Looking for really fine cables at really low price

Mitch2: You said you are not using WE speaker cables anymore, what are you using now? What you did not like about WE? Thanks.

I am trying to make balanced XLR interconnects with WE 16 gage wire. Do I really need a shield like the real XLR cables have, the one you can buy from Take Five Audio, or I can use regular wire as third wire (shield). What is the purpose of the shield, does it carry any audio signal or it is like a ground connection on a power cable. Let me know please. Thanks.

What great read this thread has been.......plenty of experimentation, information, science and artistic reviews.......without any juvenile bickering that plagues so many forums. Sooooo refreshing!

After reading Jim Smiths newsletter, Jeff Days blog and this thread I just had to join the fray! After so many years pursuing that perfectly detailed audiophile sound, I found myself spending more time straining to hear every audiophile sound effect I was told was sonic utopia instead of actually enjoying music. While my system is resolving, I'm sure it's pretty pedestrian compared to many hear.......Tekton Enzo's, two Vandersteen 2w's, Odyssey Kismet Monoblocks & Candela preamp, Oppo 105d, Schiit Yggdrasil and Wywires Power Broker. So far I'm very happy with the dynamics, tonality and musicality of its sound which made trying out the WE speaker cables and Belden 8402 interconnects irresistible. Until recently I was using all Groneberg cables, interconnects and PC's. I changed to WE 14ga speaker wire today and I'm already liking the results. I can't wait for them to burn in. I have some Belden 8402 and switchcraft RCA connectors arriving in two days. I ordered solder connectors, would compression fittings be better? Not sure if soldering will negatively effect the sound. 

Thanks for all the great information, commentary, insight .......and hopefully some advice into my first foray in making my own interconnects.

I'll second the Amadi Maddie Signature silver wires and Darwin Silver, the Darwin Ascension or Ascension Plus silver wires.  They are considerably better sounding than the Morrow Ma-3,4 or 5, the Crimson cable, DNM, Speltz, and some Audioquest (don't remember the model #), Magnan Type 2, Synergistic Research--have had them all.  Excellent clarity, bass with great ability to distinguish instrumental texture, and transparent highs without any tendency to etch.  Between the two, I'm not sure I have a preference. The Darwins get better from Silver to Ascension Plus. The Amadi Maddie Signature speaker cable is a phenominal buy.

HI mac48025,
Welcome to the WE club. I would not underestimate the capability of your system. I bet it bests many more expensive rigs. I think you have discovered musicality and are going to like it better than musical artifacts. "Real Music" as espoused by Yazaki-san and Jeff Day is the real ticket for many folks to enjoy the music. Music should have a Soul and tick your emotional strings, goose bump territory. Best, Rob

signature8  12-07-2015 2:55pmI am trying to make balanced XLR interconnects with WE 16 gage wire. Do I really need a shield like the real XLR cables have, the one you can buy from Take Five Audio, or I can use regular wire as third wire (shield). What is the purpose of the shield, does it carry any audio signal or it is like a ground connection on a power cable. Let me know please. Thanks.

If both components are designed in an ideal manner the shield will not carry signal current.  However that will often not be the case, as it depends on whether the components connect pin 1 of their XLR connectors to their circuit ground or to their chassis, and on the impedance through which the components connect their circuit grounds and chassis to each other.

Also, whether the pin 1's of the XLR connectors at each end of the cable are interconnected via a shield or a plain wire will affect noise pickup, susceptibility to ground loop issues, and the capacitance of the cable.

In general, constructing the cable in the conventional manner (a twisted pair of conductors surrounded by a shield) figures to stand the greatest chance of being optimal.

Regards,
-- Al
 

P.S:  Also see the post by Mitch2 on page 11 of this thread, dated 9-15-2015, 7:15 p.m.

Regards,
-- Al

I have some WE 10 gage wire, I read connecting it to binding posts without spades or banana connectors is best. Binding posts in my equipment does not have holes to push the wires; just wrapping wire and tightening the bolt does not seem to work; wire always wants to come out, is there some technique I am missing. Let me know please. Thanks.

/signature: strip the isolation further away and make a noose, be careful that the bare wires do not touch anything else or get some good Furutech spades, e.g FP 203(r). There are also rhodium plated OFC spade plugs on Ebay for less money.

Thanks Rob, so far I'm really enjoying the "natural " sound of the WE 16ga speaker cables with the Belden 8402 interconnects. They have a long way to burn in yet, but so far they seem to be a good match for my system. One unexpected improvement upon changing to the Beldon interconnects is that my slight 60 cycle hum I was experiencing diminished quite a bit....maybe just a coincidence or I corrected a loose connection I had.

With the new DAC, speaker cables and interconnects  I'm enjoying my cd collection all over again........with streaming audio coming soon. Does this audio journey ever end? Let's hope not :)

Theresa (or rather Wallace) Jacobs has no offering on long WE16ga runs but user "soundofthetheater" has 50ft runs of Western Electric 14 ga KS13385 cloth wire. Can I assume that this type, made by American Insulated Wire  (now Southwire?) is exactly the same as Jacobs' offering?

The We14ga Is excellent, period. So are all the other gauge wire, 10ga, 12ga, 14ga, depending on your use. I'm now using the WE10ga as power cord to amp and WE 14ga as power cord to DAC and Transport. Best, Rob

So no difference sonic wise re the vintage year? I noticed a range between 1940s (according to some, not verified) and 1999 in production years so the process for the core, the composition of and the process for the isolation could have changed. I am about to make a big buy so would appreciate more comments before I pull the trigger.

mac4805:  >>Does this audio journey ever end? 
I think this is a rhetorical question as the journey is more interesting than the destiny which is hard to define. Many have experiences close to "there", "here" but who knows it can even get better. A matrix like experience with signals fed directly to the brain maybe not fiction but science some day. Till then.... 

H/ear Here 

FWIW Jazz I bought 150' of the WE 14ga wire from soundofthetheater and it looks just like the 16ga I got from Jacobs except with more strands. Since my last post my wire has fully burned in and I love it. I prefer its sound over the Kimber and Groneberg I had.......for a fraction of the cost. 

So true, the journey is more interesting and never ending. After many years of chasing an audiophile sound of uber resolution, pin point imaging and chrystaline clarity I'm now enjoy real, musical sound so much more. Dynamics, tone and presence are my goal now. Thanks to Jim Smith and Jeff Day the WE and Belden cables came into my system and vintage tube amps and Altec speakers are next. Real sound at reasonable prices......I love it!

Hi mac,
I'm also purchasing Altec A5 or A7 VOTT. Definitely going to follow the mods implemented by Jeff Day. And remember both Day and Smith owe Shirokazu Yazaki-san for turning them on to the We16ga/Belden 8402 as well as Jeff's Arizona capacitor change and other such mods. Best, Rob

Hey Rob,

please keep us posted about your Altec experience. I'm still trying to decide between the A5, A7 or model 19. The 19's were made for home use but I'm leaning towards the VOTT's and would love to hear your experience with the Altec's.

Yes, I was very re-miss in not mentioning Yazuki-San. He has been so gracious in also giving me tube and capacitor recommendations for my Candela pre amp and my vintage RCA tubes should be here any day now. The blue and green cactus caps from Arizona Capacitors will be next. Then some vintage McIntosh tube Monoblocks along with the Altecs. Oh, how fun this is!!!!!!

Happy Holidays,

Tom

I think that Hitachi manufacture a lot of cables used in hifi

Thanks mac for the reassurance. I pulled the trigger for a 1,000ft roll.

Never before was I so convinced getting so much for so little. Albeit late to the game, I have now stocked up on the WE10ga and WE14ga and will start replacing wiring inside some of my speakers and amps with them.

Having said that, the 8 strand helical braid of 26g 6N copper from Jupiter is a real treat used as interconnects, more refined compared to the WE16ga. No need to run, they are still being made.

Ok Jazz.......it's official, you're audio crazed! 1000'? Wow, I love it and have WE wire envy now!  Guess I should order more :) I noticed soundofthetheater is sold out of 10 and 12 ga, so I better get looking for some elsewhere before it's no where to be found.

Ive not tried the WE14ga for interconnects as I'm quite happy with the Belden 8402. I believe Jeff Day and Yazaki-San both preferred the Belden for interconnects and WE16ga for speaker cable and wiring speakers, crossovers and amps.  

The WE wire is the very best value in all audio...period. I am thankful for it and many other more important things this Christmas. Merry Christmas! 

+1 Yep, there are important things than audio. People and places come before things.

Mac: and I have about 200 ft of the We 10ga.  I am more crazed to buy so many High Fidelity cables at such high prices. WE is already running out on Ebay so better stock up. Besides that, replacing all the speaker wires in my theater takes up 600 ft (the 1k roll is single wired).

Jazz.....have you found any sonic differences between the different gauge WE wires? I just ordered 96' of WE 10ga and am wondering if it would be better used as speaker wire or internal wiring in amps and speakers. I'm currently running 16 and 14 ga wires in parallel to the speakers and love the sound.....dare I add 10ga to the mix? Most likely I'll save the 10ga for any internal wiring I might do and for power cords.

So true. 1000' of WE wire is less expensive than one pair many high end interconnects. That alone should be enough reason for me to order some more! 

Where do you find WE 10 gage in longer lengths. 

if you remember old Yamamura wire that was basically the same wire as the WE (it even resembled the markings on the cotton ) just hand made with a bit better copper (6N), so you can also look for that..

I found 16' pairs of WE 10ga on eBay......tajacobs. I believe they have pairs up to 30'. Hope that helps. 

Im no wire expert by any means and don't know what it is about the WE wire that makes it so good, but the tinned copper they used might be preferable to the "better" 6N copper, but an alternative wire would be great as the NOS WE wire won't be around forever. 

As mentioned in another post, I prefer the WE10ga for speaker cables (single runs) and power cords so far, I am finished at least 4 variants for power cords and will test them after burning in. 

For sourcing, Wallace Jacobs (tajacobs on Ebay) is very helpful. Otherwise one need to resort to overseas markets like Taiwan and Hong Kong. Frankly I am surprised that there are still lots of WE left. 

Questions regarding AC plug/IEC:
-which pairs below $100 per set are your favorites? So far, I like the Furutech F11 (solid as usual) and Neotech NC-P311/P302 (not so solid but UPCOCC and cryo'd) which are currently discounted. 
-any better alternatives than the Furutech F-28 (r)?

Hi ,

I have ordered WE14GA 150ft and about 40ft leftovers
WE16GA.

Now I have questions about what
is Jeff saying about soldering: Is there really benefit of not being soldered
wire, just crimping? And how about capacitor soldering ( like mine Duelunds )
Jeff as he prefers crimping? Have someone experience degradations from
soldering? And if yes what steps have you took to go from soldering the
capacitors to crimping connection between the Caps and cable ? WBT Copper Crimp Sleeve is the
best solution? Or to make more disassemble can I wrap the bare cable around the
copper wire from the capacitor and then use heat shrink wrap sleeve tube ?  

Should I clean
the wires from capacitors from solder , and how to do so ?!

slowikpl, I mostly prefer crimping with a hydraulic crimp tool to connect speaker wires to connectors but in the case of the WE wire, I wonder if a good solder joint, which would melt the tin coating, would provide a more direct connection with the copper base metal, compared to crimping over the tin.  I have a bi-wired set of speaker cables constructed with Cardas spades soldered with Cardas solder, and they sound great.  I suspect the wire gauge and configuration will have more to do with how they sound than whether you crimp or solder the connections.

I first built a speaker cable with WE 16ga. It sounded awesome, really awesome. Little rough around the edges and may be little less refined than my reference cable. But it had less than 20 hours on it. Given the report in this forum, it has still some way to go to open up completely.

But, I got my hands on some WE 10ga and hook that up tonight. It is oh so smooth and musical. However, sound is bit thicker and slow than I like to. Does WE 10ga used as speaker cable also improves with some burn in time? If so, what characteristics changes? I really want it to have some more sparkle like WE 16ga but still retain the deep bottom end and smoothness. 

My system is very transparent and I notice a clear difference between 16ga and 10ga sound. Please describe your experience with the 10ga burn in and how the character changes.

Does having 16ga as interconnect with the 10ga speaker cable makes the sound more balance?

radiohead99,
As the WE16ga nears 100 hours it will lose any rough edge and keep the smoothness and sparkle and become much more refined in my experience. It keeps improving after at is my experience. I am currently using WE10ga for power cords and WE14ga for power cords on transport/DAC. Best, Rob

I have lived with the WE power and speaker cables for awhile now, including switching them in and out of my system and comparing with various other cables I have, so I will share some observations.  On the face of things, I wouldn't have expected the WE wires to sound as good as they do, particularly for speaker cables.  In general, I do not care for the sound of plated wires, whether silver-plated or tinned, as with the WE wire, and I most often like solid-core wire over stranded.  Although they are cotton-covered, the dielectric is some sort of plastic that is under the cotton.  I believe the sonic advantage of the WE wires likely has to do with soft-annealing of the copper.    

I like the power cords so far.  The only configuration I am using is an unshielded 7awg twisted quad of the 10awg wires, cross-connected.  This is similar to the highly regarded TWL PC, which is a braided quad of the same wire.  A next project may be to make shielded PCs for my front end gear using the same WE 10awg wire, which comes as a twisted pair.  For that I will simply use the 10awg twisted pair as-is, with a shield and spaced away ground wire.  So far, I have used Furutech FI-11 copper plugs/iecs but I may reconsider and try FI-32(G) connectors for front end gear.

I also like the speaker cable.   I have tried the three main wire gauges, WE 10awg, 14awg and 16awg with my two different high'ish powered amplifiers I have (300 and 350wpc).  A bi-wire, double quad run with a quad of 16awg wires for MF/HF and a quad of 14awg wires for LF sounds quite good and IMO as good as a bi-wired (i.e., two runs) of the (two-wires twisted) 10awg wires.  Another project I am planning is to make a bi-wire set using a twisted pair of the 10awg wires for the MF/HF and a quad of the 10awg wires (aggregate 7awg) to the LF.  I may rethink and use a double quad of the 10awg wires, which would be 7awg to both the MF/HF terminals and to the LF terminals.

Regarding the sound of the WE wire used for speaker cables, even after significant burn-in, both in my system and on an Audiodharma Cable Cooker, I would say they are lacking just touch of refinement, compared to some other cables.  This is a small nuance and not necessarily a bad thing, considering some cables sort of unnaturally smooth things over.  I also find that they have a touch of midrange prominence although, overall, they are fairly even-handed across the board, with the exception of that small midrange focus.  So, IMO, the strengths are an even-handed presentation with a slight midrange focus that seems to enhance vocals and an overall natural/organic sound which is quite enjoyable.  In general, I find the larger the gauge, the better for high powered amplifiers but I am also not surprised a simple pair of the 16 awg size is reported as working well for the SET group.

The wires that I keep going back to over here are another set of DIY cables made from raw wire, using the Jupiter copper in cotton wire.  I am using a braided biwire set with multiple (8-each) 16awg wires for the LF and multiple (8-each) 18awg wires for the MF/HF.  This gives aggregate sizes of 10awg for the LF and 12awg for MF/HF.  Those Jupiter-wire cables seem to offer the same level of naturalness as the WE wire but with additional clarity, more bass punch and a very nice tonal quality.  They do not have the midrange focus that I hear with the WE wire but the mids are in no way recessed.  Overall, in my system, I think they are overall better than the WE wires, although the WE wires are fun to put back in occasionally.  They also beat several well-regarded manufactured wires I have here.

Halo Everyone,

I accidentally stumble into Jeff;s web site and found out that the new Duelund DCA16GA is here. It is the replacement for the WE16 cable.

Hope this thread will be able to provide great info about this new cable.

Have anyone try them?

Thanks
Dan

This thread is 12 page long and suddenly no one interested anymore...hmm

It is hard enough to find any agreement on cables much less on exceptional cables FOR THE MONEY.

I certainly expect that my HFC Pros cannot be rivaled by any other cables regardless of price

Ok guys I have been enjoying my Western Electric NOS wire greatly. I use 10 gauge for both speaker and power cables. I tried the new Duelund match of the 16 gauge WE stranded/tinned wire and am very impressed. They better the Belden ic's pretty easily really. 

They better the 16 gauge WE wire also. Best ic's I have ever built. Great wire for unshielded ic's! 

Parts Connextion sells the new Duelund wire. Special stuff!. 

Here is a great link to see what Jeff Day has to say about them.

http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/?p=10084

100 or so hours of burn in is needed for them to fill out. 

Hi grannyring,
I have a question for you about your post.

I have been enjoying my Western Electric NOS wire greatly. I use 10 gauge for both speaker and power cables.

Me too.  I am currently using two twisted-pair runs (7awg per pole) to bi-wire each speaker.  I have considered double quads (which would be 4awg per pole!) but since I am only using 1M lengths to connect my monoblocks to my speakers, I suspect that anything over the 7awg I am using now would be overkill.  Also, I like that the NOS WE 10awg wire came in pairs and is machine-twisted so the twist is very consistent and probably better than can be done DIY by hand.  

I am however using twisted quad runs as power cords for my 300wpc Class A amplifiers.  The ground is also a pair of 10 awg wires so the total power cord consists of 6 of the 10 awg runs. No current limitations here and they sound better than anything else I have tried.

I tried the new Duelund match of the 16 gauge WE stranded/tinned wire and am very impressed. They better the Belden ic's pretty easily really.

Not surprised since I never really liked the sound of the Belden ICs. I am using a whole different thing here made from multiple small gauge solid core wires of exceptional purity and the Belden wire ICs didn't even compete, they comparitively dulled the sound. 

They better the 16 gauge WE wire also. Best ic's I have ever built. Great wire for unshielded ic's!

I assume you are talking about ICs made from the 16 gauge NOS WE wire?  I never tried making those but based on what everybody is saying about the Duelund wire, I may consider a couple of sets of ICs made from that wire.  Thing is, I have tons of the NOS WE wire here but none of the Duelund wire.  However, it appears Partsconnexion does indeed have that wire back in stock so it is available.  

My question is, how close is the sound of the Duelund wire ICs to that of the NOS WE 16 awg wire ICs?  If they are close, I will likely use the WE wire I have to make a set but if the difference is quite noticeable, then I will probably just go ahead and splurge for the Duelund wire.  I know how these things go and sometimes people like something "new" simply because it is new.  Even though the WE wire has a plastic coating, I believe it is special and very good sounding.  

Another consideration for me is that Jupiter has made an 18 awg tinned stranded copper in cotton hook-up wire for years.  I wonder why that wire hasn't caught on more since I would suspect 18 awg may actually be a bit better for ICs than 16 awg.  I haven't tried the Jupiter tinned/stranded wire either although I have successfully used their other copper or silver in cotton wires and have found their stuff to be very good.  It is half the price of the Duelund wire (although one gauge smaller).

Norm..I have not heard the Exemplar cables but i would put the Cerious Technology cables..especially the speaker and power cords..up against any cables up to $5k for 1/10th the cost....I replaced my CT-1U HF speaker cables and my CT-1 pcs with them..They are that good..

mitch2, the new Duelund stranded and tinned wire makes a better sounding IC than the WE16. I wish Duelund would make a 10 gauge version of it! 

It is more dynamic, resolving, and extended while still retaining that special musical tone of the WE16. I did not shield the IC's and used the Canare f10 rca connectors per advice I learned from this thread. Total cost of my ICs is some $50 and I know they sound better than $2,000 IC's! 

mitch2, my power cord only uses one 10 gauge run, not two. Never tried two, but may now. Too thick for my connectors however?

I am using Furutech  FI-11(Cu) plugs/iecs.
The Furutech connectors clamp the wires in a way that allows two wires to be clamped at the same time. The screw that tightens the clamp is located in the middle of the opening for the wires.  I believe this allows the use of spades to be tightened by the clamp but it also allows either the strands of a single wire to be split in halves which each half twisted like a forked snake tongue, or for two separate wires to be used.   IME, the 10 awg WE wire just fits on each side, so I have used two 10 awg wires per pole, plus two for the ground.  Good thing the WE wire is so flexible because terminating that is a bear.  Check the link below and scroll down to see the picture of the back of the plug, where the wires go in.   All of their models terminate similarly.
http://www.furutech.com/technology/
I liked the idea of using two 10 awg wires per pole for my two big amplifiers, and I made a similar cord to power my Isoclean conditioner that powers all my front-end digital stuff.  From the conditioner to the individual digital gear (i.e., server, dac, power supply, etc.), and for preamps, the twisted pair of 10 awg wires is plenty big.

Will do and thanks! 

I second the Cerious Technology cables with graphene.  They are extraordinery cables at a very low price.  Bob also gives a 30 day money back guaranty, but I "guaranty" you won't be sending them back, they are that GOOD!

Based on Grannyrings experience I just ordered 4 meters of the Duelund 16g to build ICs with Canare F10 RCA connectors. I had made ICs with Canare/16g WE wire both shielded and un shielded but when I got Kondo ICs at a very good price my WE ICs could not compete with the depth of naturalness and instrumental color of the Kondos. Jet

My experience is the same as Grannyring's with regard to the Dueland DCA16ga. I've greatly enjoyed my time with the Western Electric WE16ga, they are wonderful. But the Dueland tops the WE in all aspects. Roberts (the Beatnik) of Dagogo, replaced his $15,000 plus speaker cables with the Dueland DCA16ga. Best, Rob

Mikirob, good for you! Now we need Duelund to starting making thicker options for speaker and power cables. I am using the wire for the signal path in my tube amps. 

grannyring,
good to hear from you. I'll bet the Duelund wire in the signal path is fantastic sounding. I have heard through the grapevine that the other gage wire is on the horizon...don't know how accurate that assessment is, but I am betting that it is likely. Too bad so many Agon members miss the boat and spend much more on cables that are likely inferior to the Dueland by a wide margin. If a audiophile is short of $$$$, Duelund might be the ticket to Nirvana.

What speakers are listening to nowadays? I'm extremely happy that I bought the DeVore Orangutan 0/96s from my brother. While he is away in Europe for the next year or so I also have the use of his Harbeth SHL5 and Leben 600. So, I'm having mucho fun. Best, Rob

I hope this has been mentioned but if not, Cerious Technologies Graphene cables.

I have my dream speaker that I thought I could never afford. Great deal on them. Acoustic Zen Cresendo speakers. Ever since I heard them at Expona I was smitten.