To my ears, whether something "swings" or not is not part of my sense of East Coast VS West Coast. In general, East Coast is simply more blues based and has a harder beat. When I was young and first getting into jazz at the end of the '50s and early '60s (yes frogman, I've got several years on you), the debate over the merits of each style was well underway. For me, Brubeck, Mulligan/Baker, and others could certainly swing. Maybe it was more the absence of that hard beat that contributed to the "cool" label?
Now I've lived on both coasts. When you get within a mile or two of the Atlantic you can smell it (the sea air I mean, not backwater bilge). However here by the Pacific I can be within a city block and not be so aware of it. I don't know if the Atlantic is briner but in general the East Coast has higher humidity and I suspect that greater moisture in the air carries the salt smells.
I bring that up because it suggests other characteristics to me. NYC is known to be loud, up front, in your face, while LA has the reputation to be laid back, relaxed, and yes, cool. Whether those are fair characterizations or not, they have also been applied to the jazz associated with each. The simplest difference may be that East Coast jazz tends to be more intense.
With all that, should I guess that Bruce Katz is from California?
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A sorry Brubeck story - at least sorry for me.
Sometime in the early 2000s Brubeck was scheduled to perform with our local symphony. A friend who knew I was a fan ask if I wanted to get tickets. I declined, saying I'd seen him in concert a few times and had only positive memories. Now at his age (late 80s at the time) I didn't want to see him and be disappointed with that last recollection.
Well the joke was on me. Talking with a few afterwards who did attend that performance, they all said it was wonderful and his energy drove the evening. Obviously I regretted missing that last great memory.
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Agree on all points, pryso. |
Now I know why Mr. Andrew Hill's "Spiral" is the newest looking record in my entire collection, although it must have been purchased in the 70's.
This music is slightly reminiscent of that "Star Wars" band in the far away galaxy beyond distant stars in another universe.
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@alexatpos
Thanks so much for the link to those photos. I really enjoyed them. Thinking Gottlieb's jazz photos must be published in a book (or two!) somewhere. Worth owning, I think. Something about black and white is, for me, way more better than color. Everyone of those told a story.
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Thanks ghost. I don’t have emojis so nothing to suggest a tongue-in-cheek following my comment about Katz being from CA. But the first tune of his you linked suggested that to me. The later one about the Poodle I couldn’t get into to pass judgement. ;^) Also, thanks alex for the link on Gottlieb. Of course Francis Wolff will come to mind for many of us for his wonderful photos. But I saw an intriguing exhibit about five years ago of The Loft Project by W. Eugene Smith. That is recommended to any of you - http://www.mopa.org/jazzloft |
Pryso, that is an exhibition that I would like very much to see... This next album came on my mind when you have mentioned west coast jazz and swinging.... Released under name of Don Bagley, the bass player, with Phil Woods,Eddie De Costa, Sal Salvador and Charlie Persip... 'Jazz on the rocks' from 1958. https://youtu.be/US9kB467GDYhttps://youtu.be/cMZ6w0DBOLs |
"Miss Minor" sounded like a soundtrack for an LA detective series. |
Alex, those are the most incredible photographs of the musicians I have come to idolize; I never knew "Lady Day" was so beautiful. I have a lot of those photographs in many of the books I have. "Jazz On The Rocks" is a must have album; it epitomizes "West Coast" jazz for me. In my circles, which was at that same time, there was never any conflict between hard bop and West Coast; that would have been at the top of the heap when it came out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFU-FJzPE80 |
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@pryso
I am sometimes too much the literalist. Missed the humor in your Bruce Katz West Coast speculation. On the other hand, given the feel of that track I posted last evening (What Might Have Been) I can see why you would have guessed that coast. It does have a sort of breezy, laid back feel to it.
Overall and even with the inclusion of "Larry the Spinning Poodle" (not the most listener friendly track on the album), Transformation is very good, I think. Quite varied with some real depth. Not superficial, glossy pop jazz. The All Music Guide says Katz earned a Masters in Jazz from the New England Conservatory and is an associate professor at the Berklee College of Music. He’s earned and learned his chops if you read his credits. |
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Ghosthouse, the "eyes" tell the story in a photograph; the guys who are looking into the eyes of "Misty Miss Christy", are lost in a trance, including that guy standing next to his girl friend, who (girl friend) is the only person there who is not captivated, but giving her guy the look that he had better get his eyes back in his head.
That must be his buddy over his right shoulder who's looking at him with a big grin on his face.
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O - that's too funny. I spent a good little bit of time looking at that exact photo. Didn't even need to look it up to check what you meant. YUP his girlfriend is looking none too pleased whilst he is looking "smitten"! Great call.
Have to say, Doris Day is quite the looker too. Only knew her from those movies with (Rock Hudson?). Never that taken with her in those. |
PS...
O - In case you haven’t discovered this yet, if you click on a photo to make it larger, then hover your cursor over an individual, a little box will appear showing their name. Not in every case but often…esp. in group photos.
One other thing worth commenting on:
Everyone wearing jacket and tie...the guys, anyway. Night out and all that, I suppose. Still, whether or not you think manner of dress is symptomatic, you don’t have to convince me about the general coarsening over the last several (5?) decades leading to our present time. No use bemoaning the fact. Gotta play the hand that’s dealt ya’...Still, would love to have a time machine to go back and visit what were really the coming of age years for my parents. |
Ghosthouse, I enjoyed going to "Red Lobster" when men wore jackets and ties there, although they were not required. That made me feel like going to a more expensive place where they were required.
Gotta play the hand that's dealt you.
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ghost, I didn't make it through all 17 pages of Gottlieb's LOC photos, but I enjoyed looking at the first part. It struck me how many shots I'd seen before without knowing who was the photographer.
A bit of trivia - Jack Crystal in that photo in the Commodore Record Shop is Billy Crystal's dad.
Also, about the transition from jackets and ties. In college in the early '60s it was common to wear a coat and tie on a date, even when attending football games. Then I dropped out of school, spent three years in the Navy, and returned to finish in 1966. The change over that brief time was astounding. From coats and ties to work shits, denim jackets, or fatigues. The "Summer of Love" and Viet Nam protests were obvious signs of great cultural changes in the mid-'60s. Music in general, and certainly jazz, changed during that time as well. Miles went electric. That may not have generated as much controversy as Dylan doing the same thing, but only because Dylan had a bigger audience. |
I wasn't quite in my teens when "Bird" died at Nica's apartment, and nothing but horrible things were said and written about her. Of course I believed them because that was all you got.
Now that I can gather all the information, and think for myself, I realize who the really horrible people were.
"Bird" never claimed that Nica was his girlfriend; she was a friend who he always treated with respect. All the jazz musicians who knew her, gave her the respect that a "Baroness" deserved.
Now, I also forgive myself for believing the things they said about Nica at that time.
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Ahem, that should have read "work shirts".
Spell-check often wants to change my intended word, so where was it this time?
o10, I had pretty positive feelings about Nica from Robin Kelley's bio, "Thelonious Monk, The Life and Times of an American Original". I expect any bad press on her at that time was simply racial bias.
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Hello pryso - I have not made it through Gottlieb’s LOC collection either! In fact, only part way into page 2 after quite a bit of time invested. It is fun though. Yes...saw the record shop photo with Jack Crystal. Another noteworthy photo is on p.2, 13th row down, left hand side. A very young Miles Davis is looking up at Howard McGhee who is playing trumpet. Someone named Brick Fleagle is on piano. Thanks to the LOC archivist for identifications. I’m not that much younger than yourself. Remember when jackets were required at dinner in the student dining hall. O - don’t know anything about Nica Rothschild. Seems like some interesting reading to catch up on. Looks like another photo where eyes are telling a story... https://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/apr/22/hannah-rothschild-nica-jazz-thelonious-monk-interview |
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Ghosthouse, there is one word you must never leave out when covering Nica, and that word is "Baroness". While she never mentioned it, her presence never left it out, and in the clubs, she was referred to as, "The Baroness".
"Aristocracy" was inculcated in her being; she was, what she was.
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Huh...okay, O.
I guess referring to her as a "classy dame" would be déclassé in the extreme. |
You certainly got that right Ghosthouse, but she did it her way; if you saw a half parked Bentley, in the worst part of town, (where there were jazz clubs) with a couple of winos lolling around on the plush leather back seats (her guard dogs), you were sure to find Nica.
She would be the lady with the British accent wearing a mink, and sporting a long cigarette holder, nodding to the hard-bop; and when the musicians announced a song dedicated to "The Baroness", you knew you had struck gold.
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O - Going back a few days to your Garbarek/Coltrane soprano sax comments, here's yet another voice. Track 2 from the album of the same name. Not one of Corea's more popular recordings, apparently (out of print, I believe). Have been spending more and more time with it since stumbling upon it. The artwork might be off putting and convey the wrong impression about the music. It does not predict the excellence of compositions or performances. Very good sonics too. Hope others enjoy it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5FNzMICmsQ&ab_channel=ChickCoreaQuartet-Topic |
Ghosthouse, I can not switch from "classic jazz" to something like fusion; it sounds discordant. If we had been listening to that earlier, I would be able to hear it.
Frogman, seems to be in that kind of bag lately, maybe he can hear it? Where is Frogman?
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String Quartet Plays Pink Floyd
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if we include Soundtrack things, I will nominate Nino Rota |
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"I'd rather be a hammer than a nail!" But not quite Simon and Garfunkle.
However I do have two 45 sets of Yma Sumac. One, "Voice of the Xtabay" includes 8 songs on four records. The other, "Inca Taqui" offers 8 songs on two discs. A pretty impressive voice. |
Pryso, I'm an Yma Sumac fan since that movie, "Secret of the Incas", and I think I have those records.
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Loved the Yma Sumac.
Thanks |
John Abercrombie.
Nooooooo! |
Without a doubt Pryso, and to think, he never learned how to read music. I have personally known a few remarkable musicians who never learned how to read music. They took that statement to mean it's not necessary to read music in order to become a musician. I have no idea what it takes to become a musician, but some of the worst musicians even have a degree in music. Personally, it's my opinion that some got it, and some don't got it; meaning it's a natural talent. Having said that, people who went to school and can read music will be more successful. Here is Errol Garner's most famous tune; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_tAU3GM9XIAnd my favorite version; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ-JgK9h_MU |
Vaya con dios Mr. Abercrombie. |
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I can say one thing for certain, we have touched on everybody's base in regard to music that can be accepted by this thread.
While that's not my cup of tea, I hope whoever is getting their boat floated responds.
Music of this nature needs herbs that puts one's hearing in resonance with the music, that's why it sounded ever so delightful once upon a time in a far away galaxy. (that's where the combination put you)
I know yall remember them mosquito machines that rode around belching out horrible smoke that was supposed to rid the neighborhood of mosquito; they should have them to ride all over the world belching out good herb smoke once a week to put a smile on everybody's face.
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Tried to find pryso's album/track of Abercrombie - Timeless on Tidal. Nope, not there. Becoming increasing frustrated with Tidal pushing sonic and social crap instead of music.
o, saw one of those mosquito trucks spewing, errr, "something" the other night around my neighborhood. Didn't detect the odor of the substance you elude to. Bummer. ;)
Dave
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dl - Here’s a link to Spotify for the album (3 Guitars) that has JA’s Timeless. It’s the last track. https://open.spotify.com/album/6G0dy3oudvTAHgdmX4XNSlHopefully Spotify’s SQ is adequate. (it's possible you will have to be logged in to Spotify for the link to work...not certain). |
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