I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Rok, as much as I like Carmen, that's my least favorite by her. While I liked the music, I don't think Monks music is too conducive to vocals, plus, Carmen was long in the tooth by that time, but we all have to make a living.
The biggest problem is that I have so much of her music when she was much younger, and I couldn't help but compare the two; other than that, everything is just fine.
Since the CD got the highest rating, I could be wrong.
I have that CD also. Carmen did a lot of 'tribute' albums. I think part of my problem with past Jazz Divas, is that Dee Dee Bridgewater, has redefined or transformed my idea of what a Jazz diva sings and how she sings it. Not a lot of that 'songbook' stuff.
Dee Dee's got style; as I have gathered from your posts. When I hear her on my playlist it's almost like hearing a different artist; she's less stylish.
It's not that I don't like her more stylish recordings, I just don't have them; which is something I'll have to correct;
I have this one also. Had to get up and get it to see who was on organ. On the back cover is a picture of the band, includes Ali Jackson on drums. He looks like a teenager. Recorded in 1998.
It's the kind of CD, esp since it's live, that makes you wish you were there. They seem to be having a great time.
You get 'House of the Rising Sun' only on CDs ordered from Barnes and Noble. Mine does not include that tune. Why? I have no idea. Must be some Nawlins thingy.
We were discussing him a couple weeks ago before you two guys started posting daily again. I have All of his sessions as a leader and much to much to count as a sideman.
I highly recommend the two disc set "The Harold Land And Carmell Jones Quintets - Complete Studio Recordings"
Excellent!! On 'Festival', I thought we were going to have another "interval" like we did on 'Diminuendo in Blue an Crescendo in Blue' on the 'Ellington at Newport' recording. Great stuff.
Rok, it's funny that you should ask questions that have crossed my mind. I never cared for the song until I heard Lorez sing it; she adds a lot of sexy innuendo.
Picture this "stone fox" looking out the window at knee deep snow, so she fly's south, where a two timin jaybird singed her wings, but she's ready to forgive and forget, plus do a little warbling that can make a lonely man happy; how she can sing. So the divine miss O is ready to give it another go.
Never the less, "Baltimore Oriole" will not be on my favorite list of songs.
The cover on "Deep Roots", which is my favorite album, is down right ugly, and that's not my favorite photograph of her on the other cover with Baltimore Oriole.
Pjw, thanks for the compliments, I intend to be around for awhile; especially when there are aficionados like you who make excellent posts and communicate well.
Now I'm going to pipe Herbie Hancock to the big rig and listen.
Re “Giant Steps” and for anyone interested in understanding not only the tune itself, but why the tune is a milestone in Jazz. Interesting stuff and highly recommended, but only geeks need apply 😊:
I hope there is room for dissenting opinion on James Carter’s “Giant Steps” (and reason there is vanilla and chocolate). Very exciting and exuberant, JC is a great player and like all players he has his strengths and his weaknesses. IMO, navigating the incredibly difficult changes to GS is simply not his bag. He simply doesn’t make the changes; and, all other sources of excitement and vigor in his playing don’t hide the fact that he doesn’t quite have the kind of ultra secure command of harmony necessary on such a challenging tune. This is no reflection on all his other excellences; it is an amazing test of improvisational skill and sophistication as the above clip explains well. Very simple test: listen intently to the melody of the tune and keep it in your mind’s ear while the player improvises. Can that melody still be “heard” while the player improvises? Helps greatly to listen to Trane’s masterful execution first (it is linked in the above clip).
Three players who may not have JC’s particular brand of excitement appeal, but who are much more proficient with this particular challenge; which is what the tune is really all about:
***** (1) Three players who may not have JC’s particular brand of excitement appeal, (2) but who are much more proficient with this particular challenge; (3) which is what the tune is really all about: *****
Great clips. Navarro was definitely one of the all time greats. Except for Dizzy’s high chops, probably an even better trumpet player from an instrumentalist point of view. Dizzy’s equal, but ultimately not, as far as overall influence (died too young).
The Kenny Clarke (1946) clip is particularly interesting from a historical point of view. It shows players who were transitioning from Swing to Bebop. The solos, with one notable exception, and even the tune itself show experimentation with what would become “bebopisms”; stretching of harmony and interesting little melodic twists. Only one player, Sonny Stitt, sounds fully ensconced in the language of Bebop. Good stuff.
frogman, I have listened to John Coltrane’s version of Giant Steps many times over the years. But a month or two between listens.
I plan on listening to it repeatedly through my headphones over and over until I "get it". Then I will compare other players improvisations over the melody. I think this is the best way for me to learn the "Mystery of soloing to Giant Steps"
What did you think of the duo playing organ and drums. Did you think they played the melody and rythm of Giant Steps adequately?
On Coltrane’s studio recording the final release had Tommy Flanagan on piano on all songs except "Naima" in which Wynton Kelly played piano.
Art Taylor played drums on all the songs except "Naima" as well. Jimmy Cobb played drums on that song.
Lex Humphries and Cedar Walton played drums and piano, respectively, on "alternate versions" of 2 songs - Giant Steps and Naima.
Paul Chambers played bass on everything that was put down on wax including alternate versions.
What do you think were the factors for replacing Flanagan and Taylor for just the one song Naima?
Do not skip the nearly 5 minute advertisement which is interesting and would suggest that James Carter, while technically brilliant, has not trained his "mental state" adequately enough.
16 measures ?, 3 tonal centers?..... G major 7, chord structure upper minor 3rd - down a 5th? I leaned a lot and now I know why the song is titled "Giant Steps"
Another thing, which you may already know, Trane used to go to Thelonious Monk's apartment daily and sit for hours on end practicing with him. Do you think this helped him with all the compositions he wrote with "melodic shifts" ?
frogmanI have to agree with your assessment of "Giant Steps". I listen to the first cut with Tenors Brecker and Mintzer and it's obvious their technical facilities are being used more than Carter. I liked Mintzer's version better then brecker's. I like the fact they adhere to the changes of the song and you can hear them going through them when they play. I think for James Carter he has carved a style of his own when playing that is very demonstrative, exciting and different than anyone else. Of course this is an important element for anyone's development. Sometimes I find James veers off into for lack of a better term an R&B Style. But he is never less than interesting exciting and I think he has incorporated previous styles of jazz into to his own personal statement. Maybe James is abandoning some or all of the to Giant Steps to make a different statement. But then it's not Giant Steps is it?
I thoroughly enjoyed each "Fats Navarrow" clip; no doubt about it, he's tops in bop.
Trumpet is the only instrument where I have an over all favorite, he's Lee Morgan; as well as I like many other trumpet players, he's my all around favorite.
Although it was a long time ago, I still cry when I hear this song. (almost anyway)
Every city is just a bunch of small towns, and everybody knows everybody else's business. They knew I was still in love with her when she walked through the door looking ever so fantastic, and not sitting at the stool next to mine. What really got me though was why did they look at me instead of her; they even played this song;
I know you play piano and it seems to me that playing the piano is the best way to learn chords, melodies, and structures. It is also the best way to teach other aspiring musicians no matter what instrument they are playing.
My point was that Carter can play GS anyway he wants to play it. That’s what Jazz is all about, individual freedom. Freedom from the written page.
from the notes of THE FATS NAVARRO STORY they are discussing Fats replacing Dizzy in the Eckstine band.
Fats played his book and you would hardly know that Dizzy had left the band. "Fat Girl" played Dizzy’s solos, not note for note, but his ideas on Dizzy’s parts and the feeling was the same and there was just so much swing.
Same with GS. It out there for all to play. As I sit here, you-tube is playing Ahmad Jamal doing ’Poinciana’. It’s the one at the Olympia in Paris. Great stuff. But, it’s not the one he played at the Pershing. Does not have to be, and maybe it shouldn’t be.
Pjw, those are two of my favorite vocalists. Since nobody has posted him, I totally forgot how fantastic Johnny Mathis was, and Etta Jones is a favorite since "Don't Go To Strangers"
pjw, thanks for the clip. Great stuff. He does a great job of explaining the harmonic details of the tune. I applaud your inquisitiveness about all this; it all adds a great deal to the appreciation and enjoyment of the music. There are so many different layers to this music and the experience of listening to it.
I think that James’s organ/drums duo does more than play the tune “adequately”. They are really good rhythm players. It’s all a matter of degree. Do I think they are as swinging and nuanced as some others? No; but they are certainly good. Just my opinions. Check out Peter Erskine on the Brecker/Mintzer clip. Amazing.
You write that in that Flanagan and Taylor were replaced on two songs, GS and Naima. I don’t know about Taylor, but Flanagan’s performance on GS is the stuff of Jazz lore, but not in a good way. He really struggled with the tune’s changes, is very tentative and actually stops improvising and just comps for the last several bars. He just could not cut it. Much has been written about all this. Playing over changes that intricate and FAST was something that even the best players at the time were not used to and some were never able to do it. Some didn’t even try. I don’t know the dates of those alternate takes, but if they are from a later date (even just a day or so) then the reason for the change is pretty obvious.
Trane practiced incessantly and worked on all these harmony techniques methodically in order to expand his musical vocabulary. None of it happened by accident. He was always searching for new sounds and new techniques and hanging with Monk, being the great individualist that he was, was probably very appealing to Trane. It’s interesting to me that, in a way, there is a similarity to both of their general rhythmic feels. Not what could typically be called smooth and laid back, but a little angular even jagged instead. Great question, btw. Regards.
**** My point was that Carter can play GS anyway he wants to play it. That’s what Jazz is all about, individual freedom. Freedom from the written page. ****
Of course he can. And it can also not be very good, or may even suck, as a result. The whole idea of “individual freedom” at all cost has been used as a fallback position for justification of a whole lot of mediocre or even bad playing; just look a some of the “out” or avant garde stuff. Not saying that JC is mediocre at all, he’s a great player in many ways. Just saying that something like Giant Steps is not where he excels.
Honoring the changes of a tune is sacrosanct in Jazz and this is not just opinion. That doesn’t mean that there can’t be a lot of “personal freedom” within the confines of the tune’s structure (includes the changes). That is the whole idea behind what players like Trane strived for. He stretched the harmonic boundaries. However, that “stretching” is an organized and logical “extension” of the harmony; never a free for all. It is not that hard to tell when a player is “stretching the boundaries” and when he’s just doing what jazz players simply refer to as bullshi##!ng one’s way through the changes. The changes to GS are a bitch.
I must say that I find contradiction, and irony, in the fact that you can acknowledge that players “avoid GS like the plague”, but then you dismiss the importance of the very reason that they avoid the tune.... honoring the changes.
I think that nsp’s post on the matter is really on the money. Regards.
O-10, that must have been some lady that caused you to spill your beer all over your shoes without you even noticing ☺️. That was probably the reason that they were looking at you instead; not to mention the forlorn look on your face.
Great renditions of that great tune; thanks all. Here’s a version that I have always liked. Much more commercial and produced than the others; but one time when even though the producer went to town with a whole lot of “sweetening”, it all seemed to work well. With Dave Sanborn at his best.
Gorgeous “September Song”; thanks. One of my favorite tunes from the great Kurt Weill. Parker sounds awesome playing the chart. The other thing I hear, and it goes to a great comment that nsp made, is James Carter. Or, more accurately, how much JC obviously admires the pre-Coltrane style of tenor playing. Big, bold, sometimes breathy tone and with a lot of swagger. Great clips.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
