Metrum Onyx versus Metrum Pavane

...Anybody?!

Hi guys! I am interested in the Metrum dacs, but I have a few concerns. Can you detail a bit how the two (Onyx and Pavane) stack up to each other as well as in absolute terms with respect to:

a) the soundstage width (I’ve read that Onyx is quite narrow, I can’t stand anything narrow) and

b) HF extension (I don’t need / like a piercing treble, but I can’t stand a rolled off one, I need to hear all the beautiful HF resonance of a lightly hit triangle decaying naturally, for example, instead of cut short or borrowed in the mix)?
Please if possible mention the inputs and outputs used in your comparison. I’d probably use a CD transport via electrical SPDIF and both the unbalanced and balanced outputs.
Oh, by the way, can something like Ambre be also used for playing music from the computer’s HDD? Sorry if this is a dumb question...

Thanks!

I can’t comment on the Pavane but I feed my Onyx from the baby Ambre via spdif and it sounds better than when I had the USB connection from SoTM sms-200 (which was itself improved when I went through a schiit eitr to convert to spdif prior to getting the baby Ambre!) simpler is better, hence replacing both SoTM and eitr with baby Ambre. I still plan to go i2s from regular Ambre at some point in the future.

Yes I own the Onyx, I have owned it almost since it came out. The dac progression would be:

Peachtree Decco integrated > HRT Music Streamer + > Cambridge Audio Dacmagic + > PS Audio Perfectwave MK2 > Metrum Onyx

I own a portable high res audio player from Pioneer (XDP 100R) which uses the Sabre ESS9018 chips. This is also a fairly high end player as far as that space is concerned.

And of course I heard plenty of other dacs such as the T+A DAC8 DSD, Mytek Brooklyn etc.

I prefer the rounded, tangible nature of the Metrum over the delta sigma dacs I have owned.  This is also an extremely high resolution, noiseless dac. 

+1 @nitewulf -- sage advice.  Do you own the Onyx?  If so, what have you compared it to?

It's not so much about "how better can it get" rather, how astonishingly good the Onyx/Jade are for the price.

Pavane has more output hardware, dual transformers and two more r2r chips (same generation chips as Onyx/Jade) per channel.  So in theory better channel separation and faster calculation. How audible? You decide.

At this level, I'd concentrate more on speakers, speaker placement, room correction than wondering about source upgrades.

Yup Tommd. Agreed, I let Roon do the first unfold for MQA and think it sounds fantastic. Anjo at Metrum told me to not worry about getting the MQA module for Onyx. so there's that!

I2s is a better step compared tot Spdif or AES/Ebu in my set. The match is also SuperB WITH ONYX OR Pavane.
its adviced in MQA to do the unfold by roon. Although it possible to use a MQA module there is hardly SQ improvemend. Because the Metrum is a ladder dac an has no limited filter opions; there for no problems with MQA in standard mode.

The onyx is the best value for money. As said by the developper Cees Ruytenberg himself. But that said the Pavane delivers a bit more relaxing, punch en extra deep bass. It has a bigger powersupply. The only way to notice iff its worth the investment is to compare them both.

I think they use tubes, which I think helps with the sense of utter dimensionality that owners seem to rave about.  No idea if better or worse than Metrum (that's always a personal decision anyway), but I think the use of tubes will make them sound different.  And I emphasize "different," not better or worse.  Again, they have a trial period and if you have the means it would seem like a REALLY good comparison.  Personally, these two are in the top two in my sites so I'd love to hear a comparison.  Someone did a comparison between an Octave and an SW1X DAC and preferred the latter, but I pretty much reject that as I don't think the Octave is near the performance of the Onyx nor an appropriate comparison, so the beat goes on. 

@1markr -- I'd absolutely love to do the comparo, but my amp is currently dead as would be my marriage if I tried to both repair my amp and buy another DAC at the same time.  Very much hoping someone else can do it though. 

@justjames72 …. I've had great success using a Gustard U16 to convert from my laptops USB output to the AES/EBU input on my Onyx. Before that, I used a Matrix X-SPDIF2 powered by an Uptone LPS1.2, and that worked great too, but I think the U16 itself is better. I recommissioned the LPS1.2 to my ethernet switch.

@soix 
So, are you going to take one for the team and audition SW1X against the Onyx? ;)  Would love to hear about that comparison!

Interesting thread as I also was wondering about this given the large price difference between the two.  I guess the implementation of the output stage, etc. is good or similar enough in the Onyx that the extra expensive DAC chips don't make all that big of a difference versus the added cost?  Whatever, this was interesting info. 

Given the apparently relative small gains to be had by spending $$$ on the Pavane, it would seem trying a DAC from another make might make more sense. SW1X is another R2R NOS DAC that seems to be really pleasing their owners, and they offer an in-home trial period (and an upgrade path, I believe). I’d be inclined to try that before considering the Pavane since I think SW1X may be less expensive and will likely produce more absolute differences in sound vs. the Onyx than the Pavane. Whether good or bad, who knows? But that’s why the trial period is so key. FWIW.

@1markr Greetings! That's interesting you say that Qobuz is better. My limited testing showed MQA to be better, but obviously it's all subjective. I don't have MQA enabled in my Onyx either, but I let Roon and the Ambre take care of the first unfold. I think you should def try the Ambre. what do you use now?

@nitewulf @justjames72 - +1!

I enjoy my Onyx as well, and good to know that its so good that the Pavane, even though I'm sure  it's likely a "little" better than the Onyx, it may not be justifiable for the add'l $$ required.

I run mine via AES/EBU from a Gustard U16 DDC (MacBook Pro connected to the U16 via USB), and the music is highly engaging, exciting, while liquid and natural!

I would love to know if the Ambre would be an upgrade to my setup above?? Now that Roon supports Tidal and Qobuz (btw, I think Qobuz hi-res is much better than Tidal MQA, but I don't have the Metrum module in my Onyx to do the second unwrapping of MQA), it might be time to try an Ambre. Any thoughts?

@nitewulf good to know! 

I have the Onyx, it sounds so good and I lead such a busy life that I couldn't justify the Pavane. I spoke to Metrum personnel directly and they kinda agreed. Unless you listen critically everyday, it probably wouldn't make any "real" difference.

I'm using a modified Wyred for Sound Sonos Connect which only has spdif rca digital output.  I'm also using a modified cd transport with the same digital rca output connection to play cds.

I know I've read the I2S is supposed to be better but was wondering for any comments from those that used both.  

The Wyred for Sound does sound very good when streaming Tidal.  At some point I may buy the Ambre with Roon and connect via I2S.

OT but where'd you get an Onyx for $1500? Massive discount!

@mrotino I have not tried any other connection with the Ambre/Onyx. I've heard from multiple people online it was by far the best connection to use.  What streamer do you use now?

Yea, I got the onyx for $1500 and can get the pavane level 3 for $3800 from a friend. Trying to decide.

I have posted on this general topic before. I started out with the Hex (running SPDIF to transport) and "moved up" to the Pavane II a couple years ago. Subtle improvements in detail extraction and info retrieval were the yield. IMO, the Hex represents the better value but the Pavane is more complete. Bought both units new from HiFi Heaven.