You're lucky you can can return the TEAC @smatsui....the guy I bought it from said he doesn't accept returns on accessories. And I have spent a few thousand with him!
The people at Integrity HiFi up in Canada who make the Tru Lift are really nice (Canadians, eh) super helpful with setting it up if you need help (I did, although if I watched their video I probably wouldn't have). The cool thing is that it doesn't touch any part of the table whatsoever, as the model you'd need is specifically made for the P8/P10.
If you know anybody who wants the TEAC/Washi, I'll sell it to them for $20+ shipping. I have 3 extra mats now (Rega, VPI and Washi) and don't need them.....
Just curious, what kind of cartridge are you using with your P10?
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@sokogear,
Sorry I didn't see the 2nd page of this thread or I would have responded sooner. I bought my Teac mat off Amazon (Prime) so it was no cost to return. I was wondering how your Tru Lift could mount to the P8 but now you say they have a specially designed Lift for P8/P10 owners. That's good to know. I'm using the Apheta 3 cartridge. I had a Apheta 2 on the RP10 and my dealer gave me a really good deal to trade up after 4 years of owning it. I think the new stylus on the Apheta 3 along with the improvements Rega made to the tolerances of the bearing in the new tonearm have made the P10 much better in terms of its tracking ability. Records that I thought were bad pressings because I heard distortion with my RP10 now track perfectly with my P10. Thanks for the info on the Tru Lift. |
You're welcome @smatsui. I am enjoying the Herbie's mat. Hey - did you ever consider the Funk Firm Anchromat? It was more expensive and they said the model that fit the Rega was not as good as the other one (3 vs. 5 mm) so I ended my search after the Herbie's got rid of the static cling problem.
You'll like the Tru-lift. Only problem I have is usually once during a given listening session I forget to reset it and then 5 minutes into a side its starts repeating. But it works smoothly once it is set up right and the anti skating is turned down. For some reason Rega is big on anti-skate, but my cartridge recommends a really low setting as does Integrity Hifi. |
@sokogear, I didn't consider the Anchromat but I just took a look at it on the Funk Firm site. The one think I don't like about it is the thickness. The Anchromat is 3mm thick and that's double my stock felt mat. I think that would affect the VTA. I'm completely happy with the Herbie's mat because it got rid of the static issue and it sounds better than my leather, stock and Washi paper mats to my ears in my system. |
I have a P10 and have A/B compared the Washi mat vs. the Rega OEM mat and to my surprise and in my humble opinion the OEM mat sounds better. I really wanted the Washi to win because I too am concerned about it being a magnet for dust. The Washi seemed like the right contender because it is nice and thin much like the felt mat. To me the Washi seemed to suck the juice out of the record, having a toning down effect, compared to the more lively sounding felt mat. Seems Rega knows what works best with their creation. To help solve the dust issue I use an acrylic Hudson mat in between usage which I just place over it. This Hudson mat which is much thicker was my first experimental mat used with the P10 and again to my surprise this caused a feedback issue! When I I finally realized it was the mat that was causing the feedback problem is when I realized that the P10 is a very sensitive instrument and is not something to be tinkered with. The same properties that make this table so great are the same properties that stymie the use of any conventional band aids used to enhance other tables short comings. My next experiment is trying a clamp and so far the heavy aluminum clap I used to use with my VPI doesn’t sound as good as no clamp. So I purchased a lighter weight delrin clamp specifically made for Rega tables. Will this be a waste of money, is yet to be determined as for now I’m feeling like no clamp is going to win due to the experience I had with the other clamp. Besides, things are sounding really incredible with the OME felt mat and no clamp. |
Rega is pretty clear that their design does not benefit from a record weight or clamp. It's based on low mass, so increasing is actually detrimental. For high weight tables it is probably beneficial.
Also, I ended up with Herbie's mat (see above posts) because the Rega mat would lift off sometimes when changing records. I didn't listen closely but I would say the SQ is at least a wash. @smatsui compared them in a very detailed fashion along with some others and he preferred the Herbie's. He has a P10 and I have a P8. I think the Herbie's is even better for my platter than the P10 ceramic, so I'm sticking with it.
If the mat doesn't lift off when you change records due to static, I would just use the Rega one - they know what they are doing. They may even make a thicker one - I think mine is that one that I upgraded on my old P5. |
I was hoping to hear the actual answer to the original poster’s question: has anyone heard the Stein Perfect Interface but so far, not one person has been able to actually answer the one - and ONLY - question they were asked to comment on. (We do that a lot these days don’t we? Even I do sometimes. We answer everything except the question we were asked). It’s a bit like having a woman ask you directly: "Do you love me or not?" And we start talking about how great a cook she is, or what a great guy she is (SMACK! SMACK!) or how there’s nobody like her. We just can’t answer the ONE, simple, direct question put to us.
I can help with that.
I bought a Stein Perfect Interface mat. I bought the $349 mat (the $250 mat is for CDs, not lps). Not that I doubted Jonathan (TAS), but I just didn’t want to expect the moon and just be given a satellite orbiting the earth instead. Onwards, then..
When I put the mat on the lowly Rega Planar 3, and played my first record, I was beyond disappointed. But then, I had purposely picked an old disco record from my days a dj. I knew it was crap, having played it 3 days befor the Stein arrived, just after discovering it again on the shelf with 4,000 other records (no longer alphabetically arranged, I’m sad to say!) I couldn’t tell much difference between the Stein and the mat I had just removed. I literally played one song, and then got up and walked out of the room. I knew it would eventually sound better, but I was hoping it would work on a highly mediocre - if not poor- disco record. I wasn’t expecting miracles, but neither was I expecting... absolutely nothing at all. At least, nothing I could point to as "Wow, that doesn’t sound half bad!" I got. NOTHING. Nada. Zilch. And that WAS disappointing. So I went outside and chopped down an invasive bush in the back yard (all thorns, kinda like I was feeling inside).
Hours later, I decided it was time and I went back into the music room and put on the 200 gram, Classic Records release of Faustus, the ballet. I’d had it for years, listened to it....once. And not even all the way through.
It started up. I held my breath. WHOA, NELLIE! This was a completely different ball of wax. By the way, I used it on an original Rega Planar 3, like, totally dude, one made in the Dark Ages of 1988. Faustus sprang to life in a way I would not have expected.
I must confess, I tried to sabotage hearing the effect by using my NAD C356BEE integrated, which, while good, tends to not separate out musical lines that well. The Stein came on like Superman: "I’LL SAVE YOU!"
Suddenly, you can hear most of the acoustic of the London Symphony Orchestra in a way that doesn’t sound like the orchestral sections "beamed-me-up-Scotty" into the room when their section way playing. It sounded like EVERYBODY’S section was playing, the limitations of the NAD and the Rega, notwithstanding. The sound developed a heretofore "liquid" sound (NOT a trait of the Rega OR the NAD) and the presentation overall was quite persuasive. Flutes sounded "rounder" (aka, more three-dimensional), along with the rest of the orchestra.
I could wax poetic, but I don’t see the point. This isn’t merely a mat, it’s something that causes you to be enveloped inside the music, not just "watching" it and hearing it. If it were an amplifier, I’d say I went from an NAD to a VAC Renaissance 70/670 (which I’ve owned), or from a Rega top perhaps a Goldmund Studio/T3F turntable setup. So, my attempts at sabotage (I like to play AGAINST the odd sometimes in my experimentation with audio, leftover from my days as a reviewer), I failed. Completely.
However, UNLIKE Jonathan Valin, this did NOT do it to "each and every lp" I played. BUT, I’ve only played 4 so far. The Stein arrived very recently and there were other matters that were urgent and demanded immediate attention.
So, I’ll play other records, and note which ones (poor record quality, mediocre record quality, or good record quality) showed the most improvement. Frankly, I want to hear how Maria Callas sounds. And then I’ll move the turntable setup to my Nottingham, just for comparison, but that’s weeks away.
Suffice it to say, after perhaps 10-15 mats, nothing else was even in the same galaxy. I think there’s pixie dust in them thar pieces of trees that make up that mat, because it is most assuredly magical, and it won’t take long to hear it, unless you play only modern pop music - and who knows, even that might sound better. But my guess is, it will take recordings of acoustic instruments to show the Stein’s greatest glories, so I’m not sure Kraftwerk will do the trick (but i’m sure gonna find out in the next few days, now that I’ve got 3 days to listen without dreary work intruding)!
I like this better than when I got a Hana ML, the Audio Research Vsi60, the Nordost Tyr 2 interconnects, the Shunyata Anaconda speaker cable (or even the Shunayta Sigma NR I bought years ago). They were all great and made music wonderful to listen to. What they didn’t do was surprise me to the degree the Stein did. I expected each and every one of THOSE components to sound as good as they did, because I’d had enough experience in the upper reaches of audio Boy-Toy Land over the past 40 years. The only other component that did what the Stein did to a greater degree was my ASL Hurricanes, which, the first time I heard them, made me whip around ( was heading to the listening chair), utterly unnerved by how utterly "real" the music sounded. Which means better than my Jadis amps, Goldmund amps, WATTS, any cartridge you care to name, and almost any speaker system I’ve heard for the first time (except the Manger speakers I got for review, back in 2005, which were as spooky as the Hurricanes. Too bad the Mangers arrived with one speaker smashed by UPS, so I got to hear it for a few hours. Than I moved them to another room, and whatever was already wrong got worse and I never heard the Hurricanes and the Mangers together. Not hyperbole, either. You just expect a proportionate response based on how much money you spent. The Stein sounded like my system had just had a $10,000 component dropped into it. (And with vastly less setup effort, which as most of us know, is part of what is required for the results: blood, sweat and tears (and wishing and hoping) to get that big thrill. This was much too simple. It just shouldn’t have been THAT good for absolutely NO effort (aside from the expenditure itself). Where was the pain, the suffering, the agonizing? It just shouldn’ta been that good. Not with just a Rega and an NAD. Disproportionate Joy.
For its price, and for what it does, the Stein is stunning. Mostly because you won’t expect - or believe - what comes out of your speakers. I’m sure there are more dazzling components around, but then, you’ll have spent 10k to 50k on them. For 350 smackers, the Stein’s unbeatable in my book. |
@gbmcleod ,
It became clear the OP wasn’t interested in spending the kind of money the Stein cost.
I now have two P10 customers using two MyMats. One hasn’t received his yet but the other, raves. I also am a proponent of using no weights or clamps.
Sadly, for many, my product has sold out.
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@savvygrip,
"Seems Rega knows what works best with their creation."
That's reassuring.
Especially as we are talking about the highly respected top of the range P10.
If it was somehow not the case then someone at Rega might need to answer a few questions.
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FYI- I started a new mat discussion last week looking for other alternatives because the dirt accumulating on the white part of Herbie’s mat was bothering me and I had to keep taking it off and wiping it down, so I thought maybe the static issues with my Rega mat would disappear with the humidity of the summer. I tried it and although it still lifted off when flipping the records, I thought it sounded slightly better than Herbie’s, kind of like bypassing tone controls even when they’re set at 12 o’clock.
After all was said and done I made the smallest yet impactful investment in my stereo ever:$2,97 for double sided scotch tape, and put 6 1” strips at the edges of my platter and put the Rega thick mat back down. Doesn’t budge and I’m happy. Sold the Herbie’s on US AM in an hour for $50.
At the end of all of this, I think if the TEAC Washi mat was not quite as large, it wouldn’t come up with records off the platter, and that mat sounded as good as or better than the Rega.
I think the price of the Stein mat is ridiculous and a friend of mine tried it on his P10 and thought it was a giant rip off. Maybe as good as the Rega.
Roy Gandy knows what he is doing. |
I'm now using the Teac Washi mat with my Planar 8 and I no longer have any static issues or mat lift issues. It's roughly the same size as my platter (which is smaller than a record) so I don't understand why people are having issues picking up the mat with the record given the record overhangs about a 1/4 inch.
If I hadn't blown my money on a Planar 8 before I read the review about the Stein Perfect mat being equal to $10k component upgrade I would have kept the Planar 2 and gone that direction. Missed opportunity I suppose.
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@guy-incognito you are joking, right, $10K component upgrade for $650 in a mat?
$$ spent on a P8 is not “blown”. IMHO it is the best value at its price point be a lot. The arm alone is almost worth the price. It is fantastic.
too bad my Washi mat kept coming up- I guess it was static and not size, but I seem to remember it being hard to get the record up without the mat, and I didn’t think it was static. Oh well...
I think it may have been slightly thinner than my thicker Rega mat (not standard issue I don’t believe), I think I kept it from my old P5 when I bought the special mat, or the P8 came with the upgraded one. Not sure. |
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If I remember correctly, that also had to be glued to the platter, which is what I was originally trying to avoid. If I was going to tape or glue something down, I might as well keep the Rega mat. |
Um... yes, I was being facetious.
That said, the recent glowing review above does compare adding a Stein mat to be in the same league as adding $10k worth of system upgrades. So what do I know? Probably no hyperbole there. |
Even more hyperbole than MC.....although a different type. MC believes it, I can't see how this guy does. He is trolling.
If you read the note from @gbmcloud, he said he used the mat on the "lowly P3". How can you say anything is worth $10K when using that? Maybe the other components are so great and the P3 is so far below those levels that the difference was significant. More than upgrading to a $5K table?
Please.... |
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And I just saw two typos in my post.
But the biggest was:
"The Stein sounded like my system had just had a $10,000 component dropped into it."
I meant to type "$2,000 component dropped into it."
So much for posting after a cutting down some trees and limbs for 4 hours! My fingers were a-quiverin'!
One thing hasn’t changed: the benefits will be most audible on classical, older (minimally mike) music, and not the over-produced records so prevalent in the 80s and 90s. I was somewhat unhappy with the fact that, although there were improvements (mainly heard in the voice tracks), that the other records didn’t demonstrate the same degree of improvement, although transients were generally better everywhere.
I’m still euphoric about the mat, but only over about 1/3 of my collection so far.
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When it comes to the P10 my suggestion is...Deal with the mat it comes with. It’s Merino wool so it’s not like they went the cheap route. I am not going to try and out-think Gandy on this one. Will a new mat make an impact? Probably...Will it be better, thats subjective.
I’m more than satisfied with the sound I get from this table, not going to meddle with it if it produces the results that satisfy my soul. Truth be told, I can’t believe not one person in this thread has suggested anti-static measures before replacing the mat. There are so many things you can do to destat and completely eliminate this issue. Worked for me, I have zero desire to change the mat now and I have resolved two issues with one solution. Mat doesn’t lift, and much less dust attraction. We audiophiles sometimes over think the solutions to problems we face and hundreds of $$ for a mat with mixed opinions just doesn't seem like a good way to spend money. Buy some records with that money instead.
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Not sure if I told about my "final" mat choice which I got I think in the beginning of 2022 (Covid put things in a time warp) after it was highly recommended by a fellow 'Goner on any different discussions over the past 1 1/2 + years.
It is made by a tiny company in Hungary and it is called the Hexmat Eclipse. They also have a less expensive version called the Yellowbird. Unfortunately the prices went up as Covid evolved. I think it is around $300 now sold direct or I think through Music Direct.
It actually lifts the record very slightly off the platter with tiny nubs that pop through each side of the secret substance mat, but the entire lift is exactly equal to the stock Rega mat. The Audiophile guy said it was his favorite mat and he is kind of fanatical.
I didn't notice much of any specific change in sound (I think I made other slight changes around that time), but in theory, it should isolate the record from almost noise on the platter since the total square area touching the platter is minuscule.
1) It does not accumulate much if any dust or dirt (like the Rega mat and Herbie's)
2) It does not lift off the table ever since it is fairly rigid and it's hex shape doesn't come near the outer ring of the platter (like the Rega and Washi and VPI)
3) It looks really cool when a record is spinning, like the record is floating above the table (not a key factor, but it is nice)
I couldn't live with the knowledge that the scotch tape was holding my Rega mat down and the dust was annoying me. I know .... OCD.
P.S. FYI - I like it so much that when Hexmat first came out with another product, the Molekula record stabilizer in the Spring of '22 (works like a clamp) I bought it to try to stabilize any of my records that are thinner with any kind of warp. They recommend using it on every record, but it is another step in OCD process of playing a record (and they say you should turn the turntable off when putting it on the record or taking it off - which I don't. just have to be real careful to pick it up quickly). It is the only clamp type product that will work with the short spindle of the Rega P8. Once again not cheap - I think it was around $120 and had to buy it direct at that point from Hexmat in Hungary. Delivery was surprisingly very quick.
It is hard to justify these things, but once the money is gone, I forgot about it, and compared to the entire analogue section of my system (table, cartridge, phono stage, shelf, vibration control, phon stage to amp cable), it is in total about 5% for both products.
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They all do what they do....buy a bunch that are returnable and try them in your own system. There is no right answer
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@gbmcleod, you didn’t answer the OP’s one simple question any better than anyone else. The OP’s question was for the Stein mat with a P10, not a Planar 3.
Regarding dust showing on the Herbie’s mat, I would rather be able to see it and clean it. The dust is there regardless of you being able to see it or not. I clean the Herbie’s mat by simply rinsing it off and patting it dry with a lint free cloth. The stock P10 mat that I have is white and I can’t see the dust even though it’s there. The stock mat isn’t very easy to clean.
In my system and for my preferences, I still prefer the Herbie’s Way Excellent mat on my P10 for SQ, elimination of static cling to records, and for its relatively low cost.
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@smatsui - you should give the Hexmat (either Yellowbird or Eclipse) a shot. If Music Direct has them, you can return it if you dont like it no questions asked. For what you’ve invested in the P10, its seemingly high price is tiny if you think it improves the sound. What you said about the dust is not really true. If the surface attracts dust, it will accumulate more. My dust cover is always on top of the mat, so whatever the antistatic properties of the Hexmat are, they repel dust. Do I ever wipe it down? Of course, but not nearly as much as Herbie’s, which attracts dust.
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@sokogear, thanks for the recommendation but I’m happy with my Herbie’s mat. I rarely need to clean it and I like the way it looks. Most importantly, I like the way my system sounds with the Herbie’s mat.
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@smatsui - just thought you might like it better and give it a shot. Herbie’s ended up being my 2nd choice and I did have it for a while.
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Just looked at the Hexmat on the Music Direct site. $375 for the Eclipse, no thanks! Its 3mm thickness is 1.5mm thicker than my white P10 stock mat so it would affect VTA. I also don't like the looks of them.
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Wow - they went up a lot! I paid under $300 (they had a 10% discount in an accessory sale when I bought it.) Maybe the P10 has a different mat height, but mine is 2mm, and a 1 mm difference is not a big deal since record thicknesses can vary by more than that much and as you know VTA is not adjustable on Rega's arms. According to Roy Gandy, very small differences are not worrisome with the length of their arms. It it was something of a larger due to cartridge height, they sell 2 mm adaptors.
Many, many Rega owners bought the Eclipse.
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I measured my stock mat at 1.5mm thick using a digital micrometer. The P8 has a different stock mat so it's no surprise that its thickness is different. I consider a 1.5mm thickness difference significant. Looks are subjective but I don't like the looks of the Hexmat and its $375 price tag is a no go for me.
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I didn't realize the P10 has a different mat than the P8. Maybe the P10 platter is thicker. I got the P8 close to when it first came out and the P10 was still a confirmed rumor (so I never saw one) with no release date in sight. Rega sells other color wool mats and says they fit all Rega tables. Either they forgot about the P10, or they think a 1/2mm difference is insignificant.
The cool thing about the Hexmat looks is when a record is playing how it looks like the record is floating above the platter. When it is on the platter with no record on it, it certainly looks different. I could take or leave that, but the look while spinning I like very much. If I had a white platter, I might think differently.
Anyhow from a purely sound (not functionality) standpoint, it is tough to tell the difference between the Rega, Herbie's and Hexmats, which is why I watched the Audiophile Man's review of the Hexmat, but as usual, he basically said you get what you pay for and didn't say which was the best bang for the buck, but since the Hexmat was most expensive, he unsurprisingly liked it the best, by a good bit.
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A very positive experience with the Herbies Way Excellent 2 compared to the Linn felt mat for me. I have a 2mm that Herbies recommends for the LP12 so no measurement issues. Makes a much better connection to the platter which I suppose is how it tightened up the sound nicely from bass through top end.
The Linn felt mat would often lift up when removing a record and I’ve always been worried that it could catch the stylus. The Herbies stays put which is great.
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