.........Jerry and the GD are still influencing music as it is today.
Jerry Garcia, A Legacy?
Unfortunately, many years have passed since Jerry Garcia engaged in the art of music making. I've never known of another electric guitarist who could incorporate without clear and cut demarcations the many multitudes of rock and roll, folk, jazz, blues, bluegrass, country, explorational real time composition, sustain induced psychedelic developments Be it partially safe to say also that I've yet to know of another electric guitarist whose playing was either loved or scorned to the extent that his was. Throughout my life as a Dead fan and follower of Jerry Garcia and of his various musical projects, I remember verbal battles with musicians who found JG's playing less enlightening than I and often my comments turned into vicious polemics defending the Grateful Dead' artistic integrity. Granted, JG did have many obvious musical hurdles during performances and didn't exhibit a typical so called pristine guitar playing technique but first and foremost consider that he played mainly rock and popular music (to make a point), on mainly an electric guitar, with a pick and 4 fingers, using electronic components on stages inside theaters, OK get real! Does Hiram Bullock posses the same technical polish as Julian Bream? The answer to that is a resounding no, neither did Jimi Hendrix and it's really of no consequence anyhow. What I very much loved about Jerry Garcia was that he placed musicality before entertainment and he took on a sense of risk, even danger, in order to help elevate the other playing musicians around him. Yes, Jerry Garcia's playing often ran hot and cold but when his playing ran hot, the rest of the Grateful Dead or Jerry Garcia Band would rise to a whole new level and when he ran cold, it had tenuous effect on the other participating musicians. I have to attribute Jerry Garcia's heightened level of ensemble cooperation to the way he listened intently with creative imagination, to his sensitive and tasteful playing, to his getting out of the way when the band needed space and to the degree of his vast musical knowledge that he gave away freely whenever the opportunity presented itself. From a subjective perspective while disregarding controversy, the music and persona of the Grateful Dead and of Jerry Garcia touched an enormous fan base which exhibited a degree of loyalty and dedication beyond compare. Many of the kids that I grew up with disliked the Grateful Dead and I would make the radical assumption that they still do. I don't mind bucking the trends and I'll even take a little pride in my prophetic wisdoms. How about you??
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22 years after his passing and his music still plays strong. People are listening to him more than most anyone else. At Archive.org the Dead have the largest collection of any group. Their music was sent up with NASAU in space. They are in the Smithsonian. Jerry has inspired legions of players. I would call that a legacy! |
Did Jerry Garcia leave a legacy? More appropriately, did the Dead?? I think so - definitely. While based strictly on definition the word "legacy" doesn't automatically connote anything of value, I do see the JG/GD contribution to popular music in a positive light. Others have already done a good job explaining why. Let me add (I think not previously mentioned) they were innovators in the studio and on stage...talking electronics and sonics not just musical experimentation. I'm not a Deadhead by any means but, in my O-pinon, if any other band released just 3 albums the quality of American Beauty, Workingman's Dead and Mars Hotel, those alone would have ensured it a positive reputation of the highest order. Same applies to the song-writing talents of Garcia/Hunter as evidenced on those albums. If JG/GD are to criticized, it's best directed at a lack of self-editing given their enormous and uneven (mostly live) output. To bdp: Don't forget who Jack Frost turned to for song-writing collaboration. |
The thing about the Dead is that they were an experimental band live, so it's going to be hit and miss from song to song and from night to night. Experiments sometimes blow up in your face, but when all goes right it's worth the risk. As for their studio stuff--yes, the singing is an acquired taste and not everyone's cup of tea, but I think it's a shame if a rock music fan doesn't like American Beauty or Workingman's Dead. I don't think it reflects badly on them, it's just too bad because I believe there's so much there to enjoy. And I feel the same about Sgt. Pepper's, Pet Sounds, Smile and the first two LP's by the Band. I don't put all of these on the same pedestal but they're all extraordinary albums IMO. Anyway, the Dead, live--always on the edge, rolling the dice and willing to take a percentage of the bad with the good. That's part of what made them special and part of why even fans might not want to hear everything they did. I know the band members owned up that they sometimes stunk so I don't know why any fans should have a hard time admitting it. |
I got got to meet and record Levon, Rick and Richard on several occasions during my college years at New Paltz. They were the house band at the Getaway Inn and often played at the Horsmen's Saloon, too. I also was able to record The Band a few times. Their music Is very dear to my heart and I cherish the times and memories. That being said, if judged by their live shows, they had great moments as well as some forgettable ones. The issue here is that the Dead's catalog is 99 percent live. As I have already stated, f any bands worth, genius, or merit were only based on listening to their live concerts, I think you would be less impressed, or at least bored after a few concerts. The Dead seldom bored anyone and impressed most. And, that is after thousands of live concerts. Most bands do the same show and play the same licks day in and day out until they have their 20 song concert down. The Dead had about 120 or more songs they could pull from on any given night and the playing for each song could vary in a small way or a very big way. |
So nice to see so many passionate opinions concerning Jerry and the Grateful Dead. A legacy absolutely. But, it's his ensemble playing within the context of the dead as whole as well as the songs and lyrics written by him and Hunter. Weir and Barlow as well. The songs will live at least several generations after everybody in the band is dead and gone. That the dead didn't listen to eachother is taken out of context. If, it was during space. I mean jeez that was one of the main things that was/ is so freaking cool about them is the group jamming together. An psychic connection that created a circuit extending to the audience with everybody playing in the band and feelin it |
mmakshak, I saw the Dead many times, The Band only once. The Band under poor circumstances, it was outdoors, so the sound was hard to judge, but the performance was excellent. I imagine the show you saw, the crowd was there for the Dead, so the energy would have been directed to them. There was nothing like a Dead show. I was at a show where they finished the second set with "Not Fade Away". The band left the stage and 38,000 Deadheads just kept on singing the chorus, until the band came back.The scene in the parking lot, well pre "Touch Of Grey" was always fun. The sound of nitrous tanks hissing, the smell of food cooking, and patchouli. I don't like crowds, but I always felt content and comfortable with those people. I remember reading when Dylan toured with the Dead, he showed up, played and left. He didn't socialize or communicate with the Dead. Listen to the Last Waltz, or any of the other Band albums. Both bands were very good in there own right. Like I said in my earlier post, we all have different tastes, and music is not just a technical exercise, The Dead, for those of us, who got it, there was nothing else like it.I had seen them three times, and it wasn't until the third show that I got it. After that I tried to never miss a show in a three state area. Very few bands could, or would play a 4 day run, without repeating a song. It would have been nice if this could have been a topic shared by fans, but there are always people who feel the need to prove that there taste in music is superior. If I saw a topic on a band I had no use for, I wouldn't post, I probably wouldn't bother reading it, but that is me. Over the years I have been pleasantly surprised at how many audiophiles are also Deadheads. Especially since we spent years listening to second and third generations cassettes.I still have about a hundred tapes, but no working deck. I'm waiting for the day when they release my favorite show. One of the few shows where Jerry played "Believe It Or Not". There was nothing like a Grateful Dead show;-) |
I don't know what it is, bdp24, but I would have to disagree with you about The Band, having seen them and the Dead on New Years Eve at the Civic. While the Dead's Thursday show was otherworldly(Lesh, in the second set, was bouncing bass notes off the top of the vertical wall very far away.).. When the Dead started to play after The Band finished, you could tell the Dead were in a completely different category. |
bdp24, I have to disagree with you about "Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band". My reason has to do with the time it was released. The very first day it was released, we listened to it, until we knew all the words. It also was so different from any other album that had been released before, that it was unbelievable. |
You just mentioned The Pizza Tapes. There is always one guy who has to keep telling everyone his knowledge, opinions, and taste are better than ours. Well when Tony, Jerry, and Grisman played together, listen to the dialog, there was a whole lot of mutual admiration. Jerry was not technically a great singer, but he could touch your heart, as could Bobby, and I was very fond of Brent. Some of my favorite artists would never win the Voice, but there is something special about all them. Dylan, Tom Waits, Lou Reed, all soar beyond their vocal limitations. Listen To Jerry on "Lucky Old Sun" Vol 8 Milwaukee WI 1991, it is beautiful, both the vocals, and the whole bands playing.. I was there, I had shitty seats, but was glad to be there. As to song writing Hunter/Garcia would go in my top 10 list of my generation. And I don't think any band either GD or JGB did a better job interpreting Dylan songs. Jerry's version of "A Simple Twist Of Fate", is brilliant. As to the Beach Boys, I know McCartney and others thought Pet Sounds was brilliant. I've tried, it has it's moments, but I don't hear it. Now Sgt Pepper, that was brilliant. PBS just showed a documentary on Sgt Pepper, I highly recommend it. I seldom discuss music online, as everyone has their own tastes, and that is fine. But I will never understand the dickheads who feel it is necessary to piss all over music that the OP enjoys. Years ago, I quit reading the Asylum's Music posts. Someone would hear the newest Diana Krall album, and the assholes would magically appear. There are bands I despise, but you may like them, why should I crap on your tastes. It is as valid as anyone else. Anyone who wants to expand someone's tastes, would be better served by saying hey, if you like Krall check out__________ insert similar artist you think might expand that person's musical journey. For many of us, the Dead hold a special place in our hearts, and in our music collections. In his last years Jerry was having problems with arthritis. And I think if he was still alive he would have retired, or only played, occasionally. I recently read somewhere how grateful John Mayer is to be a part of Dead and Company. To the OP, thanks for sharing. As I am not a grammar critic, I found it easy to read. But it's nice that someone felt the need to point out the need for paragraphs.When I first got a PC, I only read Audio Forums, then over the years I have been involved in many different forum topics. It cleared up one misguided belief. I found that there were arrogant assholes on most sites. What a relief, I had thought it was just audiophiles who had an unusually large number of assholes. Turns out they are all over the internet. |
Just by chance I was listening to "The Pizza Tapes" with Garcia, David Grisham and Tony Rice when I came upon this thread. I was turned onto the GD in 1978 by a good friend. I have been to many shows over the years, some excellent, some bad and everything in between. The thing that strikes me most about Garcia is the emotion of his music. Technically great, maybe not but emotional, very. Jerry and the band started me on a musical journey that has introduced me to a wide variety of wonderful music (old and new) and opened my mind and heart to new musical ideas. I will forever be great full (pun intended) for that. |
I saw my first Dead concert in 1977 (Palladium in NYC) and was lucky enough to see them and the Jerry Garcia Band over 100 times. To me, Jerry had a unique guitar sound that has been rarely duplicated. When you hear it out of context, you know it's Garcia. (The same can be said of Neil Young, Pete Townshend, John McLaughlin, and other icons). The Dead also instilled in me a life-long appreciation and love of live music in many forms, but IMO, the Dead set the high-water mark for rock music performance. No two shows were ever the same, and they let the music be the primary focus. I really miss the Grateful Dead! |
The Grateful Dead are beyond petty criticisms. They have preserved early American folk music, have played to generations as part of the American mythos, whose music resides deep in the identity of our freedom to wander the land and come together in peaceful gatherings, to have our souls soothed and stirred by comforting hymns, mournful ballads, soaring anthems. Some just don't get that from this music--perhaps they do from some other music--good for them. Just don't try to deny others their heroes--it cannot be done. |
"Wall of sound" was powered by a stacks of McIntosh amps, that's just cool no matter what you currently believe. I only saw him play 33 times (27 Gd and 6 JGB) and those shows changed how I enjoyed music. Those experiences led me to seek out other bands, that I still enjoy today and enlighten my appreciation of art. So happy to see a thread on AGON about Jerry, maybe there's hope yet for a group of gear geeks who believe a $1200 6-foot power cord is going to make their rig sound any better.......you freaks rock! You "haters" out there should give the 1990 Spring Tour shows a chance, its fully remastered for HD (to 192KHz-24Bit) and 8 complete shows. The live recordings you'll ever hear, of any band. |
Having been to a couple of GD concerts, I did happen to notice the great majority of the listeners were 'altered' in some fashion or another. They, like the majority of any group, had their good days and the not-so-good ones. The albums and studio stuff was polished, but considering the 'support' they had in the era, it's pretty understandable...and by whom it came from, well...that's almost legendary. ;) I liked and still do some of their selections. A 'camp follower', no. I save my hero worship for the truly heroic; admiration is doled out ruled by HO. And that makes for a short list... |
In the early 1990s, Coleman was hanging out backstage, waiting to sit in with the much beloved and much detracted improvisational rock band, the Grateful Dead. Coleman didn't like what he was hearing. An admirer of Jerry Garcia's effervescent guitar playing, Coleman had played with him a number of times. But these were the dying days of the junked-out Grateful Dead. Improvisations that once had seemingly unrelated and indeed contradictory had degenerated into six musicians playing whatever was coming into their minds. Not a pretty sight. Listening to this cacophony, Coleman said to the Dead's manager: "Man, these guys don't listen to each other when they play." Yet a listen to a bootleg recording of the concert has Coleman hitting the stage during the Dead's "space" segment (their own "free jazz" that by the '90s was very much driven by MIDI and electronics). Suddenly, the band sprung to life, culminating in a version of Bobby Bland's "Turn on your Lovelight"--precisely the type of rhythm and blues that Coleman played as a kid in Texas. The band was listening to each other again. https://socialistworker.org/2015/07/10/listening-with-ornette-coleman |
My understanding is that after Coleman went to see the Dead in 1987 he was impressed and then picked Jerry to be the guitarist on 3 cuts of his next album. He he later played with them in 1993, coming out during space and then through the rest of the show. I've never heard where he made that comment but can understand it when it comes to space. Anyway, I don't think he picked Jerry because he thought he was not a very good guitar player but most likely the opposite. |
Ah, the Dead...still among the living....*S* Although not a 'camp follower', I still enjoy and admire what I heard when...and having heard the Wall of Sound live on a 'better day' for the band, it's still a 'high water mark' on the wall of my mind. I wonder if one of their bits made it onto the records heading out into the galaxy on board the Voyager spacecrafts. I wonder what an alien will make of that. Would they prefer that over Elvis? Beethoven? Alien steps off, "I need to talk to Jerry." "Don't you want to meet our leaders? Jerry's dead..." "I know Jerry's Dead. I need to see him." "NO, he's f'n dead...demised...long gone..." "Oh...well, screw y'all..." Leaves in a huff....blows up planet... Don't blame me if I'm right...;) |
Back atcha, brother. I saw The Dead in ’67 (in the Panhandle at Golden Gate Park), with Ron (Pigpen) singing. I liked that first album a lot, and the next few that followed. But when they started trying to sing harmonies (that had became all the rage in the late 60’s/early 70’s, what with C, S, & N and The Band leading the way), they became, and I’m not being hyperbolic, unlistenable to me. American Beauty is painful to listen to, the singing is so bad. The band I’m in now does "Friend Of The Devil", but the two singers are on key! Here's an illuminating comparison, for those who don't object to that kind of thing: Listen to the live Dylan album with The Band as his band (Before The Flood), then that of him live with The Dead (Dylan & The Dead). Huge difference. Are they just different in kind, or is one just a lot better of a band? I have my opinion. |
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Listening to "God Only Knows", it's a song with touching lyrics--pleasant, dreamy--a bit pressured during the end, but likable for its changes in tempo, complex phrasing and background arrangement--an ambitious song for that period--can see why McCartney admired it, much the same way George Martin made some of his and Lennon's songs much, much better. I have to admit though--give me "Fun, Fun, Fun" and "I Get Around" by the Beach Boys. |
Understandable boxer. I played in my first all-original-material-band in ’71, and could not get the other guys to listen to my recent (’66-’71) Beach Boys albums. The image of them at that time was of their early, surf style music. There is actually some great music on the early albums, like "Don’t Worry Baby" and "In My Room". Brian stopped touring with the band in ’64, stayed home and recorded the Pet Sounds album without the other members, using the best studio musicians in Los Angeles. He then overdubbed their vocals when the instrumental tracks were completed. The material and sound of that album is completely different from the earlier stuff. McCartney and Lennon flipped when they heard it, Paul himself considering it to be the best album he had ever heard, responding with the Rubber Soul album. Beatles producer George Martin considers it a landmark album. Pet Sounds has consistently been voted the best Pop album of all time in British polls, beating even the over-rated Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band. That album was Paul's attempt to equal the Smile (see below) tapes he had heard, one of the songs on that album he actually singing on ("Vege-tables"). Brian heard Rubber Soul and started working on the legendary Smile album, which is a very progressive, psychedelic masterpiece that ended up being shelved instead of released in early '67, as it was originally scheduled to be. It was finally released a few years ago in three versions, including a 6-CD (!) boxset. In 2003, Brian and his current band performed the Smile album live in London, people flying in from all over the world to hear it. McCartney was there. Brian left The Beach Boys in the 1980’s, and after his brothers Carl and Dennis died, Mike Love took over the band. It is he who was responsible for the Kokomo, Brian having nothing to do with that dreck. |
Now you're insulting me because I state that Brian was a sellout who led a bubblegum band? Wow is right. I'm not a musician (although I've helped support many over the last 40 years) so maybe I shouldn't state the obvious? If you don't think he's a sellout, spin Kokomo again & get back with me. In fact spin that entire album, then spin the deads last album (built to last) & tell me which band leader compromised creativity. |
Wow. Musical taste is one thing, ignorance another. Ask any songwriter about Brian Wilson---start with Paul McCartney. Ask any producer---start with George Martin. Absolutely, and by a large margin, the best of his generation. Jerry Garcia himself liked The Beach Boys---the two bands did a tour together. Anyone who can listen to "God Only Knows" (or any of many, many other BW songs) and not recognize it’s brilliance don’t know nothin’! |
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Without question, pigdog! Damn, now Garcia's not just good, or even great, but a genius? Guess we'll have to come up with a new term for J.S. Bach, Brian Wilson, and Hank Williams. If Garcia was a genius, what were they? I say were in regard to BW because he damaged himself to the point of losing his talent. Speaking of Robert Hunter, he's been working with a guy I like a lot---Jim Lauderdale (Jim did an album of all Lauderdale/Hunter songs). Now THERE'S a good songwriter and singer. In my opinion, of course. |
