Jazz for aficionados

***** I had a good job and didn't save a nickel, plus that, I wish I could do it all over again.*****

Your Honor, the people rest.

Cheers

Not meaning to put too fine a point of the (non)issue, it should be noted that this is certainly not the first time that two entirely different tunes by two different composers have had the same title. With that in mind, I fail to see what is contentious about these two different tunes sharing the name “Moanin”. I do completely agree that Bobby Timmons’ “Moanin” is the more important and admired of the two; although, obviously there are two “Moanins”. Timmons’ “Moanin” is a true Jazz standard and a Jazz composition of the highest order for specific and demonstrable reasons. For anyone interested:

First, from a historical viewpoint, it was one of the tunes that helped usher in the “funky-Jazz” style that took off during the late ‘50s. The recently mentioned Horace Silver was another big part of that movement and one will notice certain similarities between this tune and many of Silver’s tunes. Bobby Timmons’ TUNE is actually a far more sophisticated and “complete” composition than Mingus’. It has a great and immediately recognizable melody; and very evocative, as O-10 has often pointed out. It is in classic 32 measure, AABA form. The vast majority of Jazz standards follow this form. In the spirit of what Evelyn Glennie spoke of in Schubert’s great clip, when one listens, really LISTENS all this becomes easy to hear and no formal training is necessary. AABA form and Timmons’ “Moanin”:

One hears Timmons’ great melody for 8 measures (A), then it is repeated for another 8 measures (A). Then one hears the “bridge”, a different but related melody for 8 measures (B). Then finally, one hears the first melody again for 8 measures (A). AABA for a total of 32 measures. During the improvisations this form is followed.

As exciting as Mingus’ “Moanin” is, it really is just a bass ostinato (repeated musical line) played by the baritone saxophone and with horn parts which serve as background for the extended improvisations by various soloists. Part of Mingus’ genius was using otherwise simple musical ideas in ways that would create a tremendous amount of excitement and tension/release. Others of his compositions followed a more traditional formula as used by Timmons.

Here you go, pjw; as requested:

https://youtu.be/hWOfb2gFMlo

Note that in this version of Mingus’ “Moanin” as posted by you, the “tune” (the baritone ostinato) begins on page two following Cuber’s improvised solo. On the original with Pepper, the “tune” starts right away with the repeated baritone line (no improvised solo until later):

https://youtu.be/QfSTtQd5Wew

Thank you Frogman for clearing that up, in a way that only a musically educated person could.

To that I might add, Bobby Timmons "Moanin" communicated the title of the tune to those who were down on their luck, and all they could do was "Moan".

I do not know schubert, it could be or not, haven't asked them. As for the Naval Seal weddings or any long wedding ceremony, I am not quite into that, if somebody close to me asks me to attend, will join the party because I was kindly asked to, but can't say that I will be crazy about it (but that's a nice occasion to wear beautiful dress though). The Little Neon Chapel in Vegas, starting from $39 and 15 min of ceremony would suit me more. Advanced version includes Elvis as a priest. But I am not that advanced. 

Rok, let me tell you what conservatives hate more than anything; that's when the person who moves into the new subdivision that offers homes with 3 bedrooms, 2 bath, play room. 2 car garage, swimming pool, plus subdivision security, has Black skin.

p.s.
In case anyone would look for me, you know were to find me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui0EgRsFVN8

***** let me tell you what conservatives hate more than anything; that's when the person who moves into the new subdivision ...... has Black skin.

Black folks WISH that was the reason.   And the feeling is not limited to 'conservatives'.

cheers

It's a funny thing Rok, I sold real estate, I know.

Maybe we need to try this?


https://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=Awr9FqoOxYdd80cArDeJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTIzMTM4c2s0BHNlY...

I doubt if you will find too many "purse snatchers" here in Tokyo for a multitude of reasons;


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3LpzQJ31OQ&list=RDc3LpzQJ31OQ&start_radio=1&t=52


I talked to Frank Gant, Ahmad Jamal's drummer, in Chicago, who told me they had plane tickets for Tokyo; they had to leave the states in order to make a living. He was as easy to talk to as your next door neighbor.

This is a laid back trio and interview of one of the finest jazz pianist.

This just played on the local PBS station.  "Big Band Sunday".

Pops is Pops, but the band really grabbed me.   Esp on my Polks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AVro_7bBrE

Cheers

Hank Jones:

Another great one from Mississippi.   Nice music, nice man.

Cheers

Two of the very greatest without a doubt.

Speaking of “getting along”, “nice men” and mary_jo’s “manners”.  One of the most humble, kindest and well mannered individuals to ever grace this music:

https://youtu.be/bYcFb14O32k

https://youtu.be/V2-Jl2W9XsU

Rok, here we have a new jazz musician that I know hardly anything about, but I'll bet big money that he's going to be successful;


      https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/21/fashion/weddings/a-good-combo-for-this-jazz-musician.html



Here we have a blues musician that I know a lot about; I used to see him every weekend at a club in St Louis.


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkzuJzZDFXs&list=PL-aVCoKV6XpXPP26nzUvd4RqO6qBvG5kB


I wonder what Albert would have done if he couldn't play that guitar?

Michael Brecker:

Brilliant Saxophonist. Seems to be a throughly nice guy. I don’t have anything by him as leader. He is on several as part of group.
One of my favorites is him with German Radio Band and Purdie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSqHZy3JbH4

*****Radical humility I believe is something all the greats share, whatever field of endeavour.*****

I tend to agree with this, however being of great humility in and of itself does imply greatness. Some folks are just so good they can be complete a’holes. They are untouchable and need no one. And some folks have a lot to be humble about.

Enough about nice guys, who were the real a’holes of Jazz?  And great.

Cheers

Albert King:

He is what was known as a Blues-man.   He just didn't play it, he lived it.   Like all the real ones, he had that authentic sound.

Not many, if any, left.    Another Great one from Mississippi.

Nice Clips

Cheers

The Blues:

Some folks were imprinted with that sound before they could say the word music.   It never goes away.

Cheers

The Blues:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSfqNEvykv0

Another Great one from Mississippi, maybe the Greatest.  Although I, like Howlin' Wolf the best.

Cheers

0-10 , I know what you mean about "conservatives " and well off blacks .A good black friend of mine who was is a dentist caught hell in a bottle
in a Milwaukee suburb few years ago . Had done 10 years in Navy , 6 years on carriers !

But from what I have seen most neo-conservatives have two other things they hate much worse , reality and the truth ..

Clowns to the Left of me
Jokers to the Right
here I am
stuck in the middle with the truth

Cheers

It's lonely in the middle

Schubert although I don't have a degree in sociology, I began educating myself during Kennedy's term in office; he was solving these problems, not by giving disadvantaged people money, but by making sure they had access to jobs, and even on welfare he made young ladies go to school in order that they might become employed.

Since I was the same age as those ladies, I talked to them, and they went to real classes in preparation for secretarial work.

Here in St. Louis, beginning pimps, hustlers, and other criminals traded those corners in for Blue McDonnel Aircraft badges. Besides going to jail, crime is risky business in many other ways. There is nothing like having a decent job, getting a paycheck every Friday and not having to look over your shoulder.

Since this countries founding African Americans were discriminated against; Kennedy told defense contractors, I want 10% Black employment, or no contract; think about what that did to unemployment, as well as preventing new criminals.

That was way too much progress for the South, that's why he was assassinated. Since that time divide and conquer has been the rule of politicians. Southerners who should have been voting for working people, voted for rich people until we are where we are, and there is nothing anyone can do about, all the good paying jobs are elsewhere.

WOW!!!! You should be writing for the National Enquirer.

Btw, Kennedy is the biggest myth in the world. He is only mentioned when talking to black people. I remember when everyone I in the South had pictures of King, Christ and Kennedy on the walls. What a joke. My family being the exception. :)

What did he do for black people, Nothing. He just acted like he liked them. That’s all it took. So easy.

Lyndon Baines Johnson, LBJ, did more for black people than any president since Lincoln. His problem was, he was a southern white man, so he couldn’t be the hero. So the credit went to Kennedy.

Clinton, another southern white man helped black people by cutting ’welfare’. He didn’t go far enough. Should have ended it all. The exceptions, being Blind, Cripple or crazy.

Based on what you said, we can conclude that during the heyday of auto jobs in Detroit, there were no drug dealers or thugs in Detroit. You did say they would all rather work.

Cheers

great political movie on TCM   now.

Cheers

"MOX NIX",

and with that, I return this thread to it's original purpose.


"The Jazztet" was one tight nit group; Curtis Fuller - trombone, Benny Golson - tenor saxophone, Lee Morgan - trumpet, Wynton Kelly - piano, Paul Chambers - bass.


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py7URoogRj0

"Btw, Kennedy is the biggest myth in the world...."

"What did he do for black people, Nothing. He just acted like he liked them. That’s all it took. So easy."

True. I see it that way too. Marketing.

Movie The Butler.
Although it does not end in a way how I would picture it. BO being unknown and just elected as the president (the colour of his skin does not make him instantly good) and main character being able to walk in the WH building through the main gate for the first time is just not enough to deliver the message - ok, all is well and achieved now. Clumsy closure or shall I say, little bit of marketing/politics again.

"Lyndon Baines Johnson, LBJ, did more for black people than any president since Lincoln."

You are not talking about the one that escalated the war in Vietnam, are you?

By the way, I am still in Vegas. Naturally, I spent all my money. Will work for food.

O-10 would say now: Well, all you can do now is: ’Moan’

Sorry about your dilemma Mary-Jo; if I were physically and financially able, I would come and join you.

From the very beginning, conversation on this thread has varied and I have no objection to that, but I know Frogman has wanted to limit the discussion to music.

In these times with so many bad things going on that affect young people in this country so adversely, I think we would be remiss in our responsibility to them, not to vary the topic occasionally. Maybe go down more than one track at the same time.



The only point I wanted to make in regard to JFK is the correlation between crime and unemployment. There are a multitude of problems linked to unemployment, any intelligent person can understand that.



Camden NJ The poorest city?
Camden, N.J., is the poorest city in the nation. According to figures from the U.S. Census Bureau, nearly 32,000 Camden residents live below the poverty line. For a family of four, the poverty line is an annual household income of about $22,000.Sep 21, 2012


All anyone has to do is follow the list of problems that exist in that city and they can plainly see the correlation between poverty and a multitude of problems.

When we have so many Camden New Jersey's in this country, the citizens of this country should be concerned.


I understand anyone's objection to varying the topic like this, so feel free to voice your opinion.

O-10, can’t place my opinion there, do not know how the situation is at USA, can guess though but true insight is out of my reach. Here in Croatia things has been quite different till while ago. Free health care for all, free education, lot’s of possibilities to work, etc. In some way that has changed lately plus possibilities for work got limited. Many young people are moving out of country in order to get a better paid job. I can consider myself lucky since my on-line work spreads from tourism till web development, videography, etc, etc...When you do things on-line, you are less dependent on the place of work.

"Sorry about your dilemma Mary-Jo; if I were physically and financially able, I would come and join you."
I appreciate it, but my intention was to sound ironic, you know, when people come to Vegas, they are full of expectations and dreams. Eventually many of them end up Moanin’...

"From the very beginning, conversation on this thread has varied and I have no objection to that, but I know Frogman has wanted to limit the discussion to music."

Imho, prefer mix, little bit of that, litle bit of that. This reminds me that I have to check on Michael Brecker what fro suggested and get back to work. ;--)

Wish you nice day 0-10!

The reasons that I have expressed reticence about veering away from THE STATED SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD and into some of these very complicated topics is the obvious, but mostly because many times doing so has turned ugly and I know for a fact that some of these contentious exchanges have driven some contributors off the thread. Importantly, in some cases they have needlessly colored the attitudes toward each other of some of those who have remained as demonstrated by the downright hostile comments that have been directed at each other. However, this is just one man’s feeling on the matter and everyone is obviously free to do as they see fit.

My hope is always that the many parallels between the feelings and opinions held about some of these contentious topics AND the feelings and opinions held about the stated topic of this thread (music) do not go unnoticed. Unfortunately, based on what I observe they usually seem to be. In both cases there is often a tendency to be absolutist and to make proclamations about one side of the equation or the other with a kind of arrogance that is frankly stunning. Staunch generalizations and broad statements are made, whether they be about one type of Jazz vs another or one political ideology vs another that are, first and foremost, nothing more than self serving attempts at claiming either superior insight or sensitivity to musical “soul” or, as in the case of politics and social issues, exclusive access to some sort of moral high ground. This is done while ignoring and not factoring in the obvious: that our own personal life experiences deeply color our feelings and reactions to it all. Personal experience may be a personal truth, but not truth for everyone else; and, it certainly is not anyone’s “responsibility” to make this personal truth anyone else’s. I don’t think any one of us is wise enough to try and make that be the case.

The main and most important parallel is also the silver lining in all this; and is the only real TRUTH as I see it. Just as the great art form that we discuss here continues to evolve as it always has, so has and does humanity. Some of us, because of those personal life experiences, will see and feel only the negative side and negative aspects of the evolution. We are blinded to all the real progress and positive movement that has occurred....in both cases. Personally, I think this is a shame.

Regards to all.

Frogman due to your unconcern for the problems that plague the lower middle class especially, which numbers in the many millions of people, I'm inclined to believe you live in what is equivalent to "The Gold Coast" in Chicago. Apparently there are many here on the "Gon" that qualify for the "Gold Coast", that's good, but if rich people like JFK didn't care for those who are less fortunate, this country would be in much worse shape than it is.

It's possible that living in such an environment blinds one to the horrors of poverty. Poverty is incredibly more distressing than it was when I was young. It meant living in a crappy house and not having the best clothes, it didn't mean you or your kid accidentally getting shot when you walked out your front door. The saddest part about this is the fact, I don't see any way out of such a neighborhood.

We always have a trillion dollars for war, but nothing for the poor. As everyone knows, I have cancer, which meant surgery, chemotherapy plus more doctors and exams than I can count. All of that means sky high medical bills, more than I can possibly pay. Please, I'm not asking for sympathy, or financial help, I just want you to know what happens when a person gets a catastrophic illness. Even if a middle class person had money in the bank, it all just flew out the medical window. It shouldn't be like this.



No, I haven't forgotten the original intent of the thread;


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u23Etcb-L9M


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqn3PF_DcSg

 

As someone else here often concludes:

”Your honor, the people rest”

Hah! Interesting that you should post Benny Golson, O-10. I met him just five days ago. He lives in my friend and colleague’s (also a saxophone player) beautiful co-op apartment building in Harlem. What a nice man, speaking of nice individuals in Jazz. And what a great composer. Wrote so many great Jazz standards; and all with a certain elegance and personal stamp. Thanks for that.

As an interesting aside, the Wes Montgomery tune you posted was orchestrated by the recently discussed Claus Ogerman.

Probably my favorite Golson tune. The original (first) recording:

https://youtu.be/o_XDEStRF88

A favorite vocal version:

https://youtu.be/Wy5R3vouP3M

It would be very difficult , perhaps impossible , to write a better elegy or to play same in a more eloquent and dignified manner than Byrd and Gryce .

Frogman, I found your post very uplifting; it does my heart a world of good to hear that one of my favorite jazz musicians is doing well.

Yes, I'm very aware of what a great composer he is. I remember that LP very well; don't have it presently, but I remember it.

I hope I have your favorite vocal version of "I Remember Clifford"; she's beautiful, I can't think of a better version.

My favorite by Don Byrd and company .

Not that I know much about bop ballads, but best I’ve heard .


https://youtu.be/e-JFIrsd1b4

Gorgeous! Hadn’t heard that.  The great George Gershwin.  Thanks!

Very glad you liked the “I Remember Clifford” clip, O-10.

The Song of Delilah;


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkFSM9Frx3w


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6JghaB-4-M


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIotBiSa1DE


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt_fmhtePoc

Schubert, that Byrd trumpet sounded heavenly, so did Frank Foster's tenor sax; that's the best version of that song I've heard.

A strange and mystifying experience; I was at a New Years Eve party, and the fellow sitting across from me began a conversation. It was the kind of nothing conversation one would strike up with a stranger. I responded appropriately to whatever he was talking about, but I looked into his eyes and became frightened. I looked away and began a thought conversation with myself.

The party hasn't really started, I haven't been drinking, this guy is well dressed, he's about 25, I'm not gay, but I would say the guy was even good looking. Why do I get frightened every time I look into his eyes?

He had a soft smile that never changed, he was soft spoken, but he seemed to be somewhere else when he talked. Meanwhile I'm trying to deal with something that I had never experienced before; fear, every time I looked into a persons eyes. The party was just beginning and he didn't know anyone, while I knew everyone, so I made him acquainted with some of the other guests, and avoided looking into his eyes.

The only thing I discovered about that young man was the fact that he had just got back from Vietnam. We were bringing in the year 69.

Anyone watching the Ken Burns program on Country Music?

Got me to thinking about Buddy Rich.   He trashed an entire genre of music, and more than once.   I recalled this from the Brecker posts.

*****Radical humility I believe is something all the greats share, whatever field of endeavour.*****

Cheers

Btw, he, Burns, did not forget Ray Charles.  He can not be given too much credit for his contribution to country music.

Cheers