Thanks to everyone who responded (especially Brian). I bought the MG3.7's used from a very nice guy in New England. They were shipped via FedEx with ample insurance. I have a FedEx account and I arranged the shipping. When they arrived and we unpacked to set them up and quite literally the first thing my left hand touched was a completely loose aluminum trim rail on the top speaker. It appeared that the box was dropped on its side and on the corner and the other speaker appeared to not have been damaged.
I contacted Wendall and he told me that I definitely should send them both back to the factory to have them repaired and checked to make sure they are 100%. So, my wife and I had the custom wood crate made so we could lower the risk of additional damage going to Magnepan and to also lower the risk of damage during return shipping.
The cost to make this custom crate and to ship to Magnepan was close to $ 1K that we paid out of our pocket. This is the 5th week that the speakers have been in Magnepan's possession and they still have not even opened them for inspection. FedEx has inspected the damage and is ready to pay the claim but can't do so until Magnepan issues a repair estimate.
I am just so aggravated with Magnepan right now I can't stand it. As I said earlier I have talked to Wendall directly so he is aware of the problem I have.
What really blew my mind was when I called Shelia 3 weeks ago and she acted like she had never seen or heard of me before. This was after 4 or 5 previous calls to her.
This is week number 5 that Magnepan has had these speakers. I can not imagine it would take them more than an hour to assess the damage. We never unpacked the bottom speaker but there was no visual sign of damage.
I hope with this better explanation you can see why I am ticked. IMHO Magnepan should crate the 3.7's and 20.7's as they admitted to me that they experience the most shipping damage problems with the two larger models.
Here is a link to the pics of the damage if anyone is interested.
http://s89.photobucket.com/albums/k238/etmerritt33/FedEx%20Magnepan%20Shipping%20Damage/
Tom |
To Davide256's comment....This has nothing to do with any litigation and not sure where you got that notion from??
I filed a damage claim with FedEx the night we unpacked and discovered the damage. FedEx sent out their independent inspector and she filed a report and FedEx took responsibility for the damage and is willing to pay.
This has all been explained in detail to Magnepan. Shelia knew to expect a reuseable custom wood crate with a specific RA number painted on it.
So, here I am five weeks later with no idea on when I will get the estimate or more importantly when I will see the MG3.7's again.
Tom |
Mapman, this has already been done multiple times
Elizabeth, The speakers were purchased used. I thought that FedEx could ship them without damage to Richmond, Va. Once they arrived damaged, my wife and I decided that it was worth the cost of a custom wood crate (about $ 400 of the $ 1000 I mentioned) to avoid a situation where we might encounter additional damage shipping to Magnepan for repair and that would complicate the FedEx damage claim and then we thought the worst thing would be to have them repaired and damaged again on the way back to Richmond.
Paranoid? Probably so but we wanted to find the shortest critical path to be able to get the speakers back so we can listen to them.
This crate is reusable so it will also benefit when we sell these. That might be sooner rather than later if Magnepan does not do something soon. My patience is running out.
Tom |
Buconero117, I agree completely. Magnepan has just let itself evolve at its own pace but has not kept an eye to the times. They are set up so they can not deal with repairs in a timely manner but don't seem to recognize the problem with that. They could easily charge a little more for the speakers and add staff to deal with repairs. Just saying they are a small family owned business doesn't necessarily cut it in today's world.
I have a Merlin VSM-MXe based system which is extremely good. The only reason I was contemplating going back to Magnepan as my last system was due to my infatuation with Magnepan that started in 1975. I have only owned two pairs of conventional speakers in over 35 years of doing this. The Merlins and the Quadrature DSP-5a's. Lots of Magnepans, Soundlabs, Martin Logans and Acoustats in my past.
Magnepan told me on the phone that their primary shipping damage problems were with the 3.7's and 20.7's. The speakers have gotten progressive heavier over the years and IMHO the factory packing is not sufficient. I don't know why they just don't ship both the larger speakers in a reusable wood crate like Soundlabs? It could not cost that much more to have someone make them in Minn.
Never thought I would be this ticked with Magnepan.
To the person that asked why I just did not make the seller deal with this I don't have a good answer. I was just so stunned when we unpacked them to find the top speaker damaged that I was looking for the most expedient path to getting them 100% and really did not want to undo the deal. But, I knew after it registered that the box had been dropped and at least one speaker was damaged that I was looking at a long and aggravating process. It took a couple hours that night for it to sink in. In over 35 years of doing this I have never received damaged items until now. |
Magnepan just called. They inspected the damage and both speakers were damaged, not just the top one. The tweeters are ok but they will need to replace the aluminum trim rails on both, the wooden spacers, and the socks have to be replaced. They are going to get a return shipping estimate and add that in and send me a repair estimate today hopefully. This syncs with our theory about FedEx dropping the box on its edge.
The kicker is that I was told it would take 3-4 more weeks to do this simple repair because warranty claims go in front of shipping damage claims. The speakers were delivered to Magnepan on June 25th so despite what they claim this is the 5th week they have had them so it appears I am looking at a total (if I am lucky) of 8-9 weeks total from June 25th not including the time to ship back to Richmond which will likely be about a week.
So, I'll be lucky to see them back by the end of August and that will be 3 months since the time they were purchased during the last week of May. Some of the time was wait time on my end as I could not ship to Magnepan until the FedEx inspector came by and that was a couple weeks after I filed the claim.
More later as this unfolds. |
Honestly, this morning I felt like she knew or someone has said something to her because her tone made me feel that way. I could have been imagining it but that is what my gut was telling me.
I love the company and the products. Audio Art here in Richmond was the biggest ARC and Magnepan dealer in the U.S. when I became involved in 1975. My first pair of high end speakers was the MG 2's. This is the first time I have ever needed anything from them relative to service.
But, this current experience has left such a bad taste in my mouth that I am not even sure if I will unpack them and set them up when they get back. I know that would likely be stupid but I just don't like being in this situation and not being able to do much about it. The problem is that I have other equipment sales and purchases contingent on these speakers so everything is on hold at the moment. |
Brownsfan,
Thanks for your post. I've been so angry recently that I started researching speaker alternatives and as you say there aren't any good ones for anywhere near the price. I am wishing I had not sold the Soundlab M-2's we had.
What makes this worse is that I bought a Conrad Johnson preamp at the same time and that arrived damaged also and it has been sitting at Conrad Johnson (I drove to northern Va. and hand delivered it to CJ) for 5 weeks and not damage estimate either. The seller has refunded my money so I will also be in the market for another preamp. I also have a pair of MG-1.7's at home and if the CJ preamp had not been damaged I at least could have run the CJ preamp, the Krell FPB-300 amp, and the MG-1.7's while waiting for the MG3.7's to be fixed. But, that all got messed up too and we were out about $ 10K with nothing to show for it when we should have been enjoying the MG3.7's and the C.J. preamp with the Krell. The entire thing just got hosed up.
Tom |
Phasecorrect, You need to check you reasoning again. Doing me a favor? I am the damn customer period. It should not matter whether I bought them used or not. I am a Magnepan customer with a pair of damaged speakers. Doing me a favor? Are you kidding me? Tom |
The cost to ship back to Magnepan was about a grand. $ 400 of it was for the custom wood crate and the rest for ground shipping via Estes trucking with appropriate insurance. I did not want to risk additional damage on the trip to Minn that would further complicate my damage claim with FedEx.
My complaint and issue with Magnepan has nothing to do with the product or the cost. MY ISSUE IS WITH THE SERVICE which is very poor IMHO. I also maintain based on Magnepan's own comments about the 3 and 20 series speakers suffering the most damage issues that they should ship them in a wood crate like Soundlabs and just add to the price accordingly. That would eliminate a lot of this but these people seem to be stuck in the 1950's for some reason.
Also, I still have not received the repair estimate from Magnepan which I was promised to have emailed to me Tuesday afternoon. This completes the end of week 5.
I know it would be crazy to do but I am seriously considering flipping these when they do get back and not dealing with Magnepan again despite all the other positives they bring to the table. This is ridiculous from my perspective as a customer. At this point in my life I just don't have the patience for it. |
Markpao, Regardless if they are used or not I am now their customer and I have a problem. In most great businesses they do what is necessary to get it fixed for the customer. I am now a full 5 weeks in and have yet to even get the cost estimate. What do you think the chances are now that I would ever buy a new product from Magnepan??
I have to wait 5 weeks for an hour's worth of inspection? The company is just not staffed properly and has an archaic view of customer service. |
The way I see it it does not matter one way or the other if I bought these used or not. I am the customer in this situation and I have a problem. Top notch companies take care of customer's issues. Over a Magnepan speaker's life it is going to be owned by multiple people but only be sold new once. So, Magnepan needs to provide decent support to owners of these speakers new or used. Both the 1.7's and 3.7's were hot and the 3.7's had a waiting list. So, if someone decides for reasons entirely their own to sell a pair of 3.7's they can do so. This pair had the aluminum trim rails, better fuses, Cardas jumpers, and Mye stands at a good price so I jumped on them. I am now Magnepan's customer so I expect it to not take 5 weeks to get an estimate to repair shipping damage. Still ridiculous IMHO. |
Mrschret, I'm pretty certain you are on target. This is really a very weird situation because I've been a Magnepan fan since 1975 but this is the first time I have ever needed anything from Magnepan relative to service.
I care not what the product or service is if I really get a strong sense of no reasonable consideration for the customer I'm gone. And Rayooo, yes, I'm nuts and a hot head at times but 5 weeks and no damage estimate just doesn't work for me. |
Just to be fair and accurate today actually marks the end of the 5th week of Magnepan having the 3.7's and me not having an estimate.
I get the message, guys! Over and out. Tom |
Still no estimate from Magnepan. I will call them again today. Today marks the beginning of week 6.
Almost sorry I started this thread but I could care less if any and all from Magnepan read the thread and all the various comments. It should never have gotten to this point. I had talked to Shelia in the repair department at least 4 times BEFORE the speakers arrived. She had all the info and issued me an RA number. Then, when I called her after no one at Magnepan could find my speakers after Estes confired someone at Magnepan signed for them on June 25th. (only ones in the shop in a wood crate I strongly suspect) and she acted like she had never heard of me before when I asked her to check for me that week???
I have made my decision and I am not trying to influence anyone on what they do. I am selling both pairs of Magnepans (1.7's and 3.7's) and I am done with Magnepan period. My 37 year affection for Magnepan is over with after this treatment. I will not even unpack the 3.7's and set them up if I ever see them again. This is just a ridiculous situation and I do not need the aggravation.
On the whole issue of buying used I have done that for many years. In the beginning with Audio Art in Richmond being a large Magnepan/ARC dealer it made it easy to buy used and then begin trading up to the larger models which for me was the Tympani's. In this case I paid close to a new price just due to the backlog of MG3.7 orders and nothing else. Also, there is no Magnepan dealer in Richmond any longer as Audio Art is under new ownership and is primarily an Avalon Acoustics dealer now. The practice of buying used allows upward mobility for people wanting to upgrade. So, it should work well for everyone. |
Audioconnection, That Wadia 16 was repaired by Steve Huntley and resold to a gentleman in Rome, Italy. DHL paid for the repair and Steve did it promptly. I refunded the original buyer 100%. Not sure what the point was that you were trying to make?
Since 1975 when I started doing this with Audiomart magazine, I have had the Wadia 16 damage and an Audio Aero Capitole CDP which had the drive damaged by UPS. They paid that claim and Rich at Sig Sound in NY did that repair. I took care of it all and got the repaired unit back the buyer in Canada in a prompt manner.
That is all the damage issues I have had in all this time until the CJ ACT2 and MG3.7 at this same time two months ago. I have undone the CJ ACT2 deal and the seller has refunded my money in full. Still no estimate on that repair but it is no longer my problem. The preamp has been sitting at CJ for weeks and this is week 6.
So, all that being said I think the high end bottom feeders like me and many others support the top end of the high end market by allowing others to move up the audio food chain buy taking new equipment and flipping it after they go off to the next new thing. Obviously, not a perfect scenario every time but it should work to the collective good most of the time.
Unless one has a ton of discretionary funds where you can pay list and sell at a huge loss months later, buying used is the way to go. I have found that the vast majority of audiophiles take care of equipment so as to maximize the value if they want to make a change and sell or trade in the equipment for something different later. |
I called Magnepan yesterday and left a message for Shelia trying to make sure they had my correct email address after having been given it multiple times. Still no response from Magnepan. Think I am going to take the earlier suggestion and write Steve Winey a letter today about this situation. I would just like to get reimbursed by FedEx, get the speakers repaired, and get them back so I can sell them. |
Whart,
Excellent thought and suggestion! Thanks!
Just finished the letter and I did try to just state the chronology and facts. Had to go back to end of May emails and come forward to establish an accurate timeline.
I am about to mail the letter.
Thanks again for your very good suggestion!!
Tom |
Whart,
Also, went back and revised my letter to Steve Winey as per your advice and to avoid return shipping to Richmond.
I also removed a paragraph that was a little strong but true.
I mailed the letter yesterday so I'm guessing they will see it on Friday.
I suspect Magnepan is going to dog me about this regardless and I am sure Magnepan could care less if they are selling everything they can make at this point. No company could be this incompetent so I can only assume it is deliberate. I still have yet to receive an email from Magnepan as promised last week with the estimate to repair the damage.
Tom |
Mr m, I agree completely. After I had the DHL with the Wadia incident a few years ago I did some research on shipping damage with audio equipment. As you would guess there are horror stories relative to all carriers some of which would just make you go nuts. I concluded that you have risk with all carriers and the only difference can be how they deal with damage claims. Unfortunately, not a lot of difference there either that I know of.
I have tried to hedge by going to extremes with packing and carefully documenting the entire process with pics, hoping for the best but prepared for the worst. In my somewhat limited experience if you do have damages and present meaningful documentation it becomes more difficult for the carrier to not pay the claim. That can also change.
I have learned from this experience to never ship speakers via regular FedEx or UPS but to use a freight company along with wood crates. Not bullet proof but much better odds IMHO.
I suspect Magnepan would argue to the contrary but I like the way Soundlabs packs their speakers in wooden crates. I had a pair of Soundlab M-2s several years ago and they are much better protected than the Magnepans. IMHO, the Magnepan 3.7 and 20.7 may have reached a point where a reusable wood shipping crate is justified. Hard to believe it would add that much to the price if all 3.7 and 20.7 speakers went out with them and Magnepan could sub the job out to a local company. The materials could not be that expensive.
I just wish Magnepan had responded better in my situation. If they had quickly provided an estimate after the speakers arrived at the factory and repaired the damage in 2-3 weeks or so I would feel entirely differently at this point. Just a big disconnect relative to expectations between the manufacturer and the customer. |
Update. No response yet from Steve Winey relative to my letter. Sheila called and said she emailed the estimate last week. Nothing in my junk folder and it sounded like she had the correct email address from her voicemail message. I got an email address for Magnepan and sent her an email a few minutes ago. Hopefully I will have something to submit to FedEx to complete my damage claim in a day or two. Still no ETA on the repair.
Mrschret, feel free to ask Wendall anything you like about this situation. I already made my choice to blow off Magnepan for good. I just need to know when they will have the 3.7's repaired so I can list them on Audiogon. |
Magnepan emailed the repair estimate this morning. It is only $ 381 if you can believe it! Waiting for them to send it on Magnepan stationary via scan so I can upload to FedEx website later today.
Now, hoping that FedEx will be willing to pay the entire cost of shipping and the custom crate along with the $ 381. If that can happen we can get out of this deal and forget the aggravations of the last few weeks. It appears FedEx was willing to pay at least $ 2500 and the total for this will be just a little over $ 1300 with the full bill from Craters and Freighters.
I have already undone the Conrad Johnson deal. Interestingly enough, to the best of my knowledge, CJ still has not examined damage to the ACT2. This is either the 6th or 7th week they have had the preamp. |
You are very likely correct. I just completed uploading all the documentation for the claim. We will see what happens. I was just thinking this isn't going to be automatic. |
Yes, I had two pieces damaged at the same time and hence my reaction. I've been doing this since 1975 and this is the first time I have had any piece of equipment I have bought from Audiogon or the old Audio Mart in pre internet days.
The reason I have not mentioned the CJ ACT2 problem is that the seller did not install the 4 screws under the preamp that are supposed to protect it during shipping. So, I could not be honest and file a damage claim with FedEx. Also, the MG3.7 claim was my first with FedEx and I don't want to get a track record of making damage claims. I drove the CJ ACT2 to Northern Va. and hand delivered it to CJ. Think that was six weeks ago this coming Friday.
Since CJ was taking so long, I gave the seller an option to avoid negative feedback on Audiogon by just refunding the money and agreeing on no feedback on Audiogon relative to the transaction. He accepted and we undid the deal. He refunded everything including the Paypal fee. That damage is excepted to be minimal as nothing on the case was affected. It was only internal and CJ said that would be easy to repair.
The reason I have been so aggravated is that in early June I should have been able to set up and listen to the MG-3.7 bases system instead of dealing with these two messes.
Steve Winey has still not responded to the letter I sent him. I am pretty certain he should have it by now. This appears to confirm a comment above about Magnepan operating differently now than when Jim Winey was running the business. I had the pleasure of meeting Jim when he visited Audio Art in the late 70's.
My ads for the MG3.7's, Krell FPB-300, and MG1.7's are up on Audiogon. My bad luck will be someone's gain. |
As I said in one of my earlier posts-I place some of the blame for the damage squarely on Magnepan's shoulders. I mentioned this in my letter to Steve Winey that Magnepan should provide a wood crate for shipping for the 3.7's and 20.7's and increase the price accordingly. We paid through the nose at $ 371 to have the crate built. I can't imagine it would cost much more than $ 200 each if these were made on a routine basis?
Everything is great with Magnepan if you don't have a shipping damage problem. If you have to interact with them on a repair you are screwed based on the way they communicate. Why they do not at least set up hotmail or gmail accounts for those few employees makes no sense to me. They operate the business like it is 1950. Not surprising how fast things moved when I got an email address at Magnepan. Maybe some good will come out of this for future Magnepan customers. They have lost me for good. |
