Jazz for aficionados
O-10, perhaps your camels just need a rest. I know you are not a fan of "Classical", but do like evocative flute playing with an Eastern flavor. This might get your caravan going again. Sunrise on the Sahara? : https://youtu.be/llulYG4OWDI |
Frogman, I just watched you link to Kenny D Jr playing Back and "Stella in Starlight " . I was immediately shocked at how sick he was and that the venue was the School of Music at the U of MN . You could tell where his heart was when he slid into "Stella" a most noble effort by a great musician just months away from his death. The School has about 600 students who all have to give recitals , they all all free and 4.7 miles from me ! Even in Summer , in next 5 days there will be 3 major concerts , Brahms Requiem , Mozart’s Sinfonia concertante and a recital from the Baroque Instrumental Group as part of the 2 week Mpls. Early Music Festival. School has 2 big bands and 6-7 small jazz ensembles , all this is in Ted Mann Hall, 1200 seat venue with world-class acoustics . They don’t call Mpls. the "minni apple" for nothing ! |
Caravans were temporary associations of merchants who joined together to make the difficult journey under the leadership of a hired caravan leader using camels rented from the nomadic bedouins who lived in the desert. They often included one thousand to five thousand camels and hundreds of people. Typically, a third of the camels carried food and water for the caravan as a whole. The success of a caravan depended on the caravan leader, who was typically a desert bedouin. Paid either in cash or as shares of the merchants’ profit, a caravan leader was responsible for navigating the route from watering place to watering place, managing relationships with the desert population–who could quickly turn from service providers to marauders–and supervise the daily work of loading, unloading, and feeding the camels. He had a paid team of laborers, scouts, healers and occasionally a Muslim clergyman to provide services, all generally members of the same bedouin tribe as the leader. Oases were the critical element. They were resting places where the caravan could find food, water, and fresh camels–the medieval equivalent of the truck stop. Some of the larger oases held regular markets during the caravan season, which typically ran from October to March in order to avoid the worst heat. The failure of a caravan to reach an oasis could mean disaster not only to the caravan but to those who lived at the oasis and depended on the trans-Saharan trade for their survival. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz0ZHjnsZDE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Kn3JnAtKVU I can only vaguely remember the movies with the caravan and the Sahara as the setting; that's what excited my fantasies of traveling by caravan across the desert, and of course Ella Fitzgerald's song. I think my fantasy has faded; it's gotten lost with the shifting sands. |
o10, I have this album so don't know why I didn't think to post it earlier? It will close out my caravan contributions. At least this is closer to jazz than my last couple of links. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXLrrp49GqE |
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Pryso, that's perfect, I have most of his CD's; they are very ornamental. This is even better than my fantasy, because we have moved into the reality of music in that part of the world, which has stayed close to the original since the time of Jesus. I thank you for your last contribution. My last contribution is forthcoming, after which this chapter is closed. |
Never one to miss an opportunity for beating a dead camel.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkfiQsq8cwE&ab_channel=JazzBreakTV Apologies if this was already posted. I did go back and sample the various related links...mighta missed it tho'. |
The passion of Christ, the movie, is the first one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt-9eDWP5f0&list=PLG5aU2rEiT76xLZ-oUy2u56g89SRQEChM Now we go to Rabbi Abou Khalil, "Bukra"; Kibbe is the cut. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGMgxa3M8Fs Next is from "Al Jadida"; Catania; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMUfSpeUzA8 These are the best looking, most ornamental CD's I've ever seen. This is the music you would have heard by the campfire at night under a full moon. |
Frogman , serious question . I’ve listened to your link to Kenny D Jr 6 times , partly for the sheer beauty of it and partly trying to see how he does those chords . But most of all because the way these 3 play together is meta-physical , almost seems impossible to do . Is this more from sheer shed time or because these guys have perfected the art of listening to each other, just know each other inside out , all of the above ? One a scale of 1 to 10 how would you rate this trio on improv to the extent its playing off the others ? Assuming they are . |
Nice fantasy, O-10 and thanks for sharing. We all have them, but I'm not quite ready to post mine 😉. Man, saxophone music by the campfire in the Sahara! That is one hip caravan! A little less hip: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5414InafIUk https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yZSTMOcRqPY |
Schubert, great question. The answer is, not surprisingly I’m sure, "all of the above". That level of musical intuition is a combination of innate ability ("great ears") and musical maturity gained by learning the importance of knowing when to support a musical colleague and when, and how much, to make it about one’s ego; all for the good of the music. Aside from whatever level of innate ability a musician was blessed with (or not) those are things that can be worked on and developed. While that work is a kind of "shedding" it mostly requires playing with others. To the point that I think you implied re "shed time": a musician can be blessed with the highest level of innate musical intuition possible, but ultimately he has to be in total control of the physical mechanism of playing or singing (achieved by putting in a lot of "shed time") otherwise the body cannot translate the musical messages that the brain/heart sends in a way that is physically controlled enough to allow the kind of musical cohesion that you are hearing in that clip. To your second question: if one considers what the very best examples there have been throughout the history of the music I would rate that a solid 8. Acknowledging a certain amount of inevitable subjectivity, for me, Miles’ classic quintet from the 60’s with Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, Ron Carter and Tony Williams set the standard for that kind of ensemble musical intuition as did the Bill Evans trio with Scott Lafaro and Paul Motian. |
I said I was closing out my caravan contributions. I lied. I just couldn't resist adding "Desert Marauders" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL877qkv_YM |
The caravan music ended better than expected; especially when you consider the diverse people found in the Sahara; Bedouins, Tuareg and others who are hired to lead the caravan across the perilous shifting sands where desert marauders may be hiding behind every dune. I found the desert music to be of sufficient variety, but always in sight of a sand dune; that keeps you in the Sahara and in the caravan, I could even smell the camels, and occasionally hear that obnoxious sound they make. Since I didn't see one of those things that rides on top of a camel where a sheik could glide along with his honey in his arms, I don't have the part where Ella sings; This is so exciting You are so inviting Resting in my arms As I thrill to the magic charms I don't have that part figured out, but this caravan came very close to my fantasy; even concluding with desert marauders, and I thank everyone for their contributions. |
So very kind of you to give such a thoughtful and complete answer to my question Frogman , answer must be valuable to all on here not a pro musician . It’s all pretty much what I thought , but is VERY helpful to know one is not on the wrong track aka totally nuts. Something like if you studied hard for a final exam, took same and never got graded . I had them as a 9 but I know I tend to get freaky on great talent previously unknown to me . To this simple listener to be so together at such a tempo will always be nothing short of a miracle . |
Everybody likes bass; including me. No, I do not want a bass woofer, but I have 12inch woofers in a 3 way for speakers. I'm mentioning this because I was listening to Mingus, and really getting off on the sound of his bass, but I am absolutely not a bass freak, I just want whatever the artist deems appropriate. I would like for you to share with us the best bass solo you ever heard, the genre of the music is irrelevant. |
Impossible to call a "best", but here's a couple that would definitely be contenders: When jazz bass players solo, oftentimes I'm left thinking "pretty good....for a bass player". Not with this guy: https://youtu.be/hX-xB6FNyAE Classic: https://youtu.be/-0NNA6w8Zk4 Classic(al): https://youtu.be/QcXQcsAOx0I |
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Frogman, I had to listen to all your submissions twice because I wasn't impressed the first time, but neither was I impressed the second time. I clearly stated the most impressive "you ever heard". Since that's what you submitted, you most certainly submitted what was requested, but since I wasn't impressed, and since you are a musician (professional no less) there must have been something wrong with my evaluation. I accept me as I am. (something I should have done shortly after birth) I don't mean I would still be pooping on myself; some things needed changing, but I would have been in search of who I am, as opposed to being the person somebody else wanted me to be. Fortunately others will make submissions, and comment on yours. I'm sure the comments will get better for you. "Have You Met Miss Jones"; I liked that tune, and they qualified as capturing the essence of the tune while producing a very listenable sound, but I missed whatever was special about the bass. |
O-10, not looking for positive comments at all, but thanks for your concern 😇. Thoughtful commentary would be nice however. Three performances in three different genres that came to mind immediately. Like I said in my post, the whole idea of a "best" is kind of pointless, imo. Frankly, I am not surprised by your reaction since it is no secret that you and I often listen for and react to very different things in music; after all, you think Billy Bang is a good player. Btw, I don’t think there is anything "wrong with (your) evaluation"; I don’t go there. There are so many reasons why those are notable performances, starting with Pedersen’s finesse and impeccable pitch (for a bass player). I would welcome from you an example of a jazz bass solo that you feel betters it as far as command of the changes of a tune and is at the level of what a good horn, guitar or piano player can do; a rarity. Btw, you said "best" not "impressive"; two different things. Kenny G holding a note for several minutes is "impressive". Cheers. |
Frogman, when it comes to "words", you have always been more correct, and I'm not just saying that. The bass solo that most impressed you would have been a better choice of words, because no one can say which is the best when discussing a "subjective" subject. From here on out, it's the solo that most "impressed" anyone; that turns it into the best that person has heard. I don't think "Bang" is a good player in regard to the violin, but his music is so different, that I like it for that reason. When it comes to checking the timbre of my speakers, I want the sound of the best "classical" violin I can find. I'm not qualified to evaluate how good a musician is on his instrument from any thing that comes close to an objective point of view. I'm sure this is where the word "objective" would come into play, as regarding Wynton Marsalis's trumpet for example. Nothing in my evaluations even come close to your last paragraph. Just before responding, I was evaluating my re-recording of old records to my play-list with a new cartridge; it's like getting a new collection. I was listening to Joe Henderson's solo on "Idle Moments", and I can tell you this (something you can take to the bank according to me) When Rudy Van Gelder goes "Ga Ga" over anything; if you ain't got it, you had better run out and get it. That solo is one of the most talked about in all of jazz. |
I assumed that everyone has "Idle Moments" by Grant Green in their collections, but just in case they don't, here it is; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwaFDFP7m_E |
Fortunately others will make submissions, and comment on yours. I'm sure the comments will get better for you. And so they did! Alex commented on "Edger Meyer", and I did say any genre. That made me take another listen. Actually I thought I heard something on the first listen; a deep dark brooding. (Did anybody tell him that is not a violin, it's supposed to be plucked ha ha) If you don't mind Frogman, I would appreciate you making three more submissions; apparently I'm not prepared or qualified to evaluate "classical". |
Sure, but we're still waiting for yours or one that is more "impressive" than Pedersen playing with Pass. Btw, intrigued by your comment re your use of Classical violin to "judge the timbre of your system". Honest question: How does that work since you don't like nor listen to Classical music? How do you judge what "the best classical violin" is? |
The violin is simple; first of all I'm looking for long sustained notes to judge the timbre of my speakers. In regard to quality; I've been listening to violin since I can remember, on the radio, the movies, and I'm qualified to judge by comparison. As an example; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt2NIDtp-Ls This sounds like 'crap' on the computer, must be good violin; here I can compare violin and cello. I'm much more interested in the sound of the violin and the cello than what they're playing. Here are more good sounding violins; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iimxAJPPLY When my speakers reproduce the sound of these instruments perfectly, I know all is well in the midrange; I'm not listening for pleasure, but the quality of the timbre; especially on any long sustained parts of the program. Oscar Pettiford "Stardust" is so well played using nothing but bass; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut6LinT-DJI More coming tommorow......... |
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As you can tell I like Oscar Petiford's bass, and compositions; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5EwGijmqKc&list=RDs5EwGijmqKc#t=14 I also like the bass on this, but I'm not finished, I still have to find a standout plucked bass. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B1oIXGX0Io&index=4&list=RDs5EwGijmqKc |
Well played violins ? Apart from the fact they are not even violins, I doubt these women could get a job in any orchestra in the world . Beyond any doubt Pettiford was a great player and did a great job on "Stardust" . For a bass . "Stardust " is one one of the most melodic of all the great American standards . It’s not unknown to be played by Symphonic Orchestras and played for what it is , a true masterpiece . But if Pettifords version of it was the only version of it , it would not be a standard . |
Dave I checked out "Diana Krall", and I thought this was quite humorous; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahodHfBjIiQ&list=PL5WBcct1_UZVLJGG9NQc-5ZWt8hZOLSjE The recording quality was good and her version of "Summertime" was new and refreshing; sounds worthy of a purchase. |
o10, your comment "I've been listening to violin since I can remember, on the radio, the movies, and I'm qualified to judge by comparison." really amazed me. Considering all the electronics any music passes through to be listened to with either of those sources the tonalities can be considerably affected. For me, the only measure of tone accuracy is live, unamplified music. That way all electronics are eliminated. Unfortunately that experience becomes more and more difficult to find since most musicians and/or producers seem to feel sound amplification is necessary. And that may be a function of the push for larger concert venues, where amplification may really be needed. Considering our subject of jazz, I look for performances in smaller concerts (clubs, churches, etc.) seating hopefully less than about 200 and with all instrumentation strictly acoustic -- for true tonalities. This to calibrate my ears, I certainly attend other venues to hear specific artists or music. |
Pryso, I've come from listening on a white plastic radio to custom speakers with crossovers designed by a "crossover engineer" and I can tune the midrange. I just finished listening to those postings in the listening room, and I was more than satisfied with my speakers and those postings; so much so that I should order them. Some years ago, live was what I heard most of the time, now the listening room is as close to live as I get, but I do my best to make that as good as I can. |
Another version of "Frim Fram Sauce". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B8FR6xMFRo I have always thought this was a humorous song. |
Although I didn't find anything just right, I found the "Flight of The Cosmic Hippo". This is guaranteed to get your woofer woofin, and to check any and all resonances. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iYgf6PWYK8 |
