Looking for the Honda S2000 of turntables

Have you considered an entry level clearaudio, like the Clearaudio Concept?

213cobra- A very well written, thoughtful and informative response. Good stuff! Thanks.

What are the qualities of a Honda S2000? It's a balanced sports car leveraging mainstream technologies, well-machined and built for relative simplicity and reliability. No aspect of its operation is intimidating so it can be driven by anyone but it has sufficient engineering and intrinsic performance to warrant elevated driving skills. It's light yet strong, with very high torsional rigidity for an open car and the suspension sophistication to take advantage of the best tire technologies. It's also a holistic design, very well optimized in its balance of dynamic behaviors from the factory, making it pretty much a turnkey sporting car that also happens to be affordable for its performance, and economical to operate.

Unfortunately, not everyone fits in it, but that's another matter.

There are three turntable options on today's new-purchase market that qualify, with or without the $2000 limit for table, arm, cart and phono stage: Technics, Rega (and all its imitators using Rega or Rega-inspired tonearms) and Clearaudio.

I don't own any of them, nor have I ever.

First, Technics. Most people have never heard an SL12XX in a quality hi-fi, so it is often maligned for its resemblance to the many abominable mass-produced direct drive turntables that saturated the market at the time of its birth. Dismissing it for reasons of association is a mistake. I'll say this about direct drive: My early high-end audio indoctrination over 35 years ago included extreme bias in favor of belt-drive turntables built to a high standard. I have Linn, VPI, Pink Triangle, Mission, SOTA, Transcriptors, B&O in my past, along with plenty of experience with the boutique jewelry turntables of the past 15 years. One turntable has lived in parallel with all of those in my systems for 30 years -- the Luxman PD-444 and 441. The PD4XX are direct drive, executed to a very high standard in simple form. It's also a holistic design. No belt-drive turntable has elbowed it aside in my systems, on music merits, in three decades.

The SL-12XX is well executed to a price, but that price is far lower than any other company could market that specific turntable for today. It is a holistic design, built for speed stability, low noise, good resonance control, good isolation of the groove/sylus interface and consistency along with long-term reliability. It's designed to perform well and sound good in real-world systems, at a price anyone interested can afford. The Technics' tonearm is fine; not stellar but fine. It affords a range of tuning via changes in headshells. As a medium mass tonearm it matches up to a broad latitude of available cartridges. Well set-up with proper cartridge, an owner can get enviable sound that won't change. It will stay in adjustment, keep on turning, pretty much behave the same way in two decades as the day you first get it working. As KAB demonstrates, the basic design is responsive to hot-rodding. Well, have at it. But if you just put a set of Aurios Media Bearings under it, that improvement alone will overwhelm any futzing you do with rewiring the tonearm, fluid damping, tonearm replacement, and all the other tweaky nonsense that defeats its simplicity in the first place. The SL-12XX sounds vigorous and alive. Music played from it has energy and drive.

Next, Rega. Let's face it. In a different era of well-capitalized, R&D driven companies operating in a robust hifi market, the Rega P1, P2, P3, P5 and all its imitators, would be considered pathetic hacks. P7 and P9 you start getting into something. Rega turntables are a paradox. Outside of the P9, nothing about them is very good, but they are nevertheless holistic designs that in toto sound better than they should. So in that sense any Rega that fits your budget is S2000-like. Plus if you add their phono cartridges and the way they work with Rega's proprietary 3-point mount, there's almost no futzing for dialing them in.

As material objects, Rega turntables are disappointments for the money. They are almost embarrassing to own, short of the P9. But properly set up, they produce music. Oh, they're indifferent to delivering spot-on speed but a Rega turntable is toneful and smooth. The hifi term "PRaT" seems to have been invented by Rega loyalists to describe something Rega turntables actually don't have, as a distraction to confuse understanding of music reproduction, but no matter. There's a lightness to music spooling out a Rega turntables that is an underlying consistency many people prefer and enjoy. It comes at the cost of tone density, and gravity, however. Rega tonearms have an averageness about them that is less overcast as you go up the line, until the excellent RB1000 reveals the true potential of the design. But again, they offer wide latitude for cartridge compatibility, are easy to set-up and the sonic compromises at the lower prices are predictable, consistent and manageable.

The many aftermarket upgrades to Rega turntables (except the P9) reflect the sorry compromises we have to accept in finished products at moderate prices in turntables circa 2010. Change the bearing, the sub-platter, the plinth, the platter, the tonearm wiring, the motor, the feet....aye, aye, aye. None of the elements are particularly good, but they are balanced in their mediocrity to deliver a synergistic result. I'll say the Rega turntables, outside of the P9, are more Miata than S2000, but the Miata is a balanced lesser-performance, fun car people tend to live with and be satisfied by as-delivered, too.

Next, Clearaudio Concept. I'll argue this is the most S2000-like turntable in the OP's price range. Add an Aurum Classic cartridge and a Nano phono stage and you're at two bills, done. It's a holistic design, as well thought out systemically as the Technics, but belt-drive and with a Schroeder-emulating tonearm. Pick your cart and everything comes set-up from the factory. Take it out of the box, follow a few simple instructions, plug in and drive. I haven't heard a Concept but some people who have think it's better than a VPI Classic. What I can say is that the Concept is an S2000 contender in turntables, on holistic concept and execution and if it sounds competitive, then it's likely your answer.

But I have to say this about the OP's bias against used turntables: What's more S2000-like than my two Luxman PD444s that have required no service in over 30 years, along with the stable and excellent tonearms I've put on them? Both have two tonearms. But let's go to basics. The last PD444 I saw sell was mint and sold for $800. A Rega RB301 or something like a vintage Victor US7045 could go on it for $400. There's a used Jasmine LP2.0SE on Audiogon right now for $600. And almost every week there's a low-hours Denon DL103 here for $200. $2000 spent that way steamrolls any "S2000 equivalent" you can buy new.

Phil

Understood.....Just curious as to where a properly setup P7 falls in the food chain of sub 2k TTs.

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1279157656

Above is a 1 yr old P7 w/o cart.

Does that meet the requirements? When the OP auditioned a P3, that didn't make the cut. Is the P7 a leap over the P3?

Shrevie - Unfortunately I have no experience with the Marantz 'table or the Clearaudios it is derived from. Based on your original post, and positive reviews I've read, I thought it would be a convenient option. Note that, except for the phono cartridge, Music Direct has a good return option if you're unhappy. Myself, well, I am not a turntable flipper. If you look in my System link, you'll see I run a fully stock Thorens TD-166MkII, which I bought new in 1984 (a big purchase for a guy right out of college - roughly a month's rent). I thought then that turntables were going the way of the Dodo. HA! But, the Thorens still sounds really good to me, and exhibits no nastyness (hum, speed issues, rumble, etc.), so I am not ready to fix what ain't broke. I know there is better out there, but with limited funds for hifi, I am staying put for a while.

I sure wouldn't quibble with those suggestions. The OP specified a new purchase which is why I steered him toward Technics. Personally, I always prefer to let someone else absorb the initial depreciation punch.

I've read this entire string and it has opened my eyes, as well. I expect to be in the analog market, albeit at a slightly higher price point, in the not-too distant future, and the dialogue has been valuable.

I'm sure that the turntable experts may quibble (or worse) with this suggestion, but there is a used VPI Scout on the 'Gon for $1150 right now. Couple that with a Grado wood cartridge and Grado PH-1 phono stage, and you're right at two bills. (There is also a nice HP-19 Mk 3 package for about the same money.) I think these combos might approach what the OP is looking for -- a punch well above their weight class.

Happy listening.

O.K. Sorry. I thought you were recommending that we pull the plug on this stimulating pissing contest about who sold the most turntables to which demographic at what point in history.

Shrevie: "I find the reaction by the poster who was shocked that I had heard such things about DD pretty disingenuous. Do we not read the same magazines? Have you ever seen Technics listed as a recommended component, best buy, etc.? I haven't."

We do read the same magazines. But your original quote dismissed the entire genre of direct-drive, not the Technics. Here's what you wrote:

"I have read nothing but bad things about direct drive tables: rumble, resonance from the motor under the platter."

The Rockport Sirius was a direct drive was in the Stereophile class A+ recommended component for years. The Monaco Grand Prix was also in recommended component and in fact component of the year in HiFi+, sister magazine of TAS. The Goldmund Studio was one of the most coveted turntable in the 80's. The reason there aren't many direct-drive available is because they are too damn expensive to make!

As for the Technics not having recommendation from those magazines is because there was never a formal review. No review, naturally no recommendation. It's just that simple. If you look online there are formal reviews in many respectable sites. Here's at least one positive review:

http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/technics_sl1200_2_e.html

It's really silly that I even need to use magazines to justify my point as I usually don't even care for the reviews in those magazines. Trust your own ears.

If an audiophile goes into a dealer hears a bad belt-drive turntable in audition, he or she probably would ask for a different belt-drive turntable (and probably that's all they have) and most likely not cross their mind about change drive system, right? If they hear a bad direct-drive or, let's say, a bad Technics, they would immediately point the finger at direct drive as a bad drive system without further investigation. The bad reps direct-drive turntables got from the 70's and 80's from the press has been fully recovered. It's a shame.

I am not a Technics fanboy at all. I am fan of turntables, period.

_____

You're outta luck, Shrevie. Tvad sees no reason to continue this discussion.

Your experience and interest in equipment and recording extends beyond that of the typical musician. It's safe to say that if this were not true, you wouldn't be participating in Audiogon forums.

I'm not sure how to deduce what is "typical" and only a psychosis could lead one to a correlation between being "typical" and being an "AudiogoN participant".

Right. Being a musician has no relevance to what turntable one owns, IMO.

From what I know about most musicians, particularly professional musicians, they don't usually have expensive stereo systems. They often own modest systems, and they listen for different musical attributes than do audiophiles.

Wrong again, but at least consistent.
When you have...
- Been a musician over 50 years
- Spent 1000's of hours in recording studios
- Performed professionally live and on many albums
- Sound engineered / mixed albums
- Produced albums
- Own the master tapes and can compare quality to the albums

After this, quite possibly you might just get "lucky" and understand what you are hearing. You can even pick out a turntable for your "modest little non-audiophile stereo" that sounds good and more like the live performance.

BTW, I did get rid of the 2 soup cans with a string tied between that was my standard "musician" system for years. My current systems plugs-in and everything.

Over a year ago I took a Technics SP-25 and matching base in on trade. It sat in my store room for months until a bit of ambition struck and I decided to mount a Hadcock tonearm on it just for grins and giggles.

I know the Hadcock well but had no idea on what to expect from the SP-25. I am simply amazed at the performance of the combination. The only modification is a TTWeights copper mat replacing the cheesy Technics stock rubber mat.

My total investment is a bit over $1000. Having heard most of the current models I'm confident there is no VPI, Music Hall, or Rega table/arm combo up to $3K that will come close to this set up IMO.

Go for a Technics or similiar 70's table.

Dealer disclaimer for Hadcock.

Shrevie, save up for something in the $3k to $4k range. My experience is that I wasted more money in mid-range upgrades then I actually spent in getting better quality components. $2k is not enough money to get a significant upgrade over what you have. You can get something nice for that money, but not something really good. In essence it's money not that well spent. But for $3,500+ you can get something special. Roughly budget equal amounts for a turntable/tonearm and phone stage. Don't overspend on a cartridge.

This may not be what you want to hear, but either keep what you got now, or save up for later. It's far and away the best bang for the buck.

Belt drive is simple. It requires no great engineering department. Most of the stuff you are considering evolved from DIY. That's not a bad thing but it is eclipsed by the engineering departments and research budgets of a major corporation like Technics. During the late 1970s and early 1980s when I was selling retail audio, every household in America was shopping for a stereo and most included the purchase of a turntable. It was a booming industry and the Japanese companies were leading the way. In turntables, there were statement products from every manufacturer and there were entry level, price conscious compromised offerings. Cheap direct drive wasn't very good and failed to compete successfully with entry level belt drive. The ultimate efforts of these companies were invariably direct drive. This is still true. However, the best turntables of that period are as good as the best made today. The R&D that went into these statement products was subsidized by the sale of hundreds of thousands of mass market units. As I'm sure you know, that subsidy no longer exists. Most big manufacturers all but abandoned turntable production during the 1980s and most have not returned to it. Technics is an exception as they continued to market their units to a professional element without interruption despite having cut back to just one model.
Perhaps the reason you don't see much talk of Technics among reviewers and their echo system is that a company like that has no need and little reason to bother with that political charade. They do plenty well on their own having a very well-established name and a vast advertising budget.
I'm recommending the Technics 12xx series because it is what you asked for with your car analogy. My own turntable, a Technics SL-150 MK II with Rega RB 300 arm is a default option. I just sold my Technics SL-1000 MkII to a prominent high end amplifier manufacturer because I felt that there was little justification for holding on to such a machine when we play LPs so seldom at my house. Nonetheless, I am not ready to abandon the option altogether so I mated an arm and table I already owned and will press them into service one day soon.
So buy whatever you see fit to purchase. Obviously I have no stake in this matter. What brought me to offer my advice was the wrong belief on your part that belt-drive is inherently superior to direct drive. That simply isn't the case. If I were in your position, I would be looking for a lightly used masterpiece from the golden age of analog. Since you specified a desire to buy "new", I pointed you toward the Technics. It isn't the last word but it is the best value barring an informed selection from the past. I have bought many excellent tables with dedicated tonearm for less than $1000 over the years and you can do that too. If you wish for more advice from me or have specific questions, please feel free to contact me personally.

I have no personal experience with it, but if I were in your position, I'd try to check out a Michell Tecnodec (googling will turn up lots of results). I've seen one in person, and it has a very high cool factor, based only on appearances. But it also got a very good review from Michael Fremer in Stereophile. He said that if your budget is $4,000, you'd do very well to get the $1,700 Tecnodec plus a $2,000 cartridge because the Tecnodec was good enough to show off an expensive cart to good effect. It's also very simple and straightforward to set up. It usually comes with a Michell-modified Rega arm that has easy VTA adjustment.

One other I'd check out is the Opera Consonance LP6.1 at an even lower $1,125, I believe (again google will take you there). Available from Grant Fidelity, with, I believe, return privileges.

Again, this is not a firsthand recommendation, just a couple of tables I'd try to learn more about if I were in your position.

(By the way, I was always skeptical of the Technics turntable—until I bought one with mods from KAB. It's easily on a par with my Oracle Paris, and I think it's an outstanding choice in that price range. So I guess I'm one of Lizzie's fanboys, which apparently includes anyone who happens to like the deck.)

-Bob

Thanks again for all the advice.

I already have simple record-cleaning gear, so that does not need to be factored into my budget. Now, some back story:

Here's what led me to this point. Long ago, I bought a MMF 2.1 to hook up to a mass-market system just to hear records. Then I shelved the TT when I got more into CDs. Much later, I replaced my amp and speakers and am now looking to upgrade the TT to something commensurate with the rest of my system (Vincent SV-236; Synchrony Two towers).

I haven't heard a lot of TTs, but I have heard a Nottingham which opened my eyes to what a TT could sound like. It felt more like being enveloped by music and less like being aware of listening to a reproduction of it. I know, it's a $3k machine and I'm not expecting to get that kind of sound on my budget. The point is, I know I can do better than what I have and now I have the amp/speakers to accommodate a better TT.

When I listened to the P3, it was not as big an improvement as I expected, especially after such positive press. It sounded cleaner than the 2.1 (by cleaner I mean...less mechanical? I'm not sure how to describe it). But, as I mentioned, it sounded grainy, but I'm guessing that's because of the cartridge (Do 10X5s normally sound grainy?). The lesson here is that it wasn't enough of an improvement over what I have to justify the cost. I'm not much of a measurements guy and try not to be too analytical about these things. I figured that I would walk into the listening room and immediately hear the difference in quality. I didn't. So I figured the next step would be a higher level Music Hall or Pro-ject or an entry-level Clearaudio, which are within my budget. I haven't had a chance to listen to any of these, and don't know if I will.

To those who are familiar with a 2.1 (or decks of similar level: Rega P1, Pro-ject Debut), here is my question: Which model TTs (aside from Technics, PLEASE) would you consider enough of a step up from entry-level to justify the cost?

Regarding Technics, I honestly had no idea there was a war raging between Technics/Anti-Technics camps. My research on TTs has been limited to hi-fi magazines, online analog articles and whatever gear I can audition. I knew 1200s were still being made, but didn't give them much consideration due to their being marketed toward DJs, never being mentioned in any of the main mags (Stereophile, TAS, etc.) and the bad things dealers and writers have to say about direct-drive. To a man I was told belt drive is the way to go. I find the reaction by the poster who was shocked that I had heard such things about DD pretty disingenuous. Do we not read the same magazines? Have you ever seen Technics listed as a recommended component, best buy, etc.? I haven't.

Now, I'm not saying I have dismissed a 1200 or a DD table. But I don't want to stoke the flame war going on in this thread. I have read the pro-Technics posts. You've made good points. It is under consideration. Now I'd like to hear about the many other models available.

To Macrojack, you did not misread me as your synopsis of my wants is exactly on the mark, much better than I could have worded it. Thank you for the advice. As I said, Technics is under consideration.

To Bondmanp, thank you for the link to the Music Direct Marantz bundle. This looks to be right up my alley and at exactly my price. I read that this model is a Clearaudio Emotion rebranded for Marantz. I've read good things about Clearaudio. Any comments?

I wouldn't indulge you all with more questions had this thread not proved to be so popular and you hadn't all been so very helpful. Thank you again.

I had an S2000 for about 50,000 miles / driven daily in all SoCal weather.
I don't get it. It was picky about tires, and didn't like wet weather, even with 'all season' hi-perf tires. Had to keep an eye on the oil, too. (always synthetic). If driven moderately, it was no faster than a Civic Si. Use the full tach range, and there was no catching it. The car was very hi strung and was probably not as buttoned down as it could have been.....Honda modified the rear suspenders at least 3x during the production run.

Why would I want such a hi-strung TT? What am I missing?

Sorry I came in late. The Technics SL-1200/1210 and/or the Rega P3 are good choices, but if it were my money I would look for a good condition used Micro Seiki DD-40.

Good deck, on par w/ the Technics (IMHO). Much better arm than either the Technics or the Rega (again, IMHO). Finally, easy to setup and pretty much stays that way. Plus the fact that it is a good looking TT doesn't hurt.

The best part is that they are cheap, typically $300-$400 plus cartridge of your choice.

What does that prove? Absolutely nothing.

I guess I just liked the sound of my music played back on the Rega table. Other than that... Nothing!

The music begins with the cartridge/TT/tonarm and ends with the speakers. Both are electromechanical interface devices. Finding harmony between the beginning and end is the path to a satisfying TT/arm/cartridge combination. The TT must compliment your speakers and style of music that you like best. If you are looking to just dabble in vinyl then start with a modest setup. If you are planning to upgrade the other components in your stereo, then buy something slightly out of league with the rest of your system.

If I were a DJ, I would go for the Technics.
I'm a musician, so I have a Rega.

Buy the VPI Classic and Benz cart
then retire

Macrojack,

YOU NAILED IT!!!

When I got back into vinyl after a 16 year absence in 2003 it was firstly out of dusting off my old 1981 JVC LA-11 belt driver. It was in storage for over 16 years. The rubber mat vulcanised and was chucked for a piece of cut felt I made. The belt was slightly stretched and took a few minutes of play to get sounding like it was running 33.3 rpm. The Shure M-72 ?? cartridge had a skewed canti-leaver. But I said " What the Hell lets fire it up." I still had a few dozen LPs in storage and put on Alan Parsons Stereotomy. When the needle hit the vinyl I felt an Oh Oh something special is happening here. Well it lit a fire and I became a vinyl fan again. I bought a belt for the old JVC but within weeks I bought a new turntable, a Music Hall MMF2.1. which I liked quite much. Leading up to the purcahse I read a lot on line and believed [wrongly] that direct drives especially older Japan Inc. ones were crap! I scratched my head as I tried to recall auditioning said units back in the early 80's and never thought ill towards a good direct drive. But I figured with the internet and all this online stuff the audiophiles were better expert. I figured I guess belt drive is the ONLY way to get good sound and only NEWER belt drives for the most part. Well I did not want to spend too much money so I bought the MMF2.1. It worked very nice even with its entry level cartridge. Well I was now first becoming a vinyl snob who began to diss CD's and one of those so called know it all belt drive experts. This disease stuck with me for oh about 4 years. I did get back into liking CD's as I got a beter cd player and knew I had to enjoy CD's too as not all my music wil be only on vinyl. By 2007 I began reading up on the Technics SL-1200MKII and visiting Kab USA website. I read a lot and soon realized I was just another ahole audiophile wannabe who poo poo'ed direct drive, well after being reeducated to see that it is more than just the type of drive system but the whole unit that counts I bought a KAB modded SL-1200MKII. Threw on my Denon DL-110 cartridge and it was an easy to set up, easy to use and pleasurable turntable. DEAD SILENT, ROCK STEADY SPEED and a pleasing analogue presence. I moved out of the much ballyhooed crap of being belt drive vinyl snob and knew that this belt drive direct drive thing was CRAP! This said the sound and stability of my SL-1200MKII pleased me so I got interested in quality direct drives. Well I knew I wanted to experience the Golden era of Made in Japan Inc. direct drive tables. The major Japanese makers from the late 70's to the mid 80s reached a peak of superlative designed direct drive tables. The beter ones were cool and I then found a TOP OF THE LINE JVC QL-Y5F to add to my system and she's a beaut. Sounds airy, euphonic and slightly thick in bass sound. She runs DEAD silent and ROCK steady with her double quartz lock. She is a fully auto (Oh no the audiophiles scream) but with only electronic controls ie: no mechanical switches, gears or parts for the functions. As an audio fan and one who enjoys really LISTENING TO MUSIC and no longer just obsessing over gear and tweaks she makes me very happy as an audio fan.

We all range from audio fans, to geeks, to audiophile snobs and the general public ain't much like that. We as such gear heads should do our best to educate the general listening public as to how one can get great sound without being a geek but not turn them off of good sound. We are as fans in this hobby who are blessed with a desire to get more info and to better understand that the avg. music listener does not care to be as into it. We should positively impart the idea of quality sound without being jerks and pissing people of so ts they only live with MP3's

Not taking any sides, but search for Agon virtual systems revealed (regardless of particular model number
Technics TT - 164
Rega TT - 257

Although a data point: I have heard Technics SL1200 at a classy record store in Santa Cruz and the sound was simply unforgettable (the classical piano piece sound still lingers in my mind,weak in the knees buckling sound, really) even in less than pefect environment. No, I do not own either Rega or Technics TT set ups, although all this rave about KAB modded Technics does tempt me add one more TT to my stable, i must confess. Just my perspetive...

Our OP wants to buy a turntable and use it, not turn it. His will probably not show up for sale on Audiogon. Ditto for hundreds of thousands of other users. Technics is an appliance like the Honda S2000. It does perform very well, and well beyond its price point, but it is not meant for people who obsess about their audio system just as the Honda is not for those who collect pit crew autographs.
Most of the world does not have audiophile disease even though they do like music and do want to listen to it at home and they do see the value in quality audio reproduction. They just don't time their wash cycle or track their refrigerator temperature fluctuations, or perpetually upgrade their water heater looking for quieter operation or quicker temperature rise. Most people research the purchase of their appliances before buying and then put them to use in improving their lives without a thought of upgrade or tweaking for the entire life of the appliance. This is how normal people function. Obsessives, however, rave about minutiae and pursue the absolute sound relentlessly, unaware and unconcerned that they are a marginally sane minority speaking in terms to which the fully functional cannot relate.
So, unless I misread Shrevie, he just wants to be able to play records at an acceptably refined level without altering the normal course of his life for matters other than routine oil changes and tuneups. He asked for a Honda because he wanted a Technics.

"Fanboy" is an insipid pejorative, the use of which generally indicates a weak intellect coupled with a mean streak and unbearable sense of inferiority.

Technics has owned turntable sales all over the U.S. since the late 1970s. For reasons I am unable to cite, they were the turntable of choice for radio stations and, later, audiophiles up until both groups migrated to CD.

A stock 1200 series turntable will serve your purposes nicely but, as others have pointed out, you may feel a desire to pursue incremental improvements over time. If so, KAB can provide numerous options at small prices. If not, you will still enjoy a performance level that belies the modesty of your investment.

As for phono preamp, there is really no reason to buy that new. It doesn't have moving parts and is unlikely to reach you with appreciable wear if you screen your seller.

There is a strong tendency to follow the lead of purists and their other followers when asking advice on audio forums. "Me too" disease causes the Amen chorus to conflate unnecessary concerns and standards. Buy what makes sense to you.

I would not be afraid to buy used but you are and you should follow your gut on that matter. Just don't be pushed to inaction by rumors and warnings. There are a lot of Rega owners out there who are very happy and there are 100 times as many happy Technics owners.

Figuring the expectations of someone whom I do not know is hard, but I don't think one can find the S2000 of analog rigs for $2k, especially a plug-n-play. A good value TT is more expensive than that. Maybe Shrevie knows better for him/herself and having heard a setup in that price range. Maybe he/she has specific goals that can be met at that price. I hope one of those goals isn't frequency response. Try before you buy.

Elizabeth - I hope your car tracks better than you do. The topic of this thread is turntables.

My personal recomendation: A fully-modded KAB Technics, about $800, a Denon DL-160 cartridge, $180, and one of these phono stages:

Pro-Ject Tube Box II $750

Lehmann Audio Black Cube Statement MM $500

Dynavector P75 $780

SimAudio Moon LP3 $549

Graham Slee Gram Amp 2 SE MM $410

Check out KAB's EV-1 record cleaning system (~$160) for an effective, low-cost record cleaning system.

Or, here's a turn-key solution at exactly your price-point:

http://www.musicdirect.com/product/80057

The only thing you lose is a vacuum cleaning option.

Elizabeth writes:

same for the Lenco, Garrard... Decent but retro.

You'll get some push back on that one.

Regards,

Good points Elizabeth. I don't doubt the reliability and enjoyment a Technics SL-1200 can provide. I experienced the same with my B&O machines. They're modern looking, easy to use, and offer a big bang for the buck. However, buying one in decent condition is difficult to do and it took a complete rebuild to get the most out of the 8002 I own.

On the other hand the modern Galibier Serac I own with SME Series III S and B&O MMC-2 cartridge isn't going anywhere and demonstrates a lot of virtues that current day designs offer. It has relegated the refurbished B&O 8002 to the garage.

Elizabeth, Isn't the counterpart to the Contour the Mercury Mistake?

I was wondering if you have an opinion about the Technics compared to the Rega?