Jazz for aficionados

Mayor, what do you think of this by Stanley Turrentine;


  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4rJqEpKFVE

Better. That’s like good elevator music. Still not my cup of tea. Love jazz. Don’t love this. 

Today's Listen:

Lester Young, Roy Eldridge, Harry Edison -- LAUGHIN' TO KEEP FROM CRYING

My kind of Trumpet players!  Lester plays clarinet.   Excellent, if tiny, liner notes.   Didn't say to what Benny the salute was intended.
Lester died the following year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPJ_5reMkC0   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIrRal4fqWs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrXHu4elT5E

Cheers

Mayor, the title of this thread is "Jazz For Aficionados". According to Webster, an Aficionado is a person who is very knowledgeable and enthusiastic about an activity, subject, or pastime. "aficionados of the finest wines", or the best jazz; think of   "connoisseur".

Since you were never issued an official "aficionado card", I don't have to pull it.

With all due respect, you're evaluation of that gem is proof positive that you do not meet the requirements of a "Jazz Aficionado", but with enough effort, you may one day be qualified.


Have a nice day.

Many jazz tunes have very deep meaning, and music that projects the depths of that meaning. "I Told Jesus" is just such a tune.

I once knew a beautiful girl who was very religious, and when she was overwhelmed by her problems this is what she did; she told Jesus.

When I was curled up in a hospital bed waiting to die, someone must have told Jesus.


  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4JP6JRv7k0


This is from the album "Salt Song".


Track listing
"Gibraltar"
"I Told Jesus"
"Salt Song"
"I Haven't Got Anything Better to Do"
"Storm"
"Vera Cruz"


Recorded on July 7 & 13 (tracks 1-5) and April 23, 1971

Personnel
Stanley Turrentine - tenor saxophone
Eumir Deodato - electric piano, arranger, conductor
Ron Carter - bass
Airto Moreira - drums, percussion
Horace Parlan, Richard Tee - piano, electric piano, organ (tracks 1-5)
Eric Gale - electric guitar (tracks 1-5)
Billy Cobham - drums (tracks 1-5)
Julius Brand, Paul Gershman, Julius Held, Leo Kahn, Harry Katzman, Joe Malin - violin (tracks 2-5)
Harold Coletta - viola (tracks 2-5)
Charles McCracken, Alan Shulman - cello (tracks 2-5)
Hubert Laws, George Marge, Romeo Penque, Jerome Richardson - flute (track 6)
Sivuca - guitar (track 6)
Russell George - bass (track 6)
Joao Palma, Dom Um Romão - drums, percussion (track 6)
Margaret Branch, Brenda Bryant, Patsy Smith - vocals (tracks 2 & 5)

I Told Jesus:

Mo better 'fusion'.    As Cannonball said, "It's all the same thing".

Cheers

rok" the International sweethearts of rhythm" was a nice little slice of jazz history. The person who posted the video  seems to indicate there were numerous all-female bands  back at that time . Did Ken Burns forget to cover them in his PBS Jazz series? Or did I just miss that segment. I am guessing that these ladies got together out of necessity as none of them were probably offered positions in the male-dominated Bands of that era.

orpheus10The saxophonist on the Mingus big band cut you posted was Seamus Blake, one of
the new younger artists that I posted recently. Here is something elsehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoFB1G05z1I

Orpheus10There  has been a number



of  Mingus  tribute bands. Here's some samples from things that I own
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL1bnw6dLS4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ro4xlAJOAU



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtLppaiIBDk

orpheus10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zht6IcoJ9C0

I have two.

Mingus Big Band -- I QUE VIVA MINGUS

Big Band Charlie Mingus -- LIVE AT THE T.B.B. PARIS

Both include many big time players.  One of course, is mostly Latin Tunes.   Mingus had a thing for Mexico.   In fact he died there while receiving medical treatment.

Cheers

orpheus10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVr3h2KdBWk

This is where the Sweethearts started.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piney_Woods_Country_Life_School

Wiki indicates this was a school for poor folks, but I think they got it wrong.   I guess they are just used to Poor and Black appearing in the same sentence.  I always thought of it as being an exclusive school.  I knew one of my sister's best friends who went there, and I always thought it was because her parents had money.   She later married B.B. King.

Cheers

orpheus10 I was more confused that the mayor liked "Salt Song" better then the live album which was originally released by CTI as a double LP in 1973 and reissued as volumes one and two on CD numerous times.


I have both live sets(on 2 Japanese RM - RE) releases and I think the music is fantastic. Here is the personnel on the recordings.


Freddie Hubbard trumpet

Stanley Turrentine tenor sax

Herbie Hancock piano

Eric Gale guitar

Ron Carter bass

Eric De Johnette drums

You have already listed the personnel on Salt Song which is very extensive compered to the 6 man lineup on the live set.
Here are reviews I found for both the live album and Salt Song:


Live Album:

Scott Yanow of Allmusic stated "This LP pairs trumpeter Freddie Hubbard and tenor-saxophonist Stanley Turrentine, two very individual players who always brought out the best in each other. They stretch out on long versions of "Povo" and "Gibraltar" that clock in around 19 minutes apiece. The backup rhythm section (guitarist Eric Gale, keyboardist Herbie Hancock, bassist Ron Carter, and drummer Jack DeJohnette) is a major asset and inspires the two horns to play reasonably creative solos."

Syd Fablo of Rock Salted wrote "A really, really good — if strangely overlooked — live jazz fusion album, comparable to Cannonball Adderley‘s The Black Messiah and Donald Byrd‘s Ethiopian Knights, which is to say this is not formally or stylistically innovative but everybody involved delivers superb performances with a focus on warmth and heart. There also is an equally good Volume Two, on which Herbie Hancock shares top billing — strangely, because he plays on both volumes, but also not so strangely given the commonalities this music shares with his own Mwandishi group. As fusion was starting to drift into bland mediocrity, this is something else entirely, a vibrant, energetic and likable rock-inflected electric jazz performance that sidesteps the sort of pandering that usually goes hand-in-hand with fusion from this point onward. There are overt signs of structure, and efforts to make the performances sound proper and professional, but there is always a hint of something unruly and dangerous lurking behind every note. It is that sense of double meaning that makes this more than just a funky good time (which it also is)."[3]

Salt Song:

The Allmusic review by Steve Huey awarded the album 4 stars and states "it’s another fine, eclectic outing that falls squarely into the signature CTI fusion sound: smooth but not slick, accessible but not simplistic... All in all, Salt Song has dated well, partly because the arrangements don’t overemphasize electric piano, but mostly on the strength of Turrentine’s always-soulful playing".[2]

I agree with the two reviews of the live album, because owning it, I have listened to it to many times to count.

"Salt Song" gets 4 stars but I do not have that album so I cannot compliment on it. Suffice to say if Orpheus10 says its a good album I will listen to all of the songs on it via You Tube and decide for myself.

BTW, I am a big fan of Turrentine and own 24 of his recording sessions on CD including "Sugar" which I believe Creed Taylor (CTI) put together. "Sugar" is definitely a 5 star session, IMHO.

Stanley Turrentine’s 1961 live album, "Up At Mintons," which I also have is better then the 1973 live album. 5 stars IMHO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDonxQFq4Wc&list=PL0q2VleZJVEkbfxJPz_ZDfXTBoyfxOgnO

I have both volumes of this as well. Grant Green really shines on them.

Wow page 339 went by fast. I missed a lot of posts.

mary jo Frank Zappa is not for everyone. Mingus' music, as well as Zappa's also requires an "acquired taste" I'm happy you like Gene Ammons' "Angel Eyes" Beautiful song and album. 

nsp Don't be so harsh on Jimmy Page!  Hell is a little harsh. I would say musicians purgatory.

For decades, one of my favorite "unknown" recordings has been Yusef Lateef's "Live at Pep's."  Lateef (like many) doesn't get the credit he deserves as a jazz legend.

Just finished listening and wanted to share.

This particular recording aside, I've admired Lateef since I was a young buck.  An amazing musician who explored the globe in order to immerse himself in vastly different musical cultures, then infuse them into his native jazz.  He hasn't simply enriched my musical world - he instilled a desire to explore all aspects of other cultures (not just music) and seek beauty in things unfamiliar.

Mayoradamwest, if you don’t know these records check them out for good examples of Turrentine’s best work.  I am not a huge fan of Turrentine’s CTI output either; or, most from CTI for that matter.  I do mostly enjoy CTI Turrentine since that fabulous tenor sound and soulfulness are hard to dislike.  Most CTI’s lean toward a very produced (often overproduced) aesthetic with a whole lot of studio “sweetening”.  Btw, welcome to the thread:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwdLMzVSwXAgMDgmYxf053GeFX1sQQMk_

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_npHnsC2n7NTyB-WkVSmLz4ek6XkH_6YdM

Talkin about it let's give everybody a chance to listen to it. Stanley Turrentine Freddie Hubbard live in concert CTI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXRS6Xptlaw

Wow, you all are harsh. Sorry I don’t like a particular album. I bought the album because of the lineup. I found the music (The tracks I listened to) to not really come together. Like they weren’t playing as a group but more as a bunch of individuals. The solos seemed uninspired. Afterward turned on Hubbard’s incredible Open Sesame (45rpm) and Herbie’s Head Hunters. Then finished off the evening with Legrand Jazz.  

Frogman, what do you think of "Salt Song"? Would you call that album "Good elevator music"?

Not a bad recording. Sound is not over sweet like normal CTI. It is 1973 and Herbie is playing electric, but pretty good. Also, Dejohnette is his normal awesome.

https://www.allmusic.com/album/in-concert-vols-1-2-mw0000649573

Always just comes down to personal taste I guess.

Just change the record and listen to something else you like. All Good.

Miles Davis - Kind of Blue (now 60 years old).

Acman, we are talking about two different albums. My question was, "Does Salt Song sound like no more than good elevator music"?


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4rJqEpKFVE&t=335s

I had the opportunity to play with David Benoit recently (I happen to also play music professionally), so I know some good elevator music. ;) doesnt mean it’s bad. 

Not to me, but it would to everyone else I know. It is also not one of my favorites of Mr. T.

If these musicians sound like elevator musicians, I'm glad I don't listen to music with everyone else you know.




Stanley Turrentine - tenor saxophone
Eumir Deodato - electric piano, arranger, conductor
Ron Carter - bass
Airto Moreira - drums, percussion
Horace Parlan, Richard Tee - piano, electric piano, organ (tracks 1-5)
Eric Gale - electric guitar (tracks 1-5)
Billy Cobham - drums (tracks 1-5)
Julius Brand, Paul Gershman, Julius Held, Leo Kahn, Harry Katzman, Joe Malin - violin (tracks 2-5)
Harold Coletta - viola (tracks 2-5)
Charles McCracken, Alan Shulman - cello (tracks 2-5)
Hubert Laws, George Marge, Romeo Penque, Jerome Richardson - flute (track 6)
Sivuca - guitar (track 6)
Russell George - bass (track 6)
Joao Palma, Dom Um Romão - drums, percussion (track 6)
Margaret Branch, Brenda Bryant, Patsy Smith - vocals (tracks 2 & 5)

After all of this, I just know Mr. Mayor is going to post something that will blow the roof off the house; the floor is yours Mr. Mayor.

I mean, David Benoit is literally the sound of the weather channel. But something has to be elevator music, right? We can’t just stand there awkwardly in silence. It’s important we have music that’s so inoffensive while also not evoking any sort of emotion to take some of the awkwardness away. Except in Vegas, where it should only be Dean Martin on every elevator. 

My current obsession, btw, is Renaud Garcia-Fons Trio. In particular Arcoluz. 

Funny, I’ve been around musicians of just about every persuasion for about fifty years and I have never met any “elevator musicians”....no room for the drums 😊.

I won’t comment on someone else’s characterization of a music. It’s not my characterization and it’s all too loaded. Instead, I will take a stab at characterizing, by way of description, how many of CTI’s recordings, including Salt Song, were made. This is significant because the method used results in some of the qualities that I hear in the music and which are the reason that I am very mixed (pun) about that kind of musical aesthetic:

Stanley and rhythm section arrive at the studio. The drums are not in an elevator 😊, but are in a soundproof booth separate from the other rhythm section players. Chances are that the bass, piano and guitar (maybe) are in the main room. Stanley may also be in a separate soundproof room. There is very little physical connection between the players. They listen to each other via the sound fed to each of their cans (headphones) by the recording engineer after that sound is EQ’ed and balanced per the producer’s (Creed Taylor’s) tastes and musical vision; not the ambient sound in the room. The balance and EQ settings have to be altered as the sessions progress since different rhythm section players are used on different tunes. After a quick run through, or two, of each tune (remember, they are not a working band), they do a take; or two, or three. Taylor decides which take is the best, but he thinks that the piano (or, whatever) solo could be better. He brings Richard Tee back in to overdub a new solo over the previously recorded rhythm track. Then, Airto is brought back in to add and overdub more percussion “toys” to his previously recorded percussion track. The layers of sweetening start being added.

Later that evening the string section arrives and they all are situated in the same room with the possible exception of the added acoustic bass. They don their cans and, conducted by Deodato, they overdub their parts over the rhythm section and solo saxophone (maybe) parts recorded earlier that day. Parts in a string arrangement that was farmed out to an orchestrator that will never set foot in that studio and may or may not get credit for the arrangement; depending on how big the name was (Quincy would get credit). It’s very possible that they will play to a mechanical “click track” that is heard superimposed over the music track. If the woodwinds were not recorded at the same time as the strings, they may play and overdub their parts after the strings are finished.

That night, while thinking about the work produced that day, Taylor decides that a little vocals sweetening is just what two of the tunes need. Makes some calls and the vocals are recorded the following day. He had also decided that on one of the tunes the tenor solo should follow the guitar solo, not the other way around. So....you guessed it, Stanley and Eric Gale overdub new solos the following day over the previously recorded tracks. Result? Good solos, but the give and take and musical interaction that happens when all the musicians play together is not there to the same degree. But, at least the order of solos is the way the producer wants it.

During playback for final mix down later that week Taylor notices that the violins are not perfectly in tune with Richard Tee’s piano. What to do? Can’t bring all those string players back in; too expensive. No problem, just add a healthy dose of reverb to the string track...fixes everything. Hides the problem and is just a little more still of the distinctive reverb heavy CTI sound.

While not my favorite work by Turrentine by a long shot, still pleasantly funky and fun listening if not particularly inspired. Then, there’s that tenor sound!

While there are a number of other "world class" musicians, Acman and Frogman only hear Stanley Turrentine, and Mr. Mayor hears elevator music.

All of that puts me in another musical universe, and I like it.

//mary jo Frank Zappa is not for everyone. Mingus' music, as well as Zappa's also requires an "acquired taste" I'm happy you like Gene Ammons' "Angel Eyes" Beautiful song and album.//

pjw, I am glad that I do not have that acquired taste. My current limitations suit me just fine. ;-)
His music just does not have a sense to me. He can't lure me in, instead I manage to stay out just watching what he does, not participating. However, to Mingus I am giving a chance. Because it's jazz. 

Orpheus' taste in jazz is in many seen ways (if I am not mistaken?) is similar to Alex's so naturally, O-10 I like many of your postings. But that Stanley Turrentine Salt Song is not my cup of tea either. Can't say it's elevator music, but if there weren't some solos that I found extremely good, or religious themes that do not fit just anywhere, I would call it dinner jazz. However, this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkO7LrZIhQM I find fantastic.

Attention! Elevator is coming down! Anybody going on the tenth floor?

I wonder how they call an elevator when it's going down? Downator? 

"Two men in an elevator.

One says to the other, sniffing: Excuse me, did you pass wind?

The other answers, sounding hurt and offended: Of course I did! Do you think I always stink like this?"

Thank you Mary-Jo; that means that so far I'm hitting 100%, now I know who to use for my reverse barometer.



The Allmusic review by Steve Huey awarded the album 4 stars and states "it's another fine, eclectic outing that falls squarely into the signature CTI fusion sound: smooth but not slick, accessible but not simplistic... All in all, Salt Song has dated well, partly because the arrangements don't overemphasize electric piano, but mostly on the strength of Turrentine's always-soulful playing".

This Bud is for you Mary-jo;


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__OSyznVDOY

frogman I agree with your assessment  of Creed Taylor's (CTI) overly produced/engineered and tinkered with recording methods.

While "Salt Song", in which I have listened to a few tracks now, is not something I would add to my collection I do not regard it as elevator music either. That term should be reserved for the likes of Kenny G and other "smooth jazz" artists.

The Turrentine albums "Sugar" and "Cherry" were also produced and engineered by Creed Taylor (CTI) and both of those are in my collection. "sugar", IMHO, is a masterpiece at 5 stars while "Cherry", although not as good as "Sugar" I still consider it a very good album and I would give it 4 stars.

mary jo thanks for the elevator joke : ) 

orpheus10 thanks for the Mingus moanin'

Very intense!

Stanley Turrentine's "Sugar" live:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmTGxdNTxIo

And "Cherry"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHGrCCYIkck

Jazz projects universal emotions as complex as physics and deeper than the Pacific; no wonder it's not for everyone, just for those with the ability to hear with the inner ear.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj1j4mN7OT0


This musical combination defies description; it's a mixture of music from far away places with strange sounding names that existed at the beginning of time. This was conceived by one of the original creators of modern jazz.

There are those who are tuned to this frequency, and there are those who are on a different wavelength.

orpheus10 I don't know if you like Frank Zappa or not but if you have the time listen to this 16:55 version of "The Gumbo Variations". This particular song, as well as many other Zappa songs, are borderline "jazzy" music. Frank loved jazz and often times had a 12 piece brass section on recordings and in live concerts. Just want to know your honest opinion on it. If you dislike it I'll understand - Zappa is not for everyone. Sometimes it can be overly "cerebral" This song, however is not

And look at the first comment on You Tube and I quote:

"like Coltrane, from a different planet"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CyIj96Rpwc