Wait...you had damages to some CJ gear also!? Brother, this has to go down as the absolute worst of worst-case scenarios I've ever heard of! I'm feelin' yr pain but I'm curious, if CJ's kept you waiting for close to 2 months, how come this thread's only about the speaker manufacturer? |
When Fedex mangled one of my Tympanis (forklift through the box), they paid not only for the repair but for the cost of shipping. I don't know if that would include a new shipping crate, but it can't hurt to ask.
Not the first time I've had trouble with speaker shipments, years ago UPS trashed an AR-11 I sold to someone. |
I spent some time at the repair department when I visited the Magnepan factory a few months back. Just to answer a few questions, it's a separate department, not part of the regular production line although it's on the factory floor and interfaces with it. It's a very specialized, customized operation that lavishes a great amount of loving care on even their older speakers. They'll actually build obsolete drivers from scratch if necessary, as I learned when I mentioned the damage to my Tympani.
The downside of this is that the repair department is highly dependent on the skilled person who runs it. When I was there, they had a backlog because she had been out for five weeks with a broken leg. The other guys at the factory tried to keep up but things slowed down to a crawl. She had just gotten back and she was working on crutches! They'd brought back a former repair department employee to serve temporarily as her hands in an attempt to clean up the backlog.
I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the current problem, but I thought I'd pass it on because it indicates both their dedication to customer service, and some of the problems that can occur in a small company like this (though large by high end standards) -- if one highly skilled person is out, there may be no one with the knowledge needed to replace them.
To address a point someone else made, it may also be impractical to rapidly accommodate increased demand. The entire factory operation involves a surprising amount of skilled labor. If there's a surge in demand it can take a while to train new people up, not to mention that you can't just hire people if the surge is going to be temporary, e.g., there's been a new product introduction. Some audio companies have gone bankrupt when they expanded rapidly to accommodate a surge in demand, from a good review, say, only to have demand fall off. I don't know what the case is at Magnepan, but I do know that the .7's have been selling like hotcakes. It's a welcome success for the company, but I can see that the sudden increase in demand would strain their production capacity.
Also, I'd say that the company does care very much about their customers and reputation, success notwithstanding. Cost control is a strong priority, which is why Maggies are so blessedly inexpensive, but also why they don't have things like 3-way binding posts and wooden crates. Sadly, you can't have it both ways (I've been griping about those binding posts for years). Also, that the people I met at the factory and to whom I've spoken on the phone couldn't have been nicer. It's been years since I was at a trade show, so I don't know what the story is there, but the people I've dealt with over the years have always been great. |
Hey Etmerritt33,
I just noticed this post and I'll point out a few things that may help soothe things out a little. I visited the Magnepan factory while driving cross country recently and I can vouch that they do indeed, have VERY few actual workers. The lady who does the repairs had broken a foot and she was hobbling around in a walking boot. I bet that probably slowed down repairs as well.
Basically what they do, is they set up shop to produce 1 of their speakers at a time for awhile, and then switch to a different model. So for a few days it could be MMG's, then 20.7's, then 3.7's, then 1.7's, then 12's, then CCR's, etc... If your speakers happened to arrive after the 3.7's were just made, and repairs are last to get worked on... I imagine it would be quite a wait.
I recently purchased some 3.7's new that took about 6-7 or so weeks to arrive to the dealer I picked them up at. I have no idea where my order was placed in their line-up cycle.
Anyways, I think low staffing is one of the reasons we're all able to buy their speakers relatively cheap and still be made in America. Add that to them making models in batches and the repair lady with a bum foot... and it could take awhile.
I'm not saying change your mind on anything, but I can totally vouch for the company bending over backwards for me on more than one occasion when they didn't have to. They've been one of my favorite companies to do business with. Sorry you had a bad experience, but it doesn't sound typical with all the raving I read all over the web about them. Hopefully things get sorted out for you!
-Bardo |
You are very likely correct. I just completed uploading all the documentation for the claim. We will see what happens. I was just thinking this isn't going to be automatic. |
Chazro...the OP said he sent the CJ back to the seller to let the seller deal with it and the seller refunded his money. He kept the Maggies, thus he is only dealing with the repair of the Maggies, not the CJ.
Apparently the OP is still in touch with the seller of the CJ and knows how the repairs are going? |
If the person that handles the repairs was unable to work then what would it take for someone there to just explain the situation. "Our person for repairs is out on medical leave. We'll do the best we can at getting to your problem." |
Yes, I had two pieces damaged at the same time and hence my reaction. I've been doing this since 1975 and this is the first time I have had any piece of equipment I have bought from Audiogon or the old Audio Mart in pre internet days.
The reason I have not mentioned the CJ ACT2 problem is that the seller did not install the 4 screws under the preamp that are supposed to protect it during shipping. So, I could not be honest and file a damage claim with FedEx. Also, the MG3.7 claim was my first with FedEx and I don't want to get a track record of making damage claims. I drove the CJ ACT2 to Northern Va. and hand delivered it to CJ. Think that was six weeks ago this coming Friday.
Since CJ was taking so long, I gave the seller an option to avoid negative feedback on Audiogon by just refunding the money and agreeing on no feedback on Audiogon relative to the transaction. He accepted and we undid the deal. He refunded everything including the Paypal fee. That damage is excepted to be minimal as nothing on the case was affected. It was only internal and CJ said that would be easy to repair.
The reason I have been so aggravated is that in early June I should have been able to set up and listen to the MG-3.7 bases system instead of dealing with these two messes.
Steve Winey has still not responded to the letter I sent him. I am pretty certain he should have it by now. This appears to confirm a comment above about Magnepan operating differently now than when Jim Winey was running the business. I had the pleasure of meeting Jim when he visited Audio Art in the late 70's.
My ads for the MG3.7's, Krell FPB-300, and MG1.7's are up on Audiogon. My bad luck will be someone's gain. |
As I said in one of my earlier posts-I place some of the blame for the damage squarely on Magnepan's shoulders. I mentioned this in my letter to Steve Winey that Magnepan should provide a wood crate for shipping for the 3.7's and 20.7's and increase the price accordingly. We paid through the nose at $ 371 to have the crate built. I can't imagine it would cost much more than $ 200 each if these were made on a routine basis?
Everything is great with Magnepan if you don't have a shipping damage problem. If you have to interact with them on a repair you are screwed based on the way they communicate. Why they do not at least set up hotmail or gmail accounts for those few employees makes no sense to me. They operate the business like it is 1950. Not surprising how fast things moved when I got an email address at Magnepan. Maybe some good will come out of this for future Magnepan customers. They have lost me for good. |
Thanks for correcting me Josh358. I actually thought about that while driving to work today and realized there is no way they repair speakers based on production, since they repair old speakers and there is no production line for those!
Etmerritt33, those boxes they ship the 3.7's in seem quite sufficient. I do know UPS quoted me only about $150 to ship them across country when I thought I had to. I also think Magnepan sells replacement boxes for their speakers for like $50 or something. I could be wrong there, but thought I read that somewhere they did. Maybe not. No need to crate them, but that's just my opinion. If UPS/Fedex damaged something then I might disagree too. Seems they'd have to really drop or smash the speakers to actually damage them. They must have done a doozy on yours! |
Emrritt,
As it turns out, Magnepan does have a system of crating -- but they've found that customers won't pay even a little bit more for it. It seems that they know that Magnepan and the freight company will deal with a problem if it occurs, so they have no incentive to pay more. Whereas we both bought our speakers used and so had to deal with the original seller and freight company.
Wendell Diller points out that they do in fact warn of just that on their web site:
"However, we have a word of caution. Magneplanars are very sturdy, but, they sometimes lose in a 'conflict' with a forklift driver or careless freight handler. If this happens with a new pair of speakers, Magnepan and your dealer will handle the hassle with the freight company. If the freight company wants to fight the claim, it isn't your problem.
"The safest way to buy a used Maggie is with a warranty from your nearest Magneplanar dealer. The next best option is to personally check out the speakers before buying. The worst option is a 'great deal' on the Internet. To our thinking, if it is such a great deal, why wouldn't someone locally snap it up?"
One other word about how they interact with customers. While I was visiting, they got a call from a guy in India. His distributor had given him foot screws of different lengths, and he couldn't figure out which to put where. In short order, engineering and the factory became involved, and the decision made to send him a new set of screws of the right length. Later, as I understand it, he spoke to Wendell. The amount of attention, both direct and behind the scenes, was extraordinary, and hardly cheap, given the cost of labor.
I don't know what happened in your case, and I don't know why they don't put their email addresses on the web, but I've spent enough time making futile attempts to contact various "customer be damned" companies and talking to people with impenetrable foreign accents after an hour on hold to appreciate this old-fashioned aspect of the way they do business, and the fact that they're so accessible -- or at least have been when I called them.
Mrschret, I'm not sure what the situation was, or why communication wasn't better. From what I've seen, when people have called and asked about time frames, they've been happy to oblige.
Based on my own experience as a customer over the years, good communication is vitally important -- it may be disappointing to learn that your repair will take two months, but I think most people will accept that. It's not hearing anything or being able to get through that drives you to distraction.
When I mentioned my broken Tympani to the beleaguered head of the repair department, she said, "Good God, don't send them now." :-) |
I'm anxious to hear what member "Mrschret" has to say after he visits Magnepan tomorrow. Maybe he can shed even more light on this topic? |
Emrritt,
As it turns out, Magnepan does have a system of crating -- but they've found that customers won't pay even a little bit more for it. It seems that they know that Magnepan and the freight company will deal with a problem if it occurs, so they have no incentive to pay more. Whereas we both bought our speakers used and so had to deal with the original seller and freight company.
Wendell Diller points out that they do in fact warn of just that on their web site:
"However, we have a word of caution. Magneplanars are very sturdy, but, they sometimes lose in a 'conflict' with a forklift driver or careless freight handler. If this happens with a new pair of speakers, Magnepan and your dealer will handle the hassle with the freight company. If the freight company wants to fight the claim, it isn't your problem.
"The safest way to buy a used Maggie is with a warranty from your nearest Magneplanar dealer. The next best option is to personally check out the speakers before buying. The worst option is a 'great deal' on the Internet. To our thinking, if it is such a great deal, why wouldn't someone locally snap it up?"
One other word about how they interact with customers. While I was visiting, they got a call from a guy in India. His distributor had given him foot screws of different lengths, and he couldn't figure out which to put where. In short order, engineering and the factory became involved, and the decision made to send him a new set of screws of the right length. Later, as I understand it, he spoke to Wendell. The amount of attention, both direct and behind the scenes, was extraordinary, and hardly cheap, given the cost of labor.
I don't know what happened in your case, and I don't know why they don't put their email addresses on the web, but I've spent enough time making futile attempts to contact various "customer be damned" companies and talking to people with impenetrable foreign accents after an hour on hold to appreciate this old-fashioned aspect of the way they do business, and the fact that they're so accessible -- or at least have been when I called them.
Mrschret, I'm not sure what the situation was, or why communication wasn't better. From what I've seen, when people have called and asked about time frames, they've been happy to oblige.
Based on my own experience as a customer over the years, good communication is vitally important -- it may be disappointing to learn that your repair will take two months, but I think most people will accept that. It's not hearing anything or being able to get through that drives you to distraction.
When I mentioned my broken Tympani to the beleaguered head of the repair department, she said, "Good God, don't send them now." :-) |
I can understand your frustration but do be aware that this is very much an exception to experiences most of us have had with Magnepan. Been a Maggie owner for 25+ years and when I sent my MGIIIas in for svc and they were damaged in shipping and Magnepan simply rebuilt and re-paneled both speakers on their dime.
Also it is a small company and please realize that some us us have waited 1-2 months to get our 3.7s new and the back order for my 20.7s in more like 4+ months so it is somewhat understandable this is not high on their priority list given new sales build back log.
Not saying it is right just understandable. BTW I have always found everyone I have talked to at Magnepan to be polite and helpful. I know that doesnt make it any better for you though! |
Very informative post by Josh. (Josh, btw, are those your refurbished Tympani that are for sale, to be delivered from Magnapan on completion?) |
I just saw a pair of 3.7s on Audiogon that are in MN for svc and wondering if this is the same pair and something was worked out? Sure looks that way.
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/magnepan-mg-3-7
If so perhaps perception might have changed considering the ad |
I'm confused...partial blame is directed towards Magnepan for not providing wooden crates for new products...yet the OP bought used...had them crated...and they STILL were damaged...how is that Magnepans fault....this shouldn't be a blame issue...things happen |
Hi Whart,
No, not my 1-D's, which sold earlier. Strange story, which I won't go into here since I don't want to hijack the thread.
I've been having an interesting conversation with the owner of the 1-D's that are up now. Well, interesting if you're a Tympani owner, anyway. :-) |
The actual event that resulted in damage to the speakers, whatever was spent on packing, and the drought that may not have had much impact on Minnesota are all irrelevant to this discussion...HOW Magnapan handled this situation is the only real issue, and the excuses and explanations to justify that are seriously lacking the professionalism that one expects and deserves from a first rate company. |
Wolf,
Yes, and while we have no reason to question the details supplied, they have been supplied by 1 side who has an emotional investment in the situation. Even though is has a question mark after "HORRIBLE " perhaps asking about others experiences or something similar would have been a better approach versus the one used, but hey that is just my preference in handling such situations and not to simply vent. Again my interpretation of "tone", yours and others view may differ from mine.
Magnepan may have indeed totally dropped the ball on this one and if so needs to evaluate how to not let it happen again.
So many of us have had nothing but positive experiences dealing with the company, perhaps we are viewing this as a rare exception although that does not help the original poster.
One last comment would be to say that in my mind the "fault" would be in Magnepan's communication, not the turn around time. Remember this was a used pair of Maggie's, damaged by someone else and we do not know the service back-up at he time and as others have said, when all is said a done, a small company.
As stated in a previous post of mine my 3.7s took longer to get new then the time to get his repaired and the 20.7 back log is even longer |
Eight weeks, they will try to ship them this week but are really busy. First and last pair of Magnepan speakers! |
The worst possible speakers to ship. |
