Hello Jim,
I had always been under the impression that Tannoy, like Audio Note, Spendor and Harbeth, designs its cabinets to resonate, somewhat like instruments. Now that you ask for a reference, however, I can not find any material that supports that assumption.
I did a search and the Tannoy literature clearly states that the design goal is for a rigid, inert cabinet construction, so I am mistaken. It seemed to me that this was a major difference in the designs of Magico and Tannoy. I am wrong.
I did find this review in Stereophile of the Tannoy Churchill speaker which describes a resonating cabinet as contributing to a beautifully natural sound on vocals and some other instruments, particularly in the midrange: http://www.stereophile.com/content/tannoy-churchill-loudspeaker-page-3
But I don't think this is a design goal on Tannoy's part. Clearly, I am mistaken and apologize for posting a faulty presumption on my part. |
Peterayer we forgive you. |
>> Tannoy literature clearly states that the design goal is for a rigid, inert cabinet construction..
Well,it does not look like they have managed to achieve this goal... |
'
Thanks, peterayre!
Nice of you to apologize, but none is needed.
The Canterburys have tone to spare, so thinking it could be from the cabinet had me wondering. :)
Best,
Jim
' |
I'm still waiting for Kiddmann to explain his comment (on 10/22) about why he thinks Magico has "higher distortion". Peterayer, Don't hold your breath. |
'
"Well, it does not look like they have managed to achieve this goal..."
Usermanual, may I ask what is the basis for your statement?
Thanks!
Best,
Jim Smith
' |
Listen to them and then, if you are still not sure, go read JA review of the Churchill... |
I would go the magic/hegel route - RMAF show that just passed - hegel was touted to have the best in show sound with Magico S1 driven by their new humble 75wpc Hegel H80 (the sound was seductively silky smooth). |
I've owned the Magico S5's and now have a pair of Tannoy Canterbury GR's in the same spot. It's no contest. Tannoy's are much more musical, and their excellent efficiency and easy load allow for near endless amplifier choices - including some wonderful 300b or 845/211 SET options. |
Mbovaird,
Well you put your money where your mouth is and had both speakers in your system. There's no better test than that. Congratulations! The opportunity to use low power amplifiers is a major bonus, you'll have much enjoyment. It reveals a whole new world of musical beauty and exploration.
Charles, |
Charles - I agree with you. The Magico S5's are not bad speakers and they do a lot of things well - you know, all the audiophile sound things. But in my room, they just didn't do it for me. The Canterbury GR's do. I'm running (for the moment) a little pair of Cary 300b monos with some sweet tubes. Sounds glorious. I'm eyeing a Line Magnetic 219ia integrated for the Canterbury's.
To be honest, I didn't even consider Tannoy's until I heard a friends big Westminister GR's and another friends Canterbury GR's. I just kept saying, "one more record and then I'll leave." :) |
The components that keep you engaged and compel you to listen for longer periods are the ones to own. Emotional involvement is crucial for prolonged enjoyment. I suspect that the LM 219i SET 845 amplifier would be wonderful with your Tannoys. I'm with you regarding the Magico, no need to bash it. As you said, it does audiophile/hifi well but just lacks emotion, natrualness and musical realism for me . Certainly other listeners find them ideal for their taste and that's fine. I'm glad you've found what works best for you.
Charles, |
Arent you the guy from audio shark who keeps changing speakers like I change socks? So you discover the high-efficacy, SET world? It has been around for some time you know, and yes, it has its charm and can work well as an office system. You are listening to a setup that has about 50% less resolution then the S5 and you call it more musical?
What is next Bose 901? I give you 3 months with these, keep us posted (-; |
Usermanual,if anything he's getting more true music resolution and realism with his SET and Tannoys than his prior Magico S5, he had both in his home and would know.If you're satisfied with your Magico speakers why worry concerning his conclusions anyway? You're both currently happy. |
Like I said, I give him 3 months, maybe less
|
Mbovaird, are you using the supertweeters with your Tannoys? I ask this because I've heard they make a noticeable difference. As for amps, you might also consider Class A solid state. Anyway, congrats. They are one Hell of a speaker. Happy listening! |
07-28-14: Usermanual
Arent you the guy from audio shark who keeps changing speakers like I change socks? So you discover the high-efficacy, SET world? It has been around for some time you know, and yes, it has its charm and can work well as an office system. You are listening to a setup that has about 50% less resolution then the S5 and you call it more musical?
What is next Bose 901? I give you 3 months with these, keep us posted (-; Yes he is. This guy flips gear not in the pursuit of finding the right synergy for his taste and room, but in the pursuit of more publicity for his website. That's all it is. That's why be buys new gear every few months, tells the audiophile world it is the greatest thing since sliced bread then suddenly has a change of heart & flips his gear. Remember the endless sermons over his beloved Alexia's? Now they're so great they're on the 'Gon for sale. So take his comments on the S5's with a *big* grain of salt... |
Dave - no, I have not tried the super tweeters with the Tannoy's. I hope to one day soon. I've heard, depending on the room and associated gear/cables, it can be quite good.
Usermanual/Melbguy1 - I like to change gear and try different things in my room. Isn't that the best way to really know if something works or not? Since I don't have any dealers within 200 miles of me, I have to buy, try and move on. It sure isn't fun moving hundreds of pounds of gear, most times losing money, dealing with shipping hassles, etc. But this is the only way to get real - in home - experience. And remember, this is a hobby. Relax. |
By the way, this thread is over a year old. Did the OP actually decide on something? |
Isn't that the best way to really know if something works or not? No it is not the best way. One does not have to jump from the roof to know it will be a painful landing. Regardless, it is perfectly fine to do what you are doing, but once you report on it in public, and make judgements, we reserved the right to tell you what we think. I am SUPER relax, BTW. |
Mbovaird, ok cool. Yes, that's what I've heard as well. And from what I've heard it doesn't make the sound bright or shrill. So yeah, it could be a great investment. |
07-29-14: mbovaird
Usermanual/Melbguy1 - I like to change gear and try different things in my room. Isn't that the best way to really know if something works or not? Since I don't have any dealers within 200 miles of me, I have to buy, try and move on. It sure isn't fun moving hundreds of pounds of gear, most times losing money, dealing with shipping hassles, etc. But this is the only way to get real - in home - experience. And remember, this is a hobby. Relax. That's very smooth. Were you once a door to door Insurance salesman? Don't waste your time on us...we've heard this traveling snake oil show of your turn up on on numerous audio forums. It's getting to be a yawn.. |
I agree that an open forum allows comments from all who desire to share their opinions, that's a good thing. Why get upset with someone who owned the Magico and found it disappointing? Obviously he finds the Tannoy a better speaker. Some agree with his viewpoint and others won't.Usermanual you seem to take it personal when someone doesn't care for Magico speakers. If they please you it shouldn't matter what other listeners report regarding their experience.
Charles, |
Charles, no argument about this being a free and open forum, that's why members like Usermanual and I are free to express our opinion, right? I only object to members who promote products for the express purpose of attracting more readers to their website. This guy then talks up his latest acquisition until interest wains, then flips his rhetoric around 180 degrees before dumping said product. I take if you're reasonably intelligent? This member has considerable form in the audiophile world. I appreciate genuine, considered and unbiased comments. I don't appreciate disingenuous comments from a member with obvious bias motivated by self interest. |
I don't see how Mbovaird did anything wrong here. It appears to me that the parties objecting to his input are the ones with a real agenda of their own. He never even brought up the other website which you claim he is trying to gain publicity for. The "objectors" were the ones who brought that up once his experience didn't agree with what they may prefer or own. Makes one wonder who really has other motives here, doesn't it? I welcome Mbovaird's input here or elsewhere, and find his comments to be of more value than many other posters here. |
Never underestimate the power of denial.. |
Bill that is the same sense I detect as well, motives questioned because he didn't like the Magico. Seems a bit childish in reality.Why so sensitive regarding the Magico? |
Charles, no sensitivity regarding Magico, but I for one get frustrated by members like you who act like self-appointed Defense Barristers without taking the time to know the facts. That would take a lot of time and objectivity, two commodities you clearly lack. |
07-30-14: Melbguy1
Charles, no sensitivity regarding Magico, but I for one get frustrated by members like you who act like self-appointed Defense Barristers without taking the time to know the facts. That would take a lot of time and objectivity, two commodities you clearly lack. I have no dog in this, um, debate. However, at the risk of seeming like a self-appointed defense barrister I will state that IMO, "knowing" Charles not personally but through his many posts over the years, the quoted allegation is simply absurd. And I have no doubt that most long-time A'gon regulars will agree with me. Also, I would offer the suggestion that when it comes to acting in defense of a given speaker model, ad hominem comments that are vitriolic in tone will tend to come across less than persuasively to those who may be seeking the truth of the matter. Certainly in comparison to the many opinions that were stated in a classy manner earlier in the thread. Regards, -- Al |
Dave - spoke to my dealer today and he doesn't think the super tweeter is beneficial with the new GR series and its advances. He said the super tweeter was beneficial with the SE series.
Not sure....would still like to try them though.
Mike |
I'v skimmed through all these posts again, and still don't know what the OP finally decided on. Did I miss something?
Dan |
Al, In a nutshell I'm suggesting Mbovaird's recent comments about his ill-fated S5's are disingenuous based on his long history of flipping gear to promote his own interests, and that Charles blind defense of his comments is at best uninformed. Instead of considering that I might have a considered opinion, members here instead went on the attack suggesting I have an ulterior motive and am speaking out of ignorance. Anyway, this thread has become a Tannoy love-in and has long-since ceased being a balanced discussion. There are other forums which offer objective and constructive discussion on the S5's. This is not one of them. |
Al,
Thanks and I much appreciate your very kind comments.
Mel, we're all just guys sharing opinions on a topic of common interest.I'm just as entitled to a viewpoint as you(no more, no less). Tannoy lovefest? Because some listeners here prefer them to the Magico? come on! Anyway I've said what I have to say, there's nothing useful to be gained by continuing to go on and on about this.Would it be a Magico "lovefest" if more comments here happened to agree with you? I don't understand the anger on a thread simply discussing speakers.
Take Care,
Charles, |
Interesting Charles that you claim "I'm just as entitled to a viewpoint as you" then proceed to attempt to discredit me by rubbishing my comments. It sais a lot that other participants in this thread support your comments. |
Gentlemen, gentlemen, please...no need to bicker. The speakers both suck, they just happen to suck in very different ways. I hope that this serves to calm these turbulent waters. |
07-28-14: Usermanual
Like I said, I give him 3 months, maybe less
+ 1 |
Usermanual and Melbguy,
I do not know what Mike (Mbovaird) did/said to light up a fuse under your collective a...s. Mike has admitted several times that he likes to swap gear. He just opined that he preferred the sound of Tannoy to Magico. One can always fall in love with a piece of gear and then find something that suits them better. Why is that so hard for you to digest? He did not make any derogatory comments about you. I do not see him advertizing his audio blog on this forum. You are the ones bringing it into the conversation. |
Mbovaird, did you happen to listen to your Magico S5, Wilson Alexia and Tannoy Canterbury in the same room/system and do a proper direct comparison, or are your opinions based on a more general feeling having heard them in different settings?
Are you confident that the Magico and Wilsons were fully broken it before you decided to sell them? And finally, could you describe how the three speakers sounded different and what it was about the Tannoy that you ended up preferring over the other two? Thanks. |
Lets say bad things about MAGICO the best speaker in many ways if you don't like MAGICO KEEP ON TRUCKIN!!!!!! |
Hi Peter - excellent questions. I had ~1000 hours on the S5's. I would turn them on in the morning and let them play until I went to bed. This happened for over two months straight. After that, I had another three months of on/off listening. I tried different electronics with them (D'Agostino monos, VAC, McIntosh, etc.) and I really thought they sounded best with the VAC phi200's. That being said, I thought Vitus with Magico was incredible when I demoed it. I just couldn't bring myself to buy those big babies.
I always felt that yes, to be honest, the S5's could have used another few thousand hours. I've heard a number of 5000 hours to be full broken in. But I don't think they would have had a chameleon like change....but I could be wrong.
The Alexia's I tried in the same room briefly and they sounded great - but they have been in my main dedicated listening room most of the time. They are well broken in. I would estimate 1500+ hours.
The Alexia's were the hardest speaker to part with. They did so many things right. I spent over $15,000 on room treatments (ASC bass traps and Vicoustic panels) and still could not rid the 73hz bass hump in my room that they produced. I even tried a Spatial Black hole (cool little device). It helped, but not completely. You know that when you get that "boooooom, boooooom" that just completely overpowers the room at a certain frequency, it can drive you bonkers. I tried different amps, cables, etc. and it was always there.
I've always wondered why more speaker manufacturers don't have room tuning/adjustability on their speakers like Revel has. But I digress....
I never had this problem with the Alexia's in my Family room (where the S5's were and Tannoy's reside now). I regret not trying the S5's in my main listening room....I bet with the sealed enclosure, I wouldn't have had those bass issues....but we won't know. From an audiophile standpoint, the S5's did nothing wrong. They just didn't grab me emotionally. I'm not going to bash them....they are great speakers and to be honest, a crazy good value vs a lot of what else is out there. I think paired with some nice tube amps or Class A topology amps (Vitus, Pass) - the S1/S3/S5's can be the ticket for many.
It's easy to say "try this speaker in this room and that speaker in the other room", but hauling speakers up and down two flights of stairs is just not my idea of fun....so yes, I would love to try every speaker in every room....but sometimes, its just not an option.
I had no intention of buying Tannoy's. I had heard the Kingdom Royals several times at RMAF/CES and thought they were awful to be frank. But I went to visit friends in Toronto a while back and one has the West Ministers GR's and the other has the Canterbury GR's. I listened to them both extensively over a period of two weeks during my visit and couldn't believe how different they were from the Kingdom Royals. I found them very musically engaging and effortless. I would classify their sound as "sweet". I've also spoken to Jim Smith several times about his Canterbury's and he seems to really like them.
Now that I have the Canterbury GR's in my family room (my wife loves the looks), I have been playing with different amps (Mc 275 monos, Mc275 stereo, VAC phi200 stereo, Cary 300b SE monos). I really like a single Mc275.....but honestly, everything sounds good so far. Right now, I have a single VAC phi200 driving them and they are sounding great. I'm eyeing a Line Magnetic 219ia, but will need to hire a football team to lift it!
So yes, I love to experiment with gear. I've been an audiophile since the 70's when yes, I actually had a quadrophonic setup. I like to try different gear and gain different experiences. I could write a book on my experiences with Klipsch, B&W, Magnepan, Sonus Faber, Revel, WIlson, Magico and countless others.
I have a friend who trades cars every 3-6 months....I think he's nuts.....he thinks I'm nuts....I get it. For some, being an audiophile is about the journey and not the destination. Those that don't swap gear will NEVER EVER understand those who do. |
07-31-14: Apdoc2004
Usermanual and Melbguy,
I do not know what Mike (Mbovaird) did/said to light up a fuse under your collective a...s. This is a case of judging comments on face value vs a wide experiential viewpoint & genuine vs disingenuous. At the end of the day, people hear only what they want to hear.. |
Magico always sounds good when I hear them. Just so damn expensive!! Many competitors I hear for lower cost do as well. Can't deny the build quality though. |
"Those that don't swap gear will NEVER EVER understand those who do."
I'm one who doesn't understand...but I still really enjoyed your post and the several interesting points you made/addressed. |
Mike- interesting your MC275 sounds best. I would expect this as a more neutral tube amp (KT88-based) would work best with your new speakers which are quite warm or "sweet" as you say.
I've heard Tannoy/Cary several times and found it so syrupy and euphonic that I couldn't stay in the room (the 55k Tannoys with Cary 805s). Several people told me this was best in show. Maybe, most coloured in show :)
I've also heard Magicos and Spectral/Soulution and wanted to run from the room. Again, people told me this was the best of show.
There are many ways to skin a cat and it all comes down to preference. Folks need to relax a little. |
Keith - I think you are correct. The MC275 V6 has great drive and dynamics. That being said, I dipped way way deep into my stock of tubes and brought out some NOS GoldLion KT88's and 1940's RCA 6SN7's - put them in the VAC phi200 and it took that amp to a whole new level.
I would say the VAC phi200 is now a notch above the Mc275 right now. I can't tell you just how bad the stock tubes are in that amp.
In the 275 Mk6, I'm using SEC 6550C's in V8, V9, V10, V11 and 18ECC''s in V1 & V7, CV4024's in V2 & V6 and E83CC's in V3 & V5. In V4, because its not used when using XLR outputs, I'm using some throwaway 12AX7 tube.
That being said, I am eyeing the Line Magnetic 219ia to try - the beast! |
I contributed earlier in the thread, but am scratching my head about some of the latest comments.
Look, these are two entirely different speakers. I prefer the Tannoy - but that means Jack Shite.
They are both quite expensive and if spending that amount of your hard earned dosh you owe it to yourself to hear both and make up your own mind.
Basically that's all there is to it. The only purpose of threads like this is to figure out if its worth the time and effort to do that.
IMHO, for these two speakers, it is.
Happy listening.
Thanks
Bill |
Good to see you on the forum Bill. Even though we differ in our preference in this instance, I know where you're coming from & respect your viewpoint.
Putting the above aside for a moment, the S5's are the most transparent and resolving of speakers, and are very coherent. As such, they will faithfully reproduce what is fed to them without editorializing. To me, although the S5's are a bit more laid back in presentation & warm sounding than the Q3's, and are easier to place than the Alexia's for example, they still require patience and careful setup to extract their full potential. I have heard Magico speakers sound haunting with Vitus Signature Series & Siltech Royal Sig series cables, and lean and unmusical with the old Soulution amps (have heard the new series are better). Another factor previously discussed is run-in time which is long (atleast 1000hrs).
As one member eluded to above, you could walk into a Dealer's showroom and hear a not-yet-fully run in pair of S5's with something like Spectral, Boulder or Soulution and completely dismiss these speakers. Yet if you take the time to get it right (ie: built your system around the speakers and fully optimize your setup), the S5's are capable of stunning sound. |
.... the sound of the Magico S5 is salubrious, exquisite, stunning, glorious and dazzling and the sound of the Tannoy Westminster Royal SE is superlative, smashing, magnificent, superb and impeccable... |
Look, these are two entirely different speakers. I prefer the Tannoy - but that means Jack Shite It means Jack Shite because you have no empirical data to support why you prefer it. Why would anyone prefer a higher THD, trainwrack frq and power response, lack of extension, bloated bass loudspeakers to one that is the exact opposite? It will be very difficult to explain why would anyone prefer an inferior speaker, but that is hi-fi for you. |
'It means Jack Shite because you have no empirical data to support why you prefer it. Why would anyone prefer a higher THD, trainwrack frq and power response, lack of extension, bloated bass loudspeakers to one that is the exact opposite?
It will be very difficult to explain why would anyone prefer an inferior speaker, but that is hi-fi for you.'
Dear oh dear - its obvious you have a long way to go in your Hi Fi journey.
Here is the truth. The purpose of Hi Fi is to trick the listener into thinking this is real. That is an emotional response not accounted for by measurements. I have heard plenty of gear that measured ho hum that sounds glorious, as well as plenty of gear that measures impeccably but sounds - well ho hum. And conversely as well - plenty of gear that measures dubiously and sounds that way, and plenty that measure impeccably that sounds fantastic. No hard and fast rule here.
There is a guy in Sydney Australia, by the name of Steve Garland, that has what many people that have heard it say is the best system in Australia - it simply sounds so beguilingly real. Some people from the states who had heard everything under the sun were on a holiday and called in to hear it. They left shocked - it was better than anything they had heard state-side.
It has a Axiom 80 driver in a cabinet that acoustically is a joke - its as resonant as hell. It uses a hand built and tuned valve amp and DAC. Many many hours have been spent getting it to sound just right - and it was by ear - no measurements at all. It will likely measure terribly - but the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
Forget measurements - you hear music - not measurements.
BTW my speakers are the exact opposite - technically a tour de force - but that is another story. Some people actually prefer a system I know the uses the same speakers as mine to Steve's - and having heard that particular system many times I wish I could get mine to sound as good. But the guy installs systems for a living and has spent many hours getting it just right using his many years of experience.
Its all in how you react to what you hear. Check out the following review of exactly the same speaker to see what I mean:
http://www.stereomojo.com/LENEHAN%20ML1%20REFERENCE%20SPEAKER%20REVIEW/LenehandML1ReferenceSpeaker.htm
For one person - the best he has ever heard - and he is a speaker builder of many years experience - for another - ho hum - and he is a very well respected audio engineer. The speaker measures impeccably - yet we have two different reactions.
BTW they were my personal speakers that were reviewed and I obviously side with the speaker builder. But the other guys view is equally valid. There is only one way to know which camp you fall into - listen for yourself.
Just as an aside those speakers are quite famous here in Australia, with many like me liking them a lot. But it wasn't until that review was published quite a few people came out of the woodwork saying they sided with the Audio Engineer, but were intimidated by the loyal following it had and were afraid to say anything.
The moral is its VITALLY important to always use what you hear as the measure - not what others hear.
Thanks
Bill |
