LSA Voyager GAN Amplifier

I replaced my 16 year-old defunct Parasound Halo A21 with the Voyager 350 and I LOVE it. I also own the amazing Wyred4Sound SX-1000R monoblocks. I A-B'd the W4S with the LSA, and the W4S are now in my home theater room. Both rooms win. According to my measurements, GFY. My credentials involve an MA in English Literature, fwiw..

Voyager 350 and I LOVE it.

Glad to hear you like it. Maybe it plays well with your speaker load or maybe you, like many others, like what it adds to the signal.

I was pointing out that you are here just make pollution. Not actually post anything of value.

Pot, meet kettle.

db

it's our old friend --- he is back. Audio2Design, AtDavid, DanNad, etc. etc. Another fake account

LSA Voyager GAN 350 its problem is power wire (AC DC)only 16 AWG, that design was too little to good sound, 14 AWG or above is better .

@kuribo 

As to your questions to me: they sound like intelligent questions, but I only have my ears to go by with the help of others comments regarding using 1-3 springs, instead of the full compliment

I only have my ears to go by with the help of others comments regarding using 1-3 springs, instead of the full compliment

You have no idea then whether the results are real or imagined. It's also possible that you are adding distortion which you may find pleasant. That's the issue with these tweaks based on pseudo science. Most people don't understand the underlying physics and either through confirmation bias or added distortion, they "believe" there is some real benefit.

LSA Voyager GAN 350 its problem is power wire (AC DC)only 16 AWG, that design was too little to good sound, 14 AWG or above is better .


 

That's the least of this amp's problems. The basic design is subpar.

Another fake account


 

Sorry, the only thing fake here are the unsubstantiated claims made by those exploiting the insecurities of others for profit.

What is so funny is that these "science is truth" people have no truth.   There are no double blind linstening tests that confirm one measurement is better than another.  We all know that in drag racing the fastest car gets the trophy.  There is no trophy in audio because none of these fake scientists have ever performed a test that has any meaning.  It is really a belief system based on wiggles on a scope and numbers....all signifying nothing.  It is a lie....plain and simple.  I would not go so far to state that these people are all lying for they are just converts of this religion and believe it to be the truth.  However, there is not one test that I have ever seen that correlates measurements with sound......none.....please show me one.  The guy at ASR believes that if a preamp/DAC/amp has a certain number then it is "transparent" and that an even better number is not needed.  He has no idea what he is talking about since he never listens to anything.  It is just his guess.  If you think your guess is truth......and you know its a guess.....then you are promoting lies......

So, you have two camps of belief.  Neither camp has any proof of anything.  What the measurement camp has is righteouness but they know deep in their hearts they have no science that proves that the numbers they worship are actually meaningfull.  The other camp has no proof that something they listen to is truly better than something else.....but, at least for each person, they have listened themselves and made up their mind which they "think" is best....based on direct experience.  Most audiophiles believe their ears......some only believe in wiggles and numbers.  Seems to me the more intelligent way to get great sound is to listen.  But, to each his own.  Which lie do you want to promote.  The lie of measurments or the lie of listening.  I prefer the lie of listening.  When I do listening tests with several people.....we all hear the same thing.....so at least its a group lie....he he.   So, which snake has the bestest oil?   The measurement snake or the listening snake?  You decide.

Have a blessed day you beautiful ones.....I hug you and squeeze your cheeks.and kiss you all with all my passion.......my sweet babies.

The famous and insightful 1980's audiophile Ronald Reagan got it right:  Trust but verify.   Verifying is the tricky part.     You can take an already good sounding system, a prime candidate for some "tweak" to try and make it even better,  do nothing, and it will still sound good, probably even different to the user each time it is listened to.  Can be many factors at play including changes in weather and physiology day to day.   Not to mention mindset.  No mind, no sound.   Some will have more concrete standards to verify than others, like a clear explanation of how something works that makes sense.  Then the value proposition comes into play.  Hardcore audiophiles like Mr. TBV:   R. Reagan might perceive great value with very minor changes, and be inclined to spend more money for it.  YMMV.  It is what it is.   Where things head south is when one merely trusts.  Lots of folks out there who want your money.  Gotta be careful.  Verify!

Who are you to stand in judgment of anything?

You seem to have an AX to grind with Wally and LSA.

@kuribo Looking at your history of posts all you do is blast amplifier builders for not building their Class D amps with Purfi (and I think the NAD stuff sound atrocious and I have owned them) and you have blasted every GaN amplifier with the exception of Leo and his Orchard so if Bruno Putzeys or Leo are not the developer it is garbage?

Like I said looking through all 134 of your posts you are a polluter and just sling mud.

You truly are a troll and bring nothing to the table.

So what if someone likes certain amps or designers?  It's an opinion.   Just accept it and move on.  No need to demonize.  Some people come across a bit stronger than others.   SO what?  Speak your mind and move on.  No need to squabble.   Does not look good for anyone.

I am always on the lookout for new developments relating to Class D amps.   GaN is one, but more to an amp than only that.    Need to hear them to properly assess.   Have not heard yet, but on the lookout.   THe Class D amps I have had for a number of years now still bang my drum so not as motivated to jump as I might be.   With new technology, waiting a bit for new advancements to take hold usually pays dividends in terms of value.

Has anyone seen a photo of the Peachtre GAN400 with the cover off?  The componentry is supposed to be quite similar to the Voyager, and I'd be really interested to compare pics of the insides of both, side by side.

I got a small sampling of a nad m33 with the latest Purifi technology the other week running a pair of smaller Totem monitors I am not specifically familiar with in a showroom. Did not have time to assess exactly what I was listening to (room correction in play?) but I came out thinking that was certainly different. Insufficient time and access to say if it was good, bad, or better than what I am used to . Definitely was different and very unique. Very midrange-y I’d say for whatever reason.  Not the Totem sound I have heard in general over the years.  I'm sure some things could have been done to tweak that setup, but an interesting listen nonetheless.

I have the Mini GaN 5 if you want I can pop the cover and post a pick. If you want @twoleftears. 

@jerryg123 I am also very interested in hearing and learning more about the miniGan. Seems like a winner for the asking price.  I'm expecting many more like it in the near future.  

I will say the New Bel Canto ref501s is the kit in my house. Open, detailed, articulate fast responsive bass. Huge step up from the old Bel Canto Ref500s.

That is the key @mapman at the asking price. I enjoy it but not as much as the 501, but is better than my Orchard MB. 

I run BEl Canto ref1000m amps in my setup for a number of years now. THey’ve been pretty much the bees knees of amplifiers for me to-date. Also a BC c5i which is lower power but newer Class D Icepower board I think. THe two sound much different. I attribute at least some of that to the ARC tube pre-amp I run with the ref1000ms versus C5i all digital integrated amp. Also c5i has SPL limits whereas ref1000ms never break a sweat. See system pics. I am a big Bel Canto fan for great sound in a compact package and always looking for what they come up with next.

GaN is one, but more to an amp than only that.    Need to hear them to properly assess.   Have not heard yet, but on the lookout.   THe Class D amps I have had for a number of years now still bang my drum so not as motivated to jump as I might be.   With new technology, waiting a bit for new advancements to take hold usually pays dividends in terms of value.

@mapman 

I have similar sentiments, however I've not actually had any Class D.  I've been watching recent developments for perhaps a year or more and am in waiting mode.  I'm in no hurry at all, but will "jump" when I assess things (could be a tricky exercise) as stabilizing.

Forums such as this are valuable in the information discovery process.

I enjoy the quote by Mr Reagan.  Some common sense to hang on to.

I would love to just stick something like a NAD m33 in my system and be done. I need to go back when I have more time and kick the tires on that one some more. Have heard mostly Icepower not Purifi to-date so not sure what to expect regarding differences in sound.

Who are you to stand in judgment of anything?

You seem to have an AX to grind with Wally and LSA.

I have just as much right to post an opinion as anyone else. I have no axe to grind with Wally and LSA, I am simply pointing out the less than optimal implementation and resultant load dependency of the amp's frequency response. Funny that someone should take a simple fact personally.

As I mentioned, this load dependency means the amp sounds different with different speakers, and even with the same speaker with a widely variable impedance. This can't be fixed with changing the topology of the amp's feedback circuitry. You can change speaker binding posts, add wood or springs under it, or sprinkle it with the tweakie scam of the day but that won't fix this deficiency. Maybe with some speakers, some will like the added distortion. To each his own.

I prefer and recommend an amplifier designed and tested to add as little to the signal as possible. That way you have a flat response to start with and can then toss your money to scammers who will add some distortion for you. Maybe you think it sounds better that way with a coating of kitty litter or what ever you are willing to believe will take it to 11 without anything other than confirmation bias or blind faith.

Where things head south is when one merely trusts.  Lots of folks out there who want your money.  Gotta be careful.  Verify!

Exactly! But the audio religion peddlers just want blind faith.

@kuribo So what do you recommend?

I prefer and recommend an amplifier designed and tested to add as little to the signal as possible

A bit off topic but I have a question about NAD m33 and Purifi.

Specs indicate same power into 4 ohms as 8 as I recall. Not sure what to make of that?  I could see where that was a factor in the results I heard with the small Totem monitors.

Whereas Icepower with a good power supply like BC ref1000m indicate power doubling mostly into 4 ohms along with significant current delivery capability. Both seem to indicate high damping.

THe ref1000m amps have been an ideal mate for my larger Ohm Walsh speakers in particular. I attribute that to some degree to the power doubling into 4 ohms, high damping and significant current delivery. Would not want to lose that.

There is no trophy in audio because none of these fake scientists have ever performed a test that has any meaning. It is really a belief system based on wiggles on a scope and numbers....all signifying nothing. It is a lie....plain and simple. I would not go so far to state that these people are all lying for they are just converts of this religion and believe it to be the truth. However, there is not one test that I have ever seen that correlates measurements with sound......none.....please show me one.

The Age of Enlightenment called. They want their Scientific Method back....

Yes, it’s a belief system based on science. It’s what’s gotten us out of caves and to the moon. What is your belief system based on? Your business model is "Trust me"- it’s a cash faith based religion which preaches results that can't be measured, verified, or explained by any rational means.

Engineering is indeed based on numbers. No one with any serious knowledge of science would deny the importance of math, physics, and rigorous testing/analysis to determine the performance of any engineered product, from bridges, airplanes, spacecraft, to audio. None of these audio products would exists without designers thoroughly familiar with the science behind their products. This should go without saying and I think any intelligent person understand this.

When someone claims numbers, science, engineering, etc., doesn’t matter, that it’s a scam, a religion, all faith, especially someone whose livelihood is dependent on denying anything that might give evidence of the veracity of his claims, it is an obvious and clear fraud.

There have been innumerable studies which verify the link between numbers and audible performance. Most people know this. You can measure the distortion from your tweaked out transistor radio and compare it to the distortion of a modern system and it’s rather obvious.

No, there is no accounting for personal taste. Some like distortion of a certain variety. That has been proven time and again. Others don’t. But I think everyone agrees that fraud, deceit, and making unsubstantiated claims to bilk people out of their money is bad.

I have a mini GaN amp as well,  Originally bought it for HT in the main system as the speakers are a difficult load (Thiel 3.7s).  Broke it in using a secondary system (B&W P6s) and it is not in another spare system (basically a guest bedroom) driving GR Research N3s (fed via a Marantz 5010 receiver).  I picked it up when it was $699.  I did a review of it here - https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=178455.msg1877185#msg1877185

What is so funny is that these "science is truth" people have no truth.   There are no double blind linstening tests that confirm one measurement is better than another.

These statements are false as are some of the apocryphal claims that followed them in the same post. Dr. Earl Geddes used double blind testing to show that off axis response and total room energy were extremely valuable for a speaker to be considered musical- and thus backing the measurements. Again, the important thing here is that if you cannot correlate the measurement with the apparent listening experience, you are measuring the wrong thing.

When someone claims numbers, science, engineering, etc., doesn’t matter, that it’s a scam, a religion, all faith, especially someone whose livelihood is dependent on denying anything that might give evidence of the veracity of his claims, it is an obvious and clear fraud.

+1 Exactly! Yet oddly, those same people will take a ride on an airplane, use electric lighting, the Internet and a host of other technologies all in a single day, and all that only exist entirely due to science and engineering.

Ralph,

You know very well we are talking about electronics here......of course, certain measurements of speakers are very important. 

For electronics.....preamps...amps....DACs.....and for all passive components,, tweaking and execution (like damping and shielding and grounding, etc.).....please show me the double blind listening test results.....come on.....do it.....you cannot....because it has never been done.  The only double blind tests that were ever done showed that people cannot hear anything in a double blind test........so show me the results of phase shift of an amp....or .001 versus .1 percent distortion.....or more second harmonic distortion and less upper harmonics or anything for that matter....It has never been done.  With electronics, passive components and execution.......there has never been a double blind test done......please show me....make me wrong.  I am sure you will find a doulble blind test that was inconclusive.......but actually shows something?.........come on.....no talk now......lets see the tests.

I never said that numbers and science and engineering do not matter........but that measured distortion numbers and signal to noise, etc.....have any correlation to sound?......show me.  show me the test results that prove it.

@jerryg123 Thanks, much appreciated, but no real need. When the Voyager and the GAN400 first hit the market, there was some scuttlebutt that the componentry inside the two units was essentially the same, but housed in very different cases. While having the same reservations as most about ASF, the photos they provided of the inside of the Voyager were interesting, and I was just curious whether (a) the scuttlebutt was true, and (b) there was a better layout inside the Peachtree.

Very interesting what you say about the new Bel Canto. Just curious, did you ever consider a Benchmark?

Hp 8903B Old but it does the job.

Clearly some ’tube guys’ do have analyzers on hand...

That old junker maxes out at -80dB THD+N. Useless for modern audio gear engineering. Especially for class D design work. No wonder you didn’t know Johnson noise existed. With my analyzer cheap dummy loads have a -92dB noise floor. But your analyzer wouldn’t even pick that up.

Come over to my place with a bottle of Whiskey Ric. I can show you how an audio analyzer can be used to make better sounding gear. Most industry standard measurements are useless for anything but marketing purposes though. And the tin ears over on ASR will be the first to mislead you on what to measure for. 

@twoleftears Yes sir I have and will probably at some point acquire the Benchmark unit it is an A/H unit. I keep looking for a used one in the $2K range.

You got Mike this time. Do you have something to say to me?

The only double blind tests that were ever done showed that people cannot hear anything in a double blind test........so show me the results of phase shift of an amp....or .001 versus .1 percent distortion

If people can't hear a 3 dB difference in distortion when a controlled test is performed, then either your "everything matters" mantra is wrong or your tweakies produce a greater than 3 dB increase in distortion. Seems people can only hear these claimed "improvements" if they pay you for them. More "trust me" as the money changes hands.

@mivmike Yep sure do. How are you? Was your Thanksgiving nice?

Yes not bad. But I live in Canada and that was back in October for me. 

Not actually post anything of value.
 

Is this an example below of what you meant when you posted the above?

@mivmike Yep sure do. How are you? Was your Thanksgiving nice?
 

Why no referencing every single one of your posts Jack-A.

Mike,

Come over to my house and bring your best open hearted love, open mind and bliss and I will show you how to do listening tests to various subtle things that improve the sound of equipment.  Don't need no alcohol to get high/low.......we are already infinite joy and bliss......live it now.....it is way more fun than being right.....way more fun....way more fun....way more fun....way more fun.....

Yes Jerry I read the thread and responded to the same concerns anyone with an ounce of knowledge would. And @amplifierdude did notify me of this thread, and the accusations made about me. But as far as I know he’s not banned and could post for himself at any time. So why would he make a new account?

Not sure and why would he be reaching out to you?

Think he would be more concerned about the accusations from you shuttering your business if he was a friend.

Really a big coincidence there.

But who cares you seem to be nicer as Mike than @amplifierdude

We will see.

Because when you know someone, and people are accusing you of being them, I don’t think it’s out of the ordinary to notify them of this. I’ll shoot him an email so he can respond as well. 

Oh looks like he’s not banned, but blocked from posting. How come you have the only inside baseball on this Jerry?