If you need to replace your older panels on Martin Logan speakers.You will get a sticker shock.They have tripled their price.Really sad.This will drive the price of resale down.Bad move on ML part.
"Just to survive the buisness climate that this current President has created."
1. Let's leave the politics out of this audio forum
2. Are you completely unaware that the economic catastrophe that almost completely shut down the U.S. banking system, put 2 of the big 3 auto makers into bankruptcy, required a bailout of Wall St. began in 2008 - under our former President? Are you also completely unaware that this economic crisis is even worse in Europe, of which our President is not the president?
Would you rather ML just go out of business? Fire employees? How about outsource to offshore production? Companies have to do what they have to do to survive.
Thank you Mateored, lets keep politics in this audio forum! Obama was handed an impossible mess to clean up. It hasn't been easy, and it sure ain't pretty. My full time brick and morter business grossed $54.00 this week but I am not blaming Obama for the implosion caused by decades of misguided policies. If he had not done what he did since taking office, our country would be in a much worse state than you could ever imagine. As for Martin logan, they will go the way of Manley labs who also raised prices recently. In the end, the consumer will decide FOR them whether this was a good move or not. I suspect the panel prices were artificially low as a good will gesture to their customers since panel replacement sadly seems to be an inevitable need with their electrostatics. They may have never made much money on them.
I'm not familiar with ML speakers (have only seen them in stores), but why is the replacement cost of panels such an issue. Do they get consumed and need to be replaced every year or 3?
Also, if they need it, can't they be refurbished like other ES panels or dynamic drivers? If so, ML's pricing may create a bus opportunity for one of the repair guru's out there.
+1 Mateored & Hifiharv Remember, Bobo7- that it was WARREN Buffet (not Jimmy) who said that of course there is class warfare in this country; the rich are waging war on the rest of the country and they are kicking our asses! And that it was the Bush II who thought we could wage 2 wars AND cut taxes w/o driving the country in bankruptcy. Think of it; if the Soviet Union had held on a few more years, we might be the country run by organized crime, with a declining life expectancy and the Soviets might be the sole superpower!!! Imagine them duking it out w the Chinese for world supremacy.
All this discussion and no mention of how much these panels cost to replace. If they were $100, then $300 is not too bad. If they were $1000, then $3000 seems a bit much. If they need to be replaced often and the price seems too high, then their value will drop. Simple as that.
What does politics have to do with it? I agree with the post that said the consumer will ultimately decide if this was a good move by ML.
I am surprised that a discussion about speaker panels turned into a presidential debate. Why does the OP think Martin Logan really cares about the secondary, or "resale" market? I buy used all the time and only want fully functional gear but I never really think, well if this blows up what's it going to cost me? OTOH I try to buy reliable gear. The whole repair process sucks not just the cost. I will repreat the question posed above. Do the panels usually wear out? I still use my Father's JBLs from 1959, they work fine but might need "remagnetizing." The cost of repairs outside of the warranty is usually pretty expensive. That is this industry's normal and customary policy. Fortunately I have not had expensive repairs outside of warranty except for 2 CD players which had a transport failures, I had no option but to toss them. They were relatively inexpensive to begin with and the repairs would have cost more than they were worth.
@Onhwy61, I am not saying they should just go out of business. I was just point out the fact that once it went mainstream, like selling at Best Buys, their focus had changed. It was probably the right decision for the business but it wasn't a good change for us, the audiophiles.
@Mateored(et al) This is just a History lesson. I am posting it to all regardless of party . I bet I know who won't read it -- those afraid of the truth. It is history and nothing can change it. But Obama is trying, by campaigning on "how bad the debt was that he inherited!" The day the Democrats took over was not January 22nd 2009, it was actually January 3rd 2007, the day the Democrats took over the House of Representatives and the Senate, at the very start of the 110th Congress.
The Democratic Party controlled a majority in both chambers for the first time since the end of the 103rd Congress in 1995.
For those who are listening to the liberals propagating the fallacy that everything is "Bush's Fault", think about this: January 3rd, 2007, the day the Democrats took over the Senate and the Congress: The DOW Jones closed at 12,621.77 The GDP for the previous quarter was 3.5% The Unemployment rate was 4.6% George Bush's Economic policies SET A RECORD of 52 STRAIGHT MONTHS of JOB CREATION! Remember that day... January 3rd, 2007 was the day that Barney Frank took over the House Financial Services Committee and Chris Dodd took over the Senate Banking Committee. The economic meltdown that happened 15 months later was in what part of the economy? BANKING AND FINANCIAL SERVICES! THANK YOU DEMOCRATS (especially Barney ) for taking us from 13,000 DOW, 3.5 GDP and 4.6% Unemployment...to this CRISIS by (among MANY other things) dumping 5-6 TRILLION Dollars of toxic loans on the economy from YOUR Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac FIASCOES! (BTW: Bush asked Congress 17 TIMES to stop Fannie & Freddie -starting in 2001 because it was financially risky for the US economy). Barney blocked it and called it a "Chicken Little Philosophy" (and the sky did fall!) And who took the THIRD highest pay-off from Fannie Mae AND Freddie Mac? OBAMA And who fought against reform of Fannie and Freddie? OBAMA and the Democrat Congress, especially BARNEY!!!! So when someone tries to blame Bush... REMEMBER JANUARY 3rd, 2007.... THE DAY THE DEMOCRATS TOOK OVER! I'm done(thank you)!
Remember when banks couldn't cross state lines? Here is a great quote: "The day interstate branching proponents have hoped for—and opponents have dreaded—is about to dawn. After years of debate, Congress appears to be ready to pass legislation that paves the way for nationwide interstate branching in the United States beginning in 1997. This legislation could have far-reaching effects for the banking industry, as well as for U.S. consumers and businesses that depend on banks for their credit and depository needs. The removal of geographic restrictions on how and where a bank can operate is sure to change the structure of the U.S. banking industry—the number of banks, their size and the type of products they offer."
Ms. Neely of the Fed Reserve wrote this in the 90s- if only people had known how true her words would be. It took just 10 years with their greed unchecked to nearly bring down the country. Thank you congress.
So to be not totally political in this post; I was impressed with the big, 4 panel ML speakers. The sound and sound stage were fantastic. I heard them once several decades ago.
Please back to the topic.ML panels usally start to faid some after 10 years.You do not hear it because it happens so slowly.This all depends on the conditions ML or in.Dusty 'Humid all play a part.ML does supply nice covers for them.And they shoud be used.If you got a cat for sure.The price of replacement depends on the model.Now the newer ML panels are said to be a alot better and last much longer.Time will tell.
The markup itself might turn off the potential buyers from the sales anyway. I was looking for an older pair myself, this pretty much tipped the scale.
Depends on the model you have,ML has made many speakers with many different panels.To many to list.But the average price would be about $2k to $8K now.
How long does a esl panel last as long as the user does not overdrive them;I have soundlab m2's and my panels operate perfectly;when a esl panel starts going bad what will occur?
Glad I sold my Aerius-i. I loved those speakers but one had a weak panel and ML forces you to buy the pair. A few years ago the pair cost me $500 so I can't imagine what they are now. I also understand they want the panels to be matched, but that should be your choice as the owner. I only needed one, so they should not force you to buy a pair.
J_stereo, do you think an owner would then disclose that he was selling an unmatched pair of speaker panels? Would it matter to the resale market? I certainly don't know if it can be heard, I'm just curious. I agree that it should be up to the owner to decide, but he may not want to disclose this fact when he gets around to selling them.
Peterayer - I agree with what you are saying and I guess I didn't think of it in terms of re-sale. When I sold the speakers I gave the old set of panels tot he new owner. My issue is (assuming the speakers are staying with the same owner) you should not be forced to buy both panels if one sounds OK yet. Especially if a set of panels is $1,000. That is $500 extra they are forcing you to spend. If I had cone speakers and a woofer/tweeter/midrange went bad, I could buy only the part I need.
I like ML's, but with this mark up I recommend Magnepan. Both are good, but Magnepan was always better for the $ IMO. Specially with ML's panel hike. Magnepan dont need to beplugged into a outlet, and the new foil wire won't come loose from the mylar like older Magnepans before current ones.
Magnepan are a bit brighter, and don't play as loud....but the do give that MLspacious sound, and IMO they are probably more refined. The MLs woofers never fit the panels IMO. It got better, but I prefer a all panel 1.7 with a sub. Nothing from ML can touch the 1.7 for 2k IMO.
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