You're lucky you can can return the TEAC @smatsui....the guy I bought it from said he doesn't accept returns on accessories. And I have spent a few thousand with him!
The people at Integrity HiFi up in Canada who make the Tru Lift are really nice (Canadians, eh) super helpful with setting it up if you need help (I did, although if I watched their video I probably wouldn't have). The cool thing is that it doesn't touch any part of the table whatsoever, as the model you'd need is specifically made for the P8/P10.
If you know anybody who wants the TEAC/Washi, I'll sell it to them for $20+ shipping. I have 3 extra mats now (Rega, VPI and Washi) and don't need them.....
Just curious, what kind of cartridge are you using with your P10?
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For now it’s Washi.you never mentioned your recommendation lewm. Please enlighten me.
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appreciate your honesty. It's trial and error. A lot of error.
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If I remember correctly, that also had to be glued to the platter, which is what I was originally trying to avoid. If I was going to tape or glue something down, I might as well keep the Rega mat. |
I just got a TEAC washi mat for my Rega P8 because the Rega mat would come up when flipping or changing records sometimes due to static. This type mat came highly recommended and eliminates static. It's just 1mm thick and so far for 5 days it sounds better - a little tighter/more exact, although that could just be a placebo effect and it is very subtle. Being 1 mm thinner than the Rega mat should not cause an audible difference from the cantilever angle standpoint. It is very stiff - almost like a record because of the material in between the 2 washi sheets. Pretty cool looking too. The long time owner of a stereo store said he has one on all 3 of his tables, but he is not a Rega dealer. To be honest, I was not looking to improve the sound which is great, just to eliminate the static/mat lifting problem.
For all you Rega haters complaining about the lack of VTA adjustments on their arms, there are things called spacers that can correct for cartridge height. I guess if your cartridge were shorter than Rega's it could be a problem. I don't see anyone in the market with better value arms than Rega. |
I got my Washi because the static caused the mat to come up with the record sometimes. I don’t think the felt one from Rega is a piece of junk at all. I trust them as they do extensive testing and I’m sure it sounds best. It doesn’t deteriorate over time like cork (very good also).Other expensive ones I think are a waste of $$ and some may change the sound. Rega delivers uncolored sound IMO.
i could care less how the Washi looks, and in the last few days has started to soften up slightly and even came up with the record once or twice although I may have unintentionally grabbed it when picking up a record.
if it happens more often, I’ll go back to the Rega. I think the Washi may sound a little tighter and exact-not sure if I like it better or not.
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I gave up after more frustration with the Washi lifting off with the record. Ordered Herbies -it’s silicon underneath to hold onto the platter and have some absorption/sponginess and has a layer on top. It was $60. Hopefully this will do it.
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I am almost at my wits end with this. I have the Washi mat (which is supposed to sound better), the Rega original mat, and last week when I was at VPI (new VDH distributor) getting my Van den hul cart replaced, he gave me a VPI mat that has a plastic like backing to a felt mat that he said will never come up from static. It did - several times.
I went back to the Washi and I think the problem with it is that it is slightly larger than the others and may come up because I am lifting it when I lift the record, not form static. If it keeps happening, I am going to put a couple very small pieces of 2 sided scotch tape between the Rega mat and the platter and be done with it. That where the cartridge is set up for anyhow, and the Washi is about 1 mm thinner as is the VPI.
Sometimes practicality and usability become the primary issues. As a side note, the Tru Lift arm lifter I recently got works great (after some tricky adjusting during set up), as long as I remember to reset it every time it lifts the arm before the next record plays. When you're used to doing a ritual for 40 years unconsciously, it takes time to change. Place the record on the mat, brush it, cue it, release the cue......The problem is you don't need the Tru-Lift when you lift off the arm yourself sometimes, so I am always checking it. Oh well, first world problems.... |
You'll be a mat analyst. I was thinking of trying the Jakes leather one and the Funk Firm one. I like the Washi (TEAC) Supposedly, as it breaks in a little more it won't lift off the table when I change records. It's only 1 mm so 1/2 the thickness of the Rega mat. The smaller FF one is 3 mm (and they recommend the 5 mm one which is out of the question), and supposedly the size of the leather one was off, so I am hoping the TEAC will break in properly. Supposedly that is the best design - a grippy surface with a very slightly padded internal sections with a backing that sticks to the platter well.
Please let us know about how Herbie's compares and what it costs.
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Matsui-you really wil be a mat analyst. I thought I was going off the deep end with this,but it looks like you already dove right in. Interested to hear what you think, but the P10 ceramic is different than the P8 multi layer outer weighted Glass combo platter, which could explain why the Washi is working for arturgorniak and not me. Anxious to try Herbie’s this week.
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You will see the pattern on the TEAC if it is spinning. Looks nice. At this point, looks aren’t even a consideration if the mat can stay on the platter without the need for tape. Plus the thickness of Herbies matches the stock Rega mat thickness.
the TEAC mat isn’t bigger than a record, but it may be very slightly bigger than the platter which may cause me to lift it. I don’t think it’s a static issue like the felt ones.
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I am happy to report that I received Herbie's mat on Friday and it works perfectly! No static and it is a pleasure not having to worry about the mat lifting every time I change a record. As far as looks go, it looks like a record is on the platter from any distance.
It seems to sound a bit more open, but my cartridge is just about approaching the 50 hour initial burn in period, so the improvement may be due to that.
For me, game over. Can't believe someone would spend $650 for a mat. $60 was plenty for me and I am extremely happy.
Hey Steve - you should try the tru lift arm lifter from Integrity hifi (only sell through dealers) and you won't have to sorry as much if a record is still playing. Once adjusted, it works great. Not cheap (around $300) but I really like it (except when I forget to resist it - it takes time to get used to an extra little step).
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smatsui-forgot to thank you for introducing me to Herbie’s mat. I wouldn’t have done the research and would still be unhappy with the mat. I really am thrilled with it’s solid feel without being too heavy and complete lack of any issue changing records.
i agree with your mat analysis 100%. We’ll see if I can return the TEAC..
I would recommend taking a look at the Tru lift tonearm lifter. Can’t believe I lived without it for the +\- 20 years I’ve been using a manual table. |
You're welcome @smatsui. I am enjoying the Herbie's mat. Hey - did you ever consider the Funk Firm Anchromat? It was more expensive and they said the model that fit the Rega was not as good as the other one (3 vs. 5 mm) so I ended my search after the Herbie's got rid of the static cling problem.
You'll like the Tru-lift. Only problem I have is usually once during a given listening session I forget to reset it and then 5 minutes into a side its starts repeating. But it works smoothly once it is set up right and the anti skating is turned down. For some reason Rega is big on anti-skate, but my cartridge recommends a really low setting as does Integrity Hifi. |
Rega is pretty clear that their design does not benefit from a record weight or clamp. It's based on low mass, so increasing is actually detrimental. For high weight tables it is probably beneficial.
Also, I ended up with Herbie's mat (see above posts) because the Rega mat would lift off sometimes when changing records. I didn't listen closely but I would say the SQ is at least a wash. @smatsui compared them in a very detailed fashion along with some others and he preferred the Herbie's. He has a P10 and I have a P8. I think the Herbie's is even better for my platter than the P10 ceramic, so I'm sticking with it.
If the mat doesn't lift off when you change records due to static, I would just use the Rega one - they know what they are doing. They may even make a thicker one - I think mine is that one that I upgraded on my old P5. |
FYI- I started a new mat discussion last week looking for other alternatives because the dirt accumulating on the white part of Herbie’s mat was bothering me and I had to keep taking it off and wiping it down, so I thought maybe the static issues with my Rega mat would disappear with the humidity of the summer. I tried it and although it still lifted off when flipping the records, I thought it sounded slightly better than Herbie’s, kind of like bypassing tone controls even when they’re set at 12 o’clock.
After all was said and done I made the smallest yet impactful investment in my stereo ever:$2,97 for double sided scotch tape, and put 6 1” strips at the edges of my platter and put the Rega thick mat back down. Doesn’t budge and I’m happy. Sold the Herbie’s on US AM in an hour for $50.
At the end of all of this, I think if the TEAC Washi mat was not quite as large, it wouldn’t come up with records off the platter, and that mat sounded as good as or better than the Rega.
I think the price of the Stein mat is ridiculous and a friend of mine tried it on his P10 and thought it was a giant rip off. Maybe as good as the Rega.
Roy Gandy knows what he is doing. |
@guy-incognito you are joking, right, $10K component upgrade for $650 in a mat?
$$ spent on a P8 is not “blown”. IMHO it is the best value at its price point be a lot. The arm alone is almost worth the price. It is fantastic.
too bad my Washi mat kept coming up- I guess it was static and not size, but I seem to remember it being hard to get the record up without the mat, and I didn’t think it was static. Oh well...
I think it may have been slightly thinner than my thicker Rega mat (not standard issue I don’t believe), I think I kept it from my old P5 when I bought the special mat, or the P8 came with the upgraded one. Not sure. |
Even more hyperbole than MC.....although a different type. MC believes it, I can't see how this guy does. He is trolling.
If you read the note from @gbmcloud, he said he used the mat on the "lowly P3". How can you say anything is worth $10K when using that? Maybe the other components are so great and the P3 is so far below those levels that the difference was significant. More than upgrading to a $5K table?
Please.... |
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Not sure if I told about my "final" mat choice which I got I think in the beginning of 2022 (Covid put things in a time warp) after it was highly recommended by a fellow 'Goner on any different discussions over the past 1 1/2 + years.
It is made by a tiny company in Hungary and it is called the Hexmat Eclipse. They also have a less expensive version called the Yellowbird. Unfortunately the prices went up as Covid evolved. I think it is around $300 now sold direct or I think through Music Direct.
It actually lifts the record very slightly off the platter with tiny nubs that pop through each side of the secret substance mat, but the entire lift is exactly equal to the stock Rega mat. The Audiophile guy said it was his favorite mat and he is kind of fanatical.
I didn't notice much of any specific change in sound (I think I made other slight changes around that time), but in theory, it should isolate the record from almost noise on the platter since the total square area touching the platter is minuscule.
1) It does not accumulate much if any dust or dirt (like the Rega mat and Herbie's)
2) It does not lift off the table ever since it is fairly rigid and it's hex shape doesn't come near the outer ring of the platter (like the Rega and Washi and VPI)
3) It looks really cool when a record is spinning, like the record is floating above the table (not a key factor, but it is nice)
I couldn't live with the knowledge that the scotch tape was holding my Rega mat down and the dust was annoying me. I know .... OCD.
P.S. FYI - I like it so much that when Hexmat first came out with another product, the Molekula record stabilizer in the Spring of '22 (works like a clamp) I bought it to try to stabilize any of my records that are thinner with any kind of warp. They recommend using it on every record, but it is another step in OCD process of playing a record (and they say you should turn the turntable off when putting it on the record or taking it off - which I don't. just have to be real careful to pick it up quickly). It is the only clamp type product that will work with the short spindle of the Rega P8. Once again not cheap - I think it was around $120 and had to buy it direct at that point from Hexmat in Hungary. Delivery was surprisingly very quick.
It is hard to justify these things, but once the money is gone, I forgot about it, and compared to the entire analogue section of my system (table, cartridge, phono stage, shelf, vibration control, phon stage to amp cable), it is in total about 5% for both products.
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@smatsui - you should give the Hexmat (either Yellowbird or Eclipse) a shot. If Music Direct has them, you can return it if you dont like it no questions asked. For what you’ve invested in the P10, its seemingly high price is tiny if you think it improves the sound. What you said about the dust is not really true. If the surface attracts dust, it will accumulate more. My dust cover is always on top of the mat, so whatever the antistatic properties of the Hexmat are, they repel dust. Do I ever wipe it down? Of course, but not nearly as much as Herbie’s, which attracts dust.
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@smatsui - just thought you might like it better and give it a shot. Herbie’s ended up being my 2nd choice and I did have it for a while.
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Wow - they went up a lot! I paid under $300 (they had a 10% discount in an accessory sale when I bought it.) Maybe the P10 has a different mat height, but mine is 2mm, and a 1 mm difference is not a big deal since record thicknesses can vary by more than that much and as you know VTA is not adjustable on Rega's arms. According to Roy Gandy, very small differences are not worrisome with the length of their arms. It it was something of a larger due to cartridge height, they sell 2 mm adaptors.
Many, many Rega owners bought the Eclipse.
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I didn't realize the P10 has a different mat than the P8. Maybe the P10 platter is thicker. I got the P8 close to when it first came out and the P10 was still a confirmed rumor (so I never saw one) with no release date in sight. Rega sells other color wool mats and says they fit all Rega tables. Either they forgot about the P10, or they think a 1/2mm difference is insignificant.
The cool thing about the Hexmat looks is when a record is playing how it looks like the record is floating above the platter. When it is on the platter with no record on it, it certainly looks different. I could take or leave that, but the look while spinning I like very much. If I had a white platter, I might think differently.
Anyhow from a purely sound (not functionality) standpoint, it is tough to tell the difference between the Rega, Herbie's and Hexmats, which is why I watched the Audiophile Man's review of the Hexmat, but as usual, he basically said you get what you pay for and didn't say which was the best bang for the buck, but since the Hexmat was most expensive, he unsurprisingly liked it the best, by a good bit.
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