Jazz for aficionados
One of the guys who died too young and whose music I like the best . Notice, there are some very good musicians in the band playing from the charts and this soloist is not ! https://youtu.be/WsdpXV_cS-U?t=2 |
Acman, that was written by a guy named "Gunther Schuller" and anybody whose first name is "Gunther", is suspect from the "git-go" when writing about something he says was developed by African Americans. His jazz is kind of like "Jambalya", just throw something in a pot and call it jam-bo-lya. Anytime someone throws Charles (Bird) Parker in with a bunch of other dudes, without acknowledging the significance he had on modern jazz and modern music has not a clue as to what this music became after "Bird". But you Acman, my friend and fellow aficionado, has by your submissions, given an indication that you can hear where I'm coming from. Almost every picture you see of "Bird", he has a soft smile on his face; that's not a smile; that's a smirk, it says "I'd like to see you copy this". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmRkZeGFONg&list=PLqzxGGRskMsArMdq06cOawHAbO2kBWfmD&index=2&... Some can, some can not hear the genius of Charles Parker, but it's for certain that no one can copy the genius of the man we call "Bird". |
Excellent points OP. Gunther Schuller indeed!! I suggest he stick to defining Rock music. Besides Jelly Roll Morton defined Jazz eons ago. And he should know, after all, he invented the genre. Probably a little before Herr Schuller's time. I hereby declare the band with a guy playing 'hand saw' to be progressive rock. Now we can all move on. Cheers |
schubert, I think I just googled First Cavalry Division shoulder patch, selected the one I wanted, then saved as, and then did the thingy with Audiogon. https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1AWFA_enUS764US767&tbm=isch&q=first+cav+div+shoulder+patch&backchip=online_chips:7th+cavalry+regiment&chips=q:first+cav+div+shoulder+patch&usg=AI4_-kSQ1r4-QjJYChFb4zM3BxoBRycVcA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi49brP687kAhVFiqwKHYTRDLUQ3VYIKigA&biw=1252&bih=626&dpr=2 I did it for all the Divisons I served in. I change my moniker every now and then. Cheers |
That WDR German radio band seems to travel in good company. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSqHZy3JbH4 Love Brecker on this one. Cheers |
Thanks, If I did that I’d have 3rd Armor, 8th ID ,4th ID(RVN) , 5th ID , 11th AA , 1st Cav(RVN) and the ones I liked the best, 173rd AB and Berlin Brigade . Best unit I ever was in was C/3/ 6th Inf BB . Berlin had best discipline in Army . Squad leaders like that . Company Level Officers too, even "water walkers" did not need to worry about it showing upon ER as it didn't show up on special rules for Berlin . At least in early 60's when I was there . |
2nd AD - Ft Hood, 3rd Armored Cavalry - Ft Bliss, 4th ID - Ft Carson, 2ID - Korea, 1CD - Ft Hood. First Cavalry is almost as good at self-promotion as the Marine Corps. That's saying something. My sister worked for the Army in Berlin as a Teacher of English to soldiers to whom English was a Second Language. Mostly Hispanic. She thought the Berlin Brigade was the best thing since sliced bread. She based this on their sharp appearance. :) I always thought they were for show, because in case of war, they could immediately kiss their asses goodbye. Cheers |
We were sharp but we trained just as hard as 173'rd . We were there as a trip wire that ensured NATO we were serious. 6,000 dead Americans couldn’t be ignored . We, at least Senior NCO’s and Officers knew that . Our barracks , old German ones but in good shape were 1.4 km from 500 Russian Arty 155 pieces . As you know , the Russians are the masters of Artillery . Talked to some former eastern front soldiers about that , their greatest fear. Their joke was the Russians fire control asked which pocket the infantry wanted . Cheers |
Nah! I don’t compete that way. The glee will come when you see the light and stop being a Africa-connection denier. Besides, I am in the process of downscaling my system for something simpler and that doesn’t require the push of seven (!) “on” buttons for it to play music. Well, at least I’m thinking about it. Maybe Polks? 🤥 |
Seems as if everyone is scaling down. I think it was preordained by the advent of the CD player. The vinyl brigade is holding out, but eventually it'll all be one or two boxes. And Polks of course. That's the one thing I didn't like about the digital disc, There was nothing for me to do. I didn't feel involved. But I got over it. Cheers |
frogman, I know that Buddy Rich was very opinionated and critical of other genres of music or just of music he thought "stunk" and he did not care who might have distanced themselves from him or, as another way of putting it - drove people away. And as nsp pointed out did indeed have a black belt in Karate. As for his curse filled rantings I believe Buddy’s mistake was not choosing the best players to begin with. And then he would chastise them when they screwed up which only makes it worse. I think that is why a lot of his "Buddy Rich Big Band" output is mediocre. Although there are a lot of gems too. His small band sessions are better - maybe because it was easier for Buddy to get everyone on the "same page" His leadership skills were nowhere close to a Duke Ellington or Count Basie when it came to big bands. I love Buddy Rich but I think his best recordings are as a sideman whether in a big band or quartet/septet. I wonder how Buddy would have handled himself in a trio recording with accompanying bass and piano. I was thinking of buying this disc: https://www.amazon.com/Tatum-Hampton-Rich-Lionel-Hampton-Buddy-Tatum/dp/B000M08CA8/ref=sr_1_7?keywor... Here is a song from the above disc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk33s6RDIk4 Here is another I found. Man o Man that Lester Young was smooth..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87f6g-yimHg |
Beautiful Lester Young, pjw; thanks. Re Buddy: You make an interesting point about Buddy Rich as a sideman and you may be right that those are his best recordings. However, I’m not sure that I agree that he didn’t hire great players. I know a lot of the players who played in his bands post around 1978 or so. Great players. Although I did not know him, his featured tenor soloist Steve Marcus is a great player as were many others. I see it as the other way around. Buddy was an ego maniac and often abusive. As a sideman, he would never get away with that kind of behavior. As a leader, he could and did. Musicians will not give of their best under those conditions. Even so, I think that the main reason a lot of his later big band stuff is not particularly great is the same reason that later Maynard Ferguson stuff wasn’t either. The focus was not great big band playing, it became “The Buddy Rich Show”. The style became this extremely aggressive, bombastic “always balls to the wall” style of playing that I personally can’t stand. Still, amazing drummer. Great posts. |
"Drummer Buddy Rich, whose quicksilver, frenetic technique earned him the accolade “fastest hands in the world,” died Thursday after suffering a seizure at a Bel-Air residence where he was recuperating from brain surgery. He was 69." Maybe he was born with a tiny brain tumor that grew; his behavior was always erratic. |
I put this on our current page so that we can refer to it from time to time. https://www.npr.org/sections/ablogsupreme/2015/12/21/460527087/the-2015-npr-music-jazz-critics-poll |
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Anything you can do with sticks he can do . Loud ,soft and in between . https://youtu.be/2b4hnwMTeU8?t=6 |
Monster drummer! One of my faves and member one of my favorite quartets in recent times: https://youtu.be/dy0Kalb617w https://youtu.be/Wem-GMT9NYA Little known fact, he also plays trumpet. He and Michael B. switch horns; Peterson on trumpet and Brecker on drums. Having fun! https://youtu.be/VOLf6E10a94 |
pjw I have that rich Lionel Hampton Art Tatum disc you listed for quite a while. It's very good. Art Tatum was quite a player and Rich plays brushes a lot and is quite subdued in this context. RecommendedI agree with frogman's assessment of Rich and that it was "the Buddy Rich Show" bombastic in-your-face loud big band which I liked at first but grew out of as my tastes changed. |
The opposite of bombastic. Classic Neal Hefti big band chart: https://youtu.be/5_Mtgo9WOL0 Even more relaxed tempo. Of all the renditions of this chart that I’ve heard, my favorite. The great Frank Wess leads a Basie alumni band. Fabulous instrumental blend; like velvet. Snooky Young is wonderful: https://youtu.be/RlX0b-AJWz4 |
It is a crime how little Hefti and other great arrangers are so generally unknown ! It amazes me how all these old American masters end up playing in Cologne with WDR .frogman , I’ll wager you’d be amazed what that fine WDR Saxophone lady, Karolina Strassmayer, can do with her miserystick , only fleeting glances of her changing instruments seem to be on the tube . |
Indeed a crime, Schubert. Strassmeyer is very fine; and you’re right, being a good doubler is a requirement for membership in a band with a repertoire like theirs which runs the gamut. Speaking of Frank Wess, Maria Schneider, doubling and new Jazz. This tenor is one of the most interesting of the new (ish) crop of players on the scene. Member of Schneider’s band, he is an incredible multi instrumentalist who was taken under his wing by Frank Wess. Can play styles old and new at the highest level. Plays many unusual and exotic instruments, but tenor is his primary horn. Instruments as exotic as his wardrobe 😊. A bit like James Carter in that his tone concept is traditional, but can play very modern harmonically. Check out Frank Wess’ expressions while he listens to Scott. No doubt in that old master’s mind whether Scott can play or not. Frank Wess was 87! when this was done. I hope I can still pick my nose at 87: https://youtu.be/YtY4WeNEQy8 |
What gets me with Wess in that clip is he still seems to not have lost his nuance factor which is remarkable at his age ,don’t have to cut any slack for him! If WDR ever calls for you (very likely) don’t forget to see the Cologne Cathedral(Dom) , near their studio and likely the most beautiful church in the world . |
I found something in "Vocals" on the jazz critics page; Charenee Wade, Offering: The Music of Gil Scott-Heron and Brian Jackson. Acman pointed me in that direction and I like it a lot; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMGME3Bvy9Y Gil Scott was an idealist who made social commentary in a style that is now called "Rap", but I'm sure he wouldn't want to be called the first rapper. "Rap" is totally disgusting when compared to Gil Scott's social commentary; Rap is low life, but it is what it is, it's what life is about when you sell dope, rap or starve; look at Detroit, Cleveland, and a host of other cities. That's what life is about when all the jobs are shipped out to another country. Gil Scott was before the working man had come to that state. He was about preventing what we see now. While some were left behind during his time, the "American Dream" was still alive and well; Detroit, Chicago, (even the South Side) and a host of other cities were great places to live; this was in the late 60's and early 70's. There is a song that paints a picture of a young working man's heaven, it's called "Summer Breeze"; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T88fbHOmvRk See the curtains hangin' in the window In the evening on a Friday night A little light a-shinin' through the window Lets me know everything's all right Summer breeze makes me feel fine Blowin' through the jasmine in my mind Summer breeze makes me feel fine Blowin' though the jasmine in my mind See the paper layin' on the sidewalk A little music from the house next door So I walk on up to the doorstep Through the screen and across the floor If that same young man was living in that same house, he would be living in an uninhabitable crime ridden, dope driven neighborhood; that's what it is today. |
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Rok, the reason I keep going back to the 2015 jazz poll is because I'm trying to refute my own thesis that good jazz is no longer being created.***** The Jazz you are speaking of is gone. Gone. Accept that fact. Also we must accept that once Wynton is no longer with us, that will be the final nail in the coffin of Jazz as we knew it, as far as it being played at the highest level. BUT, there is always a but, look what we do have to be thankful for: The Compact Disc The Internet You Tube Amazon Very good and inexpensive stereo gear (once you get pass the hype, marketing and ignorance, this stuff has never been better or cheaper) Smart phones So, we will always be able to hear the good stuff. And hear it in the best sound quality ever. And the older and better it is, the cheaper it is. So focus on the the bright side. Besides, we probably have not heard all the old stuff yet. Cheers |
0-10 and rok2id , both well said . But without the well-spring of live music it all means nothing .You have to drink from the well to placate your thirst . One of the many dangers of old age is your lack of thirst , I have to remember to drink . If anybody wonders why so many good to great jazz musicians stay with bands like WDR , I’ll tell you why . These people are civil servants of the German State , they have full medical and dental coverage , 6 weeks a year paid vacation and at 62 can retire with a good pension if they so desire . In short , they are under little stress . I know some good players here who are badly stressed out to make medical and dental for their family . I consider that criminal . |
