Jazz for aficionados

Frogman, the voices worked for me; "I can imagine a couple speeding along a narrow mountain road in their Citroen. Getz, as usual, kills on this:" I'm with you on that.

I recall a white Citroen in the movie "Diva" that would fit the bill.

Schubert, I told this story, but whatever, we go in circles.

A Sax teacher I knew 25 years ago, said at North Texas they made the classical player and Jazz players take the same bands. He said you could really hear the Jazz players individualism when playing in Concert Band, but the Concert band players, though more perfect sounding, could not improvise like the Jazz players.

Btw, we were working through a Lennie Niehaus book,"Jazz Conception for the Sax". It was a lot of fun for me, but not my dogs and cats. ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-MVbN5kNLo

Don't remember if we played Doug Watkins?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3NYIgM-pBk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF3t14zwthU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJwKQvGnzis

orpheus10,
I'm glad you liked the "Unreleased Art". There are 10 volumes and some of them have multiple discs "Blues For The Fisherman" has 4 discs and all 4 are outstanding. 

There is another 6 volume series titled "West Coast Sessions" with many great musicians on them including Sonny Stitt, Shelly Manne, and Jack Sheldon to name a few.

frogman,
Although unawares until today that Cannonball and Stan had recorded with string orchestra's, Being an Art Pepper completist I have his session with a string orchestra its called "Winter Moon" and it is a really good session. This song off of Winter Moon is another that he wrote for Laurie Pepper:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWLacnTFK1o

acman3,
Doug Watkins is a great bass player. Every time I think of Watkins I hear Art Blakey’s intro of the band live at Café Bohemia.

Quoting Art word for word:

 "On the bass all the way from motor city ladies and gentlemen, one of the youngest and finest bass players in the business today, Our Bassist Doug Watkins!...Doug Watkins!

Here's one from Art Pepper's "Blues For The Fisherman"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpTnYDDYu4E

One of the great drummers we tend to forget .
I was blessed in sitting for a hour while he practiced with a gifted young pianist who had just graduated from college and made a few small nervous
mistakes .
Joe was as sweet and helpful to her as if she was his child .
https://youtu.be/EbR8G6YNuUM?t=5

Schubert,

Could not get the Gramophone magazine with the Wynton article.  They did have the Sept issue with the always Gawjus Sophie-Mutter on the cover.   Not her front, just her back, which is just fine.

Inspired me to renew my subscriptions to Gramophone and BBC Music magazines.   I think I will get back into Classical.

The players are a lot better looking than the Jazz crowd. (more women)   Nicer also.   Seldom is heard a discouraging word.

I should be able to order the August issue.

Cheers

Plenty of room for every  thing( except rock) ,I listen to Folk Music on Saturday .
That's where a lot music started and if you can get past the beat there is often centuries of nuance awaiting you . People like Bartok ,Kodaly and others taught me that .
I'll wager August will show up if its Barnes and Noble .I've been told that Seattle and Twin Cities are where it sells best . Might not be so, whatever .

There are occasional times when only this record will do:

https://youtu.be/j-9AoEGOYZo

https://youtu.be/9yVBhdPuC8k

https://youtu.be/wbZPhLrEpxA

Thanks for the Pepper with strings, pjw.  I will check it out.

Just so frogman !



For years my late wife and I "did" Christmas in Sweden for the simple reason they do it better than anyone and without this song from Sweden’s greatest singer ............with it my soul is close to her , the ultimate reason for music .

https://youtu.be/ofKk_Etapq4?t=3
It will be here soon .

Hi Frogman - I have never really been away, but I am only on the site maybe once a week or so nowadays, sometimes less. I have been tempted to chime in many times but refrained. I am always amused to see the large number of deleted posts when I check in, lol!  I couldn't resist chiming in about Gunther Schuller and Julius Watkins, though.  I know of Chris Comer, but haven't met him.  

acman3 , I don’t doubt your North Texas story . Seems to me they have one of best music schools in the country .
As Jazz is more about the Player(s) and Classical more about the Composer, seems that is as it should be .

Thanks for the Zoltan Kodaly frogman , a great who is grossly underplayed .
. The lovely "Dances from Galanta" is all I all I ever heard live in USA .And Hungary the only place I’ve ever seen where young people are in a majority in the audience .
Anybody looking for an interesting European vacation that is not too expensive , Budapest is it .

This post is for the Clifford Brown fans.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt_fmhtePoc


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPRCH0Qomw4


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVklx4DlnoU

orpheus10,

Your Clifford Brown selections are great. Clifford is my favorite trumpeter. I have pretty much all of his recording sessions but I have not been able to locate the live version of A Night in Tunisia that you posted.

I searched around a few months ago but gave up. Maybe someone could point me in the right direction.

Well I searched Amazon again and found it. The CD price was too high so I purchase the MP3 download for 10 bucks.

If anyone else is interested here is the link:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00138HAGA/ref=dm_ty_trk%3C/a%3E

There are some very insightful comments on the You Tube link orpheus10 posted. It Appears this was a late night jam session in Philly that was recorded and the personnel beside Clifford was probably together for the first and only time just this one night. Besides Clifford Brown there was Billy Root (tenor sax), Sam Dockery (piano), Ace Tisone (bass), Ellis Tollin (drums

This is a must have for Clifford fans. I will listen to the MP3 later and check out the sound quality.

Good work pjw; I have a lot of "Chico Hamilton" records that I can't even find on "you tube". Make sure you don't buy compressed CD's of hard to find records, they're worthless.


I'm glad you're enjoying Clifford.

Speaking of Billy Root, I’ve got this Benny Green record with both Gene Ammons and Billy Root as sidemen, but I can’t tell Root from Ammons; maybe Frogman can help us?

Yo Frogman, can you help us?


    
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZyFKfPyi6Q

Sure.  Nice cut with a great slow shuffle groove.  Could tell immediately it was Gene Ammons playing the first tenor solo.  Robust tone with that distinctive bit of nasal quality and unique way of articulating notes.  Now, right back at you (all):

Apropos the recent discussion of Classical music, what popular Classical piece does Jug quote at 3:07?  Hint: by a Russian composer.

Flight of the Bumblebee

Rimsky-Korsakov

Cheers

Rok, I'm listening to Carmen, and I think you got the worst record she ever recorded. On the records I have, her voice is seductive, and she's beautiful;


  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SAq1Lg5Aak


  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qnyaZQELxk



She's singing those songs for me when she was looking her best.

I have no problem in doing all kinds of magical time shifts when I'm listening to Carmen.

We have a winner!  Well done.

***** I think you got the worst record she ever recorded.*****

It wasn't her, it was Monk.   Divas should stick with Ellington, Horace Silver or Broadway   etc......

Cheers

Thanks for the Bob Sheppard clips, acman3.  Great LA studio guy.  One of my favorite current saxophone players and one of the few Michael Brecker influenced tenor players who brings just enough of his own stuff to not sound like a caricature of Brecker.  Very good alto player also.  Lead alto in Bob Mintzer’s big band.  I‘ll be picking that record up. 

https://youtu.be/8tJ0oRPWFhg

https://youtu.be/uxJ1GxJrNWc

Rok, I know you're right.

For rok, O-10 or any other vets .
This must be a one-off , can’t even imagine this !Got to me .
https://youtu.be/54W22gT7-R8?t=2

Schubert,
That war and it's aftermath evokes just one emotion, Sadness.
When my Mom was in her 90's, she moved to Dallas to live with her daughter, my sister.  Of course the first order of business was to find the closest  Baptist church.

She became close friends with a fellow church member who had lost her only child in Nam.   She had a Texas Drawl as big as Texas.  Her whole life revolved around all things associated with veterans and the military.   She attended all the functions of the VFW and American Legion.   She tended the graves of veterans placed flowers on memorial day, and things like that.   These activities were the sole focus of her life.  After 40+ years, she could not step pass his death.   I think about her often.

Most wars have some good things to celebrate.   I can't think of any in the case of Vietnam.   That entire lousy country was not worth the life of even one American Soldier.

Very moving Clip.

Cheers

Rok, we're both veterans, and it's rare that veterans tell the truth about war.

Wars are fought for the benefit of the military industrial complex, we no longer even live in a "Democracy"; the one percent who are part of "deep state" run everything.

acman3 thanks for the Bob Sheppard links. I have been listening to many other Sheppard songs on You Tube since 5am this morning.


I have none of his recordings but will start now. I found this one which is lead by the pianist David Kikoski with Sheppard on the sax:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOcDw3Atd60&list=OLAK5uy_k4NZKzSqOop-hxcQENRIXVAC1DxJS7z4E&i...

The album is titled "From The Hip"

The rest of the songs on the album can be found using the above link. A really good session.

orpheus10,
I think Carmen McRae has a fantastic voice. I have the 3 disc set titled "Carmen McRae A Collection Of Her Finest Decca Recordings 1955 - 1958" and "Live At The Flamingo Jazz Club" along with a twofer disc "Take 5 with Dave Brubeck" and "Live At Sugar Hill"

rok, Schubert, and orpheus10,
My father, born in 1919 and passed away in 2009 was a veteran of WWII and it had affected him for the remainder of his life. He served in the 25th Infantry Division - Tropic Lightning and relieved the USMC on Guadalcanal.

After the combat on Guadalcanal he was hospitalized for combat fatigue. He started to drink heavily and spent a lot of time in military jails for drunkenness and disorderly public conduct. After striking a superior he never saw combat action again. He did get an Honorable Discharge.

After the war he was an alcoholic until 1966 when I was 3 years old my mother gave him an ultimatum - quit drinking or I’m divorcing you. He went to a V.A. hospital for 2 weeks for detox and then attended AA meetings and never picked up another drink until he died. He never spoke of what happened over there on the Solomon Islands.

When I was entertaining thoughts of joining the military after high school he strongly disapproved and I never went in. This was in 1980. He was a regular in anti - war rallies and protests.

25th I.D. https://www.armydivs.com/25th-infantry-division

pjw, for some great Bob Sheppard in a Rock (sort of) bag check out Steely Dan’s album “Two Against Nature”; especially the tune “West Of Hollywood”. Very extended solo and he doesn’t run out of ideas.

O-10, you’re welcome.

https://youtu.be/iIjKV1M8kqM

Back on the subject of great orchestrators. Probably Thad Jones’ best known composition:

https://youtu.be/-M2ADUgffFE

And speaking of a great shuffle beat and big band drummers. A big band drummer who many consider to be one of the very best. Understated; kind of like the Freddie Green of drummers. Unique cymbal sound:

https://youtu.be/mwwu0WPpPw0

I don’t like to repeat posts, but I just love this clip.  Jerome Richardson composition, but Thad arranged it:

https://youtu.be/4ZLvqXFddu0

rok,Wasn’t worth the life of several million innocent Asians either .
0-10 ,  Eisenhower made one of the greatest speech's in US History and nobody listened .

Thank you Schubert; Amen to that.

Frogman, 
Bob Sheppard confirmed what I said about LA when I was out there; Musicians made a good living in the town at that time.

I had no idea this had ended.

Thad Jones, Mel Lewis Band .
Drum class begins at 2: 27
https://youtu.be/U9_O9a1kGt4?t=3



https://youtu.be/-yDLVCrBRsU?t=6

When Bob Brookmeyer changed the sound of Thad Jones with his brilliant charts that moved away from swing without totally deserting it .

Jazz is very popular in Finland and so is Brookmeyer. The leader is saying the modern path is here .

https://youtu.be/hNJULVNolRM?t=4

Thanks, acman3, never heard of this interesting stuff before . The "wild" is apt .

I visited the one in Luxembourg.  Patton is buried there also.   Remember, these are just the ones that were not returned to the U.S.   Most were.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omd9_FJnerY

Cheers

How can I think about music, when the very best musicians can't make a living in a place where I said they could always make a good living?

rok , At a meeting for Bn Plt.Sgts got to taking , more than you might think
expressed they would just as soon get the eternal fox hole where they fell with their with their boots on .I think Patton got it for uttering that "wrong enemy", too close to Pearl among other things .

O-10, don’t despair too much. Let’s bring some perspective to this issue:

Bob Sheppard didn’t say that he, or the best musicians in LA (or NY) can’t make a living. What is true, and what I believe he said, was that they are not nearly as busy in the studios as they once were; they are not making as nice a living. The “best” musicians, in a sadly shrinking scene, will always make a living. I assure you that Bob Sheppard is still making a nice living. Of course, it depends on what one considers a “nice living”. For perspective:

Do you know what a top studio musician was earning each year during the heyday of the LA and NY studio scene (pre about 1990)? Several hundred thousand a year. Second and even third tier musicians would earn at least a couple hundred thousand. Fast forward to the present. A guy like Sheppard, while not as busy as he once was in the studios will now supplement the previously steady studio work by doing clinics and making solo appearances on records like the Steely Dan record that I mentioned as well as his own projects. I doubt that Sheppard earns less than $175K to $250K a year.

There was a time in NYC when the concert master of the NY Philharmonic quit his high paying job with the Phil because he could earn much more in the studios. That doesn’t happen anymore. During the heyday of the big band era there was so much work for musicians that it is fair to say that there were a lot of mediocre players earning a living in music.

In LA there is a relatively small group of “the best”, and they are incredible musicians, who play all the movie dates and are still earning a lot of money. Of course, what all this also means is that the pool of “the best” becomes smaller and smaller; ergo, more and more competitive and very very difficult to break into that scene. As Sheppard points out, they are MOSTLY symphony players. Why? Because for the music that they are required to play on all those John Williams (and others) scores, they are “the best”. As Schubert pointed out, in Jazz it is about the players and their individuality. In Classical, which is what most of those movie scores are mostly like, it is about the composer and the score. The truth is that the best Classical players are better INSTRUMENTALISTS than most Jazz players. They sound better on that type of music and they save the producers money because they need to do fewer takes; they are more accurate. Of course, Jazz soloists are sometimes needed and that is when someone like Sheppard comes in. It is true that as a result of all this many of the third tier players do scuffle to make a living. The best are ok.

Enjoy your music.