Mod my Rega P5 OR...time to move on ??

I`m looking for a broader range of options...thanks

Adding mass is where you are likely to see the most improvement but unfortunately cannot realistically be "upgraded". 

Regards

Former P5 owner and long time record freak here. 

If you're simply into  hearing your records at reasonable/affordable level you're  fine.
Upping your game in step with the rest of your system will make you aware what the P5 lacks, and would never have regardless of tweaking. 

IMO, you're  standing at the crossroads of the audio abyss.

The P5 will not, even with the PSU, spin the platter precisely with a record@33.3 unless it has an AC motor regulated with a  Phoenix-type controller. Putting a $1K+ LOMC on  a P5 is questionable.You're already at the point you lost a  minimum HALF of your investment.

I sold my tweaked P5 at massive loss, but the new owner  was thrilled!
Its a buyers market used. Plenty of choices and you're in the drivers seat.

My ears are pleased,but my wallet isn't.There is no right answer. 

tablejockey: "IMO, you're  standing at the crossroads of the audio abyss"...Yep, been on this path for sometime now, I just haven`t changed components at a pace some do. Just looking to move up like most of us.

Used for sure....What did you go to from your P5 ?

I chose VPI, and have no regret. I equate the Classic as the Rega P5 within the line,regarding value. Currently, it may be the Prime. I see them listed at great prices, and it's a step up from the Classic. Mine is 5 years old and going strong.
The only mistake I made was purchasing new.

With that in mind, a used Classic can be found cheap, or better yet an Aries?

If I were starting fresh right now, I would go Prime. Be prepared for a pleasant surprise whatever you decide. That will be a game changer, like going with a tubed phono.. The 3D arm on the Prime, along with your Herron should put that ZYX in its best light.

Used in the 3-5K(especially the upper end) will remind you what the fuss is all about. 

It really depends on which way you want to go? Heavy Mass loaded tables or stick with a rigid light weight design like a Rega RP8. If you like the Rega sound and are looking to improve upon that in terms of detail, refinement, clarity, finesse, power and a table you can upgrade and tweak to your hearts content, look at a J.A. Michell Gyro SE. Its not rigid or mass loaded  so its not super heavy or light (tension spring suspension).  This will be the last table you buy, I promise. 

Matt M

Never had a VPI but I`ll look into them a little closer.
I actually had a Michell Gyrodec Bronze. I thought it sounded fine, it had an RB300 arm on it.
I found the rotating gold weights distracting after a while...I know that might sound trivial but it started to bug me to the point that I had to sell it.

I purchased a Rega Planar II 35 years ago and applied the following upgrades over that many years ...
- sub platter/bearing ball - all metal/ceramic
- platter - acrylic
- motor - latest version from Rega
- counter weight - Michell Techno-weight
- arm - installed a one piece harness, but eventually installed an Audiomods arm
- plinth - high mass plinth (as opposed to Rega’s low mass plinth design
- various isolation tweaks

If you have not made too many upgrades to date then I believe upgrading the turntable would be more prudent.

The Audiomods arm was perhaps the most effective, but most expensive upgrade, but I believe that its performance would not be as good if not for the plinth/platter/sub-platter upgrades also. They are so dependent on each other that failing to implement any one of them would impact the overall performance.

I am a huge fan of the Audiomods arm and when coupled with the right cartridge, in my case a Soundsmith modified Denon DL 103, it provides exceptional performance.

In it’s day (i.e. 35 years ago), the Rega line was a huge step forward in TT design, but the rest of the industry has found various new design approaches, technologies and materials that level (or surpass) what Rega has to offer in the same snack bracket


The cost of all the upgrades exceeds some very nice TT’s on the market today.

With each upgrade I acquired more knowledge about Rega's TT design (and flaws) and it drove me to pursue more effective isolation tweaks, so that was a benefit of the upgrade path..

One plus - Rega TT’s probably has the larget selection of after market upgrades available, so the choice is vast

On the negative side, you will probably not maintain your Rega’s resale value

Can your Rega be bettered? - of course, by either upgrading or replacement. It’s just a matter of how much time/cash you are willing to invest in. The determination of which upgrade is best also requires considerable anaylsis.

If I had to replace my turntable today i would probably opt for something from the VPI lineup.

Just another opinion :-)

Regards - Steve

Thanks Steve...
I`ve had a few Rega`s now maybe I`ll look for a VPI even though I was thinking a used RP8 would be nice.
I kind of like the skeletal look but I hate that the surround would just be sitting in the box, seems a waste to me.

I would actually prefer an RP8 version of the new P6 and call it a P8 with a 1 piece plinth...
Thanks for the suggestions/help guys !

I put 3 Cardas blocks under my Rega which helped quite a bit.  There is no need to "move on".   Lots of money with only a bit of additional performance.

Substantial improvement is possible without an unnecessarily large outlay.

"I put 3 Cardas blocks under my Rega which helped quite a bit. There is no need to "move on".   Lots of money with only a bit of additional performance."
Did you use the Rega wall mount bracket ? I use one but it`s not on the wall. I have mine attached to the center brace of my rack. 
 
"Substantial improvement is possible without an unnecessarily large outlay"
Details Please...  

It sounds like you have the upgrade bug, and typically a heavy platter table will give you net gains across the board if well designed. Selling your Rega and finding, for example a used heavy Systemdek would be a reliable pathway, among others of similar design.  Cartridge tonearm compatibility is a factor also. I would stay away from anything "vintage" as it's not necessary and there can be downsides. There are high value new tables available also. The better tables are more highly resolving and better reveal layering and transient fidelity not to mention frequency response  and an overall more even, sophisticated sound. Your ZYX is a very  fine cart also. 

If you get an Audiomods arm as an upgrade (which it will surely be), you can keep it if you later decide to move on from Rega (keep the Rega arm to remount). If you DO go with a new VPI table, know that they now come with non-interchangeable arms, of which you may or may not like. The Audiomods and VPI arms are VERY different from one another.

@bdp24 - i would be very interested in knowing how the arms differ.

Do they offer different compliance?

Is their compliance matched to a given TT model?

I've been more focused on their plinth design than their arms to date

Thanks for any info

The Audiomods Series V is $1000 with the micrometer (not sure I need or even want that) and a few dollars less without.
Maybe the Audiomods arm would be a nice match for my cartridge I don`t know.

 A Delrin platter for $350 can be added in for added mods too. 

So at this point I`m looking at another $1250-1350 to be added to the P5.

It`s kinda looking like a late model P9 or an RP8 might be a better deal after all is said and done ?? 

I'm not sure you will notice as much of a difference moving up the Rega line as going to a heavy platter design. Maybe just stick with what you have unless you are finding a particular parameter lacking. 

As a budget alternative I have used ZYX carts in Jelco 750 tonearm and the carts work quite well with the heavier arm. 

http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649386311-vpi-prime-6-months-old-2800/

http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649383010-new-in-box-vpi-classic-1-turntable-with-jmwclassic-1-to...

scm-2 listings that can still be negotiated for less.
The Classic is about double the cost of more mods, and itsa NEW table, clearly superior in build. Since sonics are subjective, just how much "better" it is than the P5?

For a little more, the Prime will have the nicer arm and VTAon the fly.

I will say the modded P5 is reasonably close to the Calssic,but the stock Classic is closer to an uber table more,then any modded P5 will ever be.

Youre treading dangerous waters $$$ dumping more money into that P5

Willie---you can read all about the Audiomods arms on the company's website. They are made by hand by a master machinist, who uses only the latest Rega arm tube, all other parts machined by him in his shop. The design is his own, and contains a lot of unique ideas. A lot of arm for the money.

@bdp24 - apologies - I misread your post. I read it as saying the VPI arms were very different.

I have the Audiomods Classic, so I know about them.

From what I have read the compliance between the two brands is different.

Apologies for the confusion - cheers

Around the time I got back into vinyl I purchased a Rega p324. To me it sounded clean and with all the prat they talk about. Then shortly after I really fell in love with the old Empire tables, so I found a 208, dampened it up and threw a SME m2-9 on it. I gave the Rega to by brother and continue to enjoy the Empire, but the story doesn't end here.
The next thing I did was order an audiomods arm for the Empire.
I'll cut to the chase. I now spin the Empire with the SME and the Audiomods with a modded up Union Jack rp3 and  the Rega sounds clear detailed and very enjoyable with plenty of weight in my system. I would threw an audiomods on your p5, they really are fine tables. On a side note I really like the the rb303 arm. To me it sounds full and cohesive, just not quite as airy and extended in the top end as the Audiomods.

hope this helps
JP

It seems to me that your current cartridge & phono stage are of greater use with a better TT.

Maybe the Audiomods/Rega  are very good for a reasonable price...my Funk Firm/Rega based arm is to die for!

I agree...I would like my phono stage and cartridge to be able to shine their best !
Might look for a mint used Rega RP10

I'm curious to see what the OP decides on, since my path was similar.

I certainly miss the simplicity of the Rega philosophy-just put a record on and lower the arm.

The difficult decision however, is where do you draw the line on tweaking$ and justifying the sonic improvement? 

Post made while listening to my now dated stock Classic(except Mapleshade brass footers and obscenely price maple slab) with Audio Technica ART9.

My P5 just couldnt keep up with the VPI. This of course is my subjective opinion.

@tablejockey,

Thank you for making that distinction! Very important.

A main consideration is (one's personal preferences).

slaw, the wall bracket you have there in your profile looks interesting. I hope your project was a success?

Im fortunate the 100 year old wood planked floor of my place doesn't add the footfall dilemma. I find the low tech(and pricey) Mapleshade philosophy doing its thing with my table.

At this point, only a MAJOR$ system overhaul would satisfy my ears, and that just ain't gonna happen because I'm about $75k short!

@tablejockey ,

It’s a leap of faith based upon my experience within my situation. I’m confident enough without it being ready and in my system to "profile" it. So, you all are watching it develop before it’s implementation. I’m in the phase that now it’s totally up to me to finish it. If it doesn’t work, I’ll be a laughing stock!

I’m still a proponent of decoupling from any structure. I believe I’m also supported by the Townshend video on youtube.

One of my top three main objectives in devising this wall mount system is having the price to sonics ratio being about 20/80. A tall order these days. I hope I can show with some ingenuity and little money, big things can actually happen.

Just an update here.
I`ve added a Groovetracer Acrylic Platter with some very nice results, I like it much better than the glass/felt setup.
I also have an SRM Silent Base on the way.

BUT...Now I`m circling a brand new Rega RP10 with the Apheta 2 and I have a question for the members here:
If I decide to sell the Rega Apheta 2  brand new and unused what would be a reasonable asking price ??  
Because I have the feeling the Apheta isn`t in the same league as the ZYX I`m using right now.

Expect no more than 70% of cost of new Apheta (including discount when bought with table) if you try to sell.  With the Apheta there is no alignment to be set; will you need spacers with the ZYX?  The Apheta is a decent cartridge.  You can also buy the RP10 new w/o cartridge, save you some $$$.

miner42... So $700 ?? seems pretty low

I`ve started a new thread on the subject to get some other`s opinions on this.
Thanks Guys

UPDATE....
I added an SRM Silent Base a few months back and from getting the motor detached from the plinth and using the stainless 'cones' there was a nice drop in noise. 
I`d guess about 30% of what the Groovetracer subplatter did in that regard.

Up until till now, the Groovetracer Reference subplatter was the single most noticeable improvement made (besides cartridge) it really is amazing what it did to lower the noise.

Well, I pulled the Rega RB700 tonearm with its Groovetracer counter weight off and put on a new Origin Live Silver.
The Rega arm is nice but the Origin Live is amazing....

Right away it sounds really good and should improve once the wires season/settle in.....Very happy that I made the change !

I own a P5. It's modded a bit. Didn't get a Groovetracer, but I did upgrade the subplatter with ceramic ball bearing. Easily the best upgrade I've made. It also has Michell counterweight. The counterweight improved the bass, but this wasn't a huge improvement. I think you're at the end of the line in upgrades to your deck. I know I am. I don't see the point in getting a different platter. What I have done this year is get a Benz-Micro Glider with Musical Surroundings Phonomena II+. It was time to replace the cartridge, so I matched the Glider, which I bought here at a really good price, to a phono stage. I was actually looking for a Benz-Micro ACE. Didn't find one cheaper than I paid for the Glider.

The phono stage and cartridge were huge upgrades from a Benz-Micro Gold with a Creek OBH-9. For more subtle improvement, I also added a Jolida XT-R.The Jolida solves the azimuth problem with Rega arms not having any way to this. The Phonomena II+ was a trip down the rabbit hole. I probably would have kept the Creek if I had found an ACE. But the Phonomena II+ is a solid phono stage. I was looking for a used one, but, ended up using a 15% off coupon on an auction site to get the Phonomena II+. I doubt I'll ever replace it. The loading and gain settings are really nice. And it's dead quiet. Supposedly, the Nova is quieter by 5dB. However, I'm very satisfied without the battery power.

UPDATE...I ended up buying a Rega P10 with the Apheta3

I'm going down a similar path, have the Audiomods arm and groovetracer plus michael limm motor isolation. What is your verdict on the P10? should i make the jump?

@qbitstate 

What is your verdict on the P10? should i make the jump?

A friend of mine upgraded from Groovemastered P5 to P9 - big improvement. Then P9 to P10 - bigger improvement again.

Either latest P8 or P10 would be way better than a heavily modded P5. 

I would also bypass the RP series - the latest P8/P10 are really a significant step forward on the previous generations.

Same with the Rega cartridges - I would never have bought a Rega MC a few years ago, but the latest generation are very good.

When I first sat down to listen to my new P10 I had a big smile on my face from the moment the stylus touched down...not because the P10 sounded so good, but because my modded P5 actually sounded so good in comparison !

A very satisfying moment for me.

What`s nice about building up a Rega is that you can make changes one at a time and hear the improvements along the way. A lot of fun too !

Just keep all the original parts.

When I was done the only thing made by Rega on it was the cherry plinth and the NEO power supply, that`s it, even the spindle bearing was swapped out.

Btw..Rega  Alpheta 3 is pretty impressive and I feel it`s not getting the attention it deserves.

Very interesting! ...  Would you say the P10 was subjectively better? 

I've just ordered a SRM silent base and i think that will uplift 

the SQ substantially from what i've read and yes its been quite a fun ride so far with the upgrades.

Things don't always work out though - recently i got the GT Delrin platter and i didn't like the sound. It seemed slow and ponderous compared to the glass/felt combo. It.didn't have the rega PRAT the transients seemed slower overall.

I also tried an origin live platter matt and again didn't like what i was hearing. High freq detail seemed smeared in comparison.

The GT Ref sub platter made a huge difference as did the Neo PSU with its speed control (with 24v motor). The Audiomods 6 ARM is a revalation as well.

I'll def check the Apheta 3. I'm currently running a Hana ML and its astonishingly good esp for the money. I highly recommend you try one, I've had Zyx, EMT etc and the Hana is the best i've heard in my system so far....

I do like the minimalist idea of plonking down a P10 with Apheta 3 and just being instantly at a level where anything else would be diminishing returns.....

 

 

 

 

 

Yes the P10 is better no doubt.

I used the acrylic platter made by Groove Tracer and it sounded just fine to me with no mat.

Cool. I think i will move to the P10 sometime over the next year..