Jazz for aficionados
Schubert, not too long ago, there were no LP's or CD's by Ike available. I got a store owner to make a tape from his LP. After that, no CD's were available, I had to pay $35. for an LP, when I wasn't even into vinyl. As you can tell, I'm 100% into Ike Quebec; I just wanted you to know how the music world goes in circles. Enjoy the music. |
Ike Quebec died January 16, 1963; "Heavy Soul", my favorite album by Ike was recorded November 26, 1961, although it was not released until 62. I've forgotten my source, but they had gotten the news that Ike had lung cancer when they recorded this; listen at how sad, but beautiful, Freddy Roach's organ sounds on almost all the cuts. Can you imagine them recording this album with the knowledge Ike wouldn't be with them much longer. It's impossible for something like that to not come through in the music; listen for it on your copy. I purchased the album at the end of the summer in 62, I know this because I recall "Heavy Soul" coming on like a cool breeze at the end of a hot summer day. This was an album I played repeatedly for a long time; especially during the winter of 63. Enjoy the music. |
O-10: I thought a one-worlder like yourself, would like these. I am almost certain you have heard them before, but they are worth a second listen. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us-TVg40ExM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lz6d60ysb-Y http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgWFxFg7-GU The entire CD is good. Comes with a DvD. But more tunes on the CD. Cheers |
Hi O-10 - my point is that all professional musicians must have a variety of equipment to listen to music on quite early in life (while students). A healthy percentage will have at least good mid-fi equipment, figuring since they have to have something, might as well get something at least decent. I had most of the mid-fi system I mentioned before I graduated college (and how I wish I had bought many more records back then, sigh). Again, this percentage would be quite a bit higher than in any other profession (quite often, the main concern of music students from my generation and earlier and long after, when choosing a living space, was where were the speakers going to go - some settled for bookshelves, or just used headphones, but a great many of us had to have floorstanders). And later on, another healthy percentage of those musicians who can afford it will also go on to purchase high end equipment, at a higher rate than non-musicians. A musician's priorities in choosing what equipment they use are often quite different from most "audiophiles," but a large number of them, no matter what kind of music they play, love to have great sounding systems to listen to when they are not working. There is a perception here on this board in particular that musicians do not care about or understand high end audio - not only is this simply not true, it really doesn't make much sense when you think about it. Why this untruth is so widespread here despite being contradicted by every actual musician on this board is a continuing mystery to me, and a fascinating one. I have several different theories, but this is not the place for them. You asked what I was talking about - I have answered. Now let's get back to the jazz. As I said, this is the best thread on any audio forum on the web - I have learned a great deal and been exposed to many players I had not heard before. You are to be commended for starting it, sir! |
Learsfool, I'm listening to "The Film Music of Bronislaw Kaper", played by the composer, in celebration of what I learned from you. Two of my favorite tunes by him are; "Invitation" and "Green Dolphin Street". While Miles with Bill Evans is my favorite version of "On Green Dolphin Street", there are so many versions of "Invitation" I like, that I would prefer you choose your favorite version. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nic4lb02ANw Enjoy the music. |
****Why this untruth is so widespread here despite being contradicted by every actual musician on this board is a continuing mystery to me, and a fascinating one. **** A couple of related untruths are the idea that musicians (any genre) don't listen to recorded music and that most audiophiles don't really care about music; nothing could be further from the truth. Musicians listen to a lot of recorded music; and, while some audiophiles (equipment geeks) are, in fact, clueless about music, most that I have known are music lovers. One of the reasons that these ideas get promulgated is, ironically, the emotional power of the very music they love which sometimes keeps many avid listeners from being able to see the middle ground (the gray) of so many of these issues. It can cause a tendency to want things to be entirely one way or the other; to make things the "best" or the "worst"; to become very polarized and overreact when a criticism is expressed by someone about a particular favorite recording. The KOB/SE debate was a perfect example of this. Two of the acknowledged greatest jazz recordings; yet, so much arguing about which was "better" when the dissenting voice (me) made it very clear from the start that both were great, but only in one or two specific areas was one considered somewhat better than the other while never declaring one as superior overall. Unfortunately, when hearing one listener say that X drummer sounds a little sloppy compared to Y drummer, instead of listening to the two examples and trying to hear what is being said, the focus becomes: "oh, he thinks X drummer is no good" and the fact that there are musically important stylistic differences between the two is missed. The strong emotional response that music can have in a listener causes a tendency to "see" artists as dealing only with the emotional realm and to resist the idea that essential elements for artists to be able to reach that emotional realm and express their artistic vision are things that listeners sometimes perceive as very mundane and unemotional: study, practice or listening to recordings; things that can be misconstrued as not being in keeping with the mistaken idea that creativity is only the result of the calling of the artist's "muse". Most listeners would be amazed and their heads would spin at how much "technical" speak goes on in musicians' conversations (yes, even jazz musicians), wether it be about equipment, practice techniques, recordings that they are studying and analyzing, as well as musical issues at a level of subtlety that may seem incomprehensible. Music lovers tend to want their favorite artists to be "above the fray" of the mundane; truth is, they are people too. |
Frog," upon reflection" ,my answer is most of us do not become anywhere near as good as we can be so we make others better than they are as a projective compensation. If you don't look death square in the face without blinking on a daily basis you will conserve your energy as if you will need it for your 150th birthday bash. There is no day but this day, no minute but this minute. |
Orpheus10, the Ike Quebec LP i scored at Goodwill is "With A Song IN My Heart", Blue Note Classics LT-1052 , a 1962 Rudy Van Gelder production. It must have been near his last, if not his last, recording. It is the best Jazz LP I have ever heard, both in sound and performance. My copy appears unused, in any event not a tick or pop on it ! I paid $1.50 for it, it would have been a bargain at 50 bucks. |
Good story before I forget{again}. Years ago I saw the talented country banjo and guitar player, Roy Clark, best known as the host on the long-running TV show "Hee-Haw" and member of the County Hall Of Fame appear on a late-night show, I disremember which. Roy had had a drink or seven and it showed, the host brought up that Roy trained as a Classical and Jazz guitarist and asked Roy why he was now a country player. Roy said, " because it pays better and you have to be real good to play off-tune all the time'. |
Frogman has written another excellent post! @Schubert - I'm pretty sure that Mozart never actually said that. That line comes from the play/film Amadeus, and in my opinion that attitude (promoted by the character of Salieri, mainly) is one of the worst things in it (I love the film, despite it's major historical inaccuracies, and the soundtrack is great). Yes, Mozart was unbelievably talented; but he worked damn hard at his craft, and THAT is why his music is so great. There are SO many talented music students that get by for a while on their natural talent, but once they figure out how hard they really have to work to actually have a career, they fall by the wayside. No matter how much talent you may have, you still have to put in the work if you want to be truly great, and a VERY great deal of that work is very mundane indeed, as Frogman pointed out. And it is daily work, and continues throughout your entire career. Some people don't like athletic analogies to music, but they are very apropos here - just like an athlete must do their daily exercises and stretches, etc., the musician must do the same. And we work with much weaker muscle groups (especially the wind players like Frogman and myself) that have to last for much longer careers. |
Shall we Tango? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FDXPYE0nVw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdSreoOun9s Enjoy the music. |
I agree with you totally Learsfool and have said so many times. I referred to Mozart only. Yes, "Amadeus" was a wretched movie but I read Mozart's comment many times in both English and German long before that. Look at a uhr Mozart score in Salzburg, there are no corrections on great scores that were written in 15 minutes. A long career is a choice you make but not the only choice available. |
****Yes, Mozart was unbelievably talented; but he worked damn hard at his craft, and THAT is why his music is so great**** "People err who think my art comes easily to me. I assure you, dear friend, nobody has devoted so much time and thought to compositions as I. There is not a famous master whose music I have not industriously studied through many times." - WA Mozart |
Ok, he wrote it in his head and then wrote it out. I would not believe any human who said "nobody" in any context . One about there can be no dispute is Schubert. There are testament after testament of him leaving the room and coming back 10 minutes later with a Masterwork Lieder in hand.If Beethoven had died at the same age we would have his 1st Sympohony. Schubert did 9 and trios, quartets, quintets,sonatas and Masses as fine as any written. Not to mention the heart of him, 700 + lieder . The best teacher in Vienna at the time said of the 9 year old Schubert , every thing I teach him he already knows, I learn more from him than he from me. "God is his teacher" . Schubert did say it just came to him,my only point is there are a dozen or so outliers in human history for whom there is no explanation save divine intervention. |
Speaking of the Tango… From one of my guilty pleasure recordings. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1uNIXdEN1U Also found this, from the same recording http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GwK7jKW5B4 |
Schubert, I completely agree about Schubert; no other explanation for possessing a gift such as his was. Same can be said of Mozart and there is no dispute about that. It's difficult to understand what goes on in mind of such incredible ability. I suspect that his comment meant that as prodigious and accelerated as his output was, so was his ability to work at and hone his craft. |
O-10, as Schubert said: beautiful! Love tango. Acman3 beat me to it by posting music by Piazzola; thanks to both of you for the clips. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oB-RS000NLs |
Frogman, My favorite composers are Bach, Mozart, Schubert and Brahms. IMO. and it is essentially a mystical one , is that Bach and Mozart, while not egoists, did have one. Schubert was the very soul of humility , God was able to use him as a direct instrument. Perhaps only Bruckner rivals Schubert in that regard. Bach and Mozart were infused by him. Brahms agrees with me. |
Hi Schubert - we do mostly agree. Yes, Mozart and Schubert wrote a few compositions in a very short amount of time. This has much to do with the fact that every musician back then had and used much more improvisational skills than most of us do today, with the exception of some jazz musicians and baroque/classical keyboard players. However, I can assure you that neither Mozart or Schubert wrote an entire symphony "in his head" and then wrote it down afterwards. A theme, yes, a short lieder, yes, a simple dance movement for piano such as a minuet, yes, a large multi-movement composition, no. In other words, anything they wrote out that quickly was essentially an improvisation. There are some excellent books out there that speak of Mozart's and Schubert's compositional processes. Both men would work incredibly long hours, with very detrimental effects on their health (that part of the movie Amadeus is very accurate). They were two of the hardest working composers in history, especially when their too too brief lifespans are considered, as Frogman mentioned. I have said in these forums before that I consider the death of Mozart to be the most tragic early death in the history of all the arts, not just music. You mentioned Bruckner, also a favorite of mine. He was very famous for his improvisations at the organ, none of which he wrote down afterwards, unfortunately for posterity. According to many contemporary accounts, some of them were better than the solo organ works that he did write down. The same goes for J. S. Bach, though of course in his case, everything he wrote down was pretty much a masterwork. Bruckner took much more time to develop as a composer than the others you mentioned. What he became a master of was the extension of long forms, which of course could not be improvised, hence the longer developmental period in his case. He was another workaholic, like pretty much all truly great artists. |
"Jazz does the Tango", is the title of our new segment. Come with me to my new life; I'm now in my mid twenties, and Tango was in my blood since birth. For every man there is a woman, where is she, where is the one for me, where is my Tango lady? Find the one, and you will find the sun. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0pYkIVHP44 My "Tango Lady" must sing a song of love; it's for certain this is a song of love, and she wrote it; but can she dance? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIJZSs2gxdo This is the ultimate "cerebral" Tango; my Tango lady must be able to do this one as well; it's done on a rainy afternoon, at a sidewalk cafe overlooking the park, seated at a table for two. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9lfdx-h6u0 Now it's time to Tango, like the last Tango ever in life; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lAKlYTQVKY Where is she? My fantacia Tango lady who will dance me to the end of love, to the end of life? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWCmubP5h9c Enjoy the music. |
Hey Rok, here's where Don Cherry paid Miles aunt Corrine a visit; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bF5yqfaYVw Enjoy the music. |
O-10: I guess I spoke tooo soon. After getting excited over Salvant and Porter coming into the Jazz family, seems as if we just lost a giant. The latest Issue of Down-Beat reviews the latest CD from Dr John. Seems as if he has "replaced his New Orleans-Based band, with a Sarah Morrow led group dubbed The Nite Trippers". Two questions, why would an Icon of Nawlins music replace a New Orleans-based band, and Who, and WTF, is Sarah Morrow? The clips on Amazon do not bode well. Better get his old stuff while you can. This is an outrage. And then he had the nerve to name the CD "The Spirit of Satch". The entire magazine, which I don't read very often, will just brings tears to the eyes of any Jazz fan. Real Jazz, that is. My, how the art has fallen on hard times. Lots of quanity. Little to no quality. If you just read the track list you would be very impressed. Great tunes, and Guests, from the Blind Boys of Alabama to Arturo Sandoval to Shemekia Copeland. A different guest on each track. But, the arrangments tell the story. Can you imagine Dr John backed by Lawrence Welk?? Sad day in Nawlins!! Who or what is at work here? Miles' aunt or Marie Laveau??? Cheers |
I may owe Rok an apology. I listened to a few cuts of the Dr. John CD and what I heard was, at least on first listen, not good. I will have to hear more latter. Seemed more "old school" than "modern." Ms. Morrow has a strong background and praise from Curtis Fuller cannot to be overlooked. I will have to keep an eye on her. |
The Learsfool: (Our resident Brass guru). In the latest issue of GRAMOPHONE, in the obituaries, is listed the Principal Trumpet player of The LSO. He was Principal for 25 years. Killed in an auto crash. Before the crash he had excperienced health issues and had asked to be assigned to the Third Trumpet chair. No action had been taken before his death. My question is, if his request had been granted, would all the trumpet players just move up one chair? Would they look for another principal? Paganini: Some time ago we discussed "playing all the notes in a piece by Paganini". I think you and The Frogman said it could be a matter or taking all the repeats, or not. Well the magazine returns to Paganini, and this time what they mean is clear. Apparently many condutors and/or players just cut out certain portions of the music. In a performance by Michael Rabin, 151 bars are cut or deleted.. The article implies there is no rhyme or reason. So if you want to hear every note of Paganini do your research. Speaking of brass: Just received a copy of Dvorak's "New World". Wiener/Karajan. Brass galore!! Outstanding recording! How great, if any, is the ability between the Principal players and the others members of that section, in an Orchestra. Esp the Brass players. Cheers |
Frogman, this is so beautiful; it's about musicians from different parts of the world coming together in "Bombay", and creating new music. What is that instrument Caroline, the lady in the cap playing? I've liked these musicians individually for quite awhile now, since this was done some years ago, we get to see the outcome. I'm looking forward to your creative musicians analysis of this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFb9-lik2cg Enjoy the music. |
Does anybody remember "Les Baxter"? Honest to God, I really believed this is the way music sounded in all of those faraway places with strange sounding names when I heard Les Baxter. I just thought this would be a good nostalgia trip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTwwnEggw24 Enjoy the music. |
Hi Rok - those are some good questions. As far as the LSO situation, that is always a complicated issue. First of all, if he even asked to be moved down to third, that probably means that there was already a third trumpet opening, or there was about to be. Otherwise, there would already be someone playing that job, and it wouldn't be available to him. That would be my guess. And yes, if he moved down, then they would be auditioning for a new principal. There is probably no implication in your article you mentioned that "there is no rhyme or reason" for the cuts - there would have to be some rhyme and reason for it, as is not simply a matter of cutting out part of it, the result has to make musical sense. There could be any number of reasons for making cuts - length being one (for fitting it onto the recording); the artist feels that part of the piece is not as good as the rest, and so cuts it out; the artist cuts out a part that is particularly difficult for them (though this would not be the case with Michael Rabin, who was world class), or other reasons. Sometimes composers give options, too, I believe those Paganini caprices have optional sections in them. Other times there are different versions of the same work by the composer, for instance there are at least three different revisions of Stravinsky's ballet, the Firebird. Often conductors will put together a suite consisting of parts of each version. This happens often with Bruckner symphonies. As far as differences between the principal and other members of their sections, this of course will vary greatly from orchestra to orchestra, because of several reasons - age, experience, actual ability, etc. There are many factors - for example, in the horn section, different positions require different skills. For instance, the first and third horn players are "high horn" players, and the second and fourth horn are "low horn" players (think of the horn section as two pairs, first and second are a high/low pair, third and fourth are a high/low pair - in the days before valves were invented, these two pairs would have been in different keys, to give the composer more note options). The fourth horn player in particular is not expected to have as good of a high register as the first and third horns, but is definitely required to have a very good low register, much better than the high players. The differences are not quite as great in the trumpet section, though they also exist there as well. The principals are paid more, as they are the leaders and do play most of the solos. But as far as actually being better, while they are much of the time, this is not always true. When I first joined my orchestra twenty years ago, it just so happened that several of the second players in the woodwind and brass sections were actually better overall players than their principals, though this is not the case any more, with turnover over the last two decades. In any orchestra, there is a probationary period of one or two years. Anyone winning an audition that turns out not to be up to the required level is let go after this period. If they are up to the level, then they are tenured. So the main point I would actually like to emphasize in answering this question is that anyone in a major orchestra, no matter what part they are playing, is a damn good player. It is the most competitive field to get into there is, barring professional athletics and perhaps singing and acting. And in every major city, there are many free-lance musicians who are just as good as the people who actually have positions in the major orchestra in town. Knowing he will not toot his own horn, so to speak, I will go ahead and mention that the Frogman most definitely is one of these in New York, as evidenced by the fact that he gets hired to play substitute/extra with the top groups on a regular basis. He is also unique in that he has a lot of work in the jazz scene there as well - that is relatively rare nowadays. |
Learsfool: Excellent response to all my questions. Thanks. You mentioned that the principal players are 'The Leaders', does that mean they have duties other than just playing? I am sure you are correct about The Frogman. Once he comes out of his latest 'Pouting' episode, we all look forward to his continued input. Cheers |
Learsfool: Not trying to make a mountain of a mole hill, or bore you to death. I don't pretend to know much about Paganini, or follow all the author's musical reasoning, but I always thought the composer's intent was sacrosanct. This is the relevant portion of the article: CUT VERSIONS I want to hear every note Paganini wrote, which means, sadly, that several otherwise fine versions are 'hors de combat', including two by the tragic, extravagantly gifted Michael Rabin. In the score, after the opening 12 bars, a second theme is heard in D major. With Lovro von Matacic in 1954(SCH) this is ignored and a terrible cut is made of eight bars to letter A, meaning that you hear this theme for the first time not in the Tonic but in F. A further cut of 57 bars omits the first statement of the important third subject, and the music resumes just four bars before the soloist's first entry. It makes no musical sense. The cadenza is by Carl Flesch. In 1960 with Eugene Goossens, in addition to the same cuts in the opening tutti, Rabin makes another one in the last movement, which jumps from letter L to letter R, omitting 151 bars--a whole section in G major with material that is otherwise never heard again. Sadly, as far as this survey is concerned, it's 'au revoir' Rabin, who first made me fall in love with the work art the age of 12. He goes on the mention cuts by Ruggiero Ricci -- the opening tutti goes from 94 bars to 26. and another 26 bars of the finale. He mentions several more, but you get the drift. I used the term 'rhyme or reason', because no one seemed to make the same cuts. They were all different. I did Google this. It seems as if this is not just limited to Paganini. I do recall reading once, that Paganini wrote music that he felt only he, had the skill to play. Could that be a factor in all these cuts? :) Your comments will greatly appreciated. Cheers 1106 |
Just want to let others know of the absolute best straight-ahead Jazz band and label (for music in the last 25 years). They are the New York Allstars (led by Randy Sandke) and they have done amazing work of Ellington, Basie, Armstrong, Biederbeck, among others on the label Nagel Hayer. The recordings are of amazing jazz, all recorded live and the sound quality exceeds Mapleshade, Chesky, or Reference Recordings (each of which record well sonically but record second and third-rate music). Nagel Heyer, in general, is 1st rate music amazingly well recorded --- and the New York Allstars are the best of the best. |
Hi Rok - I'll address the cuts thing first. In reading what you quoted, it is obvious that in the Rabin recording, the cuts are NOT from the soloist, but from the conductor - the passages in question are in the orchestral tuttis, when the soloist isn't even playing. The writer does not know why these cuts were made, and clearly hasn't done any homework in trying to find out - you can take what he said about "no rhyme or reason" with a grain of salt. They may not be particularly good cuts, but obviously they at least work, or they wouldn't/couldn't be made. If they were made specifically for the recording project in question, it almost certainly had to do with the timings of the LP side. That would be my best guess as to why the cuts were made, something this writer obviously didn't even think of (perhaps he is reviewing a remastered recording on CD). Quite a few people would also argue that one doesn't necessarily need to hear every note Paganini wrote, since he wasn't the greatest composer, but that would be a whole different debate.....clearly every note of the solo part is heard on that recording in question, in any case. And yes, cuts are made all of the time, especially in operas and ballets, for all of the reasons I listed in my previous post and more. Opera and ballet composers in general expected their works to be cut or rearranged to suit the performers/directors. The idea of the score being sacrosanct did not even exist until the middle of the 19th century at the earliest. In the world of the symphony, really the first composer to make tons of markings in the parts was Mahler, and he was certainly the first to expect that they would all be followed very literally. In the 18th century and earlier, a very great deal was left up to the performer. To give an example from my own instrument - there are absolutely no articulation markings in the solo part of any of the Mozart horn concerti - the performer articulated the part as he saw fit, and any articulations in modern editions of them are editor's markings, not Mozart's. The performer was expected to be consistent in what they were doing, but that sort of thing was generally left up to them. Remember, in that era, the composer was pretty much always a performer writing for themselves, anyway. This is just one of many examples. There are also many other types of musical decisions that are left to the performer, for instance whether or not to repeat certain sections of music in certain musical forms, and there are raging debates on this issue among musicians to this day. That's probably a clumsy sentence, but it is a little complicated to explain. I hope this answers your question, though I realize it probably brings up several others.... |
Hello again Rok - yes, the principals of each section in the orchestra are the section leaders. They have the final say on how the section blends together, how it balances, how it articulates together, and the overall sound of the section, sometimes dictating what types of equipment will be used (some horn sections or trumpet sections or trombone sections will all play the exact same make and model of instrument). The rest of the section also always tunes to the principal as well. As a section horn player myself, my principal is my most immediate "boss," though this term is only used in jest. It is my job as a section player to follow the principal's lead. String principals do have more work to do - they have to do all of the bowing markings, making sure that everyone is bowing everything the same way. The concertmaster always does this first, then passes the bowings along to the other string principals, who make sure they work for them (meaning say the principal cellist might slightly change something because it doesn't work as well on cello as it does on violin, etc.), and then the librarians put them into all the other string players parts. The section leaders will sometimes make part assignments as well - for instance, say every piece on a particular concert only requires two horns, but there are say four players in the section - usually this program would be split among all four players, two of them playing some of them, two others the rest of them, and the principal would decide who played what, usually subject to music director approval, though most of them wouldn't mess around with it too much. Hope this gives you some idea.... |
Terrific explanations from Learsfool; thanks. ****Once he comes out of his latest 'Pouting' episode**** Rok2id, pay close attention now. I realize that understanding things that go beyond surface level are not always your forte; and, I do feel flattered that my three day absence from this thread causes you concern. But, really, was that comment necessary? I hope that you are able to see that in order to avoid (if that is what you want) the silly bickering that you often bring to the table, that it is this kind of passive aggression that puts things on the wrong track. All together now..... ha ha ha ha. O-10, will check back with some comments re your postings. Robsker, thanks for the heads up. Randy Sandke is a terrific traditional jazz player out of the Bix Beiderbeck tradition. I second the recommendation. Cheers all. |
Learsfool: Excellent Posts. Very educational. After all this, I think I will play my Paganini CDs today. I only the '24 Caprices'. One CD by Fischer, and one by Midori. I appreciate the time you took to respond in such detail. I am beginning to have a much better understanding of the workings of an orchestra. I assume you realize, that you and The Frogman have the best jobs in the world. I don't know why I was so determined to get to the bottom of the 'cuts' thingy, after all, I always get the 'highlights' versions of Operas. But I did learn something. If you ever have the time you might go a little more in depth concerning the 'bowing' of the string parts. The Frogman mentioned this some time ago, but did not get into it. If it's somethinmg that can be explained to a non-musician. Thanks. Cheers |
I found this last night while looking for Christmas DVDs. Turns out, it's by the LSO. I wonder if the Trumpet player is the one I read about in the Obit. Colin Davis' comments in the interview after the concert, concerning women in the orchestra, were very interesting. The exact same thing can be said of Women in the U.S. Military. They made/make it, a much better place. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuGSOkYWfDQ Cheers |
Hi Rok - the bowing question is very simple. I'm sure you have noticed that each section of the string family is always moving their bows together, in the same way. It is the markings that tell them what to do when that we call "the bowings." There is a symbol for a downbow, and a symbol for an upbow, and some other very standard markings for different types of bowstrokes. Sometimes the composers will call for a passage to be bowed a certain way. Basically, a downbow is stronger, meaning it has more weight than an upbow. Bowings are chosen for both musical and technical reasons, and often much time in rehearsal is spent in discussing possible changes of them, while us wind players twiddle our thumbs.... :) Seriously, a conductor will often request a change in the bowings for some musical reason, or if he/she is not that familiar with bowings (in other words, they didn't/don't play a string instrument), they will ask the concertmaster if a change would help create the effect they want in a certain passage, etc. It is the job of the concertmaster to do the bowings for any piece the orchestra is going to play, and as I said before, these are then passed on to the other string principals, who may make minor changes for their own sections. The librarians then are the ones who actually mark the bowings in all the other string player's parts. All of this is done far in advance of the first rehearsal of the program, so the music is ready for the players personal use in preparing for the program. Each orchestra's CBA will mandate how far in advance the music has to be ready and available - in most it is two or three weeks ahead of time. String parts take much longer to prepare than wind parts, precisely because of the bowings. |
Learsfool: Thanks for the usual in-depth reply. Seems as if nothing is as simple as it appears to the layman. This seems like Minnesota all over again. Ran across it while checking up on CBA's. The article does not mention the conductor. You have any idea where he stands in all this? http://www.peachpundit.com/2014/09/07/atlanta-symphony-management-fail-to-meet-cba-deadline/ Underneath all the beautiful art created or performed, lies the vulgar realities of life. The need to earn a living. Part Musical Wizards, part UAW. :) Cheers |
Hi Rok - actually, for once the music director of the ASO has come out firmly in support of the musicians. And yes, it is almost worse than the Minnesota situation, if you have read some of the unbelievable comments made by the guy that runs that arts center that owns the ASO. We are unfortunately in a period of spectacularly bad arts management right now. I hasten to add, however, that there are a great many success stories happening in the orchestral scene right now, too, though those almost never get reported. Do you know of any other business that actually trashes itself? No, I didn't think so.... |
