the most important part. All decisions we make are founded on the best efficiency we can create and reach.
Tru-Fi has proven over and over again that it outperforms each audiosystem what is being created by each person themselves by trial and error. Even this can easily be explained. Based on the fact that it can reveal so much more details and layers of each recording. And all different properties of sound are so much more easy to observe.
Our S.A.P.-measuement gives us access to more details and layers in the whole frequency range. But the other important benefit is that we have so much more control and authority than people ever experienced in their life.
All the tools and modifications we do limited the effect of smog, magnetism and figh frequent noise a lot. This gives us access to a much higher level of each part in an audiosystem. When you are an extreme perfectionist as I am, everything you do is focused on result. There is never room for error. This is in my world only for the born losers of this world.
Audio done by trial and error is the level of a child. Based on the fact that there is no foundation. This again can be explained by facts. Most do not like to hear this.
But what would you like to hear? The truth or the thing you would like to hear. And believe me there are a lot of people who like to hear the things they prefer to hear. Even if that is not the truth. We cannot help these people. We work by facts and thye truth. Because in our world this is the only way to do it right.
jhajeski, I see you're a newbie. He's real. I know that it's hard to believe, but he's real. What you're seeing is only a tiny fraction of threads that he has posted, but they are really all the same.
C'mon....I'm being Punk'ed, right? I keep looking for the hidden camera. There's no way that "bo1972" is a real person, right? It has to be a random-language-generator that just spits out phrases over and over, intermingled with regular words. Right?!?
At the end you can hear it yourself and you have the freedom to judge. Only by hearing you can give an opinion. People need to stop making audio that personal. Audio is all about sound.
I will place the reactions of people overhere. So you have an idea how they experience it. You even can make contact with them by Messenger of Facebook or email. We don't hide anything. We just do both sound&vision by what you can hear and see.
It is up to each single person how they experience it with their own music.
"And this has a huge impact on all people." Yes. It bores us to death. I am amazed that you don't put yourself to sleep while writing the same nonsense over and over; literally hundreds of times on these forums!
People cannot understand and use cables the way they can be used. That is why the people who are in charge of Audioquest Europe will visit me in September. The reason why I invite them is due to the fact that I will show them how limited the level is what they can use and reach of each cable by trial and error.
When you use Audioquest by Trial and Error it becomes a different cable. The same counts for Monitor Audio loudspeakers. And all other brands we use. Only Tru-Fi gives you access to all the different properties of sound they own.
And again we can demo this so they will understand what I mean. Sound makes it so much easier to understand my words. When you never auditioned a Tru-Fi system my words are just words. But when you hear it my words become the new truth.
We create sound by displaying all the 8 different parts of sound at a high level. This means each single person can easily understand and hear each single property of sound during listening.
What we see and hear is that all individual persons find their own music played at a superior an more emotional level wat they have with their own system. They also say that they never auditioned an audioststem in any shop what comes close to this level.
I a a born perfectionist and started doing audio when I was 6 years old. This is not my job or hobby. It goes so much further than any person can ever understand. I want to outperfrom any other person in result. I al only interested in being the best. This I proof with sound. This is a part of who I am as a person, like a second nature. It does not cost a lot of energy at all. I can understand it within a split second.
I am working in audio for over 20 years of time. I never have met any person who spend that many hours on sound&vision as I did. The other important thing is that I have not met any person who also can think and work by properties of sound
Based on the fact that I am 100% convinced that this is the only way to understand and guide any audiosystem. For me it is very simple to explain and make people aware which parts are missing in their system. I never met any person who said; but my system can reveal all the propertirs of sound.
We can proof by sound and on facts what is missing. There is not even any discussion possible. Tru-Fi is over 300% more effective than any trial and error created system. We proof this difference by shootout and comparing. Audio is all about shootout and comparing.
The sound and stage what you can hear will always tells the truth. And this I love most about audio. We create a superior sound and stage than what people own. They all react the same way over and over again. This is want themselves. The have auditioned their own music by a Tru-Fi system.
It blows away all your thoughts about audio and music. People have no idea what it really means when I say; I work at 0.25 millimeter precision. Everything I write is exactely as I wrote it. A born perfectionist will never except any fault and lower level in result.
The precision of trial and erro is very limited and we can proof this again by sound. After this there is never any discussion posible. The sound and stage will make you aware within a few seconds that the world you hear your music is totally different.
Using all the different properties of sound is just a part of Tru-Fi. Using high tech measurement tools also brings the result to a superior level. This also counts for all the adjustments we do regarding smog, magnetism and high frequent noise.
The Platinum loudspeakers can proof by Tru-Fi that they can outperfrom all other loudspesakers. Based on the fact that in any shootout they are more complete and have less compression in sound. Trial and error will always create a result which lacks differences parts of sound.
Tru-Fi proofs for all our clients that these systems create a much lower level in emotion and excitement. That is why it is very easy for them to slle their audioproducts.
The only parts in their system they can keep are thiose who can reveal all the different properties of sound. Each single part what is incomplete has to go. Based on the fact that each single part what is incomplete will limit the endresult. Again there is no discussion possible that it has to leave.
Tru-Fi makes you understand both sound&vision a lot easier. Because you only focus and work with all the different properties of sound&vision. Since 2,5 years we work with vision the same way. And again the results proof that we can easily outperfrom all our competitors.
Also for vision we use for over 7000 dollar in high tech tools and calibration tools and software. We even here we do many adjustments regarding smog, magnetism and high frequent noise. These parts also influences the vision negatively.
Doing audio by trial and error it is not possible to understand why the stage and sound is what you hear. I was in 1998 aware that I needed to learn why a loudspeaker is so different than another one. That is why I have done thousands of tests. We had 5 different listening rooms. And I could borrow almost everthing I wanted to test and hear. I did borrow expensive products a lot all the time.
We can and wil proof that Tru-Fi makes trial and error look silly. And that on facts. You can easily learn to people what all the different properties are of sound. I will use people from the conservatorium a lot during presentations. As I will use curtains during demos.
It is our goal to help en bring many people as possible to a much higher level in emotion and realism than their own system can create. Audiogon is a place where you can put advertisments. When we are ready we will use it, for now this is too early. I am not allowed to make any kind of advertisment for us. I respect that. I will place different reviews in english overhere from our clients soon. I hope they will not remove them.
Bo I have to agree with some of the other poster, you make specious claims without even hinting at what your process is.
We have been setting up high performance systems for 30 years, there are really very few setup gurus out there and those that are out there generally work on similar protocalls.
We were taught speaker setup by David Wilson, there are those who use lasers to align the speakers, and plumb bobs for leveling and rake angle, there is acousitcal tunning, vibration reduction, emi and rfi reduction, power conditioning and maximizing a systems setup by making sure the components are working well together along with cabling.
As per Monitor vs Kef the Kef Ref Fives are awesome loudspeakers, we have a pair on display and they are nothing short of amazing sounding, they are extremely lifelike and they throw a huge well focused soundstage, they have very tight bass and great dynamics.
We also sell the Legacy line that uses German made Heil drivers, the Heil tweeters are soft sounding, as they are basically flexible myler film which has been folded many times, Heil drivers sound like electrostats which is their high frequencies are more delicate with less upper octave sheen and less aparent detail then a really good metal driver, the Heil AMT tweeters are wonderfully musical but do lack a bit of the clarity that you get from the best Beryillium, or Diamond tweeters.
To state that Monitors AMT tweeters are better is sheer ridiculousness, a good driver can be made out of any material, if you like the Monitors that is great, but that doesn't mean their drivers are better or that anyone elses are better, Monitor loudspeakers are very good and have their own set of strengths.
The Kef Reference series are extremely well designed and use state of the art coincidental drivers, The fact that your high frequencies and midrange frequencies are all comming from the same point in space has a lot of advantages over the conventional tweeter above the midrange alignment that most speaker designers do, as designing a properly functioning dual concentric is very difficult to pull off. Kef has been making dual concentric drivers for 11 generations so they feel that they have perfected them.
The OP allready owns a fantastic set of loudspeakers the issue is what he is using to drive them, the Ref 5 are very revealing loudspeakers like any of today's uber high resolution models so all of the matching equipment must be up to snuff.
The AQ cables do have a tendency to sound a bit brighter then some of the other cables and the Vega is very out of date, we used to sell the Vega and it was great 4 years ago but way of date, also the Unitiserve is a good but not fantastic sounding server.
Just changing the server to a server which provides for upsampling will make a very noticable improvement with the Vega.
We will place many reviews soon and we will make professional videos as well. We are working on this right already. I have put the list and explanation of Tru-Fi many times. Just read back in other threads.
Tru-Fi has nothing to do with brands or products. It is universal and can be used for each single brand and product. It will give you the full DNA of each single part in your system.
People always asks which brands and products I use. My clients always start to laugh when I show them the reactions of trial and error people. Because they understand that the way we work is so much different.
Most things we will never share or make photos of. We go into details so much further people cannot even imagine. I have extracted both sound and vision in very small parts. Which most people have no idea of. When I visit an audioshow it is always a contest of faults.
But they cannot hear and see the faults they make. Based on the fact that they are not able to think that far into details. For the first time we share this with manufacturers. But....I will never give this for free. They and all other people have to pay.
But it is so much more effective than all other trial and error choices that it will bring many brands and people to a much higher level in realism and emotion.
People often blame the loudspeakers. But.....in reality the mistakes are often due to other parts. Based on the fact that most people have not a lot of insight and knowledge regarding sound, the acoustics, smog, magnetism, high frequent noise they asume that the problems are caused by the loudsoeakers. This proofs how complex sound is and that peolle need to look further before they can understand the real reasons which causes the limitations.
I did send a new client to hear the PL-200 II at an audioshop who work by trial and error. I wanted to make him understand that a PL-200 II is a totally different loudspeaker in their world compared to the Tru-Fi world.
He said the same about the low frequencies as mentioned above. But....you need to understand the loudspeakers first before you can understand which kind of amp, source and cables you should use.
The Platinum serie has by far the best response of the mid en low freq drivers in their price range and even far above. Based on the fact that their material (ceramics with aluminium and carbon fiber) are lighter and they do no use a voice coil like all the other brands. This gives them a lot less compression and a lot more energy even at low volume.
But....due to the acoustics most create limitations regarding the energy of the Platinum loudspeakers. The other limitation is that most amps are not great in delivering enough current.
Becaus in the Tru-Fi world we can proof that we have a superior controlled low freq. range and this with much more layers than with any other brand in this price range and far above it. The other benefit is that the energy is fully free for the loudspeaker. You can feel the energy of the instruments in front of you far away of where the speakers are positioned.
The other thing what is done wrong by many shops and also during reviews is the fact that they do not understand how AMT tweeters works. And how they need ot be used the right way. We have proven that we can create much more details with them compared to other loudspeakers in the same price range.
We will place different reviews of clients soon who will confirm this by comparing their loudspeaker they used before the Platinum loudspeakers. Sound always will tell the truth. Each single person can hear it himself and compare it with his own loudspeakers.
We do audio by shootout so people can compare their trial and error system vs a Tru-Fi system. People will always want theat system that impresses them the most. And what creates the most emotional experience during listening to their own music.
bo1972, I know that this is a pointless question, but I will ask one more time anyway. Since you will not share your proprietary information, why do you persist in talking about it endlessly? What is the point in doing that, and how does it benefit anyone? Is it that you want members to ask you how they can buy your services? I'm guessing that must be it. If it is, you should take out a classified advertising your services. You might do well, and your customers might then justify your claims and make you even more successful.
"The MAs do not provide as much instrumental detail but they do have a more mellow, deeper, broader sound" I have to say, you perfectly nailed my impression of the PL 300 II when I heard them in Houston. It seemed like they had way too much bass relative to the amount of highs. The bass seemed out of control, and it was not a small room.
Dan, My speakers are 26 inches from the rear wall and 32 inches from one side wall, 44 inches from the other (for waf and aesthetic reasons). I may experiment with moving them equidistant from the side walls. They are slightly toed in but I’m also experimenting with this. Very frustrating trying to compare the Monitor Audios and KEFs since they each have strengths and weaknesses but hard to say which reproduces music better. Still listening. I’m not familiar with the Tannoys but I do like British speakers. My previous speakers were Proac Response 3.5, Proac Response 3, Celestion 700, Celestion 600.
fast, my only remaining question is how far away from the wall are your speakers? The front/center of mine are 75", and toed-in so they intersect at my listening position. This has served me well for 7-8 years, though some folks don't have the same placement options due to the WAF situation.
It sounds as though our rooms are set up in nearly identical fashion, except for speaker placement (distance)? from the wall.
Best of luck with your speaker choice/setup. By the way, my speakers, custom Tannoy 12" Dual Concentric ca 1975, though highly modified w/very heavy cabinets, and other mods as well.
The speakers are in front of the short wall. The room has a large area rug and two large upholstered sofas which are parallel to each of the long walls plus two upholstered chairs which face the speakers . Behind one of the speakers are two doors with large glass panes. The doors have widow coverings (accordion shades) but the glass probably doesn’t help.
fast, you don't mention the orientation of your speakers in the room. Are they situated in front of the short wall, or the other way? My listening room is somewhat similar, 16' X 34' with cathedral ceilings. There are no room treatments used, nor are they necessary.
Other than a room such as Mike Lavigne's, it is the most perfect room I have heard anywhere. It is fully carpeted, with two large couches. I would hazard a guess that your large room has similar potential.
Erik, in response to your question: Audio Research VT130SE amp Audio Research LS22 preamp Audio Research PH3 phono stage Naim Unitiserve Aurilac Vega DAC Rega Planar 6 with Dynavector cartridge Audioquest interconnects and speaker cable The room is 16’ x 24’ with a high ceiling. Not ideal for sound. Very limited on acoustic treatments (waf)—meaning it won’t fly unless virtually invisible.
Sound tells the truth, and does not lie. It is very easy for us to proof that trial and error systems miss essential parts of sound. When new clients take their own music with them we see that it is very easy for them to understand which parts they do not have in their system at home.
That is why we will place all their stories. We will even start a videochannel. We own Sony professional video 4k equipment and will use this soon for our website.
People are always talking about brands and products. In the Tru-Fi world we only focus on the properties of each individual part in an audiosystem. This is a totally different way to create an audiosystem. The differences between our way and the trial and error world could not be bigger.
The results proof how superior each Tru-Fi system is. We do a lot of research all the time. And no we will never give details for free. We are now talking with different manufacturers. It is my knowledge and insight. I do not share this.
We do a lot of modifications and use many tools to limit smog, magnetism and high frequent noise. I will never share any of this information. Based on the fact that I made the leap bwteeen us and the rest a lot bigger. And I want to make this leap bigger each 2 months of mine.
When we install an audiosystem we use for far over 7000 dollar in high tech measurement tools. Most audio shops only take a few simpole and cheap tools with them. In vision we also use high tech calibration software and tools of over 7000 dollar.
The Tru-Fi world is a world what is 20 yeras ahead of the trial and error world. By doing research all the time we can make this leap bigger and bigger.
We will proof that trial and error is an important reason on facts that it is so ineffective. That is why we will share the stories of people who went from a trial and erro system to a Tru-Fi system.
The AMT tweeter is a lot different than a dome tweeter. And it needs to be used different to get the full potential. We can proof and have proven that we do not have this issue that it is too dark.
We have proven that is it more open and creates even more details than speakers with a dome tweeter. The problem is that people do not understand sound and music either.
They all do audio by trial and error. Selecting audio this will never make yolu understand what you are doing. You need to understand the properties of sound first before you can understand audio.
We will place many reviews of clients who went from a trial and error system to a Tru-Fi system. We will translate all the reviews in english as well.
In a Tru-Fi system the Platinum II series is a titally different loudspeaker than peolle know it for the trial and error world. Our clients will tell this in their reviews.
When I see the systems used for Platinum II reviews I can see the mistakes they made. Regarding the high frequencies they all make simmilar mistakes.
Please don't start, because with all of your hyperbole the conversation becomes about you. That being said, there are many people that feel Monitor Audio series II are too laid back and as a result aren't as detailed as some would like.
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