ARC SP10. That’s a pretty old preamp, back in the days when a lot of tube preamps had that big tube bloom and coloration. Problem was, in most cases, they had that rich sound but not very revealing, things get lost, slow and the bottom end although fat was not as controlled as modern tube preamps. Local shop just took a SP10 in on trade and sent it back to ARC to go through. I had quick listen and pretty much what I remember about old ARC preamps. If you want that kind of sound but much better I’d look for a ARC LS5 MK III. It’s fully balanced and only balanced out so you’ll need an amp with XLR inputs. That was a great preamp in its day.
Today most tube preamps, including ARC, are a lot more neutral such as your MW LS100 which I’ve not heard but I suspect it falls somewhere between the SWL 9.0 SE and LS36.5 which I’ve owned both and still the later. If you’re by chance using the stock power cord I’d strongly suggest replacing that. When I bought my LS36.5, Dan Wright suggested I get a WyWires PC which I did and it really opened up this fine preamp. Before you chase your tail on buying a different preamp I’d look at the power cord and also the Daedalus isolation devices, three, underneath your LS100 will probably amaze you. Dan sells the DID’s and being a MW owner, he’ll likely give you a decent discount.
The order I would suggest first is the DID’s, power cord then fuse. Yes I did the fuse in my LS36.5 and it dropped the noise floor a little and opened things up. I use a NOS rectifier tube and cryo 6H30’s with Herbie tube dampers. Just bringing this up if you’re hard set to upgrade, the MW LS36.5 is fine preamp.
The latest version of ARC preamps I’ve had in my system was a LS 25 MK II and I preferred the MW SWL 9.0 SE. By comparison, I found the LS 25 leaner and had little to no PRaT that the MW has. The LS36.5 is at another level of the two by a considerable margin.
I’m sure the other preamps you mentioned are wonderful as they get plenty of good press, and so does your LS100. I’d look at my suggestions as it will probably be less money in the end and I bet it will bring out how great your current preamp truly is. |
@adg101 thanks for your reply. I already use some isolation underneath it because it is too big to fit in my shelf. I can try another power chord. For the fuse, what do you use?
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@gte357s
I have the LS 100, I use an Audio Art Cable Power1 eplus cryo power cord on it. I also use a NOS 5AR4 rectifier and Sophia Electric 6SN7s; both take SQ up versus the stock tubes.
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The only thing close to any of those you mentioned is an ARC LS 26. The LS 26 is in my bedroom system, the LS 100 is in my main system. To be fair, I've never tried the LS 26 in my main system to do an apples to apples comparison, but the LS 100 sounds so good I've never given any serious thought to replacing it.
It would be helpful to know what the rest of your system is and what kind of sound you're looking for. It sounds like you'd prefer something more "tubey"? |
My analog rig contains the following:
Sota Star Sapphire turntable
SAEC 308 tonearm
Denon dl-H5LC MC cartridge
Allnic 1201 phono preamp
ModWright LS100 preamp
Otomon Lab 300B based on Luxman MQ-300
JBL 4341 speakers
For the sound, I don’t necessarily looking for “tubey” sound, I think. I want a life-like presentation, wide and deep sound stage, good separation of instruments, airy ... etc.
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About a year ago now, I bought a factory reconditioned SWL 9.0 Line Stage. Blew me away, its sound is, to my ears, perfect. Modwright is tough to beat especially for the price.
Regards,
Dan |
With the right speakers the LS100 is capable of everything you described and it sounds like the rest of your system is. Maybe you should look somewhere else than the preamp. |
Honestly the Modwright is good. I actually brought it to my fiends place and A/B test compared to his SP10. It was a short session because we also compared the phono preamp and power amp. Different people focus on different thing. It can very well be that Modwright sound is less “tubey” or have a more modern sound, but I didn’t pay too much attention to the bass or detail. My first impression is SP10 sound more holographic, and it is not by a small margin. It is quite obvious and audible. I actually like the style of Coincident and Supratek, but can’t audition them. So, the only way is to ask for opinions and impressions in a forum.
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gte357s
You’ll probably never achieve a big fat tube sound with a modern tube preamp because the golden age preamps are too limiting with modern amps, speakers and source. If you’re running stock tubes definitely upgrade there first. I noticed a big difference going to a NOS Mullard rectifier tube. This will get you much closer to the sound I think you’re searching for. I’d check with Dan Wright as he can steer you in the right direction. Does Dan use his caps in the LS100 like he does in the LS36.5 as that might be something to pick his brain on too. Dan will be upfront and not over sale you. He’s a very good guy to work with and honest.
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@gte357s,
With a question like this you can receive a whole host of replies and opinions. So I’ll chime in with mine. I believe that your current Modwright LS 100 is very good. As mentioned above changing tubes/power cable/fuse could very well further improve the sound quality. Certainly worth consideration.
In my opinion the Coincident Statement Line Stage is outstanding!
A different approach from your LS 100.
101d DHT tubes.
Transformer volume control.
Interstage transformer rather than coupling capacitors.
Ultra simple signal path.
Very robust seperate power supply.
It is exceptionally open, transparent, dynamic and has excellent reproduction of natural tone/timbre/harmonic overtones.
Instruments and vocalists are very authentic and convincing.
As you note not particularly easy to get for an audition. I believe if you heard it in your audio system you’d be extremely impressed.
I’ve owned the MK II version for nearly 12 years and it’s superb sounding. The current MK III was introduced last year.
Best of luck,
P.S.
If you’re open to trying fuses I suggest the Synergistic Research Orange. If you are not impressed just return it. Refund is no hassle.
Charles |
dan wright’s sonic target with his tube gear is to give sonic benefits of tubes (holographic imaging, fleshed out midrange and mid bass) while maintaining and not sacrificing any of the benefits of top flight solid state (slam, transparency, extension at both frequency extremes)
so with his tube gear you will not get the classic, smoothed over, rolled off, mellow, honey colored sound of tube units of years past |
Just give a quick update. First of all, my comments about the Modwright is not accurate. Shortly after that session, it blown two fuses in one morning. I then took it to a technician. I think he replaces a couple capacitor or resistor, nothing major. After it is fixed, it sounded WAY better than before. The holographic is much improved. Now I truly agreed what @jjss49 said above: the sound is holographic, but with a lot of texture, tonal density, and muscle in bass!
I then bought a Coincident Statement line stage MKII. While it sounds good, but The sound is very different. It is more transparent and more detailed, but less tonal density and leaner.
Now it comes to taste, and synergy with the rest of the components. I can’t decide what to keep, |
And I also completely agreed with charles1dad description on the Coincident statement, it is spot on as well. Open, dynamic, transparent.
also, the Coincident seems more sensitive to the cables. I use Neotech 3004 RCA on Modwright and they sound excellent, but I don’t like it on Coincident.
Then surprisingly, the Coincident works well with Silver cables, it adds more punch, more slam. |
The Modwright gear is and has always been TOTL, amps, Pres’ and so on.
wouldn’t think anyone would part with the gear!
Good stuff! |
If anyone has any firsthand experience I’d be interested in “tone” comparisons to a few other preamps at about the same price point as the Modwright LS100:
LTA MZ3
Primaluna EVO300
Aric Audio Super
Backert Rhumba 1.3
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@gte357s,
Thanks for your follow-up listening impressions and comments. You note the transparency of the Coincident Statement Line Stage (CSL). And you’re right, audio system synergy of components/cables are very key and will be exposed.
In my opinion the CSL doesn’t lack tonal density. It entirely depends on what it’s partnered with. The exceptional level of transparency allows the signature of each component and cable to be revealed/recognized. Tone can be leaner or fuller -meat on the bone. The CSL very likely has less of a "self" sonic signature than the Modwright LS 100 relatively speaking. So the LS 100 could add a bit of flavor sonically speaking. CLS more chameleon in nature.
Bottom line I don’t believe that you can go wrong with either line stage. Just depends on which approach you want to take. I will say that with the current make up of my system, tonal density and harmonic richness are strengths.
Which ever choice you make, best of luck to you.
Charles |
@charles1dad
what is the rest of your system? |
Hi @gte357s,
Click my avatar, you can see my full system with pictures and descriptions. I named my audio system “SET Bliss” Happy Memorial Day.
Charles |
@gte357s - I have the LS100 are you using the stock supplied 6SN7s and rectifier? I have found swapping in either Sophia Electric or NOS Sylvania 6SN7s and a NOS Phillips or Mullard 5AR4 improved the musicality of the preamp
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@charles1dad
I can see you are using a Yamamoto DAC. I am using a Musical Paradise MP-D2 DAC. It sounds excellent on Modwright, but a bit too lean on the Coincident.
@facten
I am using NOS Phillips 6SN7WGTB and Millard 5AR4 on Modwright. |
i would concur that dan wrights tube rectified gear all benefit greatly from moving from the stock present day russian 5ar4's to old stock mullard or amperex ones |
Hi gte357s,
I’ve heard 5 different DACs in my system running through the CSL . Each of them were very good (Not a dog amongst them). The individual sonic signature of each one was easily and clearly distinct from the others. Same outcome when a friend brought by different IC cables to compare. Also no problems clearly hearing differences between numerous 300b tubes.
I believe that it’s pretty easy to tailor the sound of an audio system using the CSL as it does minimal editorializing of what’s in the signal path. The 101d DHT is a different character from the 6SN7 (Which I’ve used in prior audio systems). Probably why Mick of Supratek has a line stage that offers choice of both of these tubes.
Israel Blume settled on the 101d specifically for its relatively "invisible " signature (Nothing’s perfectly a straight wire with gain). He wanted The very linear quality of this tube for its air, openess and resolution. The highly popular (well deserved) 6SN7 has a beautiful sound as well but I believe with a touch more of the coveted tube bloom/ character.
I know with the Supratek option some listeners prefer 6SN7 and others 101d depending obviously on what else makes up the specific audio system. I believe a superb system could be built with the CSL or the Modwright LS 100 depending on desired objectives.
BTW gte357s you mentioned the CSL "works well" with silver cables. My experience as well, I use the Ocellia Silver Reference (Previous generation) . Overall excellent match , very pure, organic and nuanced with beautiful tone and timbre . There is natural warmth with this pairing.
Charles |
That’s exactly right. For the Modwright, the difference in sound is not as obvious when changing tubes and cables. For the CSL, it is VERY obvious. I guess that’s what transparent means? It doesn’t add anything as it is not there. So, the CSL requires some effort to match to get the best out of it. To be honest, when I first get it, it doesn’t match very well with my system. I even thought if I get a defective unit. Then I spent quite a lot of time playing with all different combinations of tubes and cables, and finally found one now that I feel it sounds quite good now. Since the DAC sound so good with the Modwright, I can’t imagine I need to change the tubes initially; until I tried back my old Audio-gd DAC and doesn’t have that kind of distorted sound. Finally, I found out the stock Chinese 6N1P tubes with gain set to high solve the problem! All my nice vintage tubes doesn’t work, really have no ideal. But anyway, I am happy now. |
Actually, I am not 100% correct. While the DAC sound good with ModWright, it is actually not “right” but I never realize it. After I change back to the stock 6N1P, when I go back to ModWright, it sounds more “correct”. There are more slam as how I hear the same song at my friend’s place. |
Hi@gte357s,
I’ve never heard an Otomon Lab amplifier but I know they are highly regarded custom Japanese products. I would imagine that it mates well with your two line stages. Does yours utilize Tango or Tamura output transformers?
what 300b tubes are you using?
How does the Otomon compare to your Triode Lab 2A3?
Charles |
@charles1dad
it uses the new ISO Tango but not the Hirata Tango. I tried a couple 300B: Shuguang black treasure, Sophia Princess and TJ Full Music. The Black Treasure has the darkest sound and at the same time feeling less dynamic. The TJ has the most dynamic and extended, but in certain songs with guitar playing some higher notes, they sound a tad thin. The Sophia Princess is in between the Black Treasure and TJ. With the CSL, I prefer the Black Treasure or Sophia. But for ModWright, I use the TJ.
it is hard to compare the Otomon 300B to the Triode Lab 2A3 because one is a power amp and one is integrated. I feel the Triode Lab sounds very good too, while the music is a bit lighter and faster than the Otomon when it is paired with a Luxkit (Luxman) a3300 preamp. I feel the Triode Lab sound signature is more like the CSL, definitely not ModWirght which has high tonal density which gives the texture of guitar. |
@gte357s,
Thanks for your impressions. According to Thomas Mayer who builds heirloom level amplifiers, he said he finds the ISO Tango and HIrata Tango output transformers equally excellent.
Charles |
I was surprised by this when I swapped from the Mullard 5AR4 in my LS100 to a Brimar 5V4 rectifier. If you think the Mullard is good, this is (IMHO) as good if not better and for the lot less $$$$ than a Mullard. I found the Brimar 5V4 to be as clear as the Mullard but with a slight more "edge" to things and I mean that in a good way - a little more on the dynamics. And yes to all the others what have posted that before you do the preamp "tail chasing", take it from someone who has owned over 22 different preamps, good tubes, and getting very good A/C power cords will make a large difference, and you won't make a mistake selling something that should not be sold. I often wonder how many pieces of equipment I sold, blaming them for poor sonics when I should have treated power cords as equally as I have all the other components. |
@gte357s,
Any further preamplifier listening impressions/thoughts?
Charles |
@charles1dad
Both preamp can draw me into music but in a different way. I am 95% listen to Jazz where most of the song has vocal, saxophone, drums, cello, guitar, trumpet and piano. The Modwright really have a rich tone. For female vocals, it is warm and non-fatigue. For guitars and cellos, I don’t know how to described, but it has more density, as I can hear the vibration of the wood body.
Now if I switch to the Coincident, the tone is not as rich. But it gives me a greater feeling of live performance. I am emersed into the music. The soundstage is wider and deeper, a bit more details, a bit more dynamic. It is more of an overall feeling. But if I pick on certain things to do a comparison, say focus on listening to guitar notes, then I will like the rich tone of the Modwright. I think I am done doing comparisons, so, I don’t pick on listening the notes from the Coincident.
But I am not saying the tone on Coincident is bad, nor the soundstage on Modwright is bad. It is just one shines a little more than the other in those aspects. So, both preamps are good in a slightly different ways. |
Hi@gte357s,
I hear ya 😊. Two splendid choices, each with its alluring strengths. Just depends on which one you’d find more satisfying in the long term. I’m 90-95% jazz as well 😊.
Charles |
I owned the Coincident Statement Line stage and the Supratek Syrah preamp, which is a Chardonnay plus a built in phono stage. The CSLS is a better preamp sonically than the Syrah. The phono stage in the Syrah is superb, though. I would recommend moving up to the Cortese if you are wanting to buy a Supratek product. I owned the Cortese also, and it was decidedly better than the Syrah.
Regarding the tonal qualities of the CSLS, my initial impression of the CSLS was similar to the OP’s. However, I found a dac and cables that I like that tailored the sound more to my liking. So maybe this is a compliment for the CSLS. The CSLS allows one to easily hear differences in sources and cabling. I moved on from the CSLS, mainly because I wanted a remote volume control, not because of the lack of any sonic quality of the CSLS. |
@thaluza
thank you for your feedback. May I ask what DAC and cable you use? It would be ideal if I can increase the tonal density. I am tempted to try a R2R DAC.
and yes, I hear you, my ModWright has a remote, it is so much more convenient, especially for digital where I have a playlist of over 300 songs, and loudness changes from song to song. 😞 |
@gte357s
Mojo Audio Mystique Evo B4B (R2R) and Cerious Graphene Matrix (interconnects, usb cable, and power cable). Both manufacturers have a trial period if you want to demo. |
@gte357s
I also use a Mojo Evo (base model) with my LS100. I had been using Silnote Audio Orion RCAs between the 2, now using Acoustic BBQ Double Helix which is a dyi cable made by a member. Both cables are very good. |
Hi @thaluza
"Regarding the tonal qualities of the CSLS, my initial impression of the CSLS was similar to the OP’s. However, I found a dac and cables that I like that tailored the sound more to my liking. So maybe this is a compliment for the CSLS. "
Yep!!! This very distinction was discussed earlier in the thread. I expressed that the CSLS is chameleon " regarding its sonic signature. So it definitely can be described as lean/cool Or rich/warm depending on the other audio system components. Very organic character paired with my Yamamoto YDA-01 DAC.
Charles |
@Thaluza,
I do feel the innate differences between the 101D and 6SN7 are at play as factors. Very different tubes for sure.
Charles |
Haven’t ask a very important question, which 101D you are using? |
Hi@gte357s,
Good question that I should have addressed in prior comments. I purchased my CSLS MK II new in 2009 and it came with the Shuguang 101d. This is a good sounding tube at very reasonable cost and is also reliable.
I switched to the Psvane W.E. Replica 101D in 2014. This is a "great" sounding tube.you can hear improvement across the sonic board/spectrum compared to the standard Shuguang 101D. This premium level Psvane is more expensive but IMHO worth the additional cost.
Good versus great , even more air, openness and inner detail and nuance. The Psvane W.E Replica has a fuller more meat on the bone presentation (Relatively speaking) yet remains remarkably transparent and more dynamic. I’ve had them so long I consider them my "standard 101D
Charles |
