yyz said...”His 07x preamp was very silent. Not as silent as the LA4 but very close. When we put my 07x preamp in place of the dealers preamp it was obvious mine has some noise issues. I left my preamp at the dealer and they will get it resolved for me.”
yyz...Glad you finally took the the necessary step with your 07x and found out it does in fact have a problem not generally inherit with properly operating Coda gear...like I said all along...mine is dead silent as many others also have mentioned numerous times.
|
yyz,
You find the modded Voyager less grainy with more clarity than the stock V. Is the mod less warm/more neutral than stock? HF extension differences? Is the AHB2 still king of clarity and transparency, and maybe the gap has narrowed with the V mod? |
@aolmrd1241 It was guys like you who made me realize there was a problem, so thanks. Talking with CODA and even the dealer over the phone was a a little difficult for me to make my case. Going to the dealer in person was what I figured would resolve everything one way or the other. I was very happy to see the problem show up immediately on the dealer system.
I would not say the CODA 07x is dead silent. Not compared to the LA4, however, it is very quiet and even my one sounded great when the volume was high. I cannot wait to get a new one or a fix for my one. |
@viber I did find the modded Voyager slightly less grainy than the CODA #8 and the stock Voyager. The CODA #8 has more power and better bass and is also warmer. The modded Voyager is closer to the AHB2 but the Voyager can drive my Thiel CS3.7.
I am not sure if the modded Voyager has the same amount of clarity as the AHB2. I have not hooked up the AHB2’s yet, and I am rather busy with work. However, I think my memory tells me the AHB2 had a bit more clarity. I will try to put the AHB2 into the system soon.
I just checked the hiss level with my Voyager and the LA4. In this combo there is a tiny bit of hiss at similar levels as the dealers CODA 07x + CODA #16. I am a little surprised that the Voyager + LA4 has this bit of hiss. I had to put my ear to the speaker to hear it. With the AHB2 + LA4 you hear nothing.
BTW - I sent Jay an email offering up the Voyager for his shootout against your amp. |
My stock V has no graininess that I notice
|
My comment on graininess is in comparison to the modded Voyager.
Both the #8 and pre-modded Voyager (and likely the modded Voyager, still need to compare this) seem to be grainy to me compared to the AHB2. However, there are things the AHB2 cannot do that the Voyager and CODA #8 excel at (like power).
My CODA #8 in comparison to the CODA #16 is also not as clear.
Saying all of this, all the amps I have sound rather good and it is only when you really nitpick do you realize the slight differences. Well, except for the #16 (do not own) which is rather easy to hear the improvement. |
I have not appreciated the grain in the sound of my Voyager amp before mods. In fact, the amp, to my ears, has crystalline clarity. So the grainy description is hard to wrap my head around. |
Like I said I was comparing it to my AHB2. Everything else I own sounds a little more grainy than the AHB2. The difference in the Voyager mod vs stock is like the comparison I did yesterday with the CODA #8 and the CODA #16 (with respect to a grainy sound). When you hear the #16 you can tell what the #8 is adding. Even previously, I knew the #8 was adding something because I had compared it to my AHB2. The pre-modded Voyager was also not as clean sounding as the AHB2. I think the modded Voyager is now closer to the AHB2, though I have not compared. When you get the mod done on the Voyager it becomes clearer sounding. However, take what I have wrote today with some skepticism because I have decided to sell the Voyager today to buy the amp in this photo. The amp in the far right. Raal Ribbon Headphones - SRH1A | Page 302 | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org I have not heard this amp yet, will do so relatively soon. However, after speaking with the amp builder today, I was convinced to go with this tube amp. I have heard his older model, which was excellent, but this new one is supposed to be much better. The Voyager was going to be my headphone amp since it is not as good as the CODA #16 |
yyz,
Thanks. Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "grainy." The stock Voyager was warm compared to the AHB2. Since the modded V has more clarity than stock, is it also less warm than stock? When you have the time to A/B the modded V with the AHB2, see if you can note whether the warmth of the V is lessening, to approach the neutrality of the AHB2.
The modded V should be an interesting shootout with my Rouge. |
Maybe my audiophile terms are not correct. When I say grainy, you can consider the analogy of a window. With the CODA #8 and pre-modded Voyager I felt that the window was a little dirty, the view had some obstruction. With the AHB2 I think the window is crystal clean. I think the CODA #16 is also like that but I need more time with it at home to be certain it is at that level. The modded Voyager was more cleaner window than the pre-modded Voyager and CODA #8. It is not as good as the CODA #16 in a few ways, bass, clarity, and the size of the soundstage. The modded Voyager is comparable to the 2x more expensive CODA #8. Each as some positives over the other. The CODA #16 overall seems to be the best amp I would own (if I get the money). I can see that as my last amp, though the price is back breaking. Since the modded V has more clarity than stock, is it also less warm than stock?
No, do not think so. |
Thanks for your clarification. I do like your window analogy. I'll go further and ask how thick are the dirty films for the 3 best amps--AHB2, Coda #16, modded Voyager? 0-1 microns, 2-3, 5 respectively? More listening will tell. Is the Coda #16 warmer than AHB2?
I can see ricevs rolling his eyes and saying I am too analytical and I need to love more, LOL. |
Today, I am no longer relevant on this discussion. I sold the modded Voyager to a person in the East Coast and shipped it off. So he can chime in with new ears once he gets it next week.
I loved the modded Voyager but I want to get that RAAL - Requisite headphone amp for my SR1a headphones (maybe also buy the new SR2a headphones for bed). So getting the CODA #16 + RAAL amp = no place for the Voyager. The CODA #16 is also better than the modded Voyager.
I am now listening to the LA4 + CODA #8 + Thiel CS3.7 . It is s great combo. Similar to the modded Voyager + my damaged CODA 07x preamp. Every combination of Benchmark preamps and AHB2 amp with CODA 07x preamp and #8 amp have been excellent. Just perfect pairings.
Why talk microns when we can go down to the atomic level instead? I will get back to you on that.
The CODA #16 is definitely warmer than the AHB2 but it seemed to have the similar levels of clarity. The #16 is also very powerful and can likely drive any speaker out there. I will use the AHB2 + CODA 07x + Convolution filter with my RAAL SR1a until I get the funds for the new RAAL headphone amp. Notice that I am going to use the Convolution filter here and did not need it with the Voyager + RAAL SR1a. The Voyager was a bit warmer than the AHB2. |
"
I can see ricevs rolling his eyes and saying I am too analytical and I need to love more" I'll give him one more reason to roll his eyes:) I bought the amp. I should have it around the middle of next week (like Tweak1 I was using an EVS1200 but I intend to keep mine and move it to a secondary system - been busy taking pics to get rid of an extra amp and one other thing which I should have listed later today (I tend to rotate to secondary systems and then either sell what's left over or if it is more of a hassle to sell and not worth tons, I'll give it to someone). Since I am certified crazy, I have multiple secondary systems. This should keep me off the streets for at least a few months). |
yyz,
Amp transparency is like cleaning your metal kitchen utensils. No matter how well you clean them, they are not nearly as clear as mirrors. Your eyeglasses never are as clear as removing your glasses, assuming you have 20/20 vision and don't need glasses. You can sand wood with fine sandpaper, and it is reasonably smooth, but nothing like a child's skin. Micro or atomic level? I don't know.
Nothing else matters to me that can compensate for lack of SOTA clarity and transparency. |
Anyone in the Phoenix Area interested in hearing the LSA Voyager GaN350 amp or comparing it to their amp is welcome to PM me
for an audition. Amp is on loan so don't dally. |
chorus,
What are your reference amps, and how does the Voyager (stock?) compare? |
|
+ another one (for Chorus). My modded Voyager came late yesterday afternoon. My friend is coming over later and we'll first listent to the EVS1200 with a playlist we went through last week and then swap in the Voyager (my system is a pain to get to stuff). Seeing the Voyager in person, it really looks nice. If it is not too difficult, I may try to do a video and put it on YouTube. I did a video a bit after 7pm last night (with the EVS1200) of the first two minutes of one song and when I get it it I'll try repeating about the same time of day with the Voyager (used a decebt point and shoot camera and I'll see if it's not too much of a pain to get it on YouTube). |
Vibe,
Some clarifications:
The Voyager I have is stock.
A friend just sold his Pass Labs 30.8 Amp and bought the Voyager.
I use a Pass Labs INT25 which is fairly close to the same as the 30.8
so his move caught my attention.
My setup consists of:
-Late 80's Tannoy FSM monitors with XOs rebuilt by Danny Richie.
-Innuos Zen MK3 Streamer/burner/storage
-Audio Mirror Tubadour DAC with reclocker upgrade.
-Uptone Audio EtherRegen
On loan:
- Wyred for Sound Preamp-fully balanced as is the Voyager.
- XLR cables.
My room is mid-sized with good acoustic treatments.
I listen from 55-70db only.
Mostly Blues & Vocals.
My comparisons have not been against other $3,000 Class D amps
with say 200+ wpc. That would have been optimum for a legit comparison but no one I know near me owns one.
I have been told by the same friend who bought the Voyager that he
has listened to the Merrill Audio GaN Amps. He felt Merrill Amps did
have slightly better SQ than the LSA product.
However at $15k-$25k for the Merrill vs. $3k for the LSA let's hope so. He could afford either and he chose the Voyager.
My goal is simply to find out if I prefer the Voyager over my Pass INT25.
The other amp I compared it to is a Lejonklou Boazu INT-$4k.
The Voyager had not yet been fully burned in at that time so
I must discard that result.
I also own a Line Magnetic 218IA Integrated Amp, EL84,
7wpc, flea power tube amp. I prefer the Voyager's SQ
over than the Line Magnetic.
Again it is not a fair/even comparison.
The Voyager I have now has 350+ hours on it. In my experience it
needed 200+ to reach 95% of it optimum SQ. Like most of my gear
it produced perhaps 70% of it final SQ right out of the box.
I am still performing more comparisons so I am not ready to make
my final comments but can say:
-My senior sound engineer recording studio friend brought over his own symphony recording on CD. He is intimately familiar with it naturally. He liked the Voyager overall very well and felt it presented his work
very well.
My initial findings:
1. The Voyager has great presence.
2. The Voyager has strong Bass
3. The Voyager is simply fun to listen to.
4. It will be a hit with Rock & Roll lovers Bi-ampers, and JBL type
speaker owners should investigate it.
5. For Two Channel Home Theatre I would doubt it can be beat.
To say Underwood HiFi has hit a walk-off home run with this
new product is not an exaggeration.
Bring on your insensitive speakers with low ohm ratings.
Bring on your larger rooms.
Bring on your Bass loving listeners.
Bring on your home theater, 2 channel sound folks.
This Amp may make a lot music listeners into music lovers.
As with Ulysses the Voyager may be your siren's song!
|
Great report/review Chorus!!!
IMHO, they should have named it David for all the giants it slays
One of the many things that surprised me was the V plays louder in my large room than the twice as powerful EVS 1200
Depending on when your V was made, it might have factory upgrades, which they’ve been including for a while now
hth
|
cascadesphil,
That's generous of you to try to make videos comparing the modded Voyager to your EVS 1200. Meanwhile, you must have heard the two amps by now, and maybe you can make a preliminary report. Take your time before making the video. |
Has anyone had experience listening to both the Voyager 350 and the LTA Z10 or Z40?
thanks |
And these input buffers are usually $1 op amps.....not discrete stages.....this is true for AGD, Orchard, LSA, Peachtree, and Class D audio. We have to be careful here. as I'm hand assembling 5 Orchard Audio Ultra Amplifier modules in a a single chassis with two 57VDC/14A Toroidal Transformers along with a 3rd one for some reference voltages. The Chips on the board (including the "$1" Op-Amps) were installed for me by a Customer of Leo's who's workmanship is excellent. I'm hand placing/soldering all the Surface Mount R's & C's and some easy to solder IC's along with big Output Inductors. Anyway, since I am under NDA regarding the Bill of Materials (BOM), the $1 Op-Amps are actually $10 a pop x4 once each board ! Resistors and Capacitors are all 1% tolerances and I am adding Sonicaps at the output going towards the fully balanced (XLR) output connections in place of what Orchard normally recommends. Those who Shxt on Class D should have a proper listen to an Amplifier module that's designed form the ground up. The second iteration of last years BOSC (now StarKrimson) increases power output, uses a different GaN chip, and has been improved upon thank's to Leo's efforts and customer input (i.e. it's a Joe Poof....uh I man Proof) design. |
Those $10 each op amps are still standard op amps.....he just choose some particular ones for low noise that are more expensive......they are still a bunch of transistors running really low bias and have protection diodes that screw up the sound, etc. This is way different from using high bias discrete op amps or circuits........really great discrete op amps/circuits just plain sound mucho better than even the expensive chip op amps. Some of the other things you describe are not stock....you are building a one off thing. No one can buy what you are building. Sonicaps are good but not great. Way better caps out there.....including my modded Wima caps. There is always more......much more. We have only just begun.
Even though the Voyager/Peachtree has $1 op amps in it....it has been tweaked by many people for great sound over a couple of years......this module is really good. I am sure the StarKrimson modules are good too. No doubt we will have a shoot out between a stock Orchard and a stock or modded LSA/Peachtree some day. By the way, I can mod the Orchard amps, as well. |
Ricevs, Have you had an opportunity to listen to the Voyager?
Like to hear your take. |
cascadesphil,
On this weekend, maybe you will have a chance to tell us how the Voyager compares to the EVS 1200. |
I’d love to hear that comparison also, cascadesphil. |
"
cascadesphil, On this weekend, maybe you will have a c
hance to tell us how the Voyager compares to the EVS 1200." "
I’d love to hear that comparison also, cascadesphil" All my listening observations to date (I believe it is noted either in this thread or Jay's thread) are and will be posted here: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/stock-voyager-gan-amp-350-600-contrasted-with-my-evs1200-600-...The reasons are explained in the thread. I limited the comparisons to the two amps (and in that thread) are there (and if additional comments are posted they will be there as well) as there are individuals with no experience with a particular product, let alone in my room (have no idea why people do that - I live close enough to the launches at Cape Canaveral to hear and see them and I'm certainly not going to post stuff about the technical aspects of rocket propulsion and it seems to me that people without direct experience are merely hypothesing based on either no or limited experience with the products using some of the same technology). In process (today) of setting up the EVS1200 in a secondary system (today) sing Selah Audio SA2s. The EVS is a wonderful amp in its own right (and probably severe overkill where I'll be using it). I had a Mivera SE amp (which I sold a few weeks back) which used an IcePower stereo board (vs. the dual mono) and before that Class A/AB amps in the $9k retail price range. Any comments I put related to those things are based on both my personal experience with my system as well as quoting observations of friends who have experienced it in person as well. I don't make blanket statements about products of any kind which I have not heard in my system or other systems I'm familiar with as there is always system synergy as well as the personal tastes of others and I can't tell anyone else what they hear or don't hear or what they like. |
Just got my modded Voyager back. After a few hours of playing, it has clearly improved. Is it a new amplifier? No. It does though have more jump factor, presence, detail and clarity. Very nice incremental improvement for sure. |
@jaymark - did it lose it's warmth?
|
@kayakerf
It is certainly not warmer with the mod. It might be a touch less so but to my ears nothing substantive. |
@jaymark I was also thinking it was a little less warm after the mods. It could be the increased clarity that made it seem a little less warm. For me the mod was a nice improvement in the sound. |
@yyzsantabarbara
I think our ears are hearing similar things. U did a very nice mod that upgraded the Voyager sonics but did not massively change its sonic signature. Very well done.... |
LSA Review in - Not the best
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/lsa-voyager-gan-350-review-stereo-amplifier.28115/
|
ASR....Where people trash everything based solely on measurements without ever actually listening to the product itself. A Steve Huff Review has more integrity than anything Ive ever read on that forum. Where Bottom Feeders go to trash stuff they cant afford en masse to make themselves feel better.
|
Agreed! ASR reviews are of little use usually. However, in this particular ASR review the amp had real build quality issues. At least worth a read. One XLR output was not operating properly.
|
I wouldn't go by anything ASR says about anything. They reviewed the Class D Audio mini GaN amp and found "I had trouble getting the amplifier to function initially. It would simply not output anything." Then magically the amp worked later. The case of the mini GaN amp is magnetic and perhaps interfered with his initial try or it was the cheap connectors (I have one and noted the cheap connectors and magnetic case in a review elsewhere - in the system where I currently have it, which is basically a guest bedroom, I don't think the connectors are of as good quality as a Marantz 5010 receiver I have in the system as I couldn't get the high level connectors to a sub and speaker connectors working on one channel - was fine when I connected the sub to the receiver pre-outs).
It is hysterical that people even follow that site. I have a friend who bought the Apollon Audio IcePower amp in the narrow depth case they reviewed. ASR mentioned the case - "The top and rear plates are to blame. I have no idea about the metal used, but it is clearly not rigid/solid enough." Whatever he said about the case is BS. Yes it is not a Bryston or Modwright or the case one would find in an expensive amp. ASR seems to have issues that from personal experience just don't exist. It is either the worst luck in the world or an agenda of some sort.
|
ASR review: what a crock! 93 people didn’t like it at all. When the hell did 93 people get one to report negatively? Down right slander
|
Measurements tell a lot, It does not look good to me.
If you have a 4ohm load then it’s going to sound rolled off in the highs, compared to if you have an 8ohm load, then it'll sound hot in the highs
And then there’s the terrible designed balanced input gain and noise difference, rca was fine.
Thanks Andy
|
As I noted here - https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=179033.msg1882290#msg1882290 "There are all kinds of skill levels when using a tool of any kind. It is always better when the people with the most skills use the same tool. Pros always make it look easy and that's why in many cases even when I have tools for something I can do, I call a real pro." Knowing how something sounds requires listening. I've owned a bunch of amps (Class A/AB as well as Class D) and it's easy knowing what something really sounds like when one has lived with them long term and listened to the same music (and I've posted about my speakers many times and their impedance measurements, which also can be found as measured by real pros from major audio magazines and no need to post it again here in response to a worthless audio website - I also will not be waiting up on an upcoming holiday for a visit from Santa and don't need to re-post about that either - whatever one enjoys - go ahead and enjoy).
|
Andypandy,
Look closely at the graph.......these divisions are one half db. At 10K....where MAYBE you could hear a difference......at 8 ohms it is .2db high........at 4 ohms it is .3db down. You can hear that? Can anyone hear that?.....don't think so. Usually it takes a half a db for someone to notice a gain change. The Oppo volume control on the 205 player had one half db steps......and you could barely hear it.......and that was changineg the gain of all the music.....not just at 10K.
The particular amp that was reviewed was obviously not functioning properly. All of us who have listened to this amp via balanced inputs would have noticed the difference in gain (10 db.....and the distortion difference).
So, you have a broken amp and a test that tells nothing about how the amp sounds. .....and of course, ASR does no listening tests. If someone else sent him another Voyager amp it would not have that gain/distortion issue. The Voyager amps I have had here work perfectly....same gain on both channels....measured and listening wise. A seriously good sounding amplifier.
|
Longtime A'goner here, and I generally just lurk, but I feel compelled to defend the LSA 350 GaN amp. I've only had it for a few days and it is far from broken in, but it is a spectacular unit. I purchased it after considering a wide range of amps to replace my Parasound Halo A21 which bit the dust after 15 years of service. the GaN sent my otherwise awesome Wyred4Sound SX-1000R's to my HT room. ASR has its uses, but it is far from Holy Writ. They clearly received a faulty unit. I can only comment on mine, and it sounds superb.
|
Ric - it (your modded Voyager) sure does sound great. I've been swapping in RCAs (vs. the XLRs and as I've noted to you my main system is bigger pain vs. what most people deal with) for movies from the HT receiver and I might even go back to RCAs (I just re-calibrated the HT levels a couple of days back and watched a couple of movies - if I use the RCAs my Modwright preamp defaults to HT Bypass when off I won't have to swap a thing).
I own two of the products measured by ASR (Voyager and Class D Audio mini GaN amplifier) and my friend owns the Apollon Audio IcePower in the shallow depth case. So I have hands on experience with those products. Before the Voyager, I was using the EVS 1200 for music and the mini GaN for HT (I've since moved that amp to a system with GR Research N3 speakers to drive the left and right channel fed via a Marantz 5010 receiver - it is a guest bedroom system).
I can tell anyone that while I've not measured the mini GaN amp, it has plenty of power. It drove my Thiel 3.7s (not an easy load - just Google Thiel CS 3.7 impedance) in a large room with ease. In fact, I one point I had a Bryston 14BSST (which is rated at 900W into 4 ohms) and it (the mini GaN drove them better for HT (did not try it for music in the main system but did in a secondary system (B&W P6s) vs. the Bryston. As a side note, the 14BSST I had was the 15 amp version (I got that version as I did not have a 20 amp circuit in the old house) vs. the 20 amp 14BSST (which they made for low impedance speakers). When Brystom went to the squared and cubed series, they just made 15 amp versions of those amps (as with the change in circuitry they must have found it drove speakers the former version had diffuculty with).
|
Ric when an amp changes it’s rolloff to peaking up like because of load difference, there’s more than just FR involved, it’s a large distortion devatition as well which is not very good, as stated
Quote:
"Lots of money is left on the table here in many areas from frequency response load dependency to high amount of distortion."
Thanks Andy
|
Sorry, you are acting as if they know anything about sound......they don't. The small deviations due to filter implementation cannot be heard. As to distortion.....the high distortion was noted on one channel because it was not properly working. As far as the distortion figures in general.....they are not as low as some because they use less feedback. THEY did this on purpose. You must listen.....to know what sounds best. This module was tweaked by a group of serious audiophiles........to sound great.....not to be the best measuring amp in the world (the only thing ASR wants).
Comments from people who have not listened to something are just that....comments. They have no truth. Truth in audio is what you hear. Did you listen to the amp? How does it sound? That is what I want to know.....and I do know what is sounds like....because I heard it.
Quoting anything from ASR is like quoting someone about space travel when all they have done is drive the the store. They no nothing about sound. They only know how to use a measurement tool.....very sad.
|
Sorry, you are acting as if they know anything about sound......they don't. The small deviations due to filter implementation cannot be heard.
Sorry but you have it wrong, it's not about filter variation, it's about load dependancy distortion. Thanks Andy
|
The output filter and the feedback system around it form the ability to see the load.....its a system.....load dependancy is because of the filter and the feedback. Yes, it would be nice if it looked better.......but does it make the sound bad? No. And what do you mean "distortion"?.....What distortion are you hearing because of the minor frequency rise or fall? And even what distortion do you measure because of the minor rise or fall?
|
You need to understand that the switching noise filter/s gives you the fr vaiations. Where the load dependancey distortions here are comming from the amps output stage, at 4ohms 5khz 10khz 15khz have fast rising distortion after only 10watts!!! .
Thanks Andy
|
Andy...Why dont you list all your gear in your profile? I am sure we will all be in AWE of your near perfect measuring components. Waiting for you to tell us that the Dac in an OPPO 205 is as good as the ones found in TOTL Esoteric/DCS/MSB like the rest of the penny pinching audiophiles on ASR do.
|
Sorry but you were the one that jumped on timing3435 for presenting the bench tests link on this threads subject amp. Why don’t you/we stay on topic? Thanks Andy
|
