Jazz for aficionados

Zoot Sims,  Plays Johnny Mandel.  (1984)

@audio-b-dog 

FYI, Naturaleza and Feminina are two different recordings. 

I was referring to the album Feminina.

@stuartk, I must have gotten confused. There is a lot going on with my qobuz screen. I'll check it out again. I liked what I heard.

Here is a juneteenth offering of Pharoah Sanders on sax with Leon Thomas singing. To me, this is spiritual music. Let me explain what "spiritual" means to me. I grew up in a secular house. I have only gotten into the concept of spiritual as I have researched my book on the suppression of women through religion. I have gone back to the beginning of humanity, when I think women were the cave painters and shamans. At that time, I believe art and religion were one thing, a celebration of existence in the universe. Then music was spiritual in that it was a joyous expression of being part of the universe. I think Pharoah Sanders expresses that joy in this set, "The Creator Has a Master Plan." It's a half-hour, so when you listen, I think you need to sit back and offer up your soul to the music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViweO33oo2Y

@audio-b-dog,

@stuartk is correct. The confusion is the song Feminina is on this Joyce (Moreno) with Mauricio Maestro - Natureza - (produced, arranged & conducted by Claus Ogerman) (Full Album) 1977 lp.

And this lp Joyce Moreno - Feminina - 1980 is titled Feminina.

I really like both lp’s but I think this Joyce Moreno - Feminina - 1980 lp has better production value with better overall engineering making the entire song writing skills, musicianship and arrangements really stand out. And the songs Feminina and Mistérios are on this lp as well.

@audio-b-dog 

Yes; I’m familiar with that recording.

in the late 60’s, 70’s there was an intensified interest in spirituality among musicians, Jazz and otherwise.

R. Thompson, P. Townshend: Sufism.

Beatles: Yoga (TM)

Santana, J. McLaughlin: Yoga

W. Shorter, H. Hancock, S. Cowell and many more: Buddhism

McCoy Tyner and others: Islam

Some, like Coltrane, seemed not to adhere to any single path.

You might say spirituality was "in the air" in that era. It certainly affected me and a number of my friends in high school. 

I recall opening the gatefold to Caravanserai and encountering a quote by Paramahansa Yogananda before I’d even become aware of his famous aurobiography. And of course Mahvishnu Orchestra album and tune titles were an expression of the same. Spiritual themes were common in the music of The Incredible String Band, G. Harrison, Cat Stevens, , the Who, Donovan, etc. It wasn’t until a few years later that I got into Jazz and started noticing this same trend. I guess "My Goals Beyond" was probably the first for me, after Mahavishnu.

@audio-b-dog,

The Creator Has A Master Plan · Pharoah Sanders - Karma. This is nice stuff. Thanks. The musician Lonnie Liston Smith has a hauntingly similar style of playing .

Listening to Triilogy 3 by Chick Corea,  Brian Blade and Christian McBride.

(2025)

@tyray 

Feminia is a strong release, for sure! 

@curiousjim 

That was an excellent group.

In my opinion, Christian McBride is the best living jazz bass player out there and Chick Corea might be in the top five living jazz pianists. And while I am not as familiar with Blade, he kills it in all three Trilogy albums.

@stuartk, @audio-b-dog,

in the late 60’s, 70’s there was an intensified interest in spirituality among musicians, Jazz and otherwise.

R. Thompson, P. Townshend: Sufism.

Beatles: Yoga (TM)

Santana, J. McLaughlin: Yoga

W. Shorter, H. Hancock, S. Cowell and many more: Buddhism

McCoy Tyner and others: Islam

Some, like Coltrane, seemed not to adhere to any single path.

You might say spirituality was "in the air" in that era. It certainly affected me and a number of my friends in high school. 

I recall opening the gatefold to Caravanserai and encountering a quote by Paramahansa Yogananda before I’d even become aware of his famous autobiography. And of course Mahavishnu Orchestra album and tune titles were an expression of the same. Spiritual themes were common in the music of The Incredible String Band, G. Harrison, Cat Stevens, , the Who, Donovan, etc. It wasn’t until a few years later that I got into Jazz and started noticing this same trend. I guess "My Goals Beyond" was probably the first for me, after Mahavishnu.

I couldn’t have written it any better myself. It was Mike Shrieve the original Santana drummer who introduced Carlos to Coletrane, and the rest is history. I have the Caravanserai lp as well and also the Carlos Santana · Mahavishnu John McLaughlin - Love Devotion Surrender lp .

Check out the roughly made Beatles documentary of their experiences with the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi who developed TM.

Many years ago I had an opportunity to become part of a medical study at Morehouse College of Medicine to take TM, totally free and all they wanted to do was monitor my blood pressure and see if TM would lower your blood pressure. It was one of the best classes I’d ever had the opportunity to take.

By the time I was 18 I had mastered about 10 Hatha Yoga Asanas  (poses/stretches). But that was a LONG time ago...

Lonnie Liston Smith · The Cosmic Echoes - Meditations 1976

@tyray, Yes, Lonnie Liston Smith is on the Karma album. I read a bit about Pharoah Sanders, and it said that after Coltrane died he had trouble finding a group of musicians who could play the type of sound he wanted. I guess he would refer to it as spiritual.

@stuartk, I think I share in all those musicians spiritual connection to the music, and I feel it when they play. But I don't share in any scripture or liturgy. If I were to rewrite "The Creator Has a Master Plan," I would substitute "She" for "He" in regards to the Creator. I think music at its essence is spirituality, and I think that's why I talk about being joyous when I listen to certain music. 

There is music that appeals to my intellect, and that's a whole different matter. I enjoy it and often get lost in it, but it does not make me feel joyous. 

@curiousjim I think that Esperanza Spalding is someone to watch on the bass. I saw her in a Herbie Hancock band, and although I was at the Hollywood Bowl and a fair distance from the stage and she was standing at the back of a lot of musicians, she was electric and I couldn't take my eyes off her hands. I felt like they were magical. The little I read about her, it sounds as if she were a savant, like many of the great musicians. Playing piano at three, performing at a very young age. If I could live my life over, I would want to have musical talent. Writing prose is not at all joyous. It's a lot of work. I was also a painter until my back gave out, and painting was totally joyous because I never knew what I was going to do next. I loved getting lost in a painting. 

@curiousjim,

Yep, Christian McBride for a young lion, is holding down the traditions of Jazz. I got another ' young cub' for you.

Chief Adjuah aka Christian Scott - West of the West

Chief Adjuah (Christian Scott) | Max Mucha | Elé Howell |Cecil Alexander| Morgan Guerin | Richard Howell

@audio-b-dog 

I don’t view spirituality as belonging exclusively to any particular path but I don’t view it as exclusively feminine, either. Just because patriarchy has had a poisonous  impact upon religion doesn’t mean there isn’t a healthy masculine aspect to spirituality. Be careful you don’t throw the baby out with the bath water!

@tyray 

My wife still does Hatha Yoga every day but it’s a very long time since I did.

+1 @audio-b-dog, 

Esperanza Spalding is SPECIAL indeed. Although she doesn't think so, I think she is in a class - all her own. 

@audio-b-dog 

I definitely agree that Spalding is a great bass player, but I don’t think her style is as diversified as McBride’s. 

@tyray 

You talking about Christian Scott?  He’s not an old timer, but he’s definitely been around for a while. Not sure how many albums he’s played on, but he’s probably put out a dozen or more as Chief Adjuah.

Oh and Esperanza Spalding has a beautiful voice!

@curiousjim,

Yes! Christian Scott/Chief (Xian aTunde) Adjuah to me anyway, is a so called ’young lion’ as is Christian McBride. Or am I missing something here?

Me thinks Esperanza Spalding is a much more, far more diversified bassist than Christian McBride (will ever be...). She sings, writes, produces, is a band leader, can put her double bass down and pick up an electric bass and jam her ass off, completely and utterly more dynamic, can do a one man (woman) show, fly to Rio de Janeiro and produce/sit in, lead the band - with Milton Nascimento, sing in perfect Portuguese while she’s playing the double bass and she’s younger than both Chief Adjuah and Christian McBride. At her age, she’s just starting to feel some blues. She just has more in her ’tool kit’, so to speak.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/jazz-for-aficionados/post?highlight=Esperanza%2BSpalding&postid=2717403#2717403

stuartk, yes the yin-yang symbol, masculine and feminine in balance. But the Creator a man? Give me a break. The Creator was a woman from the beginning.. Up until maybe 10,000 years ago there were only female goddess symbols. Not male. For some reason (and I can think of many) men made goddesses and female power forbidden. That's Abraham's first commandment, there shall be no God before Yahweh, and he was talking about those Asherah statues in the backs of Hebrews' houses.. Anyway, we should probably take this off the forum if you want to discuss it more.

Esperanza Spalding is a perfect example of what empowered women can do. So is Alice Coltrane. And I think the great artists, including John Coltrane, are in touch with their inner feminine. Even though they might worship a male god. We were talking about different male jazz players being more feminine and others being more masculine. One of the great classical pianists Alfred Brendel just died, and he favored nuance over power. Put him in a class with Mitsuko Uchida, my favorite classical pianist. But I drift.

It would be interesting for people to name male musicians that they think are more in touch with their feminine side and those who are only into raw power. I think Louis Armstrong was both, and that's what made him a genius. John Coltrane wouldn't have married a powerful woman like Alice Coltrane if he didn't understand feminine power. Now I'm thinking about Miles Davis--maybe later Miles Davis, and I don't know. Earlier Kind of Blue Miles Davis definitely had the soft touch. Later Bitches Brew, throwing tantrums Miles Davis. I don't know, even though I own Bitches Brew and play it. 

Branford Marsalis

I just happened to be up late and wanted to share:

Stanley Clarke: Tiny Desk Concert - NPR Music

@curiousjim  Chick Corea passed away almost 5 years ago...

@audio-b-dog I find that masculine/feminine concept a bit odd, at least when we are speaking about art. Does inspiration or 'divine touch' has a 'gender'? I guess we might search for examples of expressions of our 'inner child' as well? Concept of beauty or ugliness has always been subject of change. Who can exactly pin point all influences, innate or cultural and social that made him/her feel or express in a certain way? Not all men/women are the same and ('spiritual') gender might be one of the factors, but is it a crucial? Imho it is a bit oversimplifying, or perhaps it was my 'socialistic' upbringing that was oversimplified. Aldo I am aware that you are speaking about spiritual concept, one could easily fall in trap and start looking for other things ('differences') among men, based on their race, color, origin, etc. Call me naive, but I believe that music creation is a 'sum' of many things and influences, past and present and not something that is born out of personal vacuum..

Soren Bebe - “Echoes”

Trio from Denmark. Just piano, bass, drums. Simple, mellow, beautiful and shows off your equipment nicely.

alexatpos, I also had a socialist upbringing. As I studied archaeology for my book, I found out there were Marxist archaeologists as well as feminist archaeologists. One of the biggest questions I have, and I have no answer, is what society would look like, through what lens would we view the world, if women hadn't been suppressed for at least 5,000 years?

Let's look at art and music. When did women begin to participate in the arts? I know there are a few exceptions, but I mean on a somewhat broad scale. Can you think of any women composers prior to Clara Schumann in the mid 1800s? And Clara Schumann was a bright, bright star, married to a great composer and loved by other great composers like Brahms. 

In jazz, when did women begin to participate,? And by participating I mean more than singing. Truthfully, we are just beginning to sense the power of female musicians today. When we talk about the greats in jazz, Coltrane, Davis, and all the others, no women come up. So the suppression of women has a lot to do with the arts. We can say the same about painting and writing. Since women read fiction much more than men, they became involved a bit earlier. Jane Austin lived in the early 1800s.

I have a lot of theories which include the masculine affects on physics, but they're not for here. But theories aside, just think about the history of the arts. It is so obvious that women and whatever they have to offer have been suppressed as far back as the Greeks and the Jews, both of whom formed our way of thinking and the lens through which we see the world. Which, by the way, has included war since the first patriarchies with the Sumerians and Aryans. Homer writes about war. The Torah talks about war. It's been all the rage since women were suppressed.

And just to throw in a bit of feminine energy, here's a taste of Geri Allen:

https://www.google.com/search?q=geri+allen+youtube&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS945US945&oq=geri+allen+youtube&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIKCAEQABiABBiiBDIHCAIQABjvBTIHCAMQABjvBTIHCAQQABjvBTIKCAUQABiABBiiBNIBCjE2MzU4ajBqMTWoAgiwAgHxBSZ6fNsVcTVt&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:eab80acb,vid:OfP7Z0NQKpE,st:0

I don't think I've heard James Carter's name mentioned on this forum. This guy's got a ton of energy. He's still relatively young, in his mid-fifties. Here's a taste of Bro. Dolphy:

https://www.google.com/search?q=james+carter+bro.+dolphy+youtube&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS945US945&oq=james+carter+Bro.+dolphy+you&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBwgBECEYoAEyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQIRigATIHCAIQIRigATIHCAMQIRigATIHCAQQIRigAdIBCjI4MTY3ajBqMTWoAgiwAgHxBTAvDEUynA_58QUwLwxFMpwP-Q&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:f3a74d0d,vid:uHhbCo_Pw_A,st:0

I've been listening to James Carter for hours. The more I listen the more I think he might be the best horn out there blowing today. And he blows a lot of different horns, including woodwinds. Makes so many different sounds in so many styles, it's amazing. 

Pipi, thanks for the recommendation. I will listen today.

@audio-b-dog 

stuartk, yes the yin-yang symbol, masculine and feminine in balance. But the Creator a man? Give me a break. The Creator was a woman from the beginning.. Up until maybe 10,000 years ago there were only female goddess symbols. Not male. For some reason (and I can think of many) men made goddesses and female power forbidden. That’s Abraham’s first commandment, there shall be no God before Yahweh, and he was talking about those Asherah statues in the backs of Hebrews’ houses.. Anyway, we should probably take this off the forum if you want to discuss it more.
 

FYI, I don’t know whether there is a creator or not. Nor do I have a horse in this race. The Yin/Yang symbol expresses the spiritual perspective/reality that everything is part of a Whole (insert whichever name you prefer) in which masculine and feminine play equal roles and furthermore, in which each aspect contains the other. This is not a polarized paradigm nor is it  defined by the historical record of human religion. One might say it’s Life in action. 

@tyray 

Thanks for the S. Clarke link. Mighty tasty!  I particularly enjoy the inclusion of violin.

BTW, I saw SC twice with his band and once with RTF back in the day. 

stuartk, All of this is metaphor to me. Feminine Creator, Masculine Creator. It tells us about the society we live in. The suppression of women and the feminine is the world we live in. Take it away from the spiritual, it's just history. The point I want to make, and most people will disagree, is that humans didn't always live under patriarchy. That was a societal choice. And we all have a horse in the race, because we all live under patriarchy. It's about the suppression of women, about the suppression of races and religions. It's how history has led to the mess the world is in. My belief is that without a feminine perspective, our future does not look bright. I have to write a book about it because it's so hard for people to accept. If you want to know more about the history contact me in the texting part. I can't do it. For some reason my screen is screwed up. I can give you a historical perspective if you want. It's all very complicated, and men pretty much immediately dismiss the idea. Women usually say, "Of course."

To stay on the subject of jazz, here's another cut from James Carter. He's a master technician. He plays in so many styles, it's hard to find something that you could call his style.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNlsE9FGcDQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Byn3PG1DY3c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH8149UpCIY

@audio-b-dog 

You won’t get any argument from me re: your re-framed assertions. You’re 100% correct. 

@stuartk

Thank you. I didn't begin to write a book on this topic. I researched my way into it and felt that it was an urgent issue that needed examining. 

It does relate to jazz and other music. Art defines us as being human, and I couldn't imagine living in a world without music. And I feel that jazz hits the deepest spiritual parts of humanity which go back to our very beginnings.

@audio-b-dog 

Unfortunately there’s currently a movement towards exacerbating rather than correcting the problem. I’m afraid things are going to get much worse before they get better.  Needless to say, this goes way beyond the scope of Jazz or the arts. 

If jazz fans don't know, I highly recommend

jazzwax.com

Hermeto Pascoal and Quarteto Novo - ’Brazilian Octopus’ w/ Gamboa, Théo, Lobo, - Live in black and white film

Brazilian Octopus - Brazilian Octopus - 1969 (Full Album)  Turn this up, very loud.

Músicos:

Hermeto Pascoal (flauta)

Lanny Gordin (guitarra)

Olmir Stocker "Alemão" (guitarra)

Aparecido Bianchi (piano, órgão)

Carlos Alberto de Alcântara Pereira (flauta, saxofone)

João Carlos Pegoraro (vibrafone)

Nilson Matta (baixo)

Douglas de Oliveira (bateria)

Músicas:

01 - Gamboa (Ciro Pereira/Mário Albanese)

02 - Rhodosando (Hermeto Pascoal)

03 - Canção latina Olmir Stocker/Vitor Martins)

04 - Pavane (Octopus B./Gabriel Fauré )

05 - Como Borboletas (A. Popp/P. Cour)

06 - Momento B / 8 (B. Octopus/Rogério Duprat)

07 - Summerhill (João C. Pegoraro)

08 - Gosto de Ser Como sou (Ciro Pereira/Mário Albanese )

09 - Chayê (Hermeto Pascoal)

10 - Canção de Fim de Tarde (Thereza Souza/Walter Santos)

11 - O Pássaro (Alexander Gordin)

12 - Casa forte (Edu Lobo)

Neco – Samba E Violão Volume 2 - 1968 - Full Album

@tyray, thanks for the Brazilian tastes. I'll listen today. I've been listening to Maria Rita, do you know her? Also, I have a question. What part of Brazil does the samba come from?

@stuartk, I think I shouldn't talk anymore about what I'm writing on this forum. Thanks for being interested, though.

@audio-b-dog

The Brazilian Samba Dance:

Samba de Roda is the precursor of Samba originating in the Recôncavo region of Bahia, Brazil, during the 17th century. It’s a cultural tradition combining music, dance, and poetry, with roots in the dances and traditions of African slaves in the area according to UNESCO. The term "Recôncavo" refers to the coastal area surrounding the Bay of Todos os Santos. 

African Roots: 

Samba’s origins can be traced back to the West African traditions brought to Brazil by enslaved people, particularly from Angola and the Congo.

Bahia as a Birthplace: .

The northeastern state of Bahia, where many enslaved Africans were initially brought, became a fertile ground for the development of various samba-related rhythms and dances.

Samba de Roda: .

A crucial precursor to samba was the samba de roda, a circle dance performed in Bahia, which was recognized by UNESCO as a Heritage of Humanity.

Urban Evolution in Rio de Janeiro: .

While originating in Bahia, samba became a prominent urban musical expression in Rio de Janeiro, the then-capital of Brazil, where it further developed into the genre we know today.

Symbol of Brazilian Identity: .

Samba’s infectious rhythm and cultural significance have solidified its place as a symbol of Brazilian national identity and a key element of the Brazilian Carnival.

This is a video given/shared with me almost 20 years ago from Randy Roberts: 

Sparrow Roberts

Samba de Roda: Samba Chula from Sao Braz in Bahia, Brazil - John of the Ox and Aluminum Samba de Roda live, ’In the palm of your hand’. 

The Brazilian Worldwide Matrix: https://www.matrixonline.net

'In the village of  São Braz, Bahia, Brazil. A clip from Jorge Pacoa’s documentary, "Samba de Roda na Palma da Mão". For much more:

THE BRAZILIAN Worldwide Matrix — https://www.matrixonline.net — the platform that does what no one else does — connects the vast Brazilian creativity — musicians, writers, filmmakers, visual artists, choreographers and dancers... — from the famous to the unknown genius — to the entire world.'

Hope this helps.

@audio-b-dog 

No problem. FWIW, I wasn't attempting to draw you out, simply expressing solidarity. 

@acman3 

There’s also the more mainstream-sounding group with S. Clarke, J.L. Ponty and Bireli Lagrene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8k_wWONq6U&list=OLAK5uy_nOg-crbxqVHoue7lX0JDXOXk0IyhyXRCE&index=2

@tyray 

Thanks for the music education! Keep it comin’!  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjOYscEN6Qc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU8hkHDHhXQ

@tyray, thank you for the Brazilian Samba information. In the U.S., we've had many peoples influence the original blues-based jazz. Is that also true in Brazil? Was there any Portugese influence, perhaps from fado? I don't know what other groups settled in Brazil. It all makes me think of the Roma/Gypsy influence on Spanish music. When I was in Spain I went up into a cave to hear Flamenco. And also to a concert to hear El Amor Brujo by de Falla, one of my favorite "classical" pieces. 

@audio-b-dog,

I’ve never heard of Fado music in Brazil? Maybe I’m wrong? In Portugal yes. I’m not familiar with Maria Rita?

Joshua Redman

Joshua Redman

I admired him too ...