Jazz for aficionados

Or, country by country.

Cheers

Rok, you and I both have shortcomings we'll have to live with, and accept. You have Attention Deficit Disorder, and I'm allergic to what I call "High Class Culture". You just go with the flow, and make your usual contributions; country by country sounds good. I'll wait for Acman's input, sum it all up, and lead the parade.

Enjoy the music.

I love this parade. This year it Honors all soldiers that fought in the first world war, on all sides.

I think France has a larger percentage of women in their militrary than any other western country. And what Foxes they are!

What does this have to do with Jazz? Google, LT Jimmy Europe, US Army. He may have introduced Jazz to France, esp Paris.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGMcUaUkDmg

Cheers

Since they are all dead I imagine they don't much care.

Our first stop on the OP's road to internationalize OUR precious music.

Today we will explore the history of Jazz in that Hotbed of Bebop, Finland! Listen to the youtube before you sneer.

Read the link to "The History of Jazz in Finland", then listen to the music link. They have come a long way. I could buy this CD. Very Good IMHO.

http://www.jazzpoparkisto.net/finnish_jazz.php

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3ClOE_idE4

Cheers

O-10, I am sorry to say ,I know very little about African jazz. I am a huge Dollar Brand/ Abdullah Ibrihim fan. I still have not found time to even research the issue of African jazz.

Things are settling in a little, and it seems like an interesting topic, but I can't guarantee anything in the next few days. Do what you thick is best.

Acman, your post is exactly what I was expecting. After my last move, none of my tube gear was working. Previously, I had sold an Audiolab preamp, and the guy I sold it to, said there was nothing wrong with it, but it didn't quite suite his taste, and asked for his money back; I obliged and that turned out most fortuitous, because it was the only thing working after the move.

Do what you can when you can, we'll understand.

Enjoy the music.

Rok, since you took Finland, I'll take Norway, and begin with "Terje Rypdal". He was born 23 August 1947 in Oslo, Norway, is a Norwegian guitarist and composer. Most of his music has been released on albums of the German record label ECM. Rypdal has collaborated both as a guitarist and as a composer with other ECM artists such as Ketil Bjørnstad and David Darling. Over the years, he has been an important member in the Norwegian jazz community.

The son of a composer and orchestra leader, Rypdal studied classical piano and trumpet as a child, and then taught himself to play guitar as he entered his teens. Starting out as a Hank Marvin-influenced rock guitarist with The Vanguards, Rypdal turned towards jazz in 1968 and joined Jan Garbarek's group and later George Russell's sextet and orchestra. An important step towards international attention was his participation in the free jazz festival in Baden-Baden, Germany in 1969, where he was part of a band led by Lester Bowie. During his musical studies at Oslo university and conservatory, he led the orchestra of the Norwegian version of the musical Hair. He has often been recorded on the ECM record label, both jazz-oriented material and classical compositions.

His compositions "Last Nite" and "Mystery Man" were featured in the Michael Mann film Heat, and included on the soundtrack of the same name.

Since I recently broke a stylus, I can't review what I have on my ECM albums, but here's what I found on You tube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiZ6YuIrj54

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CttBw2tcrB0

This music refreshed my memory of Terje; I'll let you comment first.

Enjoy the music.

O-10:

My Finns were cooking!! Your Norwegian did not!!

The music was pleasant, soothing, and possibly even sleep inducing? I think this is called soundscape stuff. The word JAZZ just does not seem to fit in any description.

I thought of the first Star Trek Movie. A lot of visual stuff(too much really) accompanied by this type music. I got the impression it was all just filler to make the movie a certain length.

The last tune had no dynamic range, and seem to end when they just stopped playing. No beginning, no middle, no end. Also no melody. At least to my ear. This stuff is popular so i will concede it must be me. After all, 263 Norwegians can't be wrong. :)

I loved HEAT. I will have to watch it again and listen to the soundtrack. For such an intense movie I would not have thought this type music would be the soundtrack.

I have several ECM albums. Mostly Jarrett. DeJohnette seems to be on all these type albums. Is he some sort of specialist in this type music?

How did you get the 'o' thingy in Bjørnstad??

BTW, I was listening to Grieg's Symphonic Dances, when I opened your post. Norway in the air.

Cheers

Acman3:

African Jazz was a trick question! :) There is none! However, I will next comment on 'CONGO JAZZ'. The country, not the square.

I can stand this as long as you and O-10 can!

Cheers

O-10:

*****and I'm allergic to what I call "High Class Culture".*****

Well, you may call it 'high Class', but there is nothing 'high class' about it. Just a different genre of music. Of course the snobs have tried to make it their own, and keep the masses out. They are begining to see the folly of that attitude.

Cheers

Rok, I'll accept your comments for my Norwegian, and move right along.

How about a little French jazz, like "Last Tango In Paris"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl214Pq2OfU&list=PL109085F224DAAD97&index=2

Enjoy the music.

Rok, that disease you got is contagious, and I done caught it; here we are in Nam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lJ8mWe9sGY

Ain't no telling where next, maybe back to Mali.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEWd01Oe3WI

Check the little girl at about 3:28 in the black dress with pink bands around it; after watching them dance for just seconds, she's really into it. African music and dance are like meat and potatoes, you can't have one without the other.

Enjoy the music.

Rok, now we're going around the world, I don't play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bsnZcamJB0

Enjoy the music.

O-10:

The French clip was good. But the truth is, when it comes to music, there is European Classical music, American Pop, and American Jazz. Everything else, sort of pales in comparison.

I listen to this today. From CD5 of the 100 Best of the 1950's. I still reach for it often. That box set could be the only Jazz a person needs. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU1hm7KlfT8

Cheers

more better perfect with visuals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiARr9JhLEo

cheers

Everything you always wanted to know about African Jazz, and then some. I think the entire article is non-sense, but, judge for yourselves. I think that as they begin to develop and play western instruments, the influence from America was just too much.

http://www.africanjazz.info/faq.html

These are african guys playing, but is it really African Jazz? I will leave the answer up to our OP, who is an expert on all foreign forms of 'Jazz'. There may be better examples on youtube. More indigenous type music(jazz).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwHhKRnravs

Cheers

Rok, that sounded like "lounge music" to me, it was neither African or jazz. They can title their music anyway they wish, and I'll define it any way I wish; I choose to define what I heard as "Blah".

Enjoy the music.

The article's author uses the term "jazz" very very loosely; absurdly so. From that standpoint, I would agree that the article is "nonsense" and what he describes as "jazz" bears little resemblance to what we consider jazz. The author concedes this point:

****Generally, African jazz is much more closely related to African folk/classical music than African American jazz is****

Personally, I am not very bothered by the appropriation of the name "jazz" because I understand that for many (especially outside America) the term jazz refers simply to a music that (just as American culture in general) is an amalgam of many cultural influences; and with a dose of the requisite element of improvisation. The main problem with this music ("African jazz") for me is that I just don't think it's very good; it's not very sophisticated nor developed. The farther it gets from the indigenous, the weaker it seems to be.

I think a key to understanding (at least conceptually) the previously discussed question of the African influence in American jazz may be found in some of this music and the search for the reverse: the influence of American jazz in African music ("jazz"?). The African influence in American jazz may be perceived as, at best, subtle to the point of insignificance if one doesn't understand cross-cultural influences in art at a very fundamental level. We tend to look for (listen) for obvious signs in order to say "aha! there's the influence"; ain't gonna happen that way.

When I listen to a clip like the one above by the South African "jazz legend" (give me a break!) what I hear is third rate or, at best, second rate "smooth jazz" as we know it here in America. BUT, there are subtle signs that let me hear a direct connection (influence) to indigenous African music and tell me these are not American musicians playing this music. There is a unique flavor to the rhythmic feel of the music as well as an "accent" in the harmonic vocabulary of the improvisations that are telltale and are obvious connections to the indigenous music of the players' culture. Unfortunately, the overall effect is, for me, not very convincing. If I were to HAVE to listen to this sort of thing there are far better examples on smooth jazz radio stations or elevators to be heard.

I don't think that "African jazz" is a good example of the state of jazz outside the USA. There is a lot of good (sophisticated and well developed) jazz happening outside America. Why there is not credible jazz happening in Africa may be the result of the overriding rhythm-centric nature of their indigenous music (almost devoid of sophisticated harmony or melody) while European music's main contribution to the amalgam of "jazz" is in the realm of harmony and melody while still containing a strong rhythmic element; although different in nature than that which was African music's main influence on jazz. So, it follows that in Europe there were fewer conceptual elements to overcome for American jazz to be a significant influence.

https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=06_uCl_Bovs

Rok, now I remember "Terje Rypdal"; he takes you to the "Misty Mid Region of Weir", that's someplace in my imagination which exists when I hear Terje. It's a place that only exists in another dimension; now you got it.

Enjoy the music.

***** I choose to define what I heard as "Blah".*****

Well, we agree. But I didn't think it rose to the level of "Blah".

There was a time when Countries and societies and Cultures developed without outside influences or interference. Those days are long gone. With communications and travel being what they are these days, the Africans, and any other Third World country, have no chance of developing any music(Jazz) that is 'purely' Indigenous. And lets not forget the influence of MONEY.

Cheers

Frogman, thanks for putting my very same thoughts so eloquently into words.

Enjoy the music.

O-10:

After viewing all your clips, it seems as if young folks are searching for something. The next BIG thing? They seem to be all over the place / map.

My question with it all is, where is the body of work? We hear just a few notes, and we know it's Morgan or Trane or Mingus. With this modern stuff, do these guys have an Identity? A style, a sound, some musical pedigree?

Suppose "Song for my Father" was the ONLY tune we were aware that Silver wrote. Trane did "Giant Steps" and was never heard from again. That's how I preceive the modern 'Jazz'. A few nice tunes here and there, but no body of work. Of course, it could just be that I need to get out more. :)

Thanks for the clips. Interesting stuff. The guy from Nam shows promise.

All this makes me treasure my CDs even more. How lucky we all are, to have been able to see and hear the Masters.

Cheers

Named in Honor of the Voodoo Priestess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7eeb1MTkUY

Check Wynton at around 4:30. he ain't blowing, he's talking!!

Cheers

Rok, our collections are a treasure indeed. Although I've been searching and not finding, it's my nature to search, and I'll continue; at least I'm finding interesting African Culture that probably existed before slavery; besides unique rhythms, each village had different dances.

You wouldn't be referring to Miles aunt, "Madam Corrine", would you?

Enjoy the music.

Cuong Vu got it right about Wynton and Miles according to me; he is preaching the gospel of Orpheus, although his music has yet to reflect the gospel of Orpheus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46T4YEyX1d8

Enjoy the music.

****You wouldn't be referring to Miles aunt, "Madam Corrine", would you?*****

The one and the same. Otherwise know as The OP's goto adviser on all things Jazz.

****"Terje Rypdal"; he takes you to the "Misty Mid Region of Weir*****

I wish I could go there.

****I'm finding interesting African Culture that probably existed before slavery; besides unique rhythms, each village had different dances. ******

There is a lot more to African history than just slavery. Let's just leave Jazz out of it.

I was thinking, Before the guys around Nawlins came up with Jazz, it did not exist ANYWHERE in the world. The next day seems as if it existed EVERYWHERE in the world. Must be one of them phenomenals.

Cheers

O-10:

*****Cuong Vu got it right about Wynton and Miles according to me;******

I agree to a point. However, in making the statement about Miles and Wynton ,Cuong Vu, kicked himself right out the musical genre called JAZZ!

Because, if he is not pushing the edge like Miles, or keeping the flame, like Wynton, what is he doing?

And when he said that Miles only succeeded to a degree, because he and his music was not as well known as the Beatles or some other rocker, I really lost respect for him. And then the comment about the Miles clip not getting 'chicks'. He is a lightweight. This boy does not understand Jazz.

He also seemed to put down 'swing' and The 'Blues' in Jazz. His musical education is lacking. I thought overall he showed great disrepect for the music and the people who play it. He won't go far. A niche player at best.

The interview changed my opinion of him. Just another noise maker in the making.

The interview should be REQUIRED watching for all Jazz lovers. It demonstrates the peril our music is really in. If he represents the future, it ain't bright!!

Cheers

Cuong Vu does not represent the future. Frankly, I am astounded that so much attention was given to a minimal talent and so much time given to his thoughts and opinions; which proved to be musically sophomoric, vapid and predictable at best. I believe that the reason that this interview even took place is nothing more than political correctness run amuck ("the Vienamese refugee who now plays "jazz"). Media manipulation is often a much worse enemy of art than artists themselves.

And please, if you dislike the trumpet so much, stop playing the damn thing!

Ok, so Cuong got 1 out of 10 right, nobody's perfect. If you even hang with a jazz musician, you have to beat women off, he must not be using the right deodorant. (I didn't say that) Talk about scraping the barrel for jazz musicians, they done it this time.

Enjoy the music.

This is the best current jazz I've been able to find; I'm looking forward to your critical analysis of this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgKMdqSUkKc

Enjoy the music.

Jazz in the Land of the Rising Sun.

These folks are great at taking foreign things and ideas and making, or doing them even better. Did they succeed in Jazz?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_jazz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiZW9SJfVwc

I actually own this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BpQcwe4ncs

Cheers

Speaking of Vietnamese: Several weeks ago, here at FT Hood, the US Army promoted it's first Vietnamese-American to the rank of General. In the First Cavalry Division!!! How times change.

Here's a brand new album that just came out (strange name) where's he from? His mama dressed him funny too. (Rok, made me do it.) Ulf's music is quite interesting, I think it could stand more than one listen; what do you think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t17xCUqPf6k

That Japanese jazz was too stereotypical for me, it sounds like something I've heard a thousand and one times.

Enjoy the music.

*****That Japanese jazz was too stereotypical for me, it sounds like something I've heard a thousand and one times.***

No kidding? It could be because they imitate very well. But I am determined to push on. After we circumvent the globe, you might come to agree with me, that Jazz, nowadays, only has two legitimate sources, The US and Cuba. Most of the rest, is just soundwave generation.

Cheers

The Youn Sun Nah clip was great. Really enjoyed it. BUT, the visual part was crucial to enjoying it. Not so sure I would like an entire CD of her. But watching and hearing her do her thing was great.

A duet with Bobby McFerrin would be very interesting. Throw in Jon Hendricks and we would have a BIG BAND!!

Cheers

The Ulf Clip:

Nice playing. My problem is, I just can't form a mental picture of this type performance. I can SEE Mingus and Miles etc... along with hearing them. I guess you like him because, along with you and Spike Jones, he shares the same tailor.

Cheers

Today's Listen:

Lest we forget what the real thing sounds like. When Oscar brings his A-game, he is without peer. This CD, is his A-Game. "Cleanhead" plays Alto only. No vocals. :(

Oscar Peterson -- OSCAR PETERSON+HARRY EDISON+EDDIE"CLEANHEAD" VINSON

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCX7oHbyNVU

Ellington & Basie -- DUKE ELLINGTON MEETS COUNT BASIE

I have had this one a while. Just received a SACD copy. The Basie and Ellington playing together. What else is there to say? Priceless banter during the recording session!! Also the pictures in the booklet are wonderful.

Can there be a better job in music than playing Trumpet in the Ellington or Basie Band????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLaxVQvwcOI

Cheers

The problem with "current" jazz is that somebody defined what jazz had to sound like in order for it to be "jazz", and that's what shot the horse in the leg. "You know what they do to horses don't ya". Who might I ask gave anyone the authority to define jazz.

When I was restricted to FM radio, and current jazz for 3 days, it sounded good the first day, not too bad the second day, by the third day I wanted to throw the radio out the window; that's because the 3rd day sounded too much like the first day. Maybe the guy who defined jazz does not have the required originality to come up with something new that sounds good himself.

While I stated one problem with current jazz, it suffers from the same problem as the entire globe has "not enough money". I also find that when an individual's personal financial situation is secure, he can't understand other financial situations that are not secure. More people are on wobbly financial ground than at any time in my life, and that's because each successive administration plays with the numbers to make himself look good, and that's been going on for 30 years.

No, No, No, I absolutely do not want to go into a debate about these things, it's just that my mind went from one thing to another; kind of like "Dis, Dat, and De udder"

In regard to your current picks, while Oscar Peterson is Mr. piano, he always played too many notes for me, besides that, I'm in the "Hard Bop" camp; never the less I'm also a a big "Clean Head" fan, saw him live, and that was when people went to a night club to see one of his favorite jazz musician.

Duke Ellington and Count Basie were just too much for words. Although I was never a big band fan, I got to have that; it's on order. For me, it captured a time gone by when I was too young to go to night clubs, and when I heard something like this on the radio, I wanted to speed time up, now I want to reverse it.

Enjoy the music.

Ulf Wakenius (Sweden)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vie9JAEn9HA

Martial Solal (France)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W5vGEYcchHg

Enrico Rava (Italy)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn2jtfDxtLo
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1kVsPCOSK2E

Peter King (England)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4ONRiILAp4I
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KckCnEHoD5g

Tete Montoliu (Spain)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hfj8Ks9pU3s&list=PLF6F365A48456A794
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o1WGZVYxXkU

Arild Anderson (Norway)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7t8pbpowPBA

Bobo Stenson (Sweden)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BPTS2SSTGrg

Tomasz Stanko (Poland)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H51xGk0lMwk&list=PL4976F3C1B767450C

Chris Hogwood died yesterday. Some of the oldest CDs I have, are of him conducting The Academy of Ancient Music. Mozart Symphonies. Another one that I was introduced to by Stereo Review.

Cheers

Arabian Jazz:

I guess all things are possible.

Interesting read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_music

She tries to distance herself, and her music from the West(USA), while playing it. Very amusing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuj8lrE-9Qs

Not bad. At least it sounds Mid-Eastern. Mostly.:) And they do have a sax player.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETpmy_UFdzc

Cheers

****it's just that my mind went from one thing to another; kind of like "Dis, Dat, and De udder"****

It's call Attention Deficit Disorder.

O-10, after reading your post I am not sure what Jazz 'camp' you are in. Are you saying current Jazz is too inclusive, tolerant and accepting, or not inclusive enough?

You are welcome to join Wynton and me, at "Save Our Music"!!:)

Cheers

Rok, although I'm overwhelmed at the offer of an invitation to join you and Wynton, since the music did quite well before you and Wynton decided to save it, I don't think my help will make much difference; however, I'll consider this an official invitation and frame it.

Enjoy the music.

I took the horse to the water, but he did not drink; that's because he was a Roking horse, and Roking horses don't drink.

Enjoy the music.

Well, just keep on pushing those soundwave folks. The day will come when Real Jazz will no longer be available, and the Soundwave Police will have confiscated all your Jazz collections and melted them down.

When that day comes, don't come running down here to my Jazz Bunker, begging for a few bars of Basie, or a couple measures of Miles.

Don't come running to the Rok then!!

Let's allow Miss Nina to tell it. She tells it so good!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH3Fx41Jpl4

Cheers

Roking Horse. Not bad. :)

****In regard to your current picks, while Oscar Peterson is Mr. piano, he always played too many notes for me,*****

That puts him right up there with Mozart!! Not bad company.
I guess some players don't consider 'silence' to be part of the music. Miles did.

Cheers

What we always wanted to know, but were afraid to ask. Now we know.

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/music_box/2009/08/kind_of_blue.html

Cheers

I have a somewhat different take on the reason that KOB is so great.  No doubt, KOB helped usher in modal jazz, but first of all it is neither Miles' most important record nor his best.  I have always felt that one of the main things that made KOB such an important and popular recording is that it is so ACCESSIBLE.  Who can argue with its wonderful relaxed grooves, catchy but extremely simple melodies and fantastic playing?  It has probably introduced more listeners (certainly audiophiles) to jazz than any other record.  It is, no doubt, a great record; but, while I would never call it overrated, I think that there are many "better" jazz recordings.

Fred Kaplan (the author of the article) tries very hard to portray "modal jazz" as a revolutionary movement within jazz that presented players with new challenges.  It was, and it did; in a way.  Unfortunately, he also implies that the more traditional chord-based improvisation was (is) somewhat less of a challenge for players.  The suggestion that "being able to flollow the tune" within a traditional chord-based tune is somehow an indication of an "easier" or less sophisticated vehicle is absurd.  The whole truth is that modal jazz is, in most respects, an infinitely simpler framework for jazz players to work within with it's infrequent harmony changes and repetitiveness.  Sure, that kind of framework presents it's own challenges to improvisatory creativity, and it is also true that the frequently moving (changing) harmony of a traditional song structure can, in a way, be used by the player as a "crutch" since it does, in fact, "take you by the hand".  However, to instantaneously create an interesting and dynamic melody, and without resorting to cliches, within the framework of complex harmonic changes is an infinitely greater challenge than what most of modal jazz presents the player.

KOB is a great record; like a perfect hamburger.  Aged sirloin, anyone?:

https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=kufiFzdrX-0

Fred Kaplan--

****He often writes about jazz and hi-fi equipment for Stereophile.*****

*****It has probably introduced more listeners (certainly audiophiles) to jazz than any other record.*****
This alone makess it suspect.

***** From 1978 to 1980, he was a foreign and defense policy adviser to Representative Les Aspin.*****
The worst Sec Defense in American history.

I guess I should have done a wiki on this guy before I posted. If he writes for Stereophile, and was involved with Les Aspin at DoD, I would not have posted it.

I guess he is another Anthony Cordesman. Jack of all trades, master of none.