Mid-fi tube vs high-end SS

@decooney  You misunderstand me. I'm very happy with the sound of my system. That comment about the bmr midrange being too neutral is just a concern I have when looking at SS pairing. It's just that reading the reviews of these fantastic SS amps make me really curious.  

 

A tube pre-amp with SS monos sound enticing but I'm trying to have less tubes in my life. haha. 

@samureyex ...It’s just that reading the reviews of these fantastic SS amps make me really curious. A tube pre-amp with SS monos sound enticing but I’m trying to have less tubes in my life. haha.

 

Gotcha. There were some helpful replies in this thread by members sharing with you the pros/cons of sound from each. I’m a 35+ year class A/AB solid state amp owner, until really good tube amps entered the picture for me 8 years ago. Well made tube amps are simple and don’t burn up tubes prematurely. Good USA or Japan made tube amp designs last 50+ years. If you want a lasting SS amp with decent sound, get a Bryston. Was simply trying to relate your BMR speakers will do much better with the right amp driving them. Best of Luck

I currently run a Peachtree Grand x-1 hybrid intergrated amp with 440 watts per channel of class D solid state design.  This unit, like so many others today, have a built in pre-amp that is 'tubed'.  Peachtree has been a leader in making Class D a great way to go with S.S.  The current technology is a big boost in performance, cost and enviornonmentally more desireable.  Significant drop in power needed and used and much less heat.  The pre-amp section with 2 12AU7s gives back the magic of tubes and that 'tube sound'.  I also like any of the Rogue models of hybrid amps.  You can have your cake and eat it too.  Find a hybrid that fits your system and you will have the best of both worlds.

@lowtubes is a sage! Best advice I’ve read in a long time!

Hello Sam, I became curious also with listening to other products and designs. My first hifi amplifier was a Class A solid state design which was extremely good. But reading hifi magazines got interested in tube amplifiers, I wanted to try one. Since, I’ve owned many SS and tube amplifiers throughout the years. So I understand your curiosity and can honestly say that for me, the only thing that would satisfy my curiosity was to travel down the path I did by hearing many them in my home. Some people prefer SS and others prefer tubes. I’ve discovered that I am mostly a tube person but I could be very happy with an all SS system as well. I recently went to my friends home who also is a tube guy to hear a setup he put together. It consists of $40,000 Dac & CD combo, $8,000 monitors, interconnect $3,500 per 3 meters and a class D amplifier $1,200. The sound was fantastic. Even though the rest of this setup is very expensive, I was quite amazed how good the sound was with a little inexpensive amplifier.  Solid State amps have their strengths and tube amps have theirs. It all comes down to which sounds best to you in your system. So even though I prefer tube amps, I still own some very good SS pieces. 

Wow - great thread where the OP has gotten a lot of advice, guidance and opinions.  I’ve been down the road of trying to figure out if I prefer Tube or SS for amps and Pre’s.  

I don’t proclaim to be an expert but have been lucky enough to have plenty of gear and the ability to a/b on my own listening area.  My experience has taught me it’s all about synergy through the chain, room acoustics play a big role (took me quite a while to come to terms with this one) and the most important part of the equation, only persons opinion that matters is yours - if you love it - ignore the noise from others.  

Based on your set up, I’d start by assessing if you love your speakers.  If you do, exploring SS amps makes sense.  Some speaker require a control, efficiency, agility of an amp to be at there best.  From what have read about your speakers, they seem to fall into that category, they can be easy to drive per se but likely would really shine when driven by SS.  What you say you love about the speakers and the characteristics you want to enhance, that would point you to Tubes.  Picking the right SS Amp is key.  Krell, Coda, Pass all have some of the Tube like magic, warmth you find in Tubes but the benefits of SS power / control.  Class A leans into that harder but some A/B designs deliver a tube like experience.  
 

The best combo I have found is a Tube Pre paired with SS amp known for being able to drive almost any speaker while capturing some of that tube magic, a SS amp will likely never fully capture that magic however.  I don’t have any experience with Schiit gear but if you snagged a Freya + and one of their stereo or mono SS amps, should provide the right synergy between Pre and Amp.  Might get you where you want to go.  
 

I’ve had Parasound, Marantz, Anthem, Prima Luna, Krell, Coda all in my system.  I’ve preferred all tubes with certain speakers and SS with others.  Speakers I’ve had various Focal’s, an Omega Speaker and landed on the Alta Audio Alec’s.  All shined with a Tube Pre and SS Amp. 
 

My favorite SS Amps where the Krell’s followed closely by Coda.  I would guess if I moved up to the Coda 16 Amp it would have likely exceeded my love for Krell.  Currently I’ve got a Zesto Leto pre feeding a Krell Duo XD - combo would be well above your budget so not suggesting this path, wanted to give a sense of my personal tastes when it comes to house sound signature.  
 

Good Luck!  

@mm1tt77 Currently I’ve got a Zesto Leto pre feeding a Krell Duo XD - combo would be well above your budget so not suggesting this path, wanted to give a sense of my personal tastes when it comes to house sound signature.

Exactly, this is the gap not usually covered when dealing with the desire of the OP all that well. While many of us can recommend a really good SS amp option, often times well outside of the budget of the requester. And, not wanting to spend $10-15k on a worthy SS class-A or amp myself. For literally HALF the money $, some good mono tube amps out there, with true three dimensional sound, scape, tone, totally engaging sound with mainstream tubes offered today.

The OP mentioned the AVA DVA M225s, Schiit Tyr, looking at the $3k range is a small pool of amps to jump up and down about. I’m intentionally excluding the Benchmark having been there with their quiet-spec gear, and feel it takes a little more $ to buy something truly engaging as a keeper musical amp(s). With the right tube preamp, maybe the Tyr mono amps, might generate some interest, but I’d still likely take a good used Coda if I had to go back to SS. If the OP could bring the budget up a little, there are amps out there to make those BMR speakers sing more. Recap, the OP stated the BMR speakers sounded "neutral". To me that statement can also mean "lacking body" to some. Get the right amp and they won't be overly neutral or lacking body.  Those are nice speakers when paired with the right amp(s).   There are better amps to be had out there for a modest increase in budget. I consider amps core to my system. OP, good-used might be another option too.  

I like your amp, would not consider it mid-fi, a very nice mid-powered tube amp, which I suspect sounds very nice. A bit more power than my Cayin A88T using KT88s 45wpc.

now, your BEAUTIFUL speakers, sensitivity 86 db is NOT easy to drive from a watts/sensitivity perspective, I think the designer is meaning, it's mostly constant 6 ohm impedance curve is not hard to drive.

Probably so, but I would want more power reserves for any speaker with low 86 db sensitivity, for instantaneous peaks, or bi-amp them.

IOW, unlike some KEFs, etc which are difficult to drive, with very low dips of impedance, yours's are consistently near 6 ohm, easy only by comparison to difficult speakers to drive..

So, I would consider the speaker, not the amp.

1st, I would try stuffing up the port. 

It is a transmission design, seems a nasty thing to go against it's method of achievement, however, perhaps it's bass ability is masking it's mids.

a. partially with soft diffuse material, across the face of the port

b. fully with some dense foam

Perhaps with some bass cut, the mids will be very nice.

2. move on to other speakers, higher sensitivity, and one not trying for too much bass which I think can be a mistake people make when reading numbers.

Thank you everyone.

 

@mm1tt77 I’ve seriously considered the Coda 8 (whichever the new version is) at used price. One of the well hidden gem, lesser known in America. With the very limited information about the Tyr as of now, The Tyrs are on the level of the Coda, that is very high praise. There’s gonna be a stereophile review of the Tyrs in January for what it’s worth.

 

@decooney The DVA M225 is 3.4k, The Tyr silvers are very close to 3.9k after tax and shipping which I’m not super thrilled about. I’d love any suggestions even near the 4.5k price range.

 

@elliottbnewcombjr Yea you’re right. I love this freaking tube amp. Mid-fi in price but not in nature. It has given me many beautiful late night listening, Borderline unforgettable. I’ve tried eq’ing down the bass and the problematic 200-400 hz range in youtube. Long story short there’s a massive difference between music on youtube and lossless. Youtube has this muddiness in the said hz range and lowering the EQ on those brought up the clarity substantially. Funnily enough, running lossless on amaon HD with no EQ, the background is extremely black and a calmness to the music I could never get from youtube. This is a rare review of our two amps.

 

The Coda 16 is on another level.  If you are looking at the Coda 8 - put Krell in the mix, I found the 300xd outperformed the Coda, was a step up.  To be fair, haven’t heard the 16 but from what I have read, it’s an End Game, magical amp.  There has been a 15.5 on US Audio Mart for quite awhile upgraded to the 16.  That could be a great option at a great price.  Seller lists it as the “Gordie Howe” of amps.  
 

 

FWIW, John Atkinson gave a very favorable review of the Tyr in the latest S-phile issue, favorably comparing it with the Benchmark and even his Parasound Halo JC-1+.  

Where do you live, I wanna hear that amp and those speakers!!! I’m in Plainfield, NJ, 07062

I might try a graphic equalizer, to ascertain if either boosting the mids a speck, or lowering the bass a bit would get a preferable sound out of those speakers. People tend to try this and that with the controls, too much messing about. I had one, found just a touch here or a slight touch there was enough.

this one has a 32hz band, better when trying to tame bass, many equalizers start higher, i.e. 60hz lowest band.

used one, inexpensive, hear results, go from there. you can learn a lot for $45.

 

independent controls for L and R help if room surfaces, etc vary which is often the case.

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My speakers have 2 L-pads, I can adjust the mid horn relative to the woofer, then adjust the tweeter horn to that mix. Old days, they all came with level controls. Speakers didn’t know what space they would end up in. Adjust for your room, move to another space, re-adjust them for that space, or your preffered sound, or your individual hearing

I use an inexpensive SPL meter, combined with a Test CD with many 1/3 octave bands. After that, adjust for preference, your hearing, ... by ear.

Meter on tripod, ear level, listening position.

$20.

 

https://www.discogs.com/release/7290000-Various-Amazing-Bytes

tracks 9 to 38

expensive, I bet I could find you a copy.

This one is also a line level input selector, has direct/bypass or EQ in, other features, also starts 32hz

 

 

same seller, black

 

he has new ones, not much more $, and he offers 30 day returns

I’m having fun looking on hifishark

DBX, rack mount, balanced connectors

 

This Sherwood starts at 16hz (scratched)

 

 

This custom adjustable McIntosh unit is very interesting. Not for you, but others might find it tempting. 

Seems it is for BASS, either FLAT or boost, some or some more (not to cut bass)

 

review

https://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/mcintosh/mq-104.htm

 

@elliottbnewcombjr  I think you were talking to me about my speaker/amp and location? I live in Boston. It's an unlikely trek from NJ but if opportunity arises, I'd  to have you over and talk some audios and listening to whatever songs come to mind =)

Well, I skirt Boston when I visit my Mother and Brother in Maine. She will be 100 yrs old this coming Feb.

I appreciate the offer. How far in from 495/95 are you? Perhaps we could work out a short visit on the way up or down. 

Let's move to private messages.

You will hear an enormous difference in an SS amp at that budget.  Unfair comparison to your current rig. Perhaps buy a Benchmark off Amazon Prime (30 day return) & give that a try as first step.  Audition and enjoy!