I had previously purchased a separate dac but found the connectivity issues makes implementation of a dac complicated and ideally an integrated situation where dac and streamer combined works is worth pursuing, the X one is Superb by coming with an excellent dac. I have it connected to a line stage. Any chance to avoid rabbit holes is worth doing the misery of purchasing various dacs is incredibly annoying. |
Great thread with good information on the Lumin X1. I stumbled on here looking for any comparison in sound quality with the new P1. It is an old thread but the questions being asked here are current so I wanted to share some of my findings. Regarding Roon sound quality difference, the reasons in my setup came down to the following: Network path the Roon core follows Power supplies on the Roon core and path Roon core/server configuration and quality Any limitations on the above caused a difference with the sound I heard in comparing to the direct stream of the Lumin App. So, if you consider the sound of the Lumin App as rerference level (in your network and setup) then there is the potential for your Roon to sound as good at least. Was I able to get Roon there? Yes. But it was a real PITA. Reason being that each bullet that I mention above as the reason for the limitation is very loaded with multiple situational conditions that each one will have to sort out in their own way. Network streaming is no different than analog setup when it comes to attention to detail and clean power, cables, components. Add to that a need for understanding some networking and developing a feel for how it flows in your setup. All worth it in the end as my X1 setup rivals and even bests my vinyl setup. Eugene81 nailed it with his feedback. There is a tonal flavor from the X1 that is the limitation you will hit only after you have exhausted the other limitations that are removable. But the soundstage, resolution and ease of use is simply outstanding and cannot be easily done without spending a lot more. Hope this helps. |
I use an etherregen, as it facilitates the optical connection. Beyond that I am not sure what the hell it does. But I can't figure that out because I'd lose the optical connection ability if I remove it. Maybe I should go back to coaxial or RCA and avoid optical. But then wouldn't that introduce lots of noisiness from the outer world. I really like optical as it probably reduces noise. I got the X1 because of the dac and its ability to get along with the lumin. I hate the idea of dealing with all the various separate dacs out there. So many rabbit holes. And also wanted to avoid all the connectivity challenges and rabbit holes. It's a fine streamer dac. There are so many other places worthy of more attention in my system.
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I am using the X1 direct to my tube mono block amps. Awesome sounding, the LEEDH volume is excellent. Taking the separate Dac, preamp and all the associated cabling out also helped. I now have the X1 connected to an 8TB hard drive with all my music on it and stream other music from Qobuz. that is connected to a EtherRegen/After Dark with the fiber cable going to the Lumin. ozzy
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@eugene81, that was an EXCELLENT and well informed post! Thank you. :-) |
I don’t think DAC/streamer hardware is rapidly advancing unless it’s important to you to have the latest high res format, DSD430928 or whatever. Streamers are computers, using 40 year old ethernet. The processing demands of music streaming are practically zero, and software can be updated to support more services. In terms of sound quality, the "advancements" are marginal, if any. R-2R DACs are more popular now than they were 10 years ago. The vast majority of us are still using S/PDIF, toslink, AES, or USB 2.0 as digital interfaces. It took 30 years to get from CDs to Roon and people still swear CD transports sound better. Hi-fi follows widely adopted mass market technology and refines it, and mass market audio doesn’t demand technological advancements in sound quality, mostly portability, usability, and design. But as audiophiles, we don’t care much about most of these things, like wireless, as they don’t relate to, or improve, sound quality. Back to the topic at hand, I had an X1 and can say it absolutely competes at its price point. Compared to dCS Paganini + Network Bridge I had at the same time, it produced a notably larger, deeper soundstage with more inner detail, transparency and clarity, but also very liquid. I now have a Bartok, and tried the Mola Mola Tambaqui, and going by aural memory and the transitive property (compared the Paganini + NWB with all of these), the X1 bested those DACs in those areas as well. Ultimately, the issue I had with the X1 was tonality and timbre. Instruments and voices just sounded more natural and realistic through the dCS, and this is the most important characteristic to me. dCS had a broader color palette and better sense of texture, despite having less inner detail, and better microdynamics. The Sabre-yness of the X1 still came through at its core despite Lumin’s impressive efforts to refine it. It always felt like it was kind of coated with a sheen of liquidity. If I didn’t listen to so much acoustic music and stuck to rock, pop, electronica, hip-hop etc, I would still have the X1. |
Also using an X1 making use of the optical in from an EtherRegen. Had a T2 and there's an improvement as it should be. Cleaning up the ethernet may have been as much an improvement as anything. Hint hint.
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I’ve got a T2 (direct to my amps) and will likely upgrade to an X1 (or its successor) eventually. I don’t find the X1s limitations to be problematic. I stream exclusively. I need a streamer and a DAC. I don’t ever plan to go back to physical media (or go through the tedium of ripping all my old CDs) so I don’t need an external digital-in, source selection or separate boxes. The only thing that gives me pause is I think both DAC/Streamer tech is rapidly advancing, and will warrant replacement every 5 years or so. Doesn’t make much sense to me to upgrade too fast, there’ll be a better mousetrap every 3 years. Oh, and the T2 sounds fantastic. |
You question inspired me to post our den system :-). Absolutely love the X1, especially the value aspect. Auditioned against the dCS Bartok, Rossini and a 90K MSB stack. I actually preferred it over the dCS pieces, and found it almost equal to the heavily upgraded MSB at less than 1/5th the price. It does call for an optically isolated ethernet path, though, such as a GigaFOIL. I found the power supply great as-is and could not hear a difference between it and a Keces, though perhaps worth noting that the AC front end already has a Burmester 948. |
In terms of functionality, the X1 is an odd product. It integrates a streamer, a DAC ... and half a preamp (volume control, but few source selection options). To me, the new Lumin P1 makes more sense (just in terms of functionality/usability). For a few thousand dollars less, you get full preamp capabilities, an integrated power supply, and an included Roon-ready IR remote. It comes with dual mono ES9028PRO DAC chips instead of the more advanced ES9038PRO as in the X1. I wonder what impact this has on SQ compared to the X1. If listeners can't detect a significant SQ difference, then the X1's days may be numbered.
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@jumia The X1, from an authorized dealer only comes with the included PSU…I dont think its available without it? Stereo and phantom center HT is how I roll…Its a shared space. Currently, everything inputs into the Diablo 120 dac via toslink or USB. With the X1, the analog output will favor stereo listening (while still keeping USB if and when needed). HT will also remain toslink into the Diablo dac all controlled with the same remote. Btw, if you have a special (non-streaming) dac, the U1 is really stellar. |
Thanks very much. I have a chord tt2 and interested in the x1 dac. Good to hear a separate dac with an x1 via usb works well. I am planning to go thru preouts on a nad n m17 v2i when connecting the x1 to start out. Have a stereo preamp but hoping nad will work out in lieu of a stereo preamp, but may want to have tubes in the mix. Hate all the connectivity issues when switching between ht and stereo. can u get x1 without psu? Diablo sounds interesting. |
I just thought of an analogy that might better convey my impression of the LUMIN App vs Roon, which is removing speaker grills on speakers when listening. I don't know if all speakers benefit from doing so, but mine do. While keeping the grills on still provides a fine presentation, removing them provides more--clearer and just plain more. Note I am trying to find a way to express this without the hackneyed "veil lifting" description. Again, best of luck with your decision. |
I am not knowledgable what may be happening for me to perceive the LUMIN App music presentation to offer better SQ, but this opinion has shown up on other forums, for LUMIN, as well for other equipment such as WBF discussions on the very high end and expensive Taiko Extreme. I look at this similar to making a change of accessory or maybe even some equipment in your system--you note a difference and may find it preferrable to the prior configuration, but probably was not unhappy prior with the system sound. I find LUMIN App kind of like that offering me an alternative, kind of like a tweak without cost of a new accessory or piece. You make tradeoffs with music system changes. I am not a Roon basher. I really like the convenience and music information environment Roon offers. Due to this, I use Roon the majority of the time. I too have a Lifetime Roon license. The combination of Qobuz and Roon for me has been great for finding new music, artists and tracing music and history of the involved musicians. With Roon and Qobuz, you can add to your Library with Favorites. Those additons do show up on the LUMIN App as well. You can also browse and Discover music on Qobuz through the App. You can make your own playlists on the App that you save or you can browse and add selected albums and or songs to a playlist as well as choose when the additions will play in the order you are establishing. I have not used Spotify nor Tidal, so unable to comment on them. Good luck on your equipment quest. |
I have Roon and use Roon at times and LUMIN App at others. Roon has a very rich interface, which can supply considerable info on the album and artists. The LUMIN App sound quality, to me, is clearer and a bit more dynamic (turn off Roon option in App for best quality) while Roon is a bit softer and more rounded to me. I am more apt to listen to App for more critical listening, while using Roon more often when doing other things in the house as well as listening to music. I most often do use Roon vs App for its convenience and bridging of genres and expanded playing of artists' music in my library and available on Qobuz. LUMIN App is included with the LUMIN products at no additional charge, while Roon and Qobuz are fee based. I enjoy using all 3 of these. LUMIN is Roon Ready so obviously not a case of user not being able to use it with subscription or trial, but sound quality of LUMIN App is very enjoyable. I have not been doing upsampling on LUMIN App nor via Roon at this point, so cannot provide my opinion on possible differences in sound quality when doing so on those options. |
I have owned the D-2, A-1 and then upgraded to the X-1. I also own a U_1 mini. When I purchased the X-1 I sold my Emm Lab DAC and Laufer Teknik memory player. The X-1 is the best DAC under $19k period. I loved the Lumin App ( no need for Roon or anything else). The sound quality was dramatic between all of the Lumin series that I owned. The X-1 just plain elevated my music enjoyment. I disagree that it is not popular. At $14k it is not inexpensive. I recently sold my X-1. While I was selling mine there were 4 other X-1's on the market. They all sold. I had 5 offers on mine. Why did I sell it if I thought it was so great? I was intrigued by what an all tube system would sound like. I purchased a Lampizator Pacific which cost double of the X-1. While I am super happy with the Pacific, I then had to order a source for my music. Consequently, I had to fork out another chunk of money for a Lucas Audio LMDS music server. Further, I am going to have to sign up for Roon or some variant. All of this is in the one box X-1. I hate to say this but the sound of the X-1 is only slightly marginal compared to the Pacific. So take that as a major win for the X-1. Tidal and Qobuz are part of the software and they work great. I found Spotify to be two steps below in terms of sound quality. The other item is that you can hook up fiber optically which will improve the speed and dynamics of what you are listening to. If you get a chance to buy and X-1, you will be a happy camper! |
jumia, I do not agree with blanket statement that Lumin X1 is not liked by audiophiles, but do agree there are audiophiles that may priortize desire for additional and various inputs or other needs for their system. The X1 is an ethernet optimized combination streamer DAC. I am one of those people who like to have all kinds of options, but admit I may rarely, if ever, use all the options on the equipment I have, plus the expense of purchasing that way. The X1 is much more streamlined (no pun intended). You do have RJ45 ethernet input as well as fiber optic ethernet option (still rare, but a very nice option) for input. I pull music from Qobuz and from my local storage on my music server. The USB port on the X1, at least currrently, is for attaching USB music storage, not for a transport or other device. I have optical SPDIF connections on a variety of devices, but cannot recall when I last used such--been some years for sure. My priority was not for connecting a TV to my 2-channel DAC. I have a hometheater prepro with potential of 11 channels and various surround sound codecs and DACS that I use for that. You could explore exaSound, for one, if multichannel higher end DAC is of interest. The Mola Mola Tambaqui does have multiple digital inputs. I suggest you download the Tambaqui manual, if you have not yet done so, to read on these and what bandwidth specs for each type and DSD compatibility. I currently do not use a separate transport. Though I do enjoy reading on new CD and CD/SACD transports, I have not pursued one--still have a CD/SACD player not now in use. Many of these new units have streamers and DACS themselves. I do have other DACs with more I/O's, but 2 of them not currently in use--the X1 sounded better. They also require separate bridge or streamer for ethernet. This level of audio is a significant investment, and there are a great many fine choices out there. There are multiple professional reviews out there on the Lumin X1, with some being far more informative than some others. If you have not read this one, it is a worthwhile read, https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/lumin-x1-review-r860/?tab=comments#comments |
I am a happy X1 owner too, since last week I have the Lumin Amp as well. Previously I had the very fine Aesthetix Atlas Amp (Eclipse version) but I find the Lumin X1 - AMP combo even better. And I don’t think that the X1 should have more inputs just because it has an integrated DAC. Why an earth would anyone connect a TV via SPDIF to a 14k audiophile player? It was designed to play virtually any high resolution audio format from an USB source or stream it from a local network and internet, and it does that perfectly. |
I think a lot of audiophiles probably have to dismiss it because it doesn’t have digital inputs. As great as it sounds, I could never entertain owning it because it’s limited functionality. For 14K, or whatever the current going price is, it should have an optical and SPDIF input for those who have additional sources like TVs, Transports, etc. |
My Lumin X1 is an excellent sounding streamer DAC. I also appreciate the fine support Lumin offers in software updates and features, such as the LEEDH processing optional engagement, which is excellent and very convenient is one wishes to go direct to amp rather than use a preamp. Peter Lie of Lumin very actively participates on a number of forums and is an excellent resource for quick response on Lumin questions/issues as well as offering pertinent general audio advice. Regarding Tambaqui, I have not had the opportunity to listen to one, but from numerous reviews and postings, is considered an excellent piece as well. I, too, had been interested in how these compare, and I have only found a reference of both in a 6 Moons review, https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/lumin8/5/ |
