Jazz for aficionados

@acman3 

Thanks for continuing to enhance our enjoyment of Jazz!  

I've only seen Taylor live and that was in a quartet with Frank Vignola, Peppino D'Agostino and Vinnie Raniolo. 

@jafant 

Sibilance is no fun!

I will check out "Better Angels".

 

@jafant 

You're welcome and yes, indeed!  

@frogman 

Just watched the Liebman interview. Wow -- what a refreshingly down to earth and "real" statement that manages to point out aspects of Free playing that make it both appealing and difficult.  This makes me want to seek out more interviews by Liebman. Very cool!    

 

@pjw81563 

I can empathize with your difficulty. One aspect of Post Bop I enjoy is its use of  certain techniques also used in Free playing but in "limited doses" within a generally melodic context. I can handle a certain amount of dissonance if it’s used as "seasoning", but when it becomes the "main course", not so much. 

@audio-b-dog 

It is because jazz is about swagger...

For players of the alpha male variety, sure. However, not all men playing Jazz fit into this category. 

 

My introduction to ECM:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XuRItFyQPo

 

@pjw81563 

Wow -- that's a pretty intense example! I cannot handle that. 

David Murray is an example of an artist whose recordings span a spectrum. I don't enjoy the more severe albums but I enjoy the more mellow ones, like this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBNXS7C-5So&list=OLAK5uy_nd0zv3V5YsbQ_wdk4MyFkij5UKnMKHhjQ&index=2

He did 3 or 4 albums with the same group, perhaps all recorded in one session. 

Ming's Samba is another I like. Could only find one tune on youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDECyUGsU8Y

 

 

@curiousjim 

Enjoy ! 

 

 

@mahgister 

I'm envious -- if I find one unfamiliar recording per month to enjoy, I'm consider myself lucky!

Can we clone your ears and transplant them onto my head?   ;o)

@curiousjim 

Yes-- Strozier is the sax player. 

So many excellent recordings to explore by W. Shaw if you've not yet done so. 

 

@acman3 

I checked out several highly rated Shipp recordings. He's too outside for my tastes but those who enjoy the likes of Cecil Taylor and Horace Tapscott will no doubt  enjoy him.  

When I'm in the mood for something dark and moody, my go-to's are A. Hill and M. Waldron. 

. 

@alexatpos

As I have expand my collection with years, the albums that I wish to buy are becoming less frequent, but more difficult to find and more expensive...I know, I know, but I just do not care about digital content...

I’m in the same situation.

Thanks for the Eddie Costa suggestion. I will explore! 

Life "encompasses" a lot. Different musicians choose to express their respective experiences of being human in different ways that may or may not be consistent with how a given listener defines "wonderful", "beautiful" or "magnificent". I guess it comes down to how much effort we’re willing to put in as individuals to try to find the "beauty" in something that initially strikes us as ugly/abrasive. There is an inevitable tension between artist and the one perceiving the art. As artists we want to be free to be genuine in our expressions. Presumably we want to facilitate some degree of communication, as well. For some, "the personal is the universal". For others, part of the craft is working with the material in ways that make the universality more explicit. It’s a balancing act. 

@mahgister 

"and he does not makes noise at all ... "

Perhaps, in the not-so-distant future, someone will develop an AI tool that removes all the grunts, groans, moans, etc. from Jarrett's recordings ;o)

Yeah, "Head Hunters" was the first H. Hancock album I encountered -- checked it out from the local library in ’75. Soon after that I was seduced by Blue Note album covers into exploring that label’s offerings. "Maiden Voyage" was the first H. Hancock recording that really grabbed me. It’s still one of my favorites. I never did get much into Hancock’s synth stuff but love his acoustic playing!

One exception-- "Fat Albert Rotunda" is irresistible!  

@frogman 

Thanks so much for your instructive comments. 

 

rok2id:

"I wish I could like the current stuff. The technology is better. That should result in better recordings. But what's missing is the essence of Jazz music. They improvise, but they are not improvising over the blues. They are trying to be too 'cerebral' or 'intellectual' too 'deep'. It's a happy party time music. Played is speak easys and cat houses. It's about women and love and sex. The boys from New Orleans would not even recognize this current day stuff as Jazz"

I assume this is meant to be tonque-in-cheek. . . 

Some of my "must have Jazz"...

"The Miles Davis Quintet 1965-1968" box set
"My Funny Valentine" by the same group with George Coleman instead 
of W. Shorter

W. Shorter's Blue Note recordings
Andrew Hill's Blue Note recordings
Bobby Hutcherson's Blue Note Recordings
Jackie McLean's Blue Note recordings

"Extrapolation" by John McLaughlin and John Surman 

BIll Evan's live Vanguard recordings with LaFaro, Motion. 

Chick Corea: "Now He Sings; Now He Sobs" 
Chick Corea and Gary Burton: "Crystal Silence"

Grany Green: "Idle Moments"

H. Hancock: "Maiden Voyage"

Pat Martino: "Footsteps, "Exit" 

Dexter Gordon: "Go" 

Helen Merrill: "A Shade of Difference", "The Feeling Is Mutual" 

Sheila Jordan: "Lost and and Found"

Sarah Vaughan: "Live in Tokyo"

Jackie Ryan: "You and the Night and the Music", "Doozy'

Betty Carter" : The Audience with Betty Carter"

Johnny Griffin: "Way Out", "The Little Giant" 

Woody Shaw: "Little Red's Fantasy", "InMy Own Sweet Way"

John Coltrane: "Coltrane's Sound", "A Love Supreme"

Joe Henderson: "So Near, So Far-- Tribute to Miles" , 
"Inner Urge", "State of the Tenor"

Clifford Jordan: "Spellbound"

Harold Land: "Xocia's Dance" 

Serge Chaloff: "Blue Serge'

Cedar Walton: "Eastern Rebellion" (the first one, with George Coleman) 

Art Farmer Quintet: "Blame It On My Youth" 

Art Pepper: "The Art of Pepper" 

Michel Petrucciani: "Au Theatre Des Champs-Elysees"

M. Tyner: "Time for Tyner", "Soliloquoy", "Sama LaYuca", "Focal Point"

David Murray: "Ming's Samba", "Ballads", "Lovers"

Booker Ervin: "That's It", "Booker and Brass" 

rok2id:

Am I erroneously attributing this quote to you?  Could be I'm mistaken and it originated with a different poster-- my now 65 year old brain certainly doesn't work like it used to!

I'm not the type to spend my time on the Forum fighting with others so I'll just say I don't happen to agree with that characterization of Jazz (whomever said it) and leave it at that. 

Best wishes,

Stuart 







 

Don't know if this one's already been mentioned but Roy Hayne's "Out of the Afternoons" is a great showcase for Kirk...

mikeydee;

I first encountered Vic Juris' playing on Charlie Mariano's "Savannah Samurai". I love the guitarist's contributions to that session but disappointingly, haven't found recordings featuring him as a leader nearly as stimulating.  

What titles would you recommend ?

Thanks! 

Any love here for George Coleman?  

He preceded W. Shorter in M. Davs' "Second Great Quintet" and can be heard on the following :

"My Funny Valentine"
"Four and More"
"Live at Antibes"
"Live at the 1963 Monterey Jazz Festival"

Of course, he played on "Maiden Voyage".

 A particularly strong showcase for his playing is the first release by Cedar Walton's Eastern Rebellion Group.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuYeeMcyCIk

Clifford Jordan and Booker Ervin are two other great tenor players...

Booker Ervin is perhaps best known for the "Book" series-- particularly "The Space Book" and "The Freedom Book", with Jacki Byard, Alan Dawson and Richard Davis. I'm not a big fan of Byard's piano playing and so, prefer the following; 

"That's It" 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdFcGPr61OM&list=OLAK5uy_kFjQVJBscTDjTjBo3SnCO1Z9yJeOsxhG8

Two excellent Blue Notes: 

"Structurally Sound":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubhw_DB1Wog&list=OLAK5uy_n34RacdIO2Ixy351nVydncPmST4Fk6NlE

"Tex Book Tenor":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3qtMT0xyys&list=OLAK5uy_koBj97vJI2Legl-0WBPogbQqmRIRaoSZc

And Ervin with Mingus: "Mingus Ah Um" and "Blues and Roots". 
  
Clifford Jordan's early OJC recording "Spellbound" is a good one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NPLfzOhiY4&list=RD6NPLfzOhiY4&start_radio=1

And "Glass Bead Games"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xp58woJOgbI

mahgister:

  "It seems I am not tired ever of Grant Green".

There's something very bracing/refreshing about Green's relatively cool tone. Kenny Burrell is great but he and most other Jazz guitarists of that era utilized such a bass-heavy tone. To me, that somewhat dull, thick sound becomes monotonous rather quickly but I don't find that's true with Green-- there's a vibrant, singing quality to every note that I find very appealing. 

Of course, Green (for much of his Blue Note work, at least) played an ES330 -- which is a considerable thinner-bodied instrument than the bigger Jazz boxes commonly used by Burrell, Montgomery, J. Smith, Ellis, etc., so that's also a factor. 

@alexatpos:

RE: Grant Green Trio Live in France.

Nice one!

So much for my theory about Green's tone in respect to the depth of guitar dimesnions-- even on this deeper guitar, he achieves a very articulate tone!  Well, they do say "tone is in the hands". 

I'm a sucker for any version of "How Insensitive" 

@frogman:

" I love Scofield. But, a must-have?"

Have you heard the 2 cds he's done with J. Lovano?

"Time On My Hands"

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=john+scofield+time+on+my+hands

"Meant To Be" 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7QU0UqPUx4&list=OLAK5uy_lbfLBZzOcvTmuu56_O_VUDr49WFcqawkA

OR, Joe Henderson's "So Near-- So Far-- Musings for for Miles". 

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joe+hendersom+msuings+for+miles


If your preference is for Scofield the Jazzer, I believe you should check these out. I'm personally not a fan of his more commercial stuff and therefore cannot offer any recommendations in that regard. 

@pjw81563 

Kenny Garrett and Vincent Herring. I have seen both live numerous times.

Lucky you!  

Thanks for suggesting the Live at the Iridium release!  

"Beyond the Wall" is another favorite of mine. 

 

@mahgister

I’m not a horn player, so cannot comment on who’s "best". 😊

However, I know who I like!

Four of my favorites: in order, Kenny Garrett, Vincent Herring, Art Pepper, Jackie McLean:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdF-iNLw2WY&list=OLAK5uy_nzRDhTQsYxrCuBNAomx-pAqToHlmWhfYg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn03wa67zKw&list=OLAK5uy_n2S-VDqt5glXBqlg6cVlLra0XN1zkYIo8&index=2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn03wa67zKw&list=OLAK5uy_n2S-VDqt5glXBqlg6cVlLra0XN1zkYIo8&index=2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejswK8CS8S4

 

@frogman 

OK. Got it. 

 

Please do not forget Charles Tolliver, with the likes of Jackie Mclean and also as a leader! 

 

 

"Blame It On My Youth" is my favorite Art Farmer recording.  

 

 

 

 

@mahgister 

RE: "Extraordinary Sarangi", when I listen to such players, it feels like they are playing my nerves for strings !  

@curiousjim 

Fortunately, Burrell's discography is quite extensive, so you should be able to find plenty of tasty offerings...

@jdougs 

... and don't forget bassist Eddie Gomez!  

@curiousjim 

+ 1 

 

@alexatpos

What is "frogman’s rule" ?

Check out Penguin Jazz Guide as well.

Not trio, but new:

McCoy Tyner and Joe Henderson: Forces of Nature: Live at Slugs 

@alexatpos 

I'd say both Guides have their strengths and weaknesses.Without question, the All Music is more complete. 

Thanks for explaining the Frogman rule. 

If we only listened to the best of the best we'd grow bored, eventually, no? 

 

@curiousjim 

There are lots of great Stanley Cowell releases to enjoy!  

 

@curiousjim 

Glad you're enjoying him!

Personally, I think he's underrated but then, I'm biased ;o)

 

@mahgister

It seems frogman hit hard another time with someone i did not know but is very interesting musically ... Thanks ...

I agree.

This one is mesmerizing and i dont like electronica generally  ...

I’d have preferred a less distorted guitar tone on the "Waterbirds" recording.

J. McLaughlin didn’t employ his Mahavishnu O. guitar tone on "In A Silent Way" and for good reason. Needless to say, others will disagree.

Kenny Burrell is one of the bluesiest Jazz guitarists and he has a flair for Latin sounds as well...

Check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVy5TxNolog&list=PL0q2VleZJVEkuXM-SbcDHf4ZkY1dmFWYH&index=1

@curiousjim

Speaking of A. Farmer, are you familiar with this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G5quNRGnCE&list=OLAK5uy_nnE2EwWUyJwoXr_u6ToaLz56ptYbNZlso

The same group recorded the "Something to Live For" album, dedicated to B. Strayhorn. Here is the title track (the full album is not available in full on Youtube):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiqhOBDfo8U

@pjw81563

Miles is also on record stating that Philly Joe was just as good on the kit as Tony Williams and Elvin Jones.

 

That’s quite an endorsement! I’m curious: would you say Philly Joe was as innovative as Williams and Jones, or more of a peer in terms of technique?

 

@pjw81563 

I think Elvin and Tony Williams were more innovators as both of them had unique styles that they innovated first and other drummers follow/copy to this day. 

Yes -- this is how I think about them as well. 

I'll look forward to hearing more from you on this topic. 

@curiousjim

Although I happen to prefer the two I suggested already, "Modern Art" and "Portrait of Art Farmer" are better known: 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xlwqdq1KY8&list=OLAK5uy_kBmYS4IvRE1WxDXl7XeTXGQkBqCWRO4Io

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLgFTR1hWTc

@frogman

Well, I’m perplexed. You are more erudite than I"ll ever be on the topic of Jazz but I definitely don’t hear the music of the 2nd great 5tet as fusion-like. Once Corea and Holland arrived, yes. Before that? No.

Would you therefore characterize the albums J. McLean released when he had Williams on drums similarly, or William’s two early Blue Notes as a leader? I’m curious about your thinking process. Care to explain?

Speaking of B Carter, I particularly enjoy "Further Definitions" and "Jazz Giant" even though they sound "old fashioned" within the context of my collection, which is mostly Post Bop.

Each post of frogman is like a small jazz masterclass 

Yes, indeed!  

 

 

 

 

 

@frogman 

Thanks for taking the time to go into this topic in more depth. What you say makes sense.

As a guitar player, I understand the significance of modes.

Perhaps Fusion is itself too broad a term because as time went on, the genre changed quite a bit. Now that we’re into this topic, I’m not even sure when Fusion started. Is "Extrapolation" Fusion? What about "Odyssey of Iska" or "Mountain in the Clouds" or the first version of RTR w/ F. Purim? Or, are these transitional, occupying a hazy territory somewhere between Jazz and Fusion?

The above albums sound very different, to my ears, than say "School Days" , "Splendido Hotel" or "In Search of a Dream". These albums are much slicker, more Funk and Rock influenced, with a more overt emphasis on dazzling chops and "tunes" based on (to me) often monotonous riffs/ostinatos rather actual chord changes.

BTW, the "Lifetime" album I referred to was not the one with larry Young and Johnny Mac. It was this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DZccr0dzWE

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@pjw81563

"Not just technical facility but also the brain connection with the arm muscles so to speak, developing that facility to the point where the subconscious mind can take over the basic mechanical task of playing, thus freeing the conscious mind to concentrate on the spontaneous development that distinguishes the best jazz..."

Arguably, this is a prerequisite for performing ANY style of improvised music well.

It’s pretty hard to stay "in the zone" while switching back and forth between right and left brains.

Your topic brought the following to mind:

"Just a little more and this instrument is gonna be so connected with my brain that my fingers aren’t gonna have to play it"

-- Duane Allman

@mahgister 

"There is a Japanese visual art in which the artist is forced to be spontaneous. He must paint on a thin stretched parchment with a special brush and black water paint in such a way that an unnatural or interrupted stroke will destroy the line or break through the parchment. Erasures or changes are impossible".

--Bill Evans