klipsch cornwall iv upgraded crossovers

Thank you. Does not ring much ? Exactly my point. 

Shame Al K. is retired. He made me a Universal xover for my 82 Corns. & installed them outside the cabinets. He worked with me & I went with, Altec 511s w/ the 55v driver. Did the dynamat trick to the baskets & new gaskets all around, braced the front baffle & sides, but never did the brace to the rear panel. To me they’re outstanding. Also, I’ve been dealing with Don Sachs for sometime now & I also respect his opinion. Sorry I can’t help you out with who to go to. You can try the Klipsh forum, maybe someone there can help.

Mrdecibel,

While it is hard to separate out the sonic influences of other aspects of a horn’s design, I’ve heard replicas of classic designs where the primary difference was the material used, which means the big difference is resonance behavior.  I recently heard a wooden replica of a Western Electric 22A horn that I liked more than the original and other replicas I’ve heard.  
 

What has been hard for me to understand are the notable exceptions where the horn rings like mad yet sound very good.  The Western Electric 16A is such a horn.  It is spectacularly massive and made of huge, thin metal parts (you can walk into the opening by crouching just a little bit).  When the music stops playing, you hear a distinct echo that takes more than a second to fade away.  Despite the echo, the sound is not muddy or distorted and the sense of ease (lack of strain) and the large scale of the image is unmatched.  It took me quite a few listening sessions to overcome my initial prejudice from hearing that loud echo.

larryi, hearing the inside of the horn is a different matter entirely than what I am talking about. My favorite speakers are horns, but a too large of a horn, based on my listening position, will often lead to " hearing inside the horn ", which is another characteristic I am sensitive to. I cannot get used to it....that echo you speak of. Listen, I am not questioning your listening capability, nor your enjoyment. I prefer a " dead " material for a horn ( or I will deaden it ), and I truly prefer a horn that gets me further away from hearing that inside of a horn sound. Always, and my best, MrD.

mrdecibel,

I generally agree with you on horn coloration.  I was just pointing out some examples which don’t, in my opinion, fit the pattern.  While I would not pick the 16A as my horn, even if I had a room big enough, hearing it was an interesting experience.  
The big problem with currently available horn systems is the compression driver.  I don’t know of many that I like, as compared to vintage drivers, that are not crazy expensive.  I am not saying that modern horn/compression driver combinations are not good sounding, I just don’t find them as good as some 1930-70 drivers.  I particularly like Western Electric, YL, and IPC drivers from the past.

I feel like a little kid again playing that game. Remember you whisper into the person next to you after someone tells you something and boom it morphs into something else . What happen to Cornwell IV's crossovers ? I'm happy to see that a post from a year ago, has finally caught on. Thanks 

I bought Forte iv's instead of Cornwall iv's, because, to my ears, the Forte's had better bass. 

So... does anybody know of anybody that can upgrade Forte iv crossovers or  recommend what capacitors, etc. to use in an upgrade?

Thanks.

What about dampening the woofer baskets?  Think that would help smooth out the sound a little?  I know a lot of people have done the mid and tweeter.  

@perkadin 

if you don't like doing mods, fine. But don't consider a single minute that a Klipsch Cornwall uses state of the art components and that they didn't cheap out on parts. If they didn't, the Cornwall would be unaffordable to most of us.

Swapping crossover components for better DOES make a difference, sometimes huge; the question being "is it always suitable?" as it CAN happen that the voicing actually gets WORSE with upmarket components.

As for damping the horns, well, a horn should be inert, if it isn't (and thin plastic isn't) it can be improved with damping material. Here again, bean counters had the last word. It's free world, do it or don't, but don't call it snake oil as it's very real.

I have been running CW IV's with the Dynamat dampening upgrade as well as the VCap Odum and Path Audio Resistors per Don Sachs suggestions.  I love these speakers!  I still find the bass to be just OK, plenty of it, just a bit flabby and undefined IMO.  I have the CW's five feed out from front wall and have used a McIntosh MC275 VI as well as Pass Labs XA 25....augmented with four REL's, two front two rear.  Even with all RELs off, same sort of presentation.....a bit flabby and undefined.  Don't get me wrong....it's not bad, just could be better.  Surprisingly, with more power, the McIntosh tube amp actually a bit better control of bass than the Pass.  My question is, have any CW IV users experimented with the Townsend Isolation bars and gotten favorable results?  and how do your results compare to no isolation?

Thanks in advance!

@ptrck887 , Herbie’s Giant Gliders tightened up the bass for me, as well as making it easier to slide the speakers on hardwood. I affixed one under each corner with double-sided carpet tape.

BTW, I performed the same mods as you, along with swapping in WBT NextGen binding posts, and likewise love the results.

Mine were lined 100% inside with No-Rez. I ripped it out of one of them to the point of stock and compared them. I preferred the one without the No Rez. The No Rez seemed to suck the life out of them. I left the dynamat on the mid range horn. 
 

@ptrck887 , 

How are your CWs positioned? Mine have slap yo mamma tight bass. 

Thanks Mofojo,

I'm pretty good at speaker placement....these happened to end up at 5' off the frontt wall, 10' tweeter center to tweeter center toed in at approx 6" off each shoulder.  I sit 12' from speaker line and 17 feet off the front wall.  Incredible immersive soundstage...as I said the bass isn't bad and frankly I can live with it.  I have had other systems in other rooms where the bass was so focused and real I'd just like to get closer to that....thinking maybe the Townsend Isolation bars may help.  BTW...I'm on a 6" concrete slab floor carpeted.  Simple cork sandwiches helped.

Thanks

Just tuning into this interesting conversation now because I’m considering the CW IV’s.

I understand the various factors here. It is hard to see the logic of the CW’s not being improvable, unless the argument is that these speakers were designed without any price point consideration and they just happened to wind up at a mere $6k or so.

My guess is that if you found the engineers who designed these and got a few beers into them, they’d have all kinds of opinions as to how they would have perfected the design if they were allowed to spend more on parts or design. Note -- not what this or that user or DIY person wants to put in, but the designers themselves.

That could be wrong, but I’d be very shocked if they just happened to make the perfect speaker (given the design) at this price.